ReadyAndAble

I accept that your experience is different than mine. That's why I'd never presume to say I know more about your recovery than you do.

I appreciate the concern, but I'll be fine.

Sapling

This is ridiculous.

ReadyAndAble

I know I'll be proven right about "never" eventually. But since that requires dying, I'm content to settle for a draw today.

TheEnd

Awesome post!

I hope I can get to that point of saying never going to drink again. Not there yet, but I'm working on it.

BackToSquareOne

I believe the mind is very powerful and what we tell ourselves most will manifest. If I make an ironclad resolution to never drink again no matter what and consider myself a non drinker I have nothing to decide because I don't drink, that's the beginning and the end of the story.

If I fill my head with the notion that I'm struggling one day at a time to stop myself from doing something that I really want to do then those ideas will manifest. It's like when you're on a diet you always think about food. Try not thinking about the word "Elephant" for the next 5 minutes. Thinking that I'm trying to quit or always in recovery with a temptation around every corner vs becomming a non drinker has a different mental effect for me anyhow.

I drank for well over 3 decades and would have walked over hot coals for alcohol at different points in my addiction. I honestly believe that the messages we fill our heads with do make a big difference. I ended my drinking career consuming as much as a half gallon of vodka a day and eating valium like skittles. I was suicidal at the end so maybe I was just done with it, who knows.

RobbyRobot

Whaaaaat??

hahaha

i dunno. Sometimes things just are what they are. No big deal.

Tippingpoint

I thought the opposite...very good discussion in my opinion.

I enjoy opening myself up to new frames of reference and understanding how different folks manage their recovery. The more I know, the stronger I can be for me.

There's nothing to fear here...this is all good stuff.

I also know for certain that I will never drink again in this lifetime and bask in the freedom of that belief daily. But that's just me.

Sapling

How about the problem doesn't exist for us...As long as we work our simple program. If I was struggling every day...I'd be drinking or dead. It's this kind of misinformation from people that don't know the program...That irks me.

Dee74

If a thread upsets you...the simple solution is to walk

We're getting about 1500 visitors a day here right now - I'm betting a lot of them could use the wit wisdom and experience of guys and gals like you all

D

Joe Nerv

I think a lot of this is semantics, and people have a lot of misconceptions about the idea of not drinking a day at a time. I don't drink. I have no intention of drinking ever again. I doubt very much that I will ever drink again. I don't struggle to not drink, as I have absolutely no desire to do it. I spend a lot of time in bars (playing music) and feel no temptation whatsoever. I don't believe a bottle of vodka is sitting on the shelf with a bandit mask on waiting for me to turn my back so it can jump me from behind. I don't actually even think about alcohol unless I'm typing away here, or at a meeting. And I plan for things to stay that way as I continue to grow in sobriety.

Wrote 4 more paragraphs just now but deleted them. Just speakin for myself.

Boleo

The spiritual awakening that removed from me the obsession to drink was so sudden, so powerful and so different from what I expected, that for me to define it, would be like me claiming to be a sorcerer. Which I am not.

a. It did not make sense.
b. It is not like like any other experience that I have ever had.
c. It works so well, it is the closest thing to a miracle that I have ever seen.

Now if it were just my experience? I would hesitate to talk about it at all. However it is described surprisingly well in the BB of AA (page 85).
I was hesitant to even talk about it in AA until I heard a few others talk about it and see that they had almost exactly the same experience.
I have only run across about 100 other people that have had this experience, but that is still a significant number. When I do run across one, I make a effort to get to know their story. In every instance so far, it was a spiritual experience, not a psychological one. If it makes no sense to you - see my signature line.

That does not mean that going back to drinking would be OK for us. We are still responsible for taking the action that attracts that HP into our lives. We just don't manage our sobriety directly as in using diligence, tenacity or assertiveness. We manage it indirectly by practicing spiritual principles that somehow work in a reciprocal way ( like throwing a boomerang to the right to hit a target on the left). One thing we all have in common is an intuitive notion that this gift is somehow contingent on us passing it on to others. Thus the famous paradox's;

"We must suffer to get well.
We must surrender to win.
We must give it away to keep it."

yeahgr8

Was just thinking...

I think anyone with any understanding of addiction would, at the very least, say that their addiction is a compulsion. By compulsion i mean that it seemingly comes out of nowhere and seemingly on the spur of the moment, just the same as the example from the OP with the guy who, "out of nowhere", fills his glass with vodka.

The whole point of recovery, and i guess life, is to have something to turn to in times of crisis or simply when life seems dull and boring. Generally people that are addicts IMO are ones who are in some way disgruntled with a part of their life either past, present or future. So let's say one of those same people decides to quit their addiction and things get better, they make a choice to empower themselves. What then happens when things go to **** again which, unless you are extremely lucky, will happen at some point in ones life.

That is when willpower won't cut it, that is when the addict used some form of escape before and unless they have made a substantial shift in the way the think, what they believe, what they value etc then eventually they will pick up whatever is the drug of choice again.

I know that there are different ways to be able to invoke that shift and most take a lot of work, ongoing work and vigilance to be able to remain sober for a lifetime.

Why do people relapse after so long, simply put because they are just taking a break between sessions, that's it...how do you know if you are taking a break between sessions....i'd love to hear an answer to that:-)

Boleo

In my area, we have something known as "Dignitaries Sympathy groups". They do things a bit differently than most groups (Tough love is one them). One of their common slogans is;

"If you think sobriety is a cross to bare? - sooner or later you will want to put that cross down."

Brownie's and the Dignitaries Sympathy Groups

Wastinglife

What the hell is this thread about anyway? haha

Zube

I think that the "spiritual awakening" and "spiritual condition" are so important to AA's because before we got sober most of us had no spiritual condition. None.

Zube

Xune

Thanks Robby. I posted on this early in my time here on SR. One day at a time doesn't work for me, but saying never does.

dox

For my recovery, that is the nitty-gritty. I believe that if I stop striving to improve my recovery I am not only coasting but I will soon be dead in the water. I need to improve my conscious contact with my higher power. I need to listen and continue to learn.

If I did the same thing for five years, I know from experience that I'd want a change. That change just might be to do the opposite.

I have been sober, one day at a time, for 8 years now and I will never drink again. Forgive me, but I don't see a paradox here; only truth.

Long may my sobriety continue. I pray that all of us will continue to grow in sobriety. But, it will only ever continue, for me, if I keep working at it. And I will keep working at it, God willing (and He is). Working at it includes listening and learning and developing the humility that allows me to admit that the way I understand something today is not the way I thought it was yesterday. In other words: I was wrong. Thank God, I am no longer afraid to accept or admit that.

I have coasted in the past. I have procrastinated on working the 12 steps. I have been complacent. I was, in fact, sober one day at a time. I still am. Only now do I realise the error of my ways. Although I attended meetings regularly, my lack of growth and development was putting my sobriety at risk. Dare I say it? Never again. Not in 34 years . . . or a hundred.

~ dox

“Contradiction is not a sign of falsity, nor the lack of contradiction a sign of truth.”
~ Blaise Pascal (French Mathematician, Philosopher and Physicist, 1623-1662)

Xune

I understand the importance of the HP in AA and that it can be anything...including an inanimate table.

I used to be spiritually connected or at least try desperately to get connected with a supernatural God, but a number of years ago, well before I was drinking dependently, I realized there is no outside spiritual force with which to connect.

Spiritually, I have only the self to keep in tune with those I love and with the world around me.

I am a soulless animal living in a natural universe.

I'm also sober and will remain this way until the day I die.

I am of the opinion that one does not need to be spiritually connected to anything in order to remain sober.

ru12

Well it takes all kinds.

For me, I choose not to drink. My sobriety has nothing to do with my spirituality and I like it that way. My spirituality is a separate issue from me poisoning myself with alcohol.

To the New Comers that may happen upon this thread: there are many ways to get sober and don't let anyone tell you different. Be careful not to accept someone else's experience for truth (including mine).

soberlicious

Uh...well...yeah, of course I think it's useful advice or I wouldn't post it. I like to share what has worked for me, the same way you like to share what has worked for you. Newcomers don't always need advice as much as they need options. Just because someone is addicted doesn't mean they are stupid. And that's why ru12's counsel here makes alot of sense:
Sapling, you said you don't post on AVRT threads because you have no experience with it. I get that. This particular section is not 12 step. This the the "alcoholism" section, yes? Correct me if I'm wrong, all of us who would like to share what works for is free to share. As far as being ridiculous, I personally find the discussion very valuable. It is exactly this kind of discussion that is the perfect place for me to practice keeping an open mind. Poking the beehive in relation to my personal truths is valuable for me. I recognize not everyone is comfortable with that though.