BlueChair

I havent posted in a little while with questions, but I could use some support, some idea if others have experienced anything like what my husband is going through, and if you have suggestions on how I can best help him through this I would also appreciate hearing it.

I guess for those who dont know, last year he was binging on cocaine, got to the point of injecting it, along with heroin and some other drugs. Almost died from drug use, an infection in his stomach. Hes not been using since then, did rehab, has an addiction counselor, we do family therapy, he has a sober adviser given to him from his employer he meets with weekly. Hes been trying very hard. The doctor diagnosed paws a while back. He has anxiety and depression.

There have been several stressful things this past month. Good stress and bad for him. The friend he was using with has been in rehab, and we went to visit him there. He isnt staying in association with him, but he felt like he needed to see him while in rehab. I went too. The friend is now out of rehab completed his time. My husband has been getting more responsibility at work, and recently went on a week long trip for work where he was in charge of a team and client situation. It went well, but he said it triggered an adrenalin rush and then a fall once he got back to work in the office. Things still arent back to normal there and he feels underutilized.

Sorry for all that, but I thought maybe you needed background.
He hasnt been sleeping well again, anxious at home. Monday he went to see his counselor and told him he wanted to cut back on seeing him. And the doctor told him no. An outright no. he came home upset and we talked. He seemed better, but yesterday he called in the day and said he had scheduled another appointment, he was feeling unsettled, like his brain wasnt functioning normal and I could tell he was panicking. We had a family session last night and he scheduled this before our appointment.

I got to the rehab for the family session, and he was already there with his doctor in with the family doctor and they were waiting for me. I wasnt late, I got there early. I was so scared when I saw them all there together. His doctor walked over and said hello and gave me a hug because I hadnt seen him in a while. I asked if everything was ok, and he said Yes, he just wanted to take a few minutes where we could all talk and he wanted to ask me some questions about how I thought he was feeling, anxiety, depression.

I told him everything. He asked me about the stronger anxiety med because he was told I was holidng onto them and my husband said he didnt even know how many were left. I am holding them, and he hasnt asked for any, or taken any in a long time. He said he was writing a prescription for a few more and for me to keep holding them, but let him decide if he needs one. We can talk about it, but its ok if he needs to take one especially at night because he wants him to sleep.

The doctor drug tested him and wanted me to know. He said Monday he was up and wanting to stop counseling and by Wednesday he was down and called for an extra and with what he saw in behavior he had to check to make sure he was treating the right thing.

The doctor thinks the stress of the last few weeks has caused his underlying anxiety to flare up, and its linked with depression. I asked him if this was part of a normal recovery process, or was this something going on before. he said he felt it was both.

He was really shaky and quiet during the whole conversation. The family doctor spent most of the time talking to us about stress reduction, meditation, and getting him to talk a little about how hes managing stress and some of the thinking process he has to break it down.

They both said he did the right thing is coming in, and talking to me about it. I asked the doctor if this could be a precursor to a relapse, and he said yes if not managed correctly, and its why very important he came in and asked for help.

We stopped to eat on the way home and hes very sad and feels beaten down I think. We stopped for ice cream to take home and he stood there and could not decide. He couldnt pick and started getting frustrated and upset like his brain isnt working. I told him its no big deal we will take a whole bunch home for the freezer. I was worried about him driving the rest of the way because we had separate cars.

I asked him if he wanted to stay home today and I would take the day off, but he said no he wanted to go to work. He didnt want any of the pills last night, and he slept I think he was so tired.

It was scary and I feel like I should have been more worried days ago and saw this escalating. I feel like Ive failed him, because what if he didnt have the courage to make the call? Hes going 2x next week and the doctor asked him to think about meeting with the sober guy 2x next week also. Encouraged him to call if needs help day or night.

I would like to know how all this sounds to you guys, and please just tell me the truth. I dont know why all this takes so long, its been almost a year and I think we're both wondering will it ever stop and he wont go into panic attacks anymore.

FT

Hi BlueChair,

I think I can give you my thoughts, for what they are worth.

I am dealing with similar psychological problems in the months following drug rehab. Not my husband, but another very close family member.

In my case, the drug involved was weed, an addiction of many years. My family member is only three months post rehab, but he demonstrates much of the same behavior.

What I think occurs is that the same psychological issues that were present BEFORE the drug was ever an issue are still there after the drug is gone. Often the addict has been self-medicating with various substances for years before the substances at issue for rehab came into play. Whatever caused the self-medication to begin with is now right there, cold and bare, staring at the addict in the face.

Life is hard, and often the person has never learned coping skills to begin with. Whatever stage of development the person was in when the self-medicating began, that's where they are now.

In my case, I think the addict is now returned to the adolescent stage of maturity in terms of coping. The world is now overwhelming, everything is frightening. The psychiatrists involved in my family member's care liken it to a form of PTSD.

So, these things take time. Hopefully your husband will not relapse, because each time they face getting clean all over again, it becomes harder and harder.

My advice it to be gentle with him, like you are being. Allow him to express his fears. When he freezes and can't make decisions, allow him to freeze and don't prod. You are doing a good job. This could take a long time before he moves from this place of panic and anxiety, because coping skills are not easily come by if you did not learn them as a child.

doggonecarl

If your husband relapses, it will have nothing to do with what you may, or may not, have done.

GracieLou

Ditto.

There is nothing, I repeat nothing, that you can do or not do.

It is his recovery, he has to own it. Do not take the weight. You can support him but do not attempt to do it for him.

anykey

.....if I were me- I would move on.

cleaninLI

Blue I'm not sure what could be causing this. I know it must be hard to watch. Gathering all the info you have said about your husband on other threads he has never had this problem before. He makes big decisions every day with his job right? So I'm sure his inability to decide which ice cream to take home is very much out of character. It could be that he was in the midst of a panic attack at that time, and couldn't concentrate.....maybe he didn't want to tell you.....didn't want you to worry? I know he tries to be strong. Has any other problems like this come up since then?

I think it's awesome that you want to support him. I'm glad that your doctors have stressed the importance of you two being a team....and getting him thru the tough times. I can't say enough how important my husband's support has been for me in my recovery. Without it....I would not have gotten as far as I have....that I'm positive. He is very lucky to have a wife like you!

Congrats to your husband....I know he's doing very well and has gathered many months of clean time....almost a year right? I also know how good he is with you....how caring...and respectful....honest....those are all signs of recovery. There may be bumps in the road....so far there hasn't been any.....but I think your desire to know more and more about addiction and ways to help him along the road will aid in his success.

BlueChair

Thanks for all your input.

I am ok as far as my part goes. I feel strong and stable, but I also feel like I wasnt viewing the anxiety with enough seriousness. My first reaction is always he can handle it, he knows what to do, he will talk to me (and he has been) but when you see your husband standing in front of a cooler of ice cream unable to take it all in and make a choice. It makes me think um Thank God he called his doctor and was able to reason it out and do it. He said our talking this week and reviewing his actions made him start to think and he knew he was not thinking right, then he got scared.

He was not like this ever before the drugs. He has a good job with a lot of responsibility and has to make decisions, look at tiny details and he can take stuff in and come up with the best answer before I even have an idea of what the problem is. This is what Im used to seeing.

Good news is we have a lot of ice cream now !!

((FT)) thank you because I think much of this is as you described. Its going to take time. One thing is he's used to not giving a lot of attention to his own feelings but would turn to work and use it as an outlet. But now his work is slow and he is in counseling and he has to face his emotions. He cant avoid feelings and he has to learn new ways. It is a lot like what you are seeing with your family member. Thank You !!

((Cleanin)) Thank you, yes we have a good marriage despite all these problems and he has always been a good husband, minus crazy stuff he did when using hard last year. But hes worked hard to help repair the damage and I cant ask for more.

OpioPhobe

Blue - I have had similar things happen to me in early recovery. In fact, it has been happening recently. The best way I could describe it is consternation / confusion. It has been getting better though.

The first thing I would say is that I don't think you in any way failed him. At the end of the day it is on him to do the work. I look at it as an overall positive though. He wasn't feeling right and he reached out to his doctors. Also, he didn't use, which is all that really matters at this point.

Even with all of your efforts and the doctors efforts it may or may not work. That part will be up to him. However, I think you are doing the right thing to try everything in your power to help him. If it doesn't work out then it seems like it would be easier to accept if you tried everything you could think of. How could someone walk away from a marriage without trying everything?

I do think that you are doing the right thing in at least trying to help him. In fact, I think you are doing a great job. With regard to the broader question of whether a spouse can have an effect on someone else's recovery here is what I think:

The idea that a spouse cannot have ANY influence on a loved ones recovery just strikes me as absurd. Our spouses are a critical part of our lives and the behavior of one spouse does have some impact on the behavior of another. If anyone disagrees with this then I would ask them why a spouse is afforded some special status in life. If someone in recovery hangs around with old using friends then it would be clear to me that it would have some negative influence on the recovering addict. If not, then why do people seem to take care about avoiding old using friends? There would be no reason to avoid them unless you believe that others had SOME influence on us.

My opinion is that every action we take during the day has some influence on others. From something as simple as a sneer or smile at a waitress at breakfast to a blow out fight with our spouse - it all impacts those around us. The concept of a spouse of an addict saying that there was nothing that they could do seems like a cop out to me. It is a way to avoid facing any of the problems that they cause in the marriage / relationship. No one is perfect, and everyone makes mistakes. We either own up to our mistakes or we spend our whole life blaming everyone else.

To solely blame the addict for everything gives the spouse carte blanche to act in any way that they so choose. The advice that spouse then gets is that NOTHING was their fault. That would be a simple way to justify ANY behavior in a marriage just like an addict's AV can come up with any justification to continue using.

I am sure some will construe this as an addict trying to blame others for their using. That isn't the case at all. The addict can always choose to terminate the marriage so long as they put not using as the absolute priority in their life. However, a spouse that takes no responsibility for ANY behaviors that they take in their marriage is putting the addict in an impossible situation. They can either continue leading a life of abject misery until they break down and use or they can leave the marriage. Either way, without the spouse making changes in their life too the marriage is certain to go down in flames. I have yet to see the first person that was the spouse of an addict in a failed marriage take responsibility for any of their own actions.

In my case, I recently found out that during my recent 1 1/2 years of clean time my wife was intentionally making things difficult because she wanted to punish me for the past. I was furious at first, but I am glad that she admitted that. If she hadn't done that I would have continued resenting her about it for the rest of my life. Things are getting much better now, but I did come to the realization that it would be impossible for me to stay clean long term if the marriage continued in that manner indefinitely. That is a prime example of a spouse having a negative influence on recovery. I still accept responsibility for my relapse though. There were things that I could have done differently and I should have chosen divorce rather than using if it came down to it.


Anyway, sorry for veering off topic. I think what you are doing is commendable and you seem like a very caring person. If it doesn't work out in the end you will at least have the comfort of knowing that you did everything in your power that you could.

TiredEnough

Blue, I went through something similar. I got to the point that a restaurant menu would baffle me. Easy decisions on alot of things would just leave me blank. All I could manage was "I don't know". That left over time as I realized not every decision we make is life or death. It seemed so at the time, though.

I applaud your sticking with your husband. Once people agree to help, it doesn't only mean when things are going just right. I think alot of folks sign on to stay but don't really consider the struggle ahead. Bitterness and resentment are sure to follow.

Lily1918

blue... I would recommend doing some reading about what relapse is.
It's a lot more than using again. Often times an addict can relapse without even touching the drug. Sometimes an addict will pull themselves out of a relapse before they actually use, other times... well... they aren't so lucky. I agree with what the other posters have said that there is nothing you can or can't do to effect whether he relapses or not.

honestly... I see some red flags here. I'm not saying he's using! Just saying I see you describing some behaviors that don't reflect genuine recovery.

including a post that's all about him...

OpioPhobe

This whole concept that there is NOTHING a close family member can do to cause / prevent a relapse just strikes me as absurd. It seems to be common knowledge though, which typically means that outside opinions are wrong. I'll admit that I could be dead wrong on this one, but I haven't heard anything close to convincing yet.

Maybe someone can explain where I am off on the following scenario. Let's say there is an addict that was sexually abused for years by a family member. To cope the addict starts drinking and taking every drug imaginable to deal with the terror of the situation. Let's also assume that the family member got convicted of a different crime and was in lock-up for 5 years. Over those 5 years the addict got clean and was living a happy, productive life. When that family member gets out of prison they track the addict down and rape them. The next day the addict relapses.

So whose 'fault' is it that the addict relapsed? The addict bears responsibility for their actions, but to say that the rapist is blameless for the relapse seems completely absurd to me. In fact, I would argue that the rapist carries the vast majority of the blame. If someone goes around raping people it is going to have a terrible, lasting impact on their well being, and I don't see how that isn't supposed to impact the recovery process. I will try to be open minded about this if someone can explain how the addict is solely responsible for the relapse in this case.

This is clearly an extreme example, but the assertion that NOTHING someone else could do can influence whether a person relapses is equally extreme in my mind.

If I am right to think that getting raped would have some impact on a person's chances of relapse then the next question is where the cutoff is. If sexual assault has an impact on someone's relapse then physical abuse could too, right? If physical abuse could then psychological abuse could too, right? If so, how do we define psychological abuse? Would someone nagging a spouse a hundred times a day be OK, but 1,000 times a day would cross the psychological abuse threshold?

Also, if family members can't have ANY impact then why are addicts even told to seek help? It seems to be common advice that an addict should "seek help" yet family members are told that there isn't anything they can do to help! How is that supposed to work? If the counterargument is that addict's are supposed to seek "professional help" then I would say that a family member can always go to medical school and become a professional. Addicts are told to go to any length to stay clean so why can't a family member that actually cares become a professional if that is the only way to actually help? What if the family member was already a professional? Would that have any impact on whether or not they could help? Also, only seeking professional help would mean that AA/NA are both pointless organizations, and it is clear that they are actually very helpful for a lot of folks.


Blue - I don't know what else to say other than I think you should do what you think is right. If you want to help your husband then I think you should do it, and not feel guilty about it. It seems like you are well aware of the risks. I do agree that even if you do everything in your power it may not be enough. You will never know if you don't try though.

Jessika78

Opio, I understand what you are saying, but I think you are confusing the difference between something influencing one's behavior and something being directly responsible for it. Sure, most addicts have a history of many different outside influences or "causes" as to why they abuse drugs. But everyone has a history, and not everyone who goes through the same issues will respond with the same thing. I'm sure there are a lot of people in the world who have been raped and have not turned to drugs to cope. They say there is nothing that a family member can do to "help" because no matter what the family member does, no matter how many "right" things they do, no matter how much they love their addict, there is absolutely NOTHING they can do to make them not use. It is ultimately my decision how I handle certain situations and whether or not I decide to use because of outside stimuli.

Are there things that a husband or wife can do that will help or hinder a person's recovery? Absolutely. But it is ultimately the addict's responsibility whether or not they stay clean and NO ONE else's. I'm a double winner who has been dealing with an addict family member for 20 years, and I actually found these forums years ago for the friends and family section. I believe that when this is usually advised - that there is nothing you (as a friend or family member of an addict) - it is because the friend or family member is under some type of assumption that they could have made the addict not have a relapse (or something similar). It doesn't mean, to me anyway, that there aren't things that they can do as loving family members to help the process, just as there are things they can do to impede it. Obviously an ideal situation is to have the love and support of your friends and family. But people get sober every day without that, just like people who have all of the love and support in the world will still relapse. That's why they recommend working on yourself instead of getting too involved with the addict's recovery, because typically the family member has become just as sick if not sicker than the addict.

I hope some of that makes sense. Blue Chair, I've followed your story and think you have come a LONG way. I can't even begin to imagine how difficult this has been for you, but I see so much progress in how you're dealing with everything. I did get the same reaction as someone above when I read that you felt like you should've taken this more seriously and that you feel like you could've done something differently to help. That is the main part of the thread that makes me think "but that's not your job". You are doing everything you can, but you should not take on any responsibility for your husband's actions. It sounds a lot like PAWS which you have mentioned the doctor did say he was dealing with. Have you researched PAWS? I've read a good bit about it, and I particularly recognize the symptom of "foggy brain" or just not being able to form your thoughs or think clearly. It is a very good thing that he saw this as an obstacle, and instead of giving in, he worked through it.

But despite all of the tools he and you are gaining, relapse can and might happen. And if it does, you can not carry the burden of "what could I have done to help". You two are doing an excellent job, and at this point it is all out of your hands. Just keep working on you and your marriage, and hopefully your husband can get to a place where this all isn't so much work. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that he has to learn how to deal with the anxiety and depression using healthy things because he never really has. Y'all just keep doing the work, and things will get better eventually! Praying for you both.

Jessika78

One last thing, Blue Chair. I love when someone asks if this will ever get better, and Dee's usual response is that if it didn't, nobody would ever recover. I think this is so true! People to on every day to have healthy, fulfilling, drug-free lives. It will take some time, but it won't always be this difficult.

BlueChair

Thanks TiredEnough !!

YES!! Its like the little things baffle him at times and he thinks the importance of his decisions is HUGE when its not. Picking out ice cream, what cant find a certain pen at home and will search for IT instead of picking up a new one, the other day he took a long time deciding which laundry detergent to use because one had color safe bleach in it. I saw him standing there thinking and then he finally asked me. I said well do you want the whites whiter, or do you want the Mountain Fresh Scent? He said I want both. So I said put in a little of each. Problem solved.

Im really proud of him for calling the doctor, but it was scary seeing two doctors with him there waiting for me !

The way I see it, and even the way the family counselor explains it: the two of us are a team, we're in it together. I look at the addiction stuff as a medical problem and Im not making up a whole bunch of special rules for myself because its an addiction and I have to be angry, bitter, or change the way I do things in our relationship. Im right where I want to be, and you know what? Its not been easy this past year, but challenges make a person stronger, and Im using this experience to become a better and stronger version of me.

buttercup89

Well said Bluechair!

BlueChair

Hi Opio,

I appreciate your posts very much. I certainly cant speak for all family members but I have never truly felt responsible for my husbands addiction, or felt like it was possible for me to fix it. I feel like addiction is a medical problem: physical, mental, emotional and like most medical problems theres not a lot I can do because is happening on the "inside" of him. Right now I feel like whats going on is depression and anxiety not even specific to to the drug use. So its like Im not behaving with him any different than I would if he was depressed and anxious and never had any past drug use. I dont know how to explain it except Im not making up special rules for myself because of the drugs. We have these great doctors we work with who reinforce a "team" mentality and I feel really confident Im on the right track. Plus overall I feel at peace, and our marriage is still happy and loving.

Influence is a really important thing. Sometimes we take it too lightly but it helps shape and mold who we are. I think we're influenced by everything around us: people, places, things. Close relationships allow for a lot of influence. Couples in a marriage have a lot of influence with their partner, at least I think so.

I guess where I get confused. If my husband had heart disease then I would use my influence to encourage him to live a healthy lifestyle, visit his doctor regularly. I might suggest we start walking the dog every night as part of our evening routine for exercise and quality time together. I wouldnt mind calling in his prescriptions, or even picking them up, and I would want to hear what his doctor says about his health. I would also logically know I couldnt force him to take his medications, eat better, or exercise. I can only encourage. Even if he does all these things he could still have a heart attack. It doesnt mean he did anything wrong because theres stuff going on inside he cant completely control. If he has a heart attack it wouldn't be because of me either and I wouldn't feel responsible.

However, if in the days leading up to the heart attack I noticed he was feeling bad, saw warning signs of a heart attack, knew from previous conversations with his doctor this means come in and get checked out, go to the ER. Lets say he was in denial and says Im fine, it will go away, its nothing. Again I can use my influence and say lets talk about this and remember what the doctor said, I think you need to get this checked out, Im going to call your doctor and explain what is see. I think these are normal reactions. To sit back and say well its all up to him is wrong. When Im informed, and have instructions from his doctor already in place telling me what to do, then I have failed to some degree by not following through with even a phone call to the doctor.

And this is what I meant when I said I felt like I failed. We have plans in place with the help of his doctor. And where I feel I had a problem was I didnt take the signs of anxiety seriously enough. You guys wouldnt know because I didnt post about it, but I saw a progression of symptoms for a couple weeks. I did talk to him, and he says going over the conversation we had together made him realize something was off in his thinking and he got scared. So I did influence him, but I wish I had called his doctor and been more diligent because what if he hadnt made the call and asked for help. If he couldnt pick an ice cream when confronted with all the choices, its not reasonable to expect him to make major life decisions at a moment like that.

All this is only about his situation, not anyone else's. Im not trying to say people arent capable of thinking logically or making their own choices or anything. Im only talking about this specific situation with the anxiety. Trying to explain why I said what I did.

I may have got off track here, sorry if I did. Opio always get me to thinking !! I can see me and you working on some giant universal puzzle together Opio, it would be a blast !!

Tiredofdrugs

I whole heartedly agree with you! And to add to your post. I saw this article today and wanted to share with those that think otherwise!

TOD

Keith Urban: "Very blessed" that wife Nicole Kidman staged an intervention | Story | Wonderwall

BlueChair

Thank you TOD good read. We did an intervention for my husband originally. He went missing when he was using and the police were involved and his parents even hired someone to help us find him, his best friends got involved and helped tracked him down. He was really sick when it happened and in the hospital we all had to convince him because he said he wanted to stop but also just wanted to go home. Anyway, its what got him into rehab and once there he stuck with it. He had this bad infection because there was a pre-existing problem with stomach ulcers and one perforated. The doctor said if he hadnt got help he would have died because he was too sick and using too much to even know he was being gobbled up by this infection spreading. Sorry so graphic but none of this stuff is pretty

Tiredofdrugs

So many correct answers in the posts! And Blue you used the scenario I was going to use with the example of the heart disease!

I just want to point out something to those that have forgotten or didn't know this! When a person is in active addiction - that DOC is their new love! Everyone and everything else just goes to the wayside. Remember the honeymoon period we all have been in when a new relationship was started? Well it's the same with our DOC! When the love relationship is broken - we are lost and confused! Of course we have our friends and family around us for support, but it just isn't the same thing. We have to get over the lost love affair! And because our DOC is more of a chemical thing in our bodies and not just a person walking out of our lives? It's 10x's worse on us!

My mom doesn't take anything addictive or has ever smoked in her life. She's 76 years old. She has a hard time understanding addiction. So the way I've explained it to her to help her understand is this: Give your coffee up and see how you feel! She managed it two days and went back to drinking her coffee! LOL That made her realize what addicts are living with. And for two days I stayed away from her because she was a bear! We are all addicted to something of some kind.

The dopamine in our brains needs that good feeling to find other things to keep us happy and comfortable. That's the thing a person has to figure out - what it is besides their DOC. When a spouse is being all blame the addict for the marriages problems? It just makes the addict trying to cope w/o their DOC that much harder. We are trying to get back to being a functioning person in the family and want to put the past behind us. Not relive it over and over because of our spouse pointing fingers in our face and doing the blame game on us. We know we did wrong things because of our DOC we were taking. We are very sorry for those days and want to start over, make the marriage enjoyable again and move on. Hell! Half of the stuff that happened we don't even remember due to being messed up.

We don't expect our loved ones to just forget and move on! What happened in our relationship while we were in using mode is a chapter in our lives that needs to be closed and a new one started. Strong love will win out in the end. If a person wants to continue using and forget about ever getting better? Then it's time to separate.

In your husbands case Blue? He's really trying to stay clean. He has one hell of a battle going on within himself though. He seems to be on the fence line right now though too! When he took that out of state trip it put him back in a frame of mind of the old days. The good times!

It makes me happy to read his job is onboard with his recovery as well as a good team of doctors looking out for him too. Not many get that help! As for the ice cream chose? I've stood there in front of that cooler for awhile myself! LOL The world is getting too confusing even for a sane person! Just try to pick out something out of the Campbells Soup section! You'll be there awhile trying to get the right one!

TOD

dblightstream

Blue, it sounds to me like you are doing everything right. He is learning to make decisions for himself, and that is good. That is recovery. My best to both of you!