Hopeful528

I'm back in AA, and I've surrendered to my higher power and to seriously working the program.
When I start to feel better and get further away from my last drunk, I can sometimes start to have irrational addictive voice thoughts that I'm not a drunk or an alcoholic.
and I'm wondering if you could offer any advice on staying in step 1 and step 2 and how to never go back to denial.
Thanks

Grungehead

My experience on the best way to "stay" in step 1 and 2 is to work all 12 steps with a sponsor. I spent over 20 years doing the "3 step waltz" (1-2-3-drink, 1-2-3-drink). It wasn't until I finally got a sponsor and committed to doing all 12 steps that steps 1, 2 and 3 became more than a "thought experiment". It was taking action in steps 4-9 and having the obsession for alcohol lift and my life become manageable again to understand just how powerless I was over alcohol and how unmanageable my life had become. It was having my sanity return that helped me understand just how insane I was when it came to alcohol.

tomsteve

dont think i could add much to what grungehead said. to recover from the hopless state of mind and body, to recover we have to work ALL of the steps, then practice the principles in all of our affairs.

in short, my advise is dont stay in step one and 2. the 2 step boogie will get ya drunk every time.

tomsteve

not going to say where this is in the big book, but:

And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone-even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality—safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.

Dave42001

Wishing you the best.. Stay close to the Club, get in the middle of the herd and ask for help.. hang out with your sober buds, go to a lot of meetings, help the new guy!! It will happen. Keep working it!!!!

DG

August252015

Acceptance.

The ongoing, daily, consistent practice of acceptance (see, pp 84-88 and 417-418 in particular) as applied to everything and everyone (including myself) in life.

For me, this one word and concept carries through all the steps and has to be primary in my everyday life.

Grungehead

The 10th step promises is the most powerful passage in the Big Book for me personally. I read the BB from cover to cover more than once without working the steps and these promises seemed nice enough, but I just didn't get how important they really were until I worked the steps and they came true for me.

The problem (step 1) has been removed and sanity has returned (step 2). I could now face life on life's terms (both good and bad) without alcohol as long as I keep in fit spiritual condition (step 3). So my tips for steps 1 and 2 are doing steps 3-9. By the time I got to step 10 it all made sense. Steps 10-12 help me maintain and grow my sobriety and spiritual relationship with my HP.

tomsteve

grungehead, something i found.....hhhmmmm....i dont want to say ironic, but something... is the paragraph right after those promises. pretty wild how that is right after telling us the problem is removed.

Grungehead

Yeah that paragraph kind of puts some stipulations on those promises. I liken it to needing to take a medication to keep an illness in remission or under control. The problem can be that the medication makes you feel better and then you may think you no longer need the medication. The paragraph following the promises let's the reader know in no uncertain terms that isn't the case.

Bullwinkle1944

The purpose of the 12 steps is to get from step 1 to step 2 and 3. The second and third steps are one step and is not taken as is the other steps, it’s the destination, by taking steps 4 through 9, 10 is a continuum.
Hopeful528 writes>>>I'm wondering if you could offer any advice on staying in step 1 and step 2 and how to never go back to denial.
Thanks<<<

I’m as sick as my secrets 4th and 5th steps and by the 9th step, going into the 10th I was restored to sanity. Page 84, from the text Alcoholics Anonymous, “And we cease fighting anything or anyone even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned”.

I have the Big Book (AA Text) comes alive on tape, by Joe and Charlie and they will tell you same as I have.

Hopeful528

Thanks for the responses. I have been reading from the bb this week and following the daily readings.
My sponsor wants me to stay on step 1 for a long time. She wants me to drill in that I am powerless over alcohol and that my life has become unmanageable.
I had completed step 3 when I relapsed in November, and have had periods of sobriety without aa since then but have just returned last Saturday to the program.

Hopeful528

What you are saying about the steps makes sense. I will read and talk to my sponsor about it as I remember a lot of things were occurring, so I don't know the exact trigger that caused me to pick up but I do recall feeling like it made me stuck in the "problem" and wanting to go through the steps right away, because it didn't feel good dwelling on everything that was negative.
I also know I have an alcoholic brain that it seemed like just yesterday the denial thoughts popped up after feeling surrendered all week and 100 percent certain I was an alcoholic.

Hopeful528

I've committed to going to a meeting every day, and I will continue to read all of the literature, I make myself go even if I'm so anxious too like tonight.
I also make sure I text or call at least 3 aa people a day, and text or talk to my sponsor everyday.
I am 100 % aware that my thoughts are sick and what got me here so I will hang on to that until I can stay on the complete undoubted fact that I am powerless over alcohol and my life is unmanageable.
It just scares me and I want to do everything I can to succeed this time and not go back to that ****.
Thanks for listening and for directing me to different areas in the book.

Hopeful528

I guess it doen't matter if my thoughts go astray from time to time in the fact of whether I'm a full blown alcoholic.
The fact is my life has become unmanageable, and I somehow along the way developed really bad coping and alcohol abuse habits. And I managed to get rid of it in my daily life but I can't get it out for good on my own.
It is not normal to get smashed before major important milestones and sabatoge yourself or get completely wasted just because its been too long and I feel like I deserve too.
So I need to learn new ways and I have tried and failed on my own.
We aren't born with a bottle of wine in our hands and it's not normal behavior.

Grungehead

Wishing you the bet Hopeful528. I'm not one to second guess your sponsor as she knows you better than me. But the philosophy of the sponsor that ended up taking me through all 12 steps was to let the sponsee set the pace on working the steps. He said he didn't know how long anyone had before the obsession returned.

My original sponsor wanted me to work one step a month. I'm not sure exactly why he picked that time frame. It was probably because that's what his sponsor did with him and it worked. I didn't feel like I had that much time so I decided to look for another sponsor.

My new sponsor stated that we would start the next step as soon as we finished the last one. It ended up taking us about a month, and 2 weeks of that time was working on my 4th step. Granted we zoomed through the first 3 steps in one day as he could tell I had a good grasp of them (thanks to my original sponsor).

Also, as soon as I had made an earnest start on my 9th step amends we moved on to step 10. It took the better part of a year to do most of my amends, and after 5+ years I still have a few that have not been done due to circumstances beyond my control (but I remain willing to do them if those circumstances change).

I guess most sponsors teach their sponsees the way that they learned them and I have done the same. I do like the idea of letting the sponsee set the pace as long as 1) they have a good grasp of the step before moving to the next one, and 2) they are not procrastinating. I was in pretty bad shape when I came back to AA this time and I was looking for relief. The last thing I wanted to do was delay finding it.

Bullwinkle1944

Hopeful528 writes>>>My sponsor wants me to stay on step 1 for a long time. She wants me to drill in that I am powerless over alcohol and that my life has become unmanageable.<<<

I was a multi relapse, but finally when I left steps 1, 2 and 3 and took steps 4 through 9, I didn’t relapse again and when I finished 9, I was restored to sanity. Coming out of step 9, it reads on page 84, in the AA text “We have ceased fight anything or anyone-even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have retunred”. and I’m in my 4th decade without a drink.

When I lead / chair meetings the topic is usually step 2 and I read it from the 12 X 12 not the Big book (AA Text), because I feel that the step 2 in 12x12 is more in depth than the AA text. I’m para phrasing, the sponsor says to the newcomer, I know how you feel; about all this God stuff, it can be confusing, what I did to get to step 2 is get on with the rest the program which is steps 4 through 9, step 10 is the continuum. The actual dialoged is on page 27 of the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions.

Step 1 is in two parts, We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives has become unmanageable. notice the dash, this is what's called an em-dash, which separates this sentence into 2 parts. The more important of these 2 thoughts is the 2nd half that our lives has become unmanageable, because a moral inventory / self-examination is NOT taken on alcoholism, it's taken on behavior that made life unmanageable. Alcoholism isn't a moral issue, behavior is.

For me it's sad that many AA members that are sponsors don't know the 12 Step dynamics and it has the high potential to contribute to relapse. 4 through 9 however has the high potential in contributing to recovery by clearing away the wreckage of ones past, which is riddled with shame and guilt.

aasharon90

What may help as well is to find and
visit your AA Central Office where
you live where they may have work
books on each step and other recovery
information to read.

Or search online like Hazelden or Ebay
where there are lots of recovery information
to help you work thru the steps.

For me, I armed myself with all the
information and books possible, take
each one to my step meetings, big
book studies, a highlighter, pencil
or pen to underline and make notes
of importance as you listen, learn,
absorb and apply information to help
you take those steps one at a time.

Work the steps then live by them
and incorporate them in your everyday
life to achieve the gifts of the Promises
as written for in the Big Book of AA.

Tommyh

Hopeful,one thing about step one
when I was new,I got up every morning and one thing I did was sit quietly and remember the most embarrassing,humiliating times I had drunk.I trained my mind to remember "the last drunk" as old timers say.(as best I could)
did I want to go back there?
heck no
I used those horrible memories to push me into the other steps
and I still use this today.So,as your sponsor says,think on your bad times drinking,not the good times.If the thought of not going to meetings or a drink pops up,try to reflect where it may take you.....back to the bitter past.You may even want to write a few of those memories on a index card and keep it handy and read it several times daily for now.If we don`t,the mental part of our alcoholism can gloss over that stuff and try to make taking a drink the answer to your troubles.Remember the suffering as best you can for as long as you can,it will help you stay in the other steps
don`t forget where we came from

step one,powerless over alcohol means I will drink again.No if`s,and`s or but`s about it

life is unmanageable means I can`t stay sober nor can I manage the thoughts that come before a drink and we will drink again.(hence the word insanity)

we ought to use every tool at our disposal since alcoholism is a progressive,fatal illness.

I suggest you stick with your f2f sponsor

if we forget the past,we will relive it untill we die

best wishes to you

Hopeful528

Thanks, everyone. I appreciate the help.

August252015

Around here, I've heard it called the step 3 boogie, where you keep from moving on into 4. Either way, progress is critical; there's not one set speed to do it at but it has to keep going if you want to develop a vibrant program.

One other note- I got my first sponsor at 97 days. I had "done" 1-3 on my own, but we did them again, and read those first 164pg of the BB that most folks I know who sponsor do use as a starting point for work with the sponsee. As I was ready to do 4 and did use her assistance and instructions for it (I also used one set of worksheets you can find online) I realized I was not comfortable doing 4 and 5 with her, or forward. I broke up with her and approached a woman I'd been listening to and learning from in my home group and she is still my sponsor at 27+ mo.