S00602407

Hi everyone. I'm Dana and this is my first post. I just wanted some input about sub experience from some veterans. I have been using opiate painkillers (for no good reason other than to self-medicate) for about 3.5 years. My habit has now topped out at around 300+mg/day. Back in August my husband finally busted me and forced me into a ct detox that lasted about 4 days and I relapsed at the first opportunity. We had a fight, which is in fact my biggest trigger, and I dealt with it the same way I have been for years. He suffers from combat-related PTSD and the rage and irrational fighting is always bestowed upon me. There's no reasoning with it, there's no warning, it's just blindsiding earth-shattering destruction and hatred that is in no way tied to anything I've done or could have controlled. It lasts about 3 days before he comes back down to earth and realizes how crazy he's being and the only thing I can do is get over it and move on - knowing that in 4-6 weeks it'll happen again. It's not his fault that he has this disease, and it's not his fault that I have this disease, but I started taking painkillers to self-medicate. Somewhere in my mind I felt like if I had this secret and I was in fact doing something wrong then I somehow deserved the abuse on some level and I could justify it. He doesn't know that I've relapsed or that I'm starting suboxone. I feel like his reaction will drive me towards continued use and I don't yet have the tools to deal with that trigger in any other way. Vicious. Cycle.

Anyway, fast-forward to today. Everything I've read says that you should abstain for 24 hours before starting sub. I met with a counselor on Tuesday who evaluated me and laid out the program for me. She told me I only needed to abstain for 12 hours? I don't usually take anything after 10pm or else I can't sleep and I usually don't take my first round until 11am or later so the 12 hours doesn't seem too difficult but I am worried that in itself will cause a problem. I did a little trial run Tuesday night / Wednesday morning and found that it took 15 hours for very moderate onset of wd symptoms such as mild stomach cramping, sweating, anxiety etc. I am going to try and abstain for that long or longer before my appointment but my question is has anyone else been told this amount of time? Again, everything I've seen is 24-72 hours which to me seems like full blown WD? Any advice or experience is much appreciated. Thanks for reading.

cleaninalabama

Hey Dana-

Congrats on your decision to get off the opiates. I am currently on subs from a 300+ mg/day oxy habit. It has changed my life and i have been clean for over 4 months now. Yu should talk to the doctor about whether 12 hours is long enough. I have no doubt it varies from person to person. Just wanted to wish you luck.

cleaninLI

Hi Dana, Sub vet here! 12 hours does not seem long enough. I'm surprized that's what your doctor said. I'm no expert but I was told to wait 24 to 48 hours. I think I was inducted at 48 hours. I was very sick a few hours after my first dose. I think it was because my doctor prescribed a huge amount. When I reduced the amount I felt better. If you are unsure of what your doctor suggested you can call the hotline on suboxone.com. They might also have online support. If you do decide to start at 12 hours I hope you take a small amount just in case. You don't want precitated WD. Those I hear are really nasty!

So sorry about what you have to go through with your husband. That's awful! Can he see a therapist that could help him with his PTSD? I've heard that they have some really good therapies out there now that really help those who suffer from PTSD. Is his PTSD combat related? Does he self- medicate? Many who suffer do. There is a friends and family section on this forum that helps people overcome codependency. It seem like you could benefit from some of the info in the stickies at the top of that page. Check them out! You CAN NOT allow his sickness to make you sick! That's no good! In order to recover from your addiction you need to illuminate those triggers which make you want to use. Please think about YOU! What do YOU need to get well and be happy in your life! YOU deserve it!

mkintexas

Dana,

There is no set time on suboxone induction. Everyone is different. Here is the deal with sub. It latches on to the same receptors as oxy. But it only partially activates them where as oxy and hydro FULLY activate them. You need to be at a point where the remaining activity from hydro for oxy is below the level of opiate activity that buprinorphine can provide.

Think if it this way. Your brain is a car. Let's say oxy is a driver. When oxy drives it punches the gas and takes you to 100mph. But it is short acting. Oxy lets off the gas and the car starts to slowly slow down. In an hour you are at 90. 2 hours 80. 4 hours 70. As the speed gets slower and slower you start to feel withdrawal. First it starts with cravings then as the car gets slower and slower more withdrawals. When the car reaches stop that is your max withdrawal point

Now. Suboxone is another driver. Sub drives the car at 30mph only. It can not go faster. If you take suboxone when your car is going 70. Suboxone will SLAM on the brakes and take you from 70 to 30 in seconds. So instead of gradually building up your withdrawal you are hit with it instantly. That is precipitated withdrawal..

The idea is to wait until your car is traveling at 30mph or less. Ideally I of you are traveling at 25mph and suboxone starts to drive you will increase your speed (opiate activity) and your brain will be satisfied and your withdrawal stop.

The BIG issue. Everyone's car goes from 100mph down to 30 using a different amount of time.

Google COWS for opiate withdrawal. A lot of people say get to 26. When I induced at 23 hours I was not at a 26. But I was fine. I think people suggest 26 to be VERY VERY sure you won't go into precip WD. No one wants that.

Hope this helps.

S00602407

Thanks for all the replies everyone. @CleaninLI: He was seeing a therapist for about a year but the guy quit and so did my husband. That was probably 4 years ago. He is supposed to be on antidepressants as well but he doesn't take them. I've asked him, told him, pleaded with him to go back on them but he just doesn't do it regularly. I sympathize with him- he works full time and goes to school full time so he's got a lot on his plate trying to support our family and I respect him for it. He graduates in 8 months so I think it'll be a more reasonable time for him to get back into treatment when he actually has the time to focus on it. He does self-medicate with pot which is a problem but not that bad. I am worried though because he did just get prescribed Vicodin and he has abused them in the past, not nearly to my level though. It's hard though because I can tell when he's on them and it is difficult to see it and not want to do it. I've asked him to hide them from me and not tell me when / where he has them because I've taken them in the past. I will check out the codependency area though, thanks for the suggestion. I made a decision years ago when he was diagnosed that I wouldn't have left him if he lost his legs or was burned or blown up and I'm not going to leave him because of this injury. He was enlisted when we married and I made a commitment knowing the risks. We are not responsible for having these diseases but we are both responsible for how we treat them. I have to focus on mine and face it before I have any right to hold him accountable for his.

@mkintexas: Very good analogy with the car - but I can't drive stick for ****. Literally drove my brother's car into a house trying to back it out of the driveway. "Ease off, ease on" just does not compute in my head or my feet apparently.

cleaninLI

I understand and that's very admirable. I only mentioned those things because you had said that his PTSD is the main reason why you used. As they say "if nothing changes nothing changes."

I do wish the best for you both. Hope that you guys can get healthy together!

mkintexas

You are in luck the analogy works for automatic transmission as well

S00602407

Hey everyone just checking in- took my first sub at about 11:30am today and I am currently 21.25 hours sober. I feel pretty good- just some mild stomach cramping but I'm in total disbelief I've gone this long without a pill and am standing. Thank science this is a miracle treatment! Also attending IOP 3x a week so the rest is up to me. Don't think I could do this on my own.

A follow-up on the abstinence question: I refrained from using for only 13 hours and no PW.

cleaninLI

That's wonderful! Great job! So happy for you! Do you mind if I ask how many mgs you took?

S00602407

Of subs or pills? The subs 8mg / 2x daily. So two strips. Of pills normally - 300-600mg/daily.

My dealer texted me like 5 times today trying to get me to buy pills or sell the subs but of which I declined for the first time in god knows how long. He wished me luck but clearly hopes I keep paying his rent. Felt good to not need it. Felt great to be annoyed by his messages instead of elated. God I hope for the strength to keep this going. But today is officially day one of my one day at a time.

S00602407

OH! And hubby said he does want to get back into treatment for his PTSD soon. Hopefully my journey will inspire him.

cleaninLI

Wow, good job! Please block that number! You did a good job though! You are on your way to a clean and awesome life! So happy hubby wants to change too! You are so right that when you change those around you change too!

S00602407

Thank you.. Being able to come here for support is so helpful. I hate public speaking and speaking about myself face to face so this is really great for me and you guys are awesome. I can't thank you enough for caring about a total stranger.

cleaninLI

You're welcome! You have no idea how much your posts are helping others out there too! Someone, somewhere is struggling, so tired of being controlled by those horrible pills, but can't stop. Then they come here to sr and read your thread and say to themselves. "Hey, if she can do this so can I!" See you've inspired someone today!

S00602407

Well it's day 2. I had some mild stomach cramping yesterday that felt more like gas pains ( sorry I know that's not lady like ) but today I woke up feeling pretty positive. I'm up and dressed which doesn't usually happen because I work from home and my addiction has allowed and encouraged my isolation. I had minimal cravings yesterday that were more habitual than physical. That evil voice in my head that would say "start looking" seemed to have gone away. It was replaced with a voice that sounded similar to my own saying "well sh**, what am I gonna do with my time and money now?" Lol good problems to have. My dealer texted me like 5 times yesterday trying to get me to buy or sell him my subs. He told me to just take pills in the morning and then take a sub later when I felt sick. Yea dude, sure that sounds exactly like what the dr said. Jerk. I paid that dudes rent for the next year with everything I've bought lately so he can go to hell at this point. For me to turn down an offer is unheard of. It's an absolute miracle that would never have happened without suboxone. I don't know how it gave me that strength but I assume this is what a normal, non-addict feels when they're offered drugs. Instead of "hell yea!" It's replaced with "why would you even ask me that?" It's incredible to feel that overnight after so many years of heavy addiction. I feel optimistic about my life. I feel free to make plans without the fear of "will I have enough pills?" Or "will I be in forced withdrawal and too sick to go?" I feel like I have my life back and everything in it is no longer secondary to finding, financing and using. Two days ago I was hopeless and skeptical to whether this would work. I doubted there was any way I'd feel better without years of therapy and crippling dope sickness. I will attend IOP on Monday a believer and maybe ready to speak instead of just listen in fear. I do hope this helps someone like you said. I wasn't a believer but now I am proof. I could dance I'm so happy and grateful. Ill keep posting my journey. Thank you all for reading, for your words of encouragement and for not judging me.

cleaninLI

Awe beautiful post! I'm so happy for you! You are on your way to a new and wonderful life! Just think you never have to feel dope sick again! Tell us about IOP tommorrow!

S00602407

Wow. I'm 72.75 hours clean right now. Today felt like a normal day almost. I woke up early and got myself ready while my 6 month old was still sleeping. He's had a cold for the last week and I called the dr to just check to make sure everything's ok. I took him in (he's fine btw) and did things like call my insurance company and actually worked in a focused manner instead of whatever I felt like until I could go score. I took responsibility for things that normally would not have been my first priority. Excluding my son I would have taken care of him either way but would have been high. typically I would sleep as late as possible just to get a few extra hours of not using. I would have stayed in my pjs until I had to go buy something. I wouldn't have made dinner. I would have run around to clean up any evidence or panicked when my husband came home early. Today I got stuff done.

At IOP we talked more about anger and communication. Our group leader asked if we have problems standing up for ourselves or being assertive. Everyone in their own context said they do - because they either don't want to draw attention to themselves and their addiction or because of their addiction they feel they aren't entitled to feel say or do anything. I thought it was interesting we all felt the same. It's still really hard for me to talk without crying, so I like to just listen more than anything. Not looking forward to my one on one counseling Thursday. IOP group is 3 hours but 1 on 1 is 45 minutes- however the focus will be on me and that's going to be hard.

I am still habitually craving but not physically. I have to keep the focus on today and right now though. Thinking about forever is too much. I'm grateful for today though.

cleaninLI

So you are doing great! Wow, waking up early, taking care of business, cooking dinner, going to IOP! All wonderful clean and sober things! Your group topic sounds very interesting. I can relate to that as well.

S00602407

It's amazing how much we isolate in addiction and how alike such different people are. I am truly humbled by this experience. I have felt alone for a long time and I wish I would have gotten help sooner. I would have so much freaking money right now lol.

Twofish

Hey! My 19 yr old daughter completed her IOP, 20 days in all,4 days a week, small group, she did it from 1-4pm, then after care for 2 hrs once a week, was the youngest, only girl and only H/opiate abuser. You know what, addiction is addiction, really doesn't matter the DOC, after the w/ds the emotional and cravings part kicks in. She was fine. She especially enjoyed the 1:1 she could cry, laugh and be herself. And she's a very outgoing girl. She reserved herself, yet participated in IOP, but the 1:1 she didn't hold back and she was helped and accepted help freely. Don't worry about 1:1 or IOP. The leaders and therapists and most of the clients have been thru it before. I recall she said the most were for ETOH driving offenses. But she wouldn't say much more, seemed very secretive and none of my business. That's ok with me, you know why??! B/c it's working, she is sober and she is starting to come back to me. If only they would teach her how to clean...joke, sorry. Please smile, feel safe and absorb the knowledge of the tools you will learn about. Keep us posted! Hugs, TF