Abstinence is the leading cause of relapse
where the light is
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,763
Originally Posted by SelfSeeking 
I feel like no one understands how desperate I feel...
... have you ever had the feeling like you're screaming and no one can hear you? This has got to stop!
... have you ever had the feeling like you're screaming and no one can hear you? This has got to stop!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
From The Bridge of Reason to The Shore of Faith
Originally Posted by SelfSeeking
Thank you. I feel like no one understands how desperate I feel. I wasn't bs'ing when I came to AA, admitting to myself that my life is not manageable... that the way things were was intolerable... the powerlessness. I'm in the middle of my last year of graduate school and things are falling apart, even though I'm not drinking. I'm sure they'd be a lot worse if I was, but I'm in crisis mode, I don't have time to screw around, and my emotional state is... not good? I was a solitary drinker for the most part. I worked really hard to maintain appearances. Maybe I'm too good at it.
Sorry for highjacking the thread. Just.. have you ever had the feeling like you're screaming and no one can hear you? This has got to stop!
Sorry for highjacking the thread. Just.. have you ever had the feeling like you're screaming and no one can hear you? This has got to stop!
Left in that condition, seperated from the sunlight of the spirit, there is no choice but to drink. The steps are about removing what seperates an alcoholic from the sunlight of the spirit. In the sunlight of the spirit, in a recovered state, there is no choice to drink, because the problem has been removed.
You are at the turning point, the jumping off place. The place that alcoholics get to sober, not drunk. The place where, in my experience, I can't get drunk and I can't sober, where I'm terrified to be alone and terrified to be in a crowd. I don't fit in in AA and I don't fit in at the bar. I feel like I'm outside looking in and don't belong anywhere. I feel seperated and apart from. The more I think about not drinking, the more I want to drink. My mind races so fast that there is no space between the thoughts. I can't sleep. I can't stand being where I'm at, so I fill my time with activity and distractions. I buy the lie that AA meetings are for me to dump my stuff and find someone who is worse off than me so that I can feel better. So I go to lots of meetings. People annoy me. I'm thin-skinned. I'm full of resentment, remorse, and self-pity. Maybe I look good on the outside, but inside I feel useless. Some days I feel really good, but kind of empty. I indulge in harmful, meaningless sex and use others for my own gain. I can't stand the silence, it's too loud. Eventually I will either have to drink or blow my head off just to shut it up. I could on, but you get the picture.
This was me six months away from a drink. Worse, not better. It was at this point that I asked for help in Alcoholics Anonymous. I gave up. I stepped from bridge to shore. The next day I saw a readerboard at a church. It said "When you reach your wits' end, that is where you will find God." I haven't had to fight taking a drink from that day to now.
Jim
Big Book references from Alcoholics Anonymous, First Edition
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
Originally Posted by bballdad
the " no matter what " can also mean life
please define a human being,sick or not as being "pretty worthless"
please define a human being,sick or not as being "pretty worthless"
As far as the 'no matter what' - if that was an option for an alcoholic (AA's definition of an alcoholic), I am sure it would have popped up SOMEWHERE in the literature. I still can't find where that advice comes from....but there it is. I was at an open meeting that I had never been to the other night, and someone said it. It baffles me every time. If I could just not drink no matter what- what is my problem? Certainly isn't alcohol - because being able to not drink no matter what implies that I have power over alcohol.
Thankfully, I was given a very clear message.
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,903
"pretty worthless to others" was what I actually posted.
how about explaining that a little more since you failed to do so earlier so I can get a clearer picture of what you was trying to say.
Looks pretty arrogant to me.Since when do we judge others worth or worth lessness?I was informed that was God`s job,not ours.I was also informed we all are God`s kids,so who are we to call a sick alcoholic worthless to others?Does others include God?Get off your high horse
how about explaining that a little more since you failed to do so earlier so I can get a clearer picture of what you was trying to say.
Looks pretty arrogant to me.Since when do we judge others worth or worth lessness?I was informed that was God`s job,not ours.I was also informed we all are God`s kids,so who are we to call a sick alcoholic worthless to others?Does others include God?Get off your high horse
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Believe me Tommy, I've written plenty of inventory about some of the B.S. that gets flung around on SR.
However, this time I have nothing to write about. I'm not the one getting contentious, calling some one arrogant, and telling them to get off a high horse for a post that is dead on in-line with the book.
And I won't have to worry about not drinking no matter what today because it is out of my hands. That's God's deal. Have a good day Tommy.
Jim
However, this time I have nothing to write about. I'm not the one getting contentious, calling some one arrogant, and telling them to get off a high horse for a post that is dead on in-line with the book.
And I won't have to worry about not drinking no matter what today because it is out of my hands. That's God's deal. Have a good day Tommy.
Jim
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Originally Posted by bballdad
actually Jim, it is off the beam and that is not in my big book.When a alcoholic talks like that,there is trouble brewing somewhere.
Could you clarify that please? I know the don't drink no matter what is off the beam, and having a resentment or fighting is off the beam. I'm not sure what you are getting at.
Thanks,
Jim
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,903
Jim
for me to view a sick alcoholic<inside or outside of AA> as worthless<having no value> is not in my big book of Alcoholics Anonymous,it may be in yours but it`s not in mine.
Some people cannot get sober,they seem to have been born that way,so they are just worthless,according to Andy..glad it is just his opinion,because thats all it is.It also looks like a insult to the sick alcoholic too.
They are worth a heck of a lot to some of us.Now I see what value you guys put on human life.
Also,I`m glad he or anyone else are not representing AA as a whole with that attitude.
No wonder people run from AA like that,can`t say as I blame them.
you and Andy can go tell post 18 she is worthless
Jim,I`m probably not going to post on this thread anymore..it serves no good purpose.
for me to view a sick alcoholic<inside or outside of AA> as worthless<having no value> is not in my big book of Alcoholics Anonymous,it may be in yours but it`s not in mine.
Some people cannot get sober,they seem to have been born that way,so they are just worthless,according to Andy..glad it is just his opinion,because thats all it is.It also looks like a insult to the sick alcoholic too.
They are worth a heck of a lot to some of us.Now I see what value you guys put on human life.
Also,I`m glad he or anyone else are not representing AA as a whole with that attitude.
No wonder people run from AA like that,can`t say as I blame them.
you and Andy can go tell post 18 she is worthless
Jim,I`m probably not going to post on this thread anymore..it serves no good purpose.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
With all due respect, I think you have it wrong Tommy.
You know as well as I do that a self-centered, spiritually sick human being is useless to themselves or anyone else for that matter. Useless, not worthless.
As for your estimate of what value I put on human life, you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about. I won't go into it any further, as it would look like I'm tooting my own horn. If I thought the poster of post #18 was worthless, I would not have taken the time to post my own experience with what it feels like to live in the pain of being seperate and to let them know that I KNOW the pain of being useless and knowing it.
A "Don't drink no matter what" abstinent, untreated alcoholic is uselss in AA as far as having anything to offer the still drinking or suffering alcoholic. That is what this whole thread is about.
By the way, it is Adam, not Andy. When you write inventory you can put mine and Adam's names on the first column.
Regards,
Jim
You know as well as I do that a self-centered, spiritually sick human being is useless to themselves or anyone else for that matter. Useless, not worthless.
As for your estimate of what value I put on human life, you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about. I won't go into it any further, as it would look like I'm tooting my own horn. If I thought the poster of post #18 was worthless, I would not have taken the time to post my own experience with what it feels like to live in the pain of being seperate and to let them know that I KNOW the pain of being useless and knowing it.
A "Don't drink no matter what" abstinent, untreated alcoholic is uselss in AA as far as having anything to offer the still drinking or suffering alcoholic. That is what this whole thread is about.
By the way, it is Adam, not Andy. When you write inventory you can put mine and Adam's names on the first column.
Regards,
Jim
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
I would like to attempt to clarify something.
I never said or tried to say that anyone was worthless, nor do I feel that way about ANYONE. How helpful was Bob to Bill the day the met? If part of recovery is helping others - there need to be others to help.
I was referring to something that happens on the inside and how it relates (in my eyes) to the bedevilments on page 52. I have times in my life where I felt worthless to others - it's a terrible feeling, perhaps worse than the feeling of active alcoholism (drinking)...maybe they are the same.
I do not think anyone is worthless, not did I intend to make it seem to be the case. It gets me down to think that this is how I am viewed by others.
~Adam
I never said or tried to say that anyone was worthless, nor do I feel that way about ANYONE. How helpful was Bob to Bill the day the met? If part of recovery is helping others - there need to be others to help.
I was referring to something that happens on the inside and how it relates (in my eyes) to the bedevilments on page 52. I have times in my life where I felt worthless to others - it's a terrible feeling, perhaps worse than the feeling of active alcoholism (drinking)...maybe they are the same.
I do not think anyone is worthless, not did I intend to make it seem to be the case. It gets me down to think that this is how I am viewed by others.
~Adam
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,903
You know as well as I do that a self-centered, spiritually sick human being is useless to themselves or anyone else for that matter.
I disagree Jim
just because a person has a illness don`t always mean they are useless.No,i will not be writing any inventory because you and I have different ideas as to the worth of someone.I have every right to say something when people make statements calling sick alcoholics worthless.
I disagree Jim
just because a person has a illness don`t always mean they are useless.No,i will not be writing any inventory because you and I have different ideas as to the worth of someone.I have every right to say something when people make statements calling sick alcoholics worthless.
where the light is
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,763
Originally Posted by sugErspun
I would like to attempt to clarify something.
I never said or tried to say that anyone was worthless, nor do I feel that way about ANYONE. How helpful was Bob to Bill the day the met? If part of recovery is helping others - there need to be others to help.
I was referring to something that happens on the inside and how it relates (in my eyes) to the bedevilments on page 52. I have times in my life where I felt worthless to others - it's a terrible feeling, perhaps worse than the feeling of active alcoholism (drinking)...maybe they are the same.
I do not think anyone is worthless, not did I intend to make it seem to be the case. It gets me down to think that this is how I am viewed by others.
~Adam
I never said or tried to say that anyone was worthless, nor do I feel that way about ANYONE. How helpful was Bob to Bill the day the met? If part of recovery is helping others - there need to be others to help.
I was referring to something that happens on the inside and how it relates (in my eyes) to the bedevilments on page 52. I have times in my life where I felt worthless to others - it's a terrible feeling, perhaps worse than the feeling of active alcoholism (drinking)...maybe they are the same.
I do not think anyone is worthless, not did I intend to make it seem to be the case. It gets me down to think that this is how I am viewed by others.
~Adam
Regardless, please know that I do make it a point to read your posts. You have helped this alcoholic - thank you. I view you as a man who has worked very hard to get to where you are, is passionate about AA & recovery, and is a straight-shooter. I certainly do not view you as a person who thinks that anyone is worthless.
Don
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
