shestruggles

Hi all. I have been toying with starting a methadone program after 10 years of opiate abuse, withdrawal and relapse. Recently I have been reading alot about Suboxone and have read some of the stories on this site.
I have found a doctor in my immediate area that can prescribe it, but had a few questions before I make the (costly) appointment
1) Why would someone reccommend Suboxone over Methadone?
2) What is the cost of Suboxone? I have no insurance. Methadone is $12 a day, plus a bunch of other fees. Could Suboxone be a better option cost wise?
3) What are the requirments to be eiligible for Suboxone treatment?
Any info would be great!

ashley80

1. Suboxone is available as a prescription, so you don't have to go to a clinic every day for your dose. Suboxone is supposed to be less physically addictive (and therefore easier to get off of, eventually) than methadone. Suboxone seems to make people feel more "normal" than meth. It is certainly more convenient.
2. Suboxone can be fairly expensive, sometimes doctors charge a lot of money for "office visits." You should shop around for the best deal. I wouldn't think that overall it would cost more than $12 per day, though. Mine cost about $7.50 per dose, including the cost of doctor visit.
3. It is prescribed for opiate dependency....sounds like you qualify. You need to be in mild to moderate withdrawal before your first dose, or it will make you sick. It's a strong drug, (and it is addictive, and it is an opiate, just like methadone), and many people (from what I've experienced and heard) do better on the lowest possible dose.

It's self limiting, because it's a partial opiate agonist/antagonist, so you can't take more to catch a buzz, like you can with other opiates. You should definitely read more about it, there is a ton of info on the web about it. Good luck, hope it works out for you!

Ashley

Ps...based on my experience using sub for short term detox off opiates, plus stories of others I have read and heard. I'm not a doctor....so you should also ask your doctor the same questions!

blitz

Hi Shestruggles,

I think you forgot to mention that you're on xanax, wich is incompatible with methadone. I didn't find anything about soboxone-xanax interactions bu that doesn't mean they don'exit. Maybe you should post that question beefore going "toying" with your health.

Peace- Pedro

sandyl225

Shestruggles,
Hi and welcome.I'm also new hear but I'll tell you my opinion.I was on methadone & percs.I tried one time to w/d from them on my own,it was the worst thing I could do,I seriously thought I was going to die,and I could have.There are horrible things that can happen>Methadone is the wirst drug to get off of,it attacks deep into your bone marrow.The usual w/d is 2-3 months,thats the physical part.I went to rehab and a DR put me on sub,it saved my life,but I was only on it for 3 weeks,that wasn't long enough.I went through severe anxiety,after being off the sub for 11 days,I had a severe anxiety attack ,I just stopped breathing.It wasn't from being off the sub,but being off the sub so early,I still had severe methadone w/d.My DR put me on Ativan(1mg every 6 hrs) at 1st I felt like I failed,but I can breath and move around again.I still have w/d but I know without the Ativan,I'd be back on my DOC.
So,please talk to your DR,going off methadone is very hard and you are going to need alot of support & care,I've been feeling so much better every day.You can do this,keep in touch with you DR & stay strong.I will be prayin for you!!!
Blessings,
Sandy

shestruggles

OK, So apparently I should also disclose than I am taking 2mgs of Xanax a day, which has been prescribed to me (for good reason) for the last 10 years. I also take an SSRI (anti-depressant) Does anyone have exerience with suboxone and other drugs?
I have been told that the doc will not let me start a methadone program with my other meds or it's suboxone or nothin'.
I would just like to know as muchas possible before I go see the doc.
Any info much appreciated!

blitz

Hi Shestruggles,

Yes, you should disclose xanax and SSRI. Here'a quote of suboxone interactions I found in the net:

"Suboxone may dangerously increase the effects of other drugs that cause drowsiness, including anti-depressants, alcohol, antihistamines, sedatives (to treat insomnia), other pain relievers, anxiety medicines and muscle relaxants. You should tell the doctor about all other medicines you are taking...". They even tell us to avoid herbal medicines and over-the-counter meds.

I guess suboxone is not such a simple drug to handle. It's up to you to decide. You know what I think it is.

logo

Just my opinion. Suboxone I used to get off Methadone. It was much easer than the cold turkey route I did before. I to am on Zanax also. I had no problems with it. But we are all different. I have never had any side effects except for ati depresents(they all made me a nut case). $12 a day times 7 = $84 a week. $84 times 4 = $336 a month times 12 = $4,032.00 a year. I could not afford that anymore. I had to get off & did. Hope this helps.

shestruggles

Hey logo:
Thanks for the info. I asked around a bit more and found out that methadone docs won't work with you if you are on any benzos here. Are you in the US? I am hoping to get on Suboxone with continued use of xanax. Of course, I am just hoping. I will call the 2 docs here that can prescribe it on Monday - lord knows, I may not even be able to get an apt. 1 step forward, 2 steps back, seems to be the way things work right now..
The prices you quoted: methadone? suboxone?
Thanks again to all for the information and insight!

logo

I went to a private methadone clinic. You could get away with just about anything. Private Drs. will not do this. State run clinics will not do this (Zanax). I live in Tampa, Fl. I plan to get off Zanax myself. For me it is just a crutch to face life. NA(in my area) is such hard core. You have to be off all mood or mind altering drugs. Or I will here a bunch off BS commenents. All of this is just my opinion.The prices I quoted was for methadone at a private clinic. $12 a day. Hope this helps. Logo

blitz

Hi logo,

AA and NA in every area are hard core concerning mood and mind altering stuff. After all those substances got us into trouble in the first place. In my case I started to drink socially and then to feel more relaxed and... and then I became an alcoholic. Don't you review a little of yourself in this when you mention Xanax as just a crutch to face life? Do you really need a crutch?Is there anything wrong with your life that you permanentely need to be eased from anxiety?

I know you can get off Xanax by yourself. So why don't you start doing it just now?

Logo, please understand that I'm not being critical about you: I'm just pointing out that the whole purpose of drug/alcohol free life is to get to know ourselves and learn to live with ourselves. It's easier, more fun and not dangerous at all. Believe me, I'm just on my 44th day and I already feel a completely different man. I see things in different colors, real colors, my self-esteem has sky-rocketed... with no crutches, and it's only the begginning.

Think about it, that's all I'm asking.

Hugs - Pedro

Jane63

Hi shestruggles,
I am also on a daily low dose of Xanax that I have taken for over 13-years for severe anxiety, stress, and phobias.
In July of last year I went to rehab to detox off my DOC which was Vicoden and have been successful every since. My doctor had no problem keeping me on the Xanax since I had never abused it before and still don't. There are certain medical conditions that benefit greatly from taking medication and even though I sometimes get beat up for this, I know in my own heart that it is the best decission for ME!

I am sorry I cannot give you much advice or info on Suboxone as I didn't go that route. I would do as much research about it as you can and talk to your doctor about it. There are also other anxiety medications and even something called Xanax-XR that you might want to discuss with your doctor to see if they are more comfortable with that.
I know how debilitating anxiety can be and I just hate to see anyone have to suffer through.

First things first though, and I definately would come clean to my doctor as that is your best hope of getting started down the road to recovery.
Good luck to you!
Jane

WNY Addict

You have no insurance... but you've been abusing opiates and taking prescription Xanax now for over a decade, correct? You must see a doctor for the xanax scripts, and that would involve some office visit also, correct?

Why is it not a problem to fork over the money for the opiates and benzos, but the cost of methadone or suboxone is of concern?

Are you looking to get clean or just save a few bucks?

shestruggles

WOW WNY, That was a little harsh. I do not have insurance, and if you had read the other posts, you would know that I have a prescription for Xanax, and have had it for 10 years. One of the good characterisitcs of taking Xanax is the fact that they are dirt cheap, espcially compared to other anti-anxiety medications I have tried with out success. I am also on the cheapest SSRI, a very old one called Pamelor. It has more side effects than the newer, more refined versions, but: costs -benefit analysis, my friend, I have opted to take this particular SSRI.
Yes, I have to make occasional office visits, which I have to pay for, so I always try to find out as much info as I can before I go in there, to minimize the # of visits I make. I have proven myself to be a trustworthy patient with respect to the Xanax, so I am given prescriptions for 6 months at time.
As for the opiates: no defense - I spend money I don;'t have on them, and it's inexcusable, disgusting and must stop. As far as my decision with methadone/suboxone, I am trying to get as compete as profile as possible on both drugs before going ahead. For example: on this site & my own research I have learned that benzos and methadone are imcompatable, thus saving me the $150 'intake' session with a methadone nurse. There is nothing wrong with me trying to find info and other's experience with suboxone before scheduling an appointment with a NEW doctor who is able to prescribe it.
Perhaps you're taking the 'tough love' approach to my recovery, but your last comment was a little out of line. I am looking to get clean. I also need to factor finances into the decisions I make, at the very least, so I can budget them into my future plans.
Peace all:SS

WNY Addict

I was a little harsh, shestruggles, but that's also because I look at addiction as a life and death matter, not a game of chance. You're talking, and I see an addict talking and rationalizing. Giving up opiates with the intent to continue using benzos seems a little questionable at best. You really don't know if you even need benzos for a legit reason if you've been abusing opiates the whole time you've been on xanax, do you? Yet, you don't want to give them up because they're a "legit script"... "you've been getting them for over 10 years".

That's rationalizing.

I used both, and I put down the prescribed 6mg of xanax a day when I was getting high. I didn't need them and they were also a "legit prescription" because I had blackout panic attacks... and all that other good stuff.

I see a lot of people try to "dabble" with their addiction by modifying it, and I've help bury many people who've tried to do just that. You can call it tough love (or whatever you wish), but I just see it as calling you out because I see an attitude in your posts that reflects an unwillingness to go without the xanax. I really don't see the relevance in it being a prescribed medication (many addicts start out with legit scripts), and yes I did catch that in your initial posts... so you don't have to reiterate it for me.

Some people do need the meds (and I've defended such people on this forum) but your instant relectance to even contemplate a change in anti-anxiety drugs really would make anyone serious about recovery question the sincerity of your desire to get clean.

I had a "valid prescription" to take up to 6 mg of xanax a day for my panic disorder. I found that I didn't need a benzo when I was abusing opiates. Most additction (or any medical) docs would tell you that the opiates you're abusing work on those benzo receptors anyways... so how do you even know that you need those benzos? You've addmitted abusing opiates the whole time you've been on xanax. Opiates are in fact anti-anxiety drugs, did you know that? They're depressants of pain receptors and the central nervous system.

You may have been taking scripts for them for 10 years, but do you really need them... or are you just holding on to a controlled substance that you can still fall back on when life isn't going your way?

I admire the fact the you want to get off of the opiates, but what's the use if you're going to kick opiates only to possibly abuse benzos. I never abused xanax when I was an opiate addict (never touched them actually), but that was because the opiates gave me the high I was looking for. I know if I didn't have the opiates though I would've been abusing my benzos... or whatever controlled substance I could get my hands on. Opiates were just my drug of choice. I liked being high, not being calm. I'd take a chemically induced calm over sobriety during my using days though. Not having any opiates would make me anxious, so I know I'd abuse a benzo... thus I got rid of my stockpile. My toilet took a couple hundred miligrams of alprazolam

I had a stockpile of hundreds and hundreds of 2mg xanax tabs that I threw away once I got clean. I was stocking up while abusing opiates. I found out that I was depressed and anxiety ridden, but I corrected that by starting to correct myself. It would've been easier to take a pill to do that, but that defeats the purpose of recovery, no? There's also a reason why doctors won't take opiate addicts for soboxone that are still taking (or unwilling to give up) benzos, right? Why do you think that is? The potential for crossing over to a benzo addiction is almost guaranteed... that's why.

You may very well need xanax for the rest of your life. Some people can't function due to actual panic disorders that they've seriously tried correcting without drugs. I thought I was one of those people too. What made me make the comments I did was you instant wall of apprehension about dropping the benzos. It just concerns me. I've seen many friends cross over to other drugs, and I've seen those other drugs take many lives.

Best wishes and prayers.
Sincerely

shestruggles

WNY: I will not argue with you over whether or not I need alprazolam; you know what's right for you, I know what is right for me.. There was no instant wall of aprehension, I just didn't feel the need to provide you with my complete medical history, although you can find find some of in in my other posts.
I have been through other anti-anxiety meds and they have not helped. My anxiety disorder was well documented way before I tried my first opiate. I have lost close family members whose anxiety and agrophobia overtook thier lives. I very am well educated on the origins of my anxiety, both physiolgically and pyscholgically, I am very knowledgable about (and compentent in) non-medical coping techniques, and...to be honest with you, I don't feel like finishing this post. Why am I defending myself????
You are free to express your opinion on MY condition,as uninformed as it is...

I started this thread to find some information and experiences with Suboxone. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Take Care!

WNY Addict

I'm not arguing with you, shestruggles, but you seem to be taking it defensively.

All I've done is share my experience with you as someone who had panic attacks that led to blackouts... was on 6mg of xanax a day... and someone who also abused opiates. I myself didn't experience anxiety when I was in the bowels of opiate abuse. I was too numb to feel anything. You have a plan, and you're going to go through with your plan.

I wish you well in your venture.

shestruggles

Thanks for your good wishes.
I did take offense at your 'belittling' my attempt at recovery by finding out more about methaodne & suboxone. Unprovocted and untrue statements such as:
" Are you looking to get clean or just save a few bucks?"
and;
"...your instant relectance to even contemplate a change in anti-anxiety drugs really would make anyone serious about recovery question the sincerity of your desire to get clean."
are discouraging and unneccesary.
I understand there was a message of concern in there somewhere and for what it's worth, I do appreciate it.
Peace.

blitz

Hello Shestruggles,

I found these two links in the web that might be of some help:

http:/suboxone.drugs.com/
www.talkingdoc.com/medication/subutex.htm

The latter also includes suboxone. Needless to say that both of them require you to disclose a number of meds you're on at the moment, such as alprazolam, in order to closely monitor the administration of suboxone and re-adjust the amounts of the substances.

Needless to say either that you're free to collect all information you can about whichever substance you think can help you getting rid of the oppiates addiction without giving up your xanax prescription. I'm trying to help you there but with ONE condition, if I may: allow me to remind you every time that for your own good do not hide anything from the doctor you're seeing, Interactions can be deadly.

I hope those links work. If they don't let me know and I'll make a transcript for you,

Love - Pedro

shestruggles

Awesome, thanks Pedro!
I made an appointment with one of the doctors in my area, and already disclosed all of the prescriptions I am taking (with dosage). They wanted that info before even deciding if they would take me as a patient. I also gave them my regular doc's name and number to call and verify everything. They just called me back and have accepted me! That does not mean they will start me on it right away, but that the doc thinks I may be a suitable patient. The inital apt is $200 (wow!) and I must be clean for at least 1.5 days before going, just in case they decide to start me right away.
Thanks again for the links. I want to go in there with as much information as possible on suboxone and any potential drug interactions. You are very right about interactions - you just never know.
I will keep you posted as to the doc's assessment. Thanks again - I'm gonna check out those links now.

WNY Addict

First of all, when did I ever belittle you?

If you actually take the time to really read my post, shestruggles, I didn't make any untrue statement that you were "just looking to save a few bucks". You'd maybe like to believe that (or have others think I'm just picking on you), but in reality, I simply asked you a question. How is my question an "unprovoked untrue statment"?

Please... elaborate if that's what you really believe to be true. How is my question to you and "unprovoked untrue statement"?

I brought up some very valid points. Others have PMed me to tell me that I was right with what I said... you're treading through danger. In as polite a manner as possible I called you out on some things that I noticed as concerning for an addict with your history (and no, my history isn't any prettier). I didn't make any "untrue statements", shestruggles, so please recind that commment.

You're trying to make it appear as if I'm picking on you and all I'm trying to tell you is that you're treading very dangerous waters alone. Would a dealer be so concerned for your wellbeing? I think not. Would you listen to harsher things from a dealer? I imagine you would... and you'd thank him and come back for more.

The bottom line is most normal folk don't smoke crack or shoot dope, so you really should ask yourself whether taking a contolled substance like xanax is a good idea if you're trying to get clean from an IV drug habbit?

If you're serious about getting clean, maybe something else could work. Maybe try Xanax XR for awhile like someone else stated? it's going to give you the same results without you using four 0.5mg tabs daily. A doctor may be more open to a once a day 2mg tablet because it shows that you're not looking to stockpile and abuse them. They make a nice 2mg XR tab that you take once a day, and most people I know that've tried it say it works better than the regular tabs because there's no peak-trough effect. No ying-yang effect if you will. If anything, it could help your anxity because it's a constant level of alprazolam... that's as opposed to missing doses or taking them sporadically in between using. It's released slowly, and that benefits the increased excretion rate because I read you also smoke cigarettes. 'Smokes' will decrease the benzo level in your blood up to 70%... a XR sustained release form of XaxaX will prevent that from being as much of an issue. It could work better for you as a smoker.

Again, I just have to ask, how do you know if you really need XanaX if you've been in a opiate induced haze for the 10 years while you've been on it? Why not try the XR? Open your mind and ears to people that've flopped on their face trying to do it their way.

I shared my experience with said drugs... I've been on (and abused) all of them... make what you will out if it.

As for NA and meth or suboxone, all we care about is you and your desire to get clean. Who cares if you're on meth or suboxone, go to some NA meetings! All you need to be a member is a desire to stop using... that's it.

Whomever told you that methadone (and now suboxone) wasn't looked at kindly in NA was lying to you. Many of my friends were saved my methadone prorams, and they were in a meth program when they started NA. My close friend (sponsorship brother) went through the meth program over a 6 month period, and he's now completely clean for the first time in his 47 years of age!

I was a hopeless addict... even when I was sober. NA gave me a new way of living, a new way of thinking, and a new way of dealing with thoughts of using. It's a life saving program. I believe anyone has the strength to get clean (and stay clean for some time) on their own. I think the ease of that transition (and more importantly the ability to maintain sobriety) is increased 1000% when an addict uses The Program.

We're nothing more than addicts that've found sobriety and happiness, and all we want is to help the still suffering addict get clean and be serene. I may have seemed abrasive to you, but I was only offering you what I saw in your posts... the truth. Some people sugarcoat stuff here to keep you coming back. I want you to keep coming back, but I believe that if you really have a desire to get (and stay) clean you're willing to listen to the truth... even if it's a bit "harsh" or "abrasive".

Keep coming back, shestruggles... and better yet, get offline and hit up some local NA meetings.

Prayers for your recovery. I only wish you sobriety and serenity.
Peace