Always an addict?
Late stage optimist
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 306
Haven't visited this site in a while, did not subscribe to his thread. Looks like some were asking for data regarding the disease concept for recovery from alcoholism and addiction.
Start with the Doctor's Opinion in the book of Alcoholics Anonymous. First published in the 1930's, it is still valid today, albeit at that time not endorsed nationally or worldwide such as the theory is today. Current research is contained, generally (there are MANY research articles and publications supporting this proposition) on SAMHSA: The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration - Homepage
This is the home page link. Navigate within the website to get to the information. SAMHSA has many publications about addiction and recovery. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. Many very good publications are available from this organization for use by those who are treatment professionals, such as myself, but also for those interested in reading the material. Check it out.
ASAM (American Society of Addiction Medicine) is another resource that may prove more difficult to obtain the actual information unless you are a doctor or treatment professional. However, ASAM's publication entitled Principles of Addiction Medicine (3rd ed) has plenty of information about the disease concept and what works to keep people merely "abstinent" 2 or more years. From that publication you will find the statistic that a mere 2% of those who try to stop using or drinking actually succeed in maintaining abstinence past the 2 year milepost, and that their research revealed the common denominator among those who did stay clean was regular membership, attendance and/or participation in sober recovery support groups (not web based, live attendance) and a spiritual program of some type, whether it is 12 Step or church or some other avenue.
Not everyone trying to recover feels comfortable about the disease model. That does not, however, make it any less valid. In fact, discomfort in swallowing the theory is part of your symptoms of addiction. If I were to tell you that you were depressed, you may not agree with that either, but it does not make the depression go away. If I told you you have diabetes, that is a disease. You are free to believe it is not a disease. No one is stopping you. However, when you reach a point of kidney failure, you might change your mind. Same thing with recovery. It is not whether you agree with the theory, it is whether you are willing to do whatever it takes to get better.
If you are willing to go to any lengths to get well, you have to be willing to change your point of view on some things that you currently have strong opinions about, such as whether you have a disease. Just because you have a disease does not mean you can not live a full and very successful life. In fact, I guarantee if you embrace recovery as set forth in the 12 Steps and as embraced by the bulk of the private treatment world and the medical and mental health community, you can do anything you set your mind to do. I know, because I have been in this program for almost 18 years and it works. I am living proof that relapse does NOT have to be part of recovery. The courageous are those in recovery who deal with setbacks, death of loved ones and friends, and DON'T reach for a drink or drug.
Those with co-occurring mental health disorders have a more difficult pathway to success. That is why mental health professional assistance is essential for these people.
The real tale is how you live your life and whether you can respond in a healthy and productive way to crisis, health setbacks and life catastrophes, not what you write or say on a forum like this or a 12 Step meeting. If you feel you have a better way for yourself, come back and write about it in 10 or 20 years and let us all know what you did that you feel propelled you to the pinnacle of success in your life. I am sure everyone will listen.
Start with the Doctor's Opinion in the book of Alcoholics Anonymous. First published in the 1930's, it is still valid today, albeit at that time not endorsed nationally or worldwide such as the theory is today. Current research is contained, generally (there are MANY research articles and publications supporting this proposition) on SAMHSA: The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration - Homepage
This is the home page link. Navigate within the website to get to the information. SAMHSA has many publications about addiction and recovery. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. Many very good publications are available from this organization for use by those who are treatment professionals, such as myself, but also for those interested in reading the material. Check it out.
ASAM (American Society of Addiction Medicine) is another resource that may prove more difficult to obtain the actual information unless you are a doctor or treatment professional. However, ASAM's publication entitled Principles of Addiction Medicine (3rd ed) has plenty of information about the disease concept and what works to keep people merely "abstinent" 2 or more years. From that publication you will find the statistic that a mere 2% of those who try to stop using or drinking actually succeed in maintaining abstinence past the 2 year milepost, and that their research revealed the common denominator among those who did stay clean was regular membership, attendance and/or participation in sober recovery support groups (not web based, live attendance) and a spiritual program of some type, whether it is 12 Step or church or some other avenue.
Not everyone trying to recover feels comfortable about the disease model. That does not, however, make it any less valid. In fact, discomfort in swallowing the theory is part of your symptoms of addiction. If I were to tell you that you were depressed, you may not agree with that either, but it does not make the depression go away. If I told you you have diabetes, that is a disease. You are free to believe it is not a disease. No one is stopping you. However, when you reach a point of kidney failure, you might change your mind. Same thing with recovery. It is not whether you agree with the theory, it is whether you are willing to do whatever it takes to get better.
If you are willing to go to any lengths to get well, you have to be willing to change your point of view on some things that you currently have strong opinions about, such as whether you have a disease. Just because you have a disease does not mean you can not live a full and very successful life. In fact, I guarantee if you embrace recovery as set forth in the 12 Steps and as embraced by the bulk of the private treatment world and the medical and mental health community, you can do anything you set your mind to do. I know, because I have been in this program for almost 18 years and it works. I am living proof that relapse does NOT have to be part of recovery. The courageous are those in recovery who deal with setbacks, death of loved ones and friends, and DON'T reach for a drink or drug.
Those with co-occurring mental health disorders have a more difficult pathway to success. That is why mental health professional assistance is essential for these people.
The real tale is how you live your life and whether you can respond in a healthy and productive way to crisis, health setbacks and life catastrophes, not what you write or say on a forum like this or a 12 Step meeting. If you feel you have a better way for yourself, come back and write about it in 10 or 20 years and let us all know what you did that you feel propelled you to the pinnacle of success in your life. I am sure everyone will listen.
Late stage optimist
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 306
Another resource for those interested in reading from an expert in the field of addiction and alcoholism is any one of a number of books written by Terrence Gorski. He has a book entitled "Staying Sober" that is a reference I use in my own recovery. I particularly like his analogy between recovery and walking up a down escalator. If you stop working on your recovery, you are heading down the escalator, relapsing.
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Originally Posted by fuster
The real tale is how you live your life and whether you can respond in a healthy and productive way to crisis, health setbacks and life catastrophes, not what you write or say on a forum like this or a 12 Step meeting.
Originally Posted by fuster
If you feel you have a better way for yourself, come back and write about it in 10 or 20 years and let us all know what you did that you feel propelled you to the pinnacle of success in your life.
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Princeton, ID
Posts: 101
To be fair, some of the most vocal critics of the disease model seem to dislike it more for its consequences than for any positive evidence that alcohol misuse behaviors are just a "habit" that can be over come by a "moral imperative".
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Originally Posted by TheOnlyDryPaddy 
To be fair, some of the most vocal critics of the disease model seem to dislike it more for its consequences than for any positive evidence that alcohol misuse behaviors are just a "habit" that can be over come by a "moral imperative".
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I subscribe to the disease model more than anything although I prefer the term addiction.
It absolves me of nothing. To recover you need to take responsibility for yourself no what method you choose.
There's a lot of people here who follow the disease idea who clearly have not abrogated responsibility in any way.
That may be true for some. Maybe it's because I live with a chronic illness anyway that I see this differently 
I daresay there are some who could find the idea of an distinctive addictive voice in their head similarly absolving.
Humans are funny creatures - there's no pigeonholing them and no legislating for interpretation either
D
The disease model removes responsibility from the abuser for the abuse.
There's a lot of people here who follow the disease idea who clearly have not abrogated responsibility in any way.
If you tell people that they have a chronic, progressive, relapsing disease with no known medical cure, however, you effectively knock their knees out from under them. Not only might they not even try to quit as a result, but if they believe that said disease is compelling them to drink, they might actually drink more than they would otherwise.
I daresay there are some who could find the idea of an distinctive addictive voice in their head similarly absolving.
Humans are funny creatures - there's no pigeonholing them and no legislating for interpretation either
D
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Originally Posted by Dee74
I daresay there are some who could find the idea of an distinctive addictive voice in their head similarly absolving.
"You see, honey, the reason that I can't quit drinking is because the Devil is making me hear voices in my head, telling me to drink! No matter how many times I tell them to go away, the voices keep telling me to drink, and they only shut up if I drink!"
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
I had to laugh at this!
"You see, honey, the reason that I can't quit drinking is because the Devil is making me hear voices in my head, telling me to drink! No matter how many times I tell them to go away, the voices keep telling me to drink, and they only shut up if I drink!"
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Originally Posted by TheOnlyDryPaddy
Hallucinations are a sign of psychosis.
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
Dee mentioned the addictive voice, which tells you to "drink, drink, drink," as being absolving, which, incidentally, was not what I was driving at originally. Nevertheless, his response reminded me of the "Honey, I can't quit drinking, I have a disease" lines from addicted spouses that some people have posted about in the Friends and Family forum. I simply replaced "disease" with "voices," and not surprisingly, it sounds ridiculous.
Do you have any evidence that excessive, repetitive drug use is merely a "habit"?
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Originally Posted by TheOnlyDryPaddy
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
Dee mentioned the addictive voice, which tells you to "drink, drink, drink," as being absolving, which, incidentally, was not what I was driving at originally. Nevertheless, his response reminded me of the "Honey, I can't quit drinking, I have a disease" lines from addicted spouses that some people have posted about in the Friends and Family forum. I simply replaced "disease" with "voices," and not surprisingly, it sounds ridiculous.
Originally Posted by TheOnlyDryPaddy
Do you have any evidence that excessive, repetitive drug use is merely a "habit"?
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I was being slightly facetious.
Apologies if I confused anyone....
My point was that using a disease excuse to absolve ones self of responsibility would be ultimately self defeating.
I have cerebral palsy - it would be like me deciding not to walk anymore because it's difficult and tiring and I'll probably end up in a wheelchair anyway.
Ridiculous.
People may use 'disease' as an excuse - but that says more about the utterer, as I see it.
D
Apologies if I confused anyone....
My point was that using a disease excuse to absolve ones self of responsibility would be ultimately self defeating.
I have cerebral palsy - it would be like me deciding not to walk anymore because it's difficult and tiring and I'll probably end up in a wheelchair anyway.
Ridiculous.
People may use 'disease' as an excuse - but that says more about the utterer, as I see it.
D
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No one would ever argue that cerebral palsy is not a disease. The courage shown by those who live with CP for their entire life is an example of the best in human nature.
Equating alcohol addiction to CP begs the question, however, by assuming that they are both diseases. Since we may not ever prove or agree on this question of alcohol addiction being a disease, let's not discuss whether one point of view is true or false. Instead, why not consider which model is more helpful? I feel that is more to the point.
I believe I can choose whether to drink or not, and I have chosen not to drink. The comparison to CP fails at this point. I don't believe that I will live with alcohol addiction for the rest of my life. I just don't drink.
Equating alcohol addiction to CP begs the question, however, by assuming that they are both diseases. Since we may not ever prove or agree on this question of alcohol addiction being a disease, let's not discuss whether one point of view is true or false. Instead, why not consider which model is more helpful? I feel that is more to the point.
I believe I can choose whether to drink or not, and I have chosen not to drink. The comparison to CP fails at this point. I don't believe that I will live with alcohol addiction for the rest of my life. I just don't drink.
Last edited by freshstart57; 10-13-2011 at 06:01 AM. Reason: added something something
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I personally don't have any problem with the disease concept in and of itself.
What troubles me, and, I suspect, others, about the word "disease" is that it has come to be a metaphor for the idea that one is powerless over one's addiction and requires God's intervention to recover. I have found the latter concept unhelpful--even damaging, to the extent that it has been forced down my throat.
What troubles me, and, I suspect, others, about the word "disease" is that it has come to be a metaphor for the idea that one is powerless over one's addiction and requires God's intervention to recover. I have found the latter concept unhelpful--even damaging, to the extent that it has been forced down my throat.
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Originally Posted by onlythetruth
I personally don't have any problem with the disease concept in and of itself.
What troubles me, and, I suspect, others, about the word "disease" is that it has come to be a metaphor for the idea that one is powerless over one's addiction and requires God's intervention to recover. I have found the latter concept unhelpful--even damaging, to the extent that it has been forced down my throat.
What troubles me, and, I suspect, others, about the word "disease" is that it has come to be a metaphor for the idea that one is powerless over one's addiction and requires God's intervention to recover. I have found the latter concept unhelpful--even damaging, to the extent that it has been forced down my throat.
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
I don't like how people don't state which variation of the disease model they subscribe to when they are defending it. Are they talking about biological disease? psychological disease? spiritual disease? sin disease? You never can tell. For example, people often cite NCADD or ASAM, which declare addiction a primary disease, but they then go on to talk about underlying issues or character defects, which suggest that addiction is secondary to these things, a symptom.
All I mean is that there does seem to be a genetic component.
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Originally Posted by onlythetruth
All I mean is that there does seem to be a genetic component.
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Originally Posted by freshstart57
No one would ever argue that cerebral palsy is not a disease. The courage shown by those who live with CP for their entire life is an example of the best in human nature.
Equating alcohol addiction to CP begs the question, however, by assuming that they are both diseases. Since we may not ever prove or agree on this question of alcohol addiction being a disease, let's not discuss whether one point of view is true or false. Instead, why not consider which model is more helpful? I feel that is more to the point.
I believe I can choose whether to drink or not, and I have chosen not to drink. The comparison to CP fails at this point. I don't believe that I will live with alcohol addiction for the rest of my life. I just don't drink.
Equating alcohol addiction to CP begs the question, however, by assuming that they are both diseases. Since we may not ever prove or agree on this question of alcohol addiction being a disease, let's not discuss whether one point of view is true or false. Instead, why not consider which model is more helpful? I feel that is more to the point.
I believe I can choose whether to drink or not, and I have chosen not to drink. The comparison to CP fails at this point. I don't believe that I will live with alcohol addiction for the rest of my life. I just don't drink.
I'm not sure I'd posit a comparison between CP and alcoholism anyway simply because not many people have a good idea about what CP is or what its parameters are.
Unless things have changed in the last 20 years, CP is not actually categorised as a disease either (it actually encompasses many different types of motor dysfunctions) so that would kind of throw any comparative model off right off the bat lol.
I suspect my POV is less scientific than yours
I do find common points of reference in both tho - they're both things I have to learn to live with, and they're both things I can either accept passively and let them swamp me and define me...or...I can do my very best to not only live with them - but maybe even in spite of them
and that's what I was getting at
D
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