Terminally Unique

Says who? You can get off the elevator going down to that wonderful place six feet under any time you want to. All you need to do is knock it off - for good - and pay no attention whatsoever to any suggestions of controlled drinking/using experiments by those with "TIME".

The "disease" can do all the push-ups it wants in the parking lot - won't amount to much if you don't feed it.

BackToSquareOne

I don't think that the labels really mean that much in the whole scheme of things. There are a lot of vested interests though that need labels to bill insurance companies.

Latte

I don't label anyone else, I don't even label myself outside the rooms of AA/NA. I am honest with my health care providers and have never been treated badly for it.

I work my program and let others do what they need to to have the lives they want to.

eaglette

As a friend of mine put it, this is the only disease where one of the greatest symptoms is for the disease to tell you that you don't have one.

Latte

I don't lie to myself or the people I love, I find that is the most important part of the deal to me. Program or no program, I take the lead of people I respect. Heck, I don't even tell those little white lies to my children anymore. I may give them age appropriate information but if there is cake in the kitchen I answer yes. That doesn't mean they can have it, but that honesty has helped me on my journey.

So, the answer is, I do what I need to do to keep me clean and sober. If someone comes to me and asks how I do that I share. I do help those who ask and I lead by example every day. I'm raising two girls too, so I need to be extra careful about the examples I'm setting.

I'm not perfect, not by any means. I make mistakes all the time. Today I know how to get back up and shuffle along though and it's because of other people who struggle like I do that I can do that. The people here on SR, the doctors, the law enforcement, the social workers, my husband and friends and most importantly my children who have shown me the true grace of forgiveness.

heretik

I look at it this way. I recovered from a seemingly hopeless state complicated and compounded by drugs and alcohol. I am what I am but it is not a issue unless I ingest either a drug or alcohol. This may not be true for some but for me it is. I know because I had to experience it a few times. No reason for me to be angry, disturbed or left wanting. I did a full and honest inventory and found my truth. It is the results of this truth that set me free from contemplating this very question you asked at the start of this thread, ("Do anyone believe that once an addict NOT always an addict.") Ttal914.

NoelleR

"...Do anyone believe that once an addict NOT always an addict...."

Since this OP only has to do with addicts, I am not going to address whether I believe.....: once an alcoholic always an alcoholic. I have no personal experience with that.

However, regarding drugs, and being an addict (not just one's body being dependent, but a full blown junkie), I do have experience with that.

There was a time when I would have answered the OP's question with a big fat 'NO,' however, circumstances over the past 8-10 years have softened my answer. In fact, I believe I've completely changed it to, yes, I definitely believe that once an addict NOT always an addict.

I used to use the following story to try to explain my belief was the difference between an addict and a non-addict. Noelle (an addict) and Frances (a non-addict) were to take part in a drug test, regarding a certain drug's possible side-effects. Ohhhh boy......! Noelle couldn't wait.

Both Noelle and Frances were given the same drug, same dosage; same, same, same... After a bit, the effects of the drugs began to be felt; both Noelle and Frances were feeling a slight buzz, which was getting stronger.

At this point, Frances (remember, she's the non-addict) tells the doctors that she wants to quit; she's definitely NOT liking the feeling/buzz/effect of this drug.

Noelle, on the other hand, being the good li'll addict that she is, says to the doctors "Hey, this is awwwright....you got any more? I'd really like some more."

OK, analagy completed. Oh yes, Noelle was an addict alright.....straight from the height/ashbury of SF in the 60's (actually all my younger years were spent in SF). Whatever drug was out there, I would take it. My faves were coke, mdma, oxy's, heroin, meth, blah; blah, blah; blah, blah; blah, blah; blah blah; oh, and of course all the lsd, mescaline, psilocybin, peyote, et al.

Back in '86 I started on the road of recovery. Also being an alcoholic,; I used mainly AA; also because there were way fewer NA meetings, and they were usually way out.....beyond where Jesus lost His sandles; I didn't have a car; and Houston is big....as big as the state of Rhode Island; a small state, I know, but a state all the same.

Well, whadiyaknow, I recovered from my alcoholism and my addiction (oh, I know NA says we can only be recovering, but I've always preferred the minority opinion). Back in 2001/2002 I reinjured/agrivated my back (lower and hips).

NoelleR

(continued)

After lots of Dr. visits, x-rays, mri's, neurologic test, and a bunch of others, it was found that there was nothing 'right' with the ole back (I'm old 'n gettin older and the ole bod is just fallin apart.

So, out came the scripts........Fentanyl, oxycodone, norco, flexeril, zanaflex, celebrex, and some others that did absolutely nothing.....I had to come to the realization that I would probly be on these for the rest of my life, and my back problems/pain would never go completely away. .....and of course out comes the script for amitriptylin.....

So, there I was back on drugs........but not like before. I only took my meds as prescribed. I tell folks that I need these meds to function, for some quality in my life; to bring myself 'up' to what most folks see as chronic pain.....without them, I'd have no life.

Ok; here's the tie-in. I bet you thought I'd never get here....lol I had a real bad day and the pills didn't seem to be working, and even though I was way under the max dosages, I started to get a buzz...............and I did NOT like it...........hmmmmmm, go figure.

So, does this make me an ex-addict, and a non-addict now.....? Who knows.....and after all this writing here (and I appologize for all my typos); who cares.....certainly not moi....When it comes to alcohol and/or drugs, I say no thanks, I don't want any (and I never thought I'd here myself saying I did not want alcohol or drugs ......(of course with the exception of my meds).

Sooooo, here I'll leave y'all with big questions; something upon which to meditate, perhaps....? ....ex-addict....? ....a non-addict....? long as I wake up tomorrow morning up-right and above ground, it's all okey dokey to me................


(o:
NoelleF

sugarbear1

Using any substance (alcohol, or drugs) for me, was only a symptom of my disease. I don't drink or use, but still felt like crap. I have a design for living cause my way didn't work. Today, I am happy and all is ok.
I don't want to change this by drinking or drugging today.

Gmoney

I agree with Sugah and others that not everyone who has had a problem with drugs (in any form) are addicts. I also agree that 12 Step programs aren't the only solution for those who have been addicted to "something." I have several friends (that I used to get high with) that aren't in 12 Step recovery, but they all have over a decade clean.

Whether they are addicts or not is for them to say. I, on the other hand, am an addict. I have the disease of addiction which I believe is a disease because it has three traits that qualify it medically and legally: [1] it's progressive, [2] it's incurable, and [3] it's fatal. I do not believe in "genetic predisposition" but I do believe that during the course of my using history, I crossed those invisible lines from user to abuser to addict. I like the analogy given about the cucumber and pickle. Once pickled I cannot go back to being a cucumber.

Yet, with all that said, I do not cosign the stigma of "once an addict, always an addict" because we do recover and the disease can be arrested. I really don't see how "change and overcoming addiction" equals one is not an addict. My life is 100 times better than it ever was and I'm still an addict (with 13 yrs clean). Today I'm a "recovering addict" who doesn't entertain concepts of "normalcy" or what works for others. Honesty and my personal experience has shown me what I am, and I accept it.

G

soberlicious

Not everyone believes that alcoholism is a disease and those that don't aren't always in denial or using that belief as an excuse to continue drinking alcoholically.

Just because someone chooses not to use the label 'alcoholic', does not mean that they believe they can drink or use safely...those two things are not mutually inclusive. They do not have to go hand-in-hand.

Some people use the label, and stay clean.
Some people don't use the label, and stay clean.

Um...the key here is strip away any white noise stay clean

salvelinus

I MUST agree with this statement. Heroin brought me to my knees several years ago. So I thought the heroin (and other opiates) were the problem. Since the alcohol was legal, I didn't think this a problem. Until it brought me back to the opiates again!

I like AA, but when going to NA meetings after my last period of being strung-out, I conveniently ignored the statement in NA that "alcohol is a drug". Now I am paying for it... again!

Boleo

"I don't want any" is my experience as well. Even though I still have the body of an alcoholic, I no longer think like an alcoholic. That is to say;

I don't want it.
I don't need it.
I don't see any benefit in it.
I don't think about drinkin.
I don't think about not-drinkin.
I don't worry about relapse.
In fact - sobriety is no longer any of my business.

"We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid."
(Well maybe a little bit cocky LOL)

onlythetruth

I agree with you. I'm not in the camp of once an addict, always an addict. I don't accept labels, nor do I call myself an "alcoholic", recovered, recovering, or otherwise. I refuse to be defined by a problem I left behind during the last century.

djmnyc

I agree with you. The "addiction as disease" model is often misunderstood and not even close to being empirically verified. The Big Book was written in 1939, and modern medicine has advanced considerably since then, when people were treating alcoholics with hallucinogens such as belladonna (what Bill W. was on when he had his "white light" spiritual experience).

What modern research HAS shown is that after people use a certain substance extensively, their brains become modified in a way that they become adapted to use of the substance, which leads people to need that substance just to feel normal. Moreover, the brain will often retain that abnormality so that if a person quits, and tries to go back and use moderately, the brain will go back to addiction mode quickly, and make moderation and quitting quite difficult. Therefore, although I don't think I'm an alcoholic - I don't drink problematically nor have I for several years - I still choose to abstain because I believe that if I attempt to moderate I risk going back to the pattern of compulsive drinking that characterized my life for so many years.

Also, some research has shown that some people might be born with a genetic propensity towards alcohol having a more pronounced effect on them and thus more easily developing problem drinking.

MickeyAnMeisce

What would have to be demonstrated to make addiction a disease?

onlythetruth

First, everyone would have to agree on the definition of "disease".

Boleo

Let's not drag Bill Clinton into this... LOL!

soberlicious

LMAO Boleo...definitions can certainly be tricky!!!

Chihiro

I will be admitted into the Schick Shadel Hospital in Seattle this Monday. Everyday it seems i'd get high on oxycodone, cocacine, and weed....china white cocaine its almost a pure mix if a non-seasoned user tried it they would probably die from cardiac arrest.

I feel like when I do it puts me in a state of eurphoria and forget about all the B.S. even though I'm only making it worse..even when I went to visit my drug counselor I was high as kite.