bbthumper

Agreed. If its working for you then it's perfect!

sugarbear1

Interesting to note that at one point he had more "time" than you, had he ever reached out to you, the newcomer?

half measures avail us nothing....

RobbyRobot

Okay. So I'm making myself sit here right now and I'm thinking about drinking a drink and getting drunk. Today. I'm sitting here and I have been sober since 1981. 31 years...

And nothing is happening. nada. zilch. zero.

Why is that?



Because I can't choose to get drink, that's why. I've lost the choice to drink. Let's say i work at it awhile longer today. What will happen? Well, i'll begin to feel and think I'm not being myself in the now. I'll begin to come to an understsanding that I'm falling out of sync with being in the now moment.

If i persist in attempting to choose to drink, my programming ie AA / AVRT will kick in and I'll undergo an awareness of me separating from my AV that suggests I want to drink. I of course don't want to drink. Ever. So I, of course, never will decide to drink, yeah? Any suggestion of my drinking, is always always of the Beast, and not of me. Thanks, AVRT!

As for AA program, I'm spiritually protected from all and any alcoholic minded thinkings, obsessions, or desires, because all such desires and thinkings have been removed from me. I'm neither hot or cold towards alcohol. I'm completely indifferent to drinking. I'd be lying to say I was thinking long on returning to drinking. The best I can do today is have a few unconnected thoughts on drinking. I can no sooner freely choose to drink then i can choose to be physically reborn from my mothers womb. It just ain't gonna happen. Thanks AA!

As for alcoholism the illness, I also have lost my power of freely choosing to drink. Alcoholism has long ago superceded any of my free choices to drink or not drink. I am powerless against my alcoholism, and I am powerless against the effects of alcohol on me after I drink it.

Does a rogue bottle of vodka sit in my future, waiting for me to succumb, lol? No, because it was never the bottle sitting wherever that did me in. It was always the bottle that was already in me, from years already gone by, when I was about 12 years old that did me in. Whatever that bottle was, that's when I got it good right thru the heart of me. The fact i kept drinking until I was 24 yrs old only means and shows just how little choice I ever really had...

Interesting thread.

I'm not of a mind today to explain myself totally. That would take alot of typing, lol. I do know that i don't much knock what others say works for them, and I don't much care what others say won't work for them if they were me. They ain't me. And I ain't them.

To sum up then, I could under pretense justify I could decide to drink again against my AVRT, against my AA program, and against my spiritual sobriety, and after successfully destroying my ideal life, I would still only accomplish the misunderstanding that I had made a free choice to return to drinking.

The guy with 34 years simply returned to drinking is all he did. Returned with all the same reasons he had to begin with. It was a long holiday, but, nothing changes if nothing changes. He simply returned to drinking...

FWIW, I have much more than just a daily reprieve from drinking - I have a whole new lifetime of reprieves, thanks very much.

bbthumper

Sounds like sanity has been restored. Great post RR.

ru12

I don't drink. Ever. Regardless of my spiritual fitness. Nothing but my poor decisions caused me to drink. Nothing but my decision not to drink keeps me sober. I do feel empathy for the fellow that drank again after 34 years especially after so many here questioned his spiritual fitness. Like anyone here has a clue to someone's inner spiritual life. He drank. He did that. And it appears that he stopped again. He did that too.

I wish him peace and I hope he continues in his sobriety.

RobbyRobot

My spiritual fitness has everything to do with my sobriety, as defined by AA BigBook and program. Not being spiritually fit does not in itself mean a return to drinking. It is simply untrue that unless one is spiritually fit, they will drink. To keep AA sobriety, one must be spiritually fit, of course, that is true. AA sobriety is more then just not drinking. There is more to lose in life, even while not drinking.

Being spritually fit is a choice which must be made freely. It cannot be forced. And it is a choice which must live moment to moment in one's lifetime of moments. Being unfit spiritually simply means the choice does not survive the entanglements of the moments of a lifetime.

Spritualism is not for the faint of heart. It is a choice of faith, and faith takes away a certain realism which takes courage to accept some unknowns are as unknowable now and forever always will be unknowable.

I've never met a person who hasn't attempted to be at least somewhat spiritual in their awareness of living their life. It's not for everybody, but for everybody there is still a choice made to either embrace it or turn from it. Choices made define us. Even not choosing is still making a choice.

Living spiritually does not, in itself, keep me from drinking. It keeps me enjoying my not drinking in so many ways on so many levels is what it does.

hamabi

That's a mind blower. It's an unusual thing for someone to drink after that long. Early sobriety and teens sure, nothing surprising there at all, and I knew a couple of alcoholics who drank after their early 20's, but I've yet to meet one make it longer and drink. This guy is a pretty rare bird.

I'm glad to hear many posters are never going to allow themselves to pour vodka in their coke after staying completely sober 34 years. No smarts at all in that kind of action, for sure.

TheEnd

This is a matter of interpretation, I have heard it explained in different ways, because it was written by man and interpreted by man. The Big Book is similar to the Bible in that if you want to find the answer you are looking for it will probably be there. In that case, why don't we bring back slavery because the Bible says it's OK. I have read the Big Book a bunch of times and each time something new jumps out at me that I didn't notice the previous time. While I like many of the principles of AA, I caution anyone about taking what they are given without questioning it. God gave me a brain to be a free thinker not to merely absord everything that is given to me.

RobbyRobot

Good solid counsel.
Way true.

Fernaceman

Placed in a position of neutrality through a spiritual awakening as the result of the 12 steps.

BackToSquareOne

I read this post and thought, Wow, there's another enlightened being out there! Someone who is on the exact same page I'm on!


Just kidding of course, we are all wired differently and whatever works best for each of us is the path with heart. As Robby said in one of his posts a while back, "We all have to dance to our own music, find our own path" (or something to that effect)

I personally don't think that spiritual fittness has much to do with addictions. I believe it's mostly biology, brain chemistry and psychology. Inasmuchas spirituality can affect a persons psyche and brain chemistry it might have some effect but I think you're way overcomplicating things by bringing spirituality into the mix. If it works for you tho, then you found your solution and who am I to argue with that, it's all good if it works!!

soberlicious

yes, and further, questioning does not necessarily mean a "tossing out" of ideas...on the contrary, questioning can lead to a deeper assimilation of ideas that one already embraces.

There are certainly some truths in the Big Book for me (I too have read it several times). I have also found personal truths in other paradigms like AVRT...and as well in Buddhism, Christianity, etc...I once rejected ideas that I now embrace and vice versa.
Despite the variables there is one constant. Alcohol is not an option.

soberlicious

Great discussion aside, I feel for the subject of the OP and certainly do hope for an end to his suffering.
xo

bbthumper

I get what you are saying. I choose to live by the priniples in the Big Book. It was penned by a man, but is based on the experience of dozens of men and women. Men and women who approved of what was written before it was published. Men and women who I relate to. The more I follow the clear and precise direction the Big Book suggests the more I find it to be true. I havent found the need to question it. Its what works for me so Im sticking to it.

SavingSelf

At only 68 days in (and currently going to AA meetings for the first time), this thread gives me a lot to think about--if I let it. Just not sure I should let it at this time.

ru12

I personally think that thinking is a good thing. I recommend it. And if you want to give AA a try, that is good too. There are many paths to sobriety.

SavingSelf

I think often. Sometimes I think too much about the "right" way to stay sober and I think thinking about THAT in and of itself, for me, isn't always productive. Alcohol for me is not an option any longer--anything that reinforces that opinion for me--is a good thing.

Not overthinking it, for me, is really important. But yes, there are many paths in sobriety, for sure.

TrixMixer

WHAT!!! after 34 years of sobriety, this guy just sees vodka next to the coke, and just for the hell of it decides to throw away 34 years and get drunk???

There has got to be more to that story, if it is even true. Don't you think?

I mean a lot of us have been sober for more than 25 years, I can only speak for myself, but "drinking alcohol" just does not cross my mind. That was 25 years ago, and for all intents and purposes that want or need just does not exist for me.

If this can happen then it got to be part of the eternal "S--t Happens" theory. At least I hope so, because this guy scares the Hell out of me.

mfanch

I've talked to people who tell the same story. They had 10-20-30+ years and yadayada. When I probe them, there has always been something going on spiritually to cause the mental drunkenness (which for me ALWAYS precedes the physical drink). To say "to hell with it" and drink is obviously insanity. When we are insane, it is because we are not spiritually fit. It's that simple. If this program didn't work, these very same people wouldn't have come back. I'm glad they do. It teaches me to not rest on my laurels and work toward growth EVERY day.

I am ALWAYS moving towards or away from a drink. The "it just happened" story is in the BB. And after the explanation as to why. It's called the mental blank spot. And then it goes on to tell us how to avoid it.

Xune

...or maybe he just chose to pour a drink.

A bad choice mind you, but a choice none the less.