I do not want to find God
Worn out by booze
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: London, England
Posts: 205
Originally Posted by 24hrsAday 
for myself i have found.. you do not have to want to find god.. he'll find you!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 812
I work a "secular" AA program, meaning I neither believe in a supernatural entity nor do I worship deities or idolize any prophets.
I do, however, have a conception of a power greater than myself--it's simply not based upon any kind of theology, magic, or superstition.
Let me say, though, that just because I believe in my conception 100% does not mean that I think my conception is the only one or that you're wrong and I'm right. I believe in belief. Even if someone has a very different conception from my own, I still believe their conception can help them.
I do, however, have a conception of a power greater than myself--it's simply not based upon any kind of theology, magic, or superstition.
Let me say, though, that just because I believe in my conception 100% does not mean that I think my conception is the only one or that you're wrong and I'm right. I believe in belief. Even if someone has a very different conception from my own, I still believe their conception can help them.
Last edited by Pagekeeper; 02-20-2009 at 08:04 AM. Reason: edit
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
I am curious to know what AA's prescribed diety is?
I was always told to find my own concept of "god". I don't have to buy into any religion, concept. I don't even buy into a god that "intervened" in my life.
I was told to look within, and there it was found, "it" is pretty well described as God.
I was always told to find my own concept of "god". I don't have to buy into any religion, concept. I don't even buy into a god that "intervened" in my life.
I was told to look within, and there it was found, "it" is pretty well described as God.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
I started a thread for newcomers and the different ways to get sober, check it out seems that the only long time sober people seem to have found that HP, i wanted to get some working examples of other programs, doing it by yourself etc.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...tay-sober.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...tay-sober.html
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by sugErspun
I am curious to know what AA's prescribed diety is?
I was always told to find my own concept of "god". I don't have to buy into any religion, concept. I don't even buy into a god that "intervened" in my life.
I was told to look within, and there it was found, "it" is pretty well described as God.
I was always told to find my own concept of "god". I don't have to buy into any religion, concept. I don't even buy into a god that "intervened" in my life.
I was told to look within, and there it was found, "it" is pretty well described as God.
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Want to find a power greater then your self?
Punch a cop in the face!!!!! Within minutes you will be finding out that the power of the Police force is far greater then you are!!!!
I have a power greater then myself, he (yes I call him because it is just what I am comfortable with) does not fit any religous mold that I am familiar with. I did not find him in the Bible, the Quoran, The Torah, or any other scripture, yet I see him in all of them!!!
Is he of any sex, color, faith? I do not know, nor do I really care. Does he have a body, is he a vapor, is he every where yet no where at the same time? I do not know, nor do I really care!
I call him/her/it God! Why? Why not? Look up the definition of God in the dictionary, he fills the bill!
Do I worship him? Nope. Do I build shrines or temples for him? Nope! Why?
Where did I find this HP that I choose to call God? Well I have discovered that he was with me the whole time I sought him and my preconcieved ideas & prejudices kept me from being able to tell that he was within me all along. In order to find him I had to be willing to set aside all prejudices and preconcieved ideas I had, open my mind to all possibilites and seek my HP, once I was able to honestly do that I found my HP within me.
BTW DK, Bill W. discusses that he found his HP the same way I did, he threw aside all of his preconcieved Ideas and prejudices and he found him!!!
Yes DK, Bill W. did not find his HP in any religion or church, he did not find his HP in any scripture, Bill found his HP within himself.
Dk you can find this in the BB if you read it setting aside all preconcieved ideas you may have and all prejudices.
What in my opinion is the biggest preconcieved idea that most people, myself included was that kept me from finding a HP?
The preconcieved idea that in order for a HP to be real that HP has to tie to some form of religion or scripture!!!!
Mine sure does not.
Oh yea DK, speak to a Hindu some time, they beleive in a great may Dieties, some even primarily honor/worship only one of the many dieties, yet all of them recognize according to thier faith that there is one diety who reigns over them all..... so are they truely not monotheistic.
Punch a cop in the face!!!!! Within minutes you will be finding out that the power of the Police force is far greater then you are!!!!
I have a power greater then myself, he (yes I call him because it is just what I am comfortable with) does not fit any religous mold that I am familiar with. I did not find him in the Bible, the Quoran, The Torah, or any other scripture, yet I see him in all of them!!!
Is he of any sex, color, faith? I do not know, nor do I really care. Does he have a body, is he a vapor, is he every where yet no where at the same time? I do not know, nor do I really care!
I call him/her/it God! Why? Why not? Look up the definition of God in the dictionary, he fills the bill!
Do I worship him? Nope. Do I build shrines or temples for him? Nope! Why?
Where did I find this HP that I choose to call God? Well I have discovered that he was with me the whole time I sought him and my preconcieved ideas & prejudices kept me from being able to tell that he was within me all along. In order to find him I had to be willing to set aside all prejudices and preconcieved ideas I had, open my mind to all possibilites and seek my HP, once I was able to honestly do that I found my HP within me.
BTW DK, Bill W. discusses that he found his HP the same way I did, he threw aside all of his preconcieved Ideas and prejudices and he found him!!!
Yes DK, Bill W. did not find his HP in any religion or church, he did not find his HP in any scripture, Bill found his HP within himself.
Dk you can find this in the BB if you read it setting aside all preconcieved ideas you may have and all prejudices.
What in my opinion is the biggest preconcieved idea that most people, myself included was that kept me from finding a HP?
The preconcieved idea that in order for a HP to be real that HP has to tie to some form of religion or scripture!!!!
Mine sure does not.
Oh yea DK, speak to a Hindu some time, they beleive in a great may Dieties, some even primarily honor/worship only one of the many dieties, yet all of them recognize according to thier faith that there is one diety who reigns over them all..... so are they truely not monotheistic.
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Taz, I just don't believe that ultimate reality, whatever that may be, possesses the characteristics suggested by the BB, including theistic, personal, loving, etc., and if the BB suggests that God need not have those attributes, then it is speaking out of both sides of it's face.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
For someone who doesn't believe in the existence or possibility of god - you sure like to debate it Paul, anytime there is a discussion that involves the topic - you are all over it. How much time do you spend researching the non-existence of an omnipotent being (which - I do not believe God to be, just so the facts are straight)? I think you are more obsessed with god than I am...really.
The book and the steps both are VERY clear on finding your own higher power or conception of what that is. Both sides of it's face? Not really. I need not go through citing it - but I must say, I don't understand the urgency which you post things for no other reason (that I can see) than to give your opinion and create conflict in threads.
I have been around AA awhile now - NEVER have I been told what to believe - rather I have been told to go out and find out if something is true or not (and I do not live in some 'special' part of the country - we have ALL types here, like most big cities). In order to do that, I had to be open to face facts or non-facts that did not make me feel good, or shattered notions I had held onto. I have total freedom in this regard - and it saved my life.
I don't care to convince anyone of god or higher power ~ but rest assured I feel comfortable sharing my experience in this arena. Believe it or not - people do recover from alcoholism through the application of the 12 steps in their life. atheists have come to believe that there's something to this whole thing (but - I am sure you are much more atheistic than they EVER were, right?).
.. please.. do not assume to know why I use G or g or god GOD higher power, ultimate truth, the great chasm, the quiet in the noise, or any other woefully inadequate words - you don't know why I do or don't use certain punctuation. There are many many capitalized words in that book...take a look. And please don't assume to know what characteristics I associate with GOD or higher power -- because you don't know. Might have to trust me on that one.
The book and the steps both are VERY clear on finding your own higher power or conception of what that is. Both sides of it's face? Not really. I need not go through citing it - but I must say, I don't understand the urgency which you post things for no other reason (that I can see) than to give your opinion and create conflict in threads.
I have been around AA awhile now - NEVER have I been told what to believe - rather I have been told to go out and find out if something is true or not (and I do not live in some 'special' part of the country - we have ALL types here, like most big cities). In order to do that, I had to be open to face facts or non-facts that did not make me feel good, or shattered notions I had held onto. I have total freedom in this regard - and it saved my life.
I don't care to convince anyone of god or higher power ~ but rest assured I feel comfortable sharing my experience in this arena. Believe it or not - people do recover from alcoholism through the application of the 12 steps in their life. atheists have come to believe that there's something to this whole thing (but - I am sure you are much more atheistic than they EVER were, right?).
.. please.. do not assume to know why I use G or g or god GOD higher power, ultimate truth, the great chasm, the quiet in the noise, or any other woefully inadequate words - you don't know why I do or don't use certain punctuation. There are many many capitalized words in that book...take a look. And please don't assume to know what characteristics I associate with GOD or higher power -- because you don't know. Might have to trust me on that one.
Last edited by sugErspun; 02-20-2009 at 10:58 AM. Reason: punctuAshun
maklay
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by doorknob
LOL, was that sarcastic, Gmak?
By all means, I do hope the best. I couldn't have done it without my faith in "my God" or HP. I tried it with just me, it just didn't work out like I planned....
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by sugErspun
For someone who doesn't believe in the existence or possibility of god
- you sure like to debate it Paul, anytime there is a discussion that involves the topic - you are all over it.
How much time do you spend researching the non-existence of an omnipotent being (which - I do not believe God to be, just so the facts are straight)?
I think you are more obsessed with god than I am...really.
The book and the steps both are VERY clear on finding your own higher power or conception of what that is. Both sides of it's face? Not really. I need not go through citing it - but I must say, I don't understand the urgency which you post things for no other reason (that I can see) than to give your opinion and create conflict in threads.
I have been around AA awhile now - NEVER have I been told what to believe - rather I have been told to go out and find out if something is true or not (and I do not live in some 'special' part of the country - we have ALL types here, like most big cities). In order to do that, I had to be open to face facts or non-facts that did not make me feel good, or shattered notions I had held onto. I have total freedom in this regard - and it saved my life.
I don't care to convince anyone of god or higher power ~ but rest assured I feel comfortable sharing my experience in this arena. Believe it or not - people do recover from alcoholism through the application of the 12 steps in their life. atheists have come to believe that there's something to this whole thing (but - I am sure you are much more atheistic than they EVER were, right?).
I don't care to convince anyone of god or higher power ~ but rest assured I feel comfortable sharing my experience in this arena. Believe it or not - people do recover from alcoholism through the application of the 12 steps in their life. atheists have come to believe that there's something to this whole thing (but - I am sure you are much more atheistic than they EVER were, right?).
My issue is not with god or AA, it is with the insistance that it is the only true path to recovery for everyone, and an individuals rejection of it is an indication of unwillingness or some other problem with that person.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
I wanted to address the original posters statement....
“But, for me I feel that the greatest challenge is doing by, ultimately, your own efforts as its only going to be ourselves that keep us sober for the rest of our lives.”
This is absolutely the bottom line for long term sobriety. It is 100% up to the individual to achieve and maintain sobriety no matter what method they use to obtain it.
The common denominator in any program, including the one I use, is no drinking....EVER. This in my opinion, if followed without deviation will be 100% effective.
For along time I had stopped believing in myself...the despair and feelings of hopelessness were overwhelming...but they were just feelings not facts...the fact was that I had always held the keys to my own cell. Once I had sometime away from alcohol things became so much clearer...I looked back in horror at my behavior and so wanted to blame it on a disease...to claim powerlessness...but I couldn’t...I knew better. I got myself in this mess damn sure I would be the one to get myself out. If you believe in God or not is totally irrelevant to the matter at hand and anyone who tells you differently is misguided.
There are as many paths to sobriety as there are people to walk them.
Walk yours with the knowledge that the destination is the same.
“But, for me I feel that the greatest challenge is doing by, ultimately, your own efforts as its only going to be ourselves that keep us sober for the rest of our lives.”
This is absolutely the bottom line for long term sobriety. It is 100% up to the individual to achieve and maintain sobriety no matter what method they use to obtain it.
The common denominator in any program, including the one I use, is no drinking....EVER. This in my opinion, if followed without deviation will be 100% effective.
For along time I had stopped believing in myself...the despair and feelings of hopelessness were overwhelming...but they were just feelings not facts...the fact was that I had always held the keys to my own cell. Once I had sometime away from alcohol things became so much clearer...I looked back in horror at my behavior and so wanted to blame it on a disease...to claim powerlessness...but I couldn’t...I knew better. I got myself in this mess damn sure I would be the one to get myself out. If you believe in God or not is totally irrelevant to the matter at hand and anyone who tells you differently is misguided.
There are as many paths to sobriety as there are people to walk them.
Walk yours with the knowledge that the destination is the same.
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by bugsworth
If you believe in God or not is totally irrelevant to the matter at hand and anyone who tells you differently is misguided.
There are as many paths to sobriety as there are people to walk them.
Walk yours with the knowledge that the destination is the same.
Walk yours with the knowledge that the destination is the same.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
I hear you DK...this debate regarding higher powers is IMO pure nonsense and takes the focus off of our primary purpose...to help people achieve sobriety. Maybe we should try telling people the truth...put on you big boy and big girl pants and take responsibility for your own life. Is it hard? Damn straight it is...can you do it? That's up to you. End of story.
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