Abstinence is the leading cause of relapse
Laozi Old Man
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Abstinence is the leading cause of relapse
Abstinence is the leading cause of relapse. Sounds kind of comical when heard for the first time. Almost like a contradiction of terms. In theory, abstinence is supposed to PREVENT relapse. How can it be RESPONSIBLE for relapse?
It turns out that the recovery process cannot be done in one simple phase. Not unlike getting a car or truck rolling along it takes more than one gear. Abstinence is comparable to first gear in a motor vehicle. It is the best and sometimes the only way to get a massive vehicle in motion but not unlike a car going down the highway, being stuck in first gear is destructive. At some point the cars engine will blow apart from too much stress.
Rehab programs seldom talk about this matter because it is simply not their job to talk about long-term recovery strategies. Their goal is typically one of getting the subject to reach some short-term goal that can be achieved and measured within a short time frame,
Typically 30 or 90.
So what is the equivalent of second gear in the recovery process? Principles to live by. Specifically rules to live by that can be used to day in and day out without overloading ones psychic engine. Some of these principles can be summed up in simple to grasp slogans like; one-day-at-a-time, easy-does-it and first-things-first. These are more or less psychological tricks and tips that can be used in times of stress.
There is more to recovery however than just psychology. There is an even higher set of principles that can be viewed as the equivalent of over-drive in an automobile. That is spiritual instead of psychological principles.
Spiritual principles are harder to learn than psychological principles because some of them are hard to grasp at first. In fact, many of them are downright incomprehensible. That is why it is best to leave them for last in the learning process.
The fundamental spiritual principles are not too bad to deal with like honesty, open-mindedness and willingness but some of the deeper principles like humility and serenity are beyond the grasp of those new to the recovery process.
Perhaps thee most esoteric spiritual principle to grasp is true humility. A word often confused with humiliation. The easiest way to distinguish between the to is to remember that humiliation leads to fear, guilt and shame where humility leads to insight into new truth.
All those who are suffering from an addiction have a serious lack of insight. Humility, more than any other tool, can circumvent this problem and provide new and lasting paths to the truth about themselves, their disease and their potential to change.
Think of spiritual principles as the over-drive that allows to the auto to cruise for countless hours of stress-free progress on the life-long journey to recovery.
It turns out that the recovery process cannot be done in one simple phase. Not unlike getting a car or truck rolling along it takes more than one gear. Abstinence is comparable to first gear in a motor vehicle. It is the best and sometimes the only way to get a massive vehicle in motion but not unlike a car going down the highway, being stuck in first gear is destructive. At some point the cars engine will blow apart from too much stress.
Rehab programs seldom talk about this matter because it is simply not their job to talk about long-term recovery strategies. Their goal is typically one of getting the subject to reach some short-term goal that can be achieved and measured within a short time frame,
Typically 30 or 90.
So what is the equivalent of second gear in the recovery process? Principles to live by. Specifically rules to live by that can be used to day in and day out without overloading ones psychic engine. Some of these principles can be summed up in simple to grasp slogans like; one-day-at-a-time, easy-does-it and first-things-first. These are more or less psychological tricks and tips that can be used in times of stress.
There is more to recovery however than just psychology. There is an even higher set of principles that can be viewed as the equivalent of over-drive in an automobile. That is spiritual instead of psychological principles.
Spiritual principles are harder to learn than psychological principles because some of them are hard to grasp at first. In fact, many of them are downright incomprehensible. That is why it is best to leave them for last in the learning process.
The fundamental spiritual principles are not too bad to deal with like honesty, open-mindedness and willingness but some of the deeper principles like humility and serenity are beyond the grasp of those new to the recovery process.
Perhaps thee most esoteric spiritual principle to grasp is true humility. A word often confused with humiliation. The easiest way to distinguish between the to is to remember that humiliation leads to fear, guilt and shame where humility leads to insight into new truth.
All those who are suffering from an addiction have a serious lack of insight. Humility, more than any other tool, can circumvent this problem and provide new and lasting paths to the truth about themselves, their disease and their potential to change.
Think of spiritual principles as the over-drive that allows to the auto to cruise for countless hours of stress-free progress on the life-long journey to recovery.
God's Kid
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,820
I was think this kinda thing this morning.
Most people I met or have met in AA who only have a 'drinking problem', on the whole, seem to keep drinking.
People who are opened to the possibilty their drinking is only a symptom of a great problem, and treat it as such, tend to get and stay sober.
Most people I met or have met in AA who only have a 'drinking problem', on the whole, seem to keep drinking.
People who are opened to the possibilty their drinking is only a symptom of a great problem, and treat it as such, tend to get and stay sober.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Humility for me in the context of AA
means that I strive to stay teachable.
Interesting topic...wondered if your locale has
anything to do with your analogy Boleo
Thanks!
means that I strive to stay teachable.
Interesting topic...wondered if your locale has
anything to do with your analogy Boleo
Thanks!
Last edited by CarolD; 09-11-2008 at 11:05 PM. Reason: Typo
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
Nice post Boleo.
Do you think things like true humility and serenity can be acheived through the thought process? -OR- Is there really something more going on and these things just 'come about' gradually?
When I was a couple weeks sober - I REALLY wanted this 'spiritual experience' that I read about and hear others share about...it seemed tangible. My sponsor said to me "It's completely possible that your desire to have such an experience is the very thing preventing it." My world changed that day, not so much because of the words he said, but more of an eye opening that had long been closed. I saw myself different, just for a second.
Yea, I came to AA with a drinking problem, then it was a not-drinking problem, then I was just totally confused with it all. Somewhere along the lines I just gave up - and everything changed.
thanks for the post. Good stuff.
Do you think things like true humility and serenity can be acheived through the thought process? -OR- Is there really something more going on and these things just 'come about' gradually?
When I was a couple weeks sober - I REALLY wanted this 'spiritual experience' that I read about and hear others share about...it seemed tangible. My sponsor said to me "It's completely possible that your desire to have such an experience is the very thing preventing it." My world changed that day, not so much because of the words he said, but more of an eye opening that had long been closed. I saw myself different, just for a second.
Yea, I came to AA with a drinking problem, then it was a not-drinking problem, then I was just totally confused with it all. Somewhere along the lines I just gave up - and everything changed.
thanks for the post. Good stuff.
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Boleo that was an awesome post.
For me recovery has been like a journey out of hell on a path without an end. The farther I get down that path, the more baggage I shed, the lighter my burden, the more aware I become of hidden baggage I was unable to see because it was covered up with the largest bags. I continue down that path working on ridding myself of the new found baggage I had all along but could not see before shedding the other baggage.
For me I find the journey far easier because I am not alone on that path, I started right off following many people who had walked that path before me, many people took me by the hand when I first started down that path to help me not lose my way, they helped me along the way to find my HP who todays I follow down that path hand in hand along with many others. Today as I walk down that path with my HP I take the hand of others just starting thier own journey down that path, I help them to find thier own HP to join us all in our journey.
All along the side of this path I see baggage dropped on the side of it and the people who have dropped that baggage seem to have a new spring to thier step and a smile on thier faces. along the way I am given tools.... spiritual tools. These tools aide me in ridding myself of even more baggage along the way and to see more baggage that I could not see before. These tools also help me in showing others the way along the path.
The path is endless, the trek is for the most part pleasant, but on occasions there are boulders in the path, but with the help of my HP, my tools, and those walking the path with me, WE are able to move the boulders and continue on our journey.
Some let go of their HP's hand and the hands of others and they stray off the path and many are never seen again, but some do find thier way back to the path.
I have only begun to walk this path, along it I do find stretches of serenity, but then the baggage I still carry weighs me down and I have to use my HP, my tools and the help of others to find that stretch of serenity again. One thing seems to mainly trip me up in my journey down this path.... my own ego and pride..... this is something I struggle with, it is the largest piece of baggage I carry, I can whittle it down a small pice at a time, and then I will for some unknown reason pick up a piece of pride and ego and throw it in the bag and I struggle again.
I have a long way to go, but I am not alone, WE walk the path together with our HP's helping each other along the way.
I love you guys, thanks for helping me in my journey by holding my hand when I need it held.
For me recovery has been like a journey out of hell on a path without an end. The farther I get down that path, the more baggage I shed, the lighter my burden, the more aware I become of hidden baggage I was unable to see because it was covered up with the largest bags. I continue down that path working on ridding myself of the new found baggage I had all along but could not see before shedding the other baggage.
For me I find the journey far easier because I am not alone on that path, I started right off following many people who had walked that path before me, many people took me by the hand when I first started down that path to help me not lose my way, they helped me along the way to find my HP who todays I follow down that path hand in hand along with many others. Today as I walk down that path with my HP I take the hand of others just starting thier own journey down that path, I help them to find thier own HP to join us all in our journey.
All along the side of this path I see baggage dropped on the side of it and the people who have dropped that baggage seem to have a new spring to thier step and a smile on thier faces. along the way I am given tools.... spiritual tools. These tools aide me in ridding myself of even more baggage along the way and to see more baggage that I could not see before. These tools also help me in showing others the way along the path.
The path is endless, the trek is for the most part pleasant, but on occasions there are boulders in the path, but with the help of my HP, my tools, and those walking the path with me, WE are able to move the boulders and continue on our journey.
Some let go of their HP's hand and the hands of others and they stray off the path and many are never seen again, but some do find thier way back to the path.
I have only begun to walk this path, along it I do find stretches of serenity, but then the baggage I still carry weighs me down and I have to use my HP, my tools and the help of others to find that stretch of serenity again. One thing seems to mainly trip me up in my journey down this path.... my own ego and pride..... this is something I struggle with, it is the largest piece of baggage I carry, I can whittle it down a small pice at a time, and then I will for some unknown reason pick up a piece of pride and ego and throw it in the bag and I struggle again.
I have a long way to go, but I am not alone, WE walk the path together with our HP's helping each other along the way.
I love you guys, thanks for helping me in my journey by holding my hand when I need it held.
Laozi Old Man
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by sugErspun 
Do you think things like true humility and serenity can be acheived through the thought process? -OR- Is there really something more going on and these things just 'come about' gradually?
Serenity is the fruit of of practicing a spiritual way of life (such as prayer & meditation). It can not be achieved directly nor is it some form of positive thinking. Positive thinking built on will-power alone will collapse like a castle built on sand.
Faith without works is dead.
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: brooklyn, new york
Posts: 1,639
duh, good buddy
what happens if cross country 18 wheeler trucker is an alcoholic
as in,
what,
32 gears
can you simplify your answer to the a 32 gear abstinence?
oh,
how reluctant alcoholic astronaut?
i'm sure abstinence world be the e in e=mc2
with spirituality the speed of light squared
abd
the mass would be the group
or
is that something on sunday mornings?
please explain
i had a perfect program till i read you thread
now i'm confused
best
frankie
what happens if cross country 18 wheeler trucker is an alcoholic
as in,
what,
32 gears
can you simplify your answer to the a 32 gear abstinence?
oh,
how reluctant alcoholic astronaut?
i'm sure abstinence world be the e in e=mc2
with spirituality the speed of light squared
abd
the mass would be the group
or
is that something on sunday mornings?
please explain
i had a perfect program till i read you thread
now i'm confused
best
frankie
Adjusting my Sails
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,021
Abstinence or "not drinking"?
I decided to come to AA because I wanted to control my drinking. From what I understood AA claimed to help people stop drinking and that was the part I was having a problem with. The actual drinking part was going just fine. I didn't know anything about a new way of life or alcohol being the symptom of anything I just wanted to get control of when I did or didn't drink so I could continue on building my world around me.
That was 15 years ago and I still don't even have a year of sobriety.
To stop drinking, nothing else, as if that in and of itself is the problem is simply trying to control my drinking. It isn't enough for me. I need something else, a new way of life and AA offers a simple guideline for just that.
So far from what I have experienced this new way doesn't involve controlling alcohol. It involves freedom from alcohol.
If abstinence alone worked for me then I wouldn't be here.
(If abstinence alone worked for me I would probably be drunk right now but that only makes sense to alcoholics so forget you even read this part.)
Boleo I love what you have said here about spirituality. I shot right past the honesty part because that wasn't a problem and started working on my humility. I found humility to be incredibly elusive without true honesty...... who would of thought? I guess that's why it's a we program. I often need help with the obvious.
Thanks for the great post Boleo.
I decided to come to AA because I wanted to control my drinking. From what I understood AA claimed to help people stop drinking and that was the part I was having a problem with. The actual drinking part was going just fine. I didn't know anything about a new way of life or alcohol being the symptom of anything I just wanted to get control of when I did or didn't drink so I could continue on building my world around me.
That was 15 years ago and I still don't even have a year of sobriety.
To stop drinking, nothing else, as if that in and of itself is the problem is simply trying to control my drinking. It isn't enough for me. I need something else, a new way of life and AA offers a simple guideline for just that.
So far from what I have experienced this new way doesn't involve controlling alcohol. It involves freedom from alcohol.
If abstinence alone worked for me then I wouldn't be here.
(If abstinence alone worked for me I would probably be drunk right now but that only makes sense to alcoholics so forget you even read this part.)
Boleo I love what you have said here about spirituality. I shot right past the honesty part because that wasn't a problem and started working on my humility. I found humility to be incredibly elusive without true honesty...... who would of thought? I guess that's why it's a we program. I often need help with the obvious.
Thanks for the great post Boleo.
Laozi Old Man
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by bballdad
drinking is the leading cause of relapse
period!
period!
If you are like the "Real Alcoholic" described on page 24 & 34 of the Big Book, then you can not simply "Choose" not to drink for the rest of your life. You must have a spiritual solution like that found from a "Higher Power".
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
There was an excellent thread about "other behaviors" and the extreme sacrafice that some long term members make, rather than taking a drink. Can it be said that they relapsed?
If I look at my life - any time I drank after a period of sobriety, it began long before the actual drink. I believe alcoholism to be rooted in spiritual sickness - You can get back to being a sick alcoholic who just hasn't taken in a drink in a long time, pretty worthless to others I would think.
I guess it could be said that there was no relapse without the drink, as long as we have a fixed definition of relapse as being "consumption of alcohol after a period of abstinence". There are worse things that can happen sober...and I hate to see the message of this thread get lost in semantics.
A return to the condition of life listed in the second paragraph on page 52, which has nothing to do with drinking -is a pretty good gauge of return to a spiritually sick condition (relapse). You might not need to take a newcomer chip or change your sobriety date, but I would suggest going back to step one as opposed to "don't drink no matter what".
That 'no matter what' can mean death.
If I look at my life - any time I drank after a period of sobriety, it began long before the actual drink. I believe alcoholism to be rooted in spiritual sickness - You can get back to being a sick alcoholic who just hasn't taken in a drink in a long time, pretty worthless to others I would think.
I guess it could be said that there was no relapse without the drink, as long as we have a fixed definition of relapse as being "consumption of alcohol after a period of abstinence". There are worse things that can happen sober...and I hate to see the message of this thread get lost in semantics.
A return to the condition of life listed in the second paragraph on page 52, which has nothing to do with drinking -is a pretty good gauge of return to a spiritually sick condition (relapse). You might not need to take a newcomer chip or change your sobriety date, but I would suggest going back to step one as opposed to "don't drink no matter what".
That 'no matter what' can mean death.
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
Originally Posted by sugErspun
There was an excellent thread about "other behaviors" and the extreme sacrafice that some long term members make, rather than taking a drink. Can it be said that they relapsed?
If I look at my life - any time I drank after a period of sobriety, it began long before the actual drink. I believe alcoholism to be rooted in spiritual sickness - You can get back to being a sick alcoholic who just hasn't taken in a drink in a long time, pretty worthless to others I would think.
I guess it could be said that there was no relapse without the drink, as long as we have a fixed definition of relapse as being "consumption of alcohol after a period of abstinence". There are worse things that can happen sober...and I hate to see the message of this thread get lost in semantics.
A return to the condition of life listed in the second paragraph on page 52, which has nothing to do with drinking -is a pretty good gauge of return to a spiritually sick condition (relapse). You might not need to take a newcomer chip or change your sobriety date, but I would suggest going back to step one as opposed to "don't drink no matter what".
That 'no matter what' can mean death.
If I look at my life - any time I drank after a period of sobriety, it began long before the actual drink. I believe alcoholism to be rooted in spiritual sickness - You can get back to being a sick alcoholic who just hasn't taken in a drink in a long time, pretty worthless to others I would think.
I guess it could be said that there was no relapse without the drink, as long as we have a fixed definition of relapse as being "consumption of alcohol after a period of abstinence". There are worse things that can happen sober...and I hate to see the message of this thread get lost in semantics.
A return to the condition of life listed in the second paragraph on page 52, which has nothing to do with drinking -is a pretty good gauge of return to a spiritually sick condition (relapse). You might not need to take a newcomer chip or change your sobriety date, but I would suggest going back to step one as opposed to "don't drink no matter what".
That 'no matter what' can mean death.
please define a human being,sick or not as being "pretty worthless"
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Abstinence does not treat alcoholism
If drinking alcohol were the problem, the answer would be to stop drinking alcohol.
I heard Tom Brady Jr. say one time that spiritual growth, not abstinence is the quintescence of recovery. The deal is that sobriety starts with abstinence. If I'm not abstinent, I probably will not grow spiritually. If I don't grow spiritually, I probably won't remain abstinent. Abstinence is the lowest form of sobriety.
In its highest form, sobriety has nothing to do with drinking alcohol. To me, sobriety, sanity, and serenity are synonomous. Sobriety and sanity both mean "Right and rational thinking." Serenity means "Clarity of thought." There was a group of monks in the Egyptian desert about the fourth century after Christ, called the Desert Fathers. In their writings they said that in the final analysis, sobriety is purity of heart. In spiritual language, purity of heart means clarity of thought. It's a long way from abstinence to purity of heart.
I also believe that we sell newcomers short when we offer them sobriety. As Don P. has said, sobriety is the most intolerable condition of all for alcoholics. The whole reason I drank is because I can't stand being sober. I was not offered a "Don't drink no matter what" solution. I was not offered meetings. I was offered, to quote the 12x12, "A set of spiritual principles, which practiced as a way of life, expel the obsession to drink and enable the sufferer to become happily and usefullly whole."
So to offer the newcomer an abstinence only program, a "Don't drink no matter what" answer is to offer them a death sentence. Often the living death of untreated alcoholism. If I could not drink no matter what, I would not need a spiritual remedy. By no matter what, I'm not talking about the things in life that happen to us all. I'm talking about no matter how painful living gets. The pain of being seperated from God and from from my fellows. The pain of living in the middle of those bedevilments (p. 52) Adam spoke of.
When I am seperate from God, I become insane, strangely insane where alcohol is concerned. And when I am insane I drink again. Or maybe pride won't let me drink again, and I blow my head off. Because being seperate just hurts too bad.
I'll tell you what else hurts too bad. The greatest human pain is to be worthless or useless. I am useless when I am living a self-centered life. Because when I am self-centered I am shut off from God. So the answer is to become God-centered and to become useful to my fellows. And then I am not seperate, I am connected.
Jim
I heard Tom Brady Jr. say one time that spiritual growth, not abstinence is the quintescence of recovery. The deal is that sobriety starts with abstinence. If I'm not abstinent, I probably will not grow spiritually. If I don't grow spiritually, I probably won't remain abstinent. Abstinence is the lowest form of sobriety.
In its highest form, sobriety has nothing to do with drinking alcohol. To me, sobriety, sanity, and serenity are synonomous. Sobriety and sanity both mean "Right and rational thinking." Serenity means "Clarity of thought." There was a group of monks in the Egyptian desert about the fourth century after Christ, called the Desert Fathers. In their writings they said that in the final analysis, sobriety is purity of heart. In spiritual language, purity of heart means clarity of thought. It's a long way from abstinence to purity of heart.
I also believe that we sell newcomers short when we offer them sobriety. As Don P. has said, sobriety is the most intolerable condition of all for alcoholics. The whole reason I drank is because I can't stand being sober. I was not offered a "Don't drink no matter what" solution. I was not offered meetings. I was offered, to quote the 12x12, "A set of spiritual principles, which practiced as a way of life, expel the obsession to drink and enable the sufferer to become happily and usefullly whole."
So to offer the newcomer an abstinence only program, a "Don't drink no matter what" answer is to offer them a death sentence. Often the living death of untreated alcoholism. If I could not drink no matter what, I would not need a spiritual remedy. By no matter what, I'm not talking about the things in life that happen to us all. I'm talking about no matter how painful living gets. The pain of being seperated from God and from from my fellows. The pain of living in the middle of those bedevilments (p. 52) Adam spoke of.
When I am seperate from God, I become insane, strangely insane where alcohol is concerned. And when I am insane I drink again. Or maybe pride won't let me drink again, and I blow my head off. Because being seperate just hurts too bad.
I'll tell you what else hurts too bad. The greatest human pain is to be worthless or useless. I am useless when I am living a self-centered life. Because when I am self-centered I am shut off from God. So the answer is to become God-centered and to become useful to my fellows. And then I am not seperate, I am connected.
Jim
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northeast US
Posts: 1,340
This thread drew my eye- I think I'm a dry drunk, even though I'm going to AA meetings. I have 29 days. My brain has tanked. I'm starting to have vivid drinking dreams. "Son Of a B!tch Everything's Real" rings very true at the moment. I"m not drinking, I'm going to meetings, I found a sponsor... but I think my sponsor has one too many sponsees. She's just having me check in every day and 5/7 days I had to leave a voicemail and she never called me back. "Hi, it's me, checking in." Click. I don't see the value in that. Sharing in meetings was at first a hugely helpful "vent" but now I just feel more and more desperate. What good is talking about this stuff- I don't know how to deal with anything.
I'm drowning. Drinking is gone and I don't know what to do with myself. If I drink, I die, but this life is he11. I am the living example of this thread.
I'm drowning. Drinking is gone and I don't know what to do with myself. If I drink, I die, but this life is he11. I am the living example of this thread.
Laozi Old Man
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
SelfSeeking;
If your f2f sponsor is TOO busy to get you through the steps quickly, I suggest you get an on-line sponsor as well.
Simply create a post on this or any other recovery site stating that you need a sponsor.
You might want to start with a "women only" forum so as not to waste time with 13th steppers.
If your f2f sponsor is TOO busy to get you through the steps quickly, I suggest you get an on-line sponsor as well.
Simply create a post on this or any other recovery site stating that you need a sponsor.
You might want to start with a "women only" forum so as not to waste time with 13th steppers.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northeast US
Posts: 1,340
Thank you. I feel like no one understands how desperate I feel. I wasn't bs'ing when I came to AA, admitting to myself that my life is not manageable... that the way things were was intolerable... the powerlessness. I'm in the middle of my last year of graduate school and things are falling apart, even though I'm not drinking. I'm sure they'd be a lot worse if I was, but I'm in crisis mode, I don't have time to screw around, and my emotional state is... not good? I was a solitary drinker for the most part. I worked really hard to maintain appearances. Maybe I'm too good at it.
Sorry for highjacking the thread. Just.. have you ever had the feeling like you're screaming and no one can hear you? This has got to stop!
Sorry for highjacking the thread. Just.. have you ever had the feeling like you're screaming and no one can hear you? This has got to stop!
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