Marcus

I guess that is why it is important to remember and understand that everyone is different physically and mentally (which I know you said) and most are at different points in their recoveries or addictions for that matter.

I have been on Subs (short and long term) and methadone. I guess similar to you saying you can't understand why someone would take it for more than 90 days others would say why bother if you are taking it short term and not taking it for maintenance. Why not just take the week you are planning to use to get off subs and jump off opiates.

I am in no way saying you should do this or that you have not made the right decision, but just giving you some perspective and to remember to have an open mind. As you said "Long periods on subs messes with your mind and plays games with your thoughts, anxiety, sleep, depression & so forth", but the problem is you have never been on subs for long periods.

For me withdrawals were part of the process and I would take a week of those versus the daily mental struggle and constant cravings I would get for opiates after the withdrawals were over. For others like yourself you said the withdrawals were the hard part. So it is different for everyone.

I don't get people saying sub detox is worse than normal opiates, but I am not saying those people did not experience that. I would take sub detox off 8 mg a day over 2 grams a day of dope any day of the week.

Also I think lots of people are on a pretty high dose, but if you are using it for maintenance to help fight cravings you don't want to be on such a low dose that you still get constant cravings. Plus the blocking effect of the bupe is not as effective at low doses so if you do use you shouldn't really get high which is another reason doctors prescribe a higher dose. It is supposed to help take away the high / reward your brain gets from opiates to help you develop new habits and new ways of dealing with things.

So all of this leads back to doing what is right for you. Talking to a doctor and not getting too caught up in what others say. Find the right doctor which is not always easy and work closely with them. Get outside support. Get back to living / loving life and finding things you enjoy doing.

The depression that came with detox was very real and very debilitating for me so I say Congratulations to anyone who has found their way out no matter what method they use(d). It doesn't have to be a death sentence although I had many weeks and months where it felt like it. Now 16+ months clean from everything I am so grateful I didn't give up and that I had resources / options that didn't exist a few decades ago.

YesImReady

Never being on Subs before and only going by the research I have done
My answer is I hope that the Wd's from Subs will be of a lesser discomfort than that of the Oxy's

I felt there was very little chance of my success of making it thru WD's off of oxy's being that I had tried it ct before ,, I did get close though ,, so if I'm right and the wd's from Subs is any less at all then I will make it.

I hope that answers why I'm not using a week to kick Oxy's but willing to use a week to kick Subs

Oh and Congrats on your 16 months ,, I can't wait until I'm there with you.
Also know that EVERY DAY I'm learning more than I knew about this disease yesterday ,, with that learning my attitude changes but always in a good way I hope

Marcus

I understood your reasoning and it makes perfect sense. I was just pointing out that what works for one might not work for another. I think your main concern was lots of people on the board saying how tough of a time they were having getting off subs. I would just say don't let it scare you. I guarantee if you are determined and truly want recovery you will find it. You really can accomplish anything when you put your mind to it. Your mind can sabotage you as well, but it sounds like you are well on your way. Good Luck!

cleaninLI

Hey Marcus, just want say glad to see you on these boards again! How r u doing?

Glad to see u too yesimready,take care.

cleaninLI

How are you yesimready haven't heard from you? Let us know.

YesImReady

cleaninLI ,, I'm doing fantastic , working lots of hours this week other than that everything is great , looking forward to the weekend that is for sure.
I just want to sleep in past 5 am once

cleaninLI

I hear you! That's great your making MONEY! Money that won't be wasted on pills! Yeah! You will have to take "Too" out for dinner over the weekend. As a matter of fact maybe the whole "yesimready" family! You can afford it now. Lol Nice to hear from you. Take care.

Getwhatugive

Hey yesimready!, I hope u & the wife are doing well today, & my sincere congratulations for taking the plunge to get/stay off the dreaded opiates. I'm impressed w ur plan man!, and I admire ur tenacity-I can only wish I was able to just use the Subs to detox-only, for such a short period of time. (Waitt til I tell u how (way too) long I've been on the time-consuming/attitude-adjusting Maintenance med.) So, a few things to think about & look into if, & when u have time to: I know someone said Subs were originated for early w/drawl only but, the research, doctors, many experiences, and evidence does point in the direction
that shows longer Sub use (Not way too long) gives our delicate brains more time to heal, giving addicts like us a greater chance for success (Abstinence). In addition, after such heavy Opiate abuse, like yours & mine, even w super-strong willpower & a month of painkiller abstainance, there Will likely be w/drawl symptoms still. *As I always promise, I Am in No Way trying to distract, or deject u or any1 else's willpower & Progress in any ways whatsoever-I'm just saying we've abused narcotics for very long times and it can be very beneficial if nothing else, to look into some of the helpful supplements etc to assist in the nasty, frustrating, Relapse-causing w/drawl effects. Thank u for ur's, & the many others' excellent positive , honest posts..theyve really inspired me in a lot of ways, I appreciate it. I only have cell phone internet access at this time, u can prob see I'm having difficulties entering my post, my phone keeps ringing etc..I'm new here, so I don't know all the exact rules, but I'll plan on submitting some positive evidence a lil later on, & will continue to try to help others here, in an attempt to help myself, & my own demons. Thanks again everyone for everythin U've taken ur busy to submit, I hophope & pray u have great, clean days. Peace.

YesImReady

Look forward to your future post Getwhatugive , I never detox using Subs or any program in the past so anything I post is just my thoughts , dreams & hopes of a successful detox using Subs. If I am successful or not I will continue to post our results in hopes to educate others that come after myself & hopefully give them another tool to help with their decision of which path they may choose. So whether I'm right or wrong with my approach it will still be another honest story for others to weigh in their future decisions and that is all I can offer at this time. Good luck to me with mine & too every one else that is starting down the path to recovery.

I believe we learn not just from success stories but those that fail too
I just pray that mine this time is one of success , but if not I will own up and post that too

Getwhatugive

Youre the man yesimready. Im telling u ur inspiring me & my latest Sub taper. U & ur wife know whats best for u guys, and u both can do anything w ur positive attitudes & strong desire to clear yourselves of the Opiates, just like how uve continued to beat all those other drugs, for Years now. I really know u can do it, and I'll be right nxt to u pushing thru my own addiction, that I've failed to cease so many times, for years now.

While I'm at it I could mention there are a few things that helped ease quite a bit of the craving/w/drawl pain. When I grew up we rarely had access to healthy, Fresh foods. It took me a long time to realize how beneficial eating healthy actually is. (Not even thinkin about preaching-I can't stand that myself, and Im not that kind of guy!) But u know, fresh fruits, vegatables, Proteins in particular feed and replenish the brain. Taking a multivitamin and a few other supplements helped me, like how CleaninL (I think) mentioned the "Calm" suppplement. More recently I started taking 5htp for anxiety/insomnia issues & that helped, but my most recent test has been w GABA POWDER. *Now just like how I always say what I write are just ideas from my own experiences etc, same applies here-because a lot of what I try/take is controversial, and not approved by the FDA. But I'm an addict, who's tryin to get and stay clean, and I've always experimented in a lot of ways, just now my intentions are much healthier than my partying yrs. I'll try copying and pasting a few links w my cell again soon so u guys can see what u think. Stay cool, peace.

Getwhatugive

I need to post 10 more times until I can submit potentially beneficial links. Here's 1, I will be back asap. Peace!

pride74

YesImReady, please don't go anywhere your post alone actually helped me so much. I started on subs last Tuesday July 23rd in detox, I was so terrified to trade one thing for another but something had to give. I decided that I would not go up like the Dr wanted, he wanted me to start off on one 2 mg, then go to 4 mg then up to 8 mg. I personally chose to stay at 2 mg, three times a day for a few days and now I am trying the 2 mg two times a day. I got a little discouraged yesterday because up until then I was feeling amazing and the horror that I worked out that my withdrawel would be wasn't anything at all. Then yesterday I just felt horrible all day but then I did some more research and read that with a methadone detox it peaks on or about the 7th or 8th day, that made me feel a lot better in thinking that yesterday was actually one week to the day that I had my last dose of methadone and I actually chose that day to taper and that's probably why I was feeling so bad. I plan to God willing only be on subs for no more then 14-15 days and your taper schedule helped me sooo much, because before that I was just searching everywhere for something anything that I could find that was actually working for someone else. I know methadone is a little different then pain killers but I am hoping that since I was only on it for 4 1/2 months that it wont be so bad. As long as I can get through the really rough stages of the detox I can do the small aches and pains standing on my head.
It is so sad what some other people are going through and three weeks ago I was for the first time in my 38 years of life thinking horrible thoughts that when I think about how far I've come since that day I cant even imagine feeling that way again. I am so happy for you and your wife, it sounds like you totally have this in your control rather then the other way around. Yesterday I went grocery shopping and while I was buying some fruits and veggies and vitamins that my 17 year old son asked me to pick up I remember thinking how wonderful it felt to be able to spend my money on the stuff we need/want as a family rather then driving all over the place looking for something to spend my very last dime on and then be broke and looking again the very next day and making up excuses as to why my children had to go without. I have felt so guilty about the things I have done over the past 4 1/2 months but I have to keep telling myself that all I can do is move forward, looking back is never the answer.

Thank you & God Bless

YesImReady

pride74 , thank you for your post ,, talk about encouraging. I'm so happy for you and so glad your off of methadone , I have only tried methadone a couple of times when there were no Oxy's around but I hear some real horror stories about coming off them. Much worst than the Oxy's ,, both my wife & I are doing great on the Subs. She started her taper yesterday & I pray she has an easy of time as I did getting down the first couple of steps. Don't worry I will keep on posting when I have a chance , I'm actually at work right now and only have 45 min. to get a very quote out so I have to stop here. Keep , keeping up :-)
And God Bless you too and that goes for everyone that has taken that first scary step

cleaninLI

Hi yesimready, glad to see your post. That's great to know you haven't had any wds from your taper. I hope "too" is doing well also. Write more when you get the chance.

christin1225

Yes... When I tapered off Sub, I never felt the reduction for the first two-three days of the taper. Because I had read that I would feel no difference with higher reductions (anything over 6mg), I was surprised when I did. But, when I did feel the reduction, it still was very do-able.

A few times, the nausea was fairly intense (but I never vomited) and, mostly it was intermittent (not nearly as bad as morning sickness can be and that's considered to be a good sign ). The sweats were annoying but nothing that required a change of clothes. The anxiety was nothing more than heart palpitations and the slightest of restlessness. There was a little digestive adjustment to be made (but, having fought constipation on high doses for quite some time, I didn't mind).

So, as you can see, it's NO WHERE NEAR as horrible as full-blown withdrawal from a full agonist. The symptoms probably are somewhat comparable to what it would be like to s-l-o-w-l-y taper off a full agonist. But, most of us can't do that. We start to taper and then, bam, we take twice as much as our taper schedule allowed or we start the taper in the morning and, by afternoon, we've used to get high and resolve (again and again) to start a taper tomorrow. That's the "miracle" aspect of Suboxone. An addict can actually taper off the stuff!

When I tapered, I wanted NO withdrawal symptoms whatsoever and I struggled with feeling confident that I would be able to stay clean once my receptors weren't blocked. So, I focused a bit too much on any symptom that came my way and, at times, would let it discourage me. So, I think that attitude definitely is key.

Good luck to you (and to your too)!

BeFree4good

Awesome and congrats on your quitting. Suboxone was suppose to be used at treatment centers only when it first came out. Then you can see that changed. But being in a good positive frame of mind and being prepared in your head with a great outlook about what your doing. If you keep telling yourself "oh my God this is gonna be so bad!" Well you know how that turns out most of the time. We create our own little hell before we really even get started. So you sound like your really doing well! Just keep that go kick ass attitude and believe me your gonna do great.Exercise and staying busy really really helped me a lot.I'm a professional lifter so I stayed on em for awhile. Mentally I had a lot of guilt and remorse about my past. After going to meetings and getting involved it wasn't as bad coming off of em as it would have since I didn't know how to cope with life really at all so getting help with that and being more motivated and my self esteem was so much higher. Life is just so much better now so quitting the subs was great because I was so excited becoming this new person and having friends and I mean REAL friends that really will help you. I've become what i would like to think as one of these people to others as well. Keep pushing forward and you'll do great! Keep fighting the good fight and I hope it keeps getting better for you!!!

YesImReady

Thanks Christin , I love your reply and shared it with my wife too , man I have to get her to post as little more often. Posting is easy for me because I'm on the internet all day long with my job & I belong to many other message boards for fantasy football , boxing & horse racing. We both are doing great on the Subs so far and haven't had any problems with the taper yet ,, I will admit I'm still waiting for it to because extremely uncomfortable the last couple of weeks because that is what I have read so many others tell us it will become. You know what if it does it does. We are ready for it , it can not even come close to what CT WD's from Oxy's would of been. So if we have to deal with a couple of weeks of feeling like crap to get to the other side of this ,,, than no big deal we will deal with it. I just really enjoy the encouraging words I hear form yourself , BeFree4Good & all the others that have posted here with encouragement. I have no doubt whatsoever that we would of made anyways but it sure helps to go thru this with all of you that are doing it now and those of you that have done it already. Life is good right now and I only see it getting better. So if I have to pay a couple of weeks of cramps , nausea and not a full night of sleep for a life time of sobriety ,,, sign me up

Rdphish

It sounds like a great taper. But no matter what, we must pay up. The jump to no subs will be surprisingly rough. I have tried 2 week tapers and still had a relatively rough time when I jumped. Right now I'm coming off a month long heroin binge (bundle a day) and I've decided to do a 3 day taper and see what the difference is.
Personally I don't agree with Suboxone maintenance. But it's great for detox. Good luck!

YesImReady

Wow 3-day taper that is more than I would want to try , I planned as you read a 27 day taper but that has been extended an extra week. So far both my wife & I are doing great and still waiting for the tough part which I'm sure will come IF it does about 3-days after I jump.

I wish you all the luck and will pray for you but am very curious as to why only a 3-day taper ?

Rdphish

I decided to try it because I've been to many detox centers/hospitals etc and every time, the detox is like 3-4 days for opiates then I'm released....feeling kinda ******, but nothing like cold turkey. I felt horrible after many longer Sub tapers (weeks)...so I want to see if I feel any different doing it much shorter. We shall see. I am 44 hours since my last bag of H....I took an 8mg Sub yesterday that was a bitch before it kicked in and made me feel somewhat normal....today I took a 4mg...went out for a walk...don't feel horrible. So far so good but I am not outta the woods yet.
My last relapse was about a 5 week heavy H run...so I'm hoping only going out for 5 weeks, this wont hurt too bad!