mialicious

Hello. I'm new here. I've been browsing through some heroin and methadone recovery posts. I started using heroin about 4 years ago, before that strong prescription opiates given by my doctor. January 31st of last year, I started methadone maintenance at a local clinic. The need to get off heroin came sudden & great. My man& I use to sell large quantities of heroin to support our addiction. Our house, family houses and distant unrelated person's homes were all raided at the same time. Not wanting to perpetuate my sickness, my addiction, and the basic and overbearing need to be a provider& mother was my driving force. So my husband and I had checked into a local methadone clinic 2 days before the raids (ironic, right?). We both hadn't ever been in any legal trouble before the raids. We did as much heroin that we could fit into a spoon,usually. We moved up the methadone does rapidly but not quick enough. Our last day of four use was 4/29/12. We paid our clinic dues, made great relationships with the counselors and eventually got our 6 day take homes by 11/2012 per mmt federal guidelines. But since August, since we had 1 day take homes, we were saving half our dose so we could quit without paying $11 per day @ the clinic (we used to have plenty of $ before we were raided). The will to quit all opioid use is definitely apparent and more true than ever. Now that I have had the "opportunity" to feel "normal" for about a year. We stopped going to our clinic just over a month ago (1/16/13). We have both been detoxing ourselves since August 2012. I really started going below half my dose (150mg to 75mgs) in November 2012 as I was confident I could slip some of my full dose of 150mgs in a cup or on the floor out of the administering nurses sight. I moved down 5mgs from 75mgs every 3 or 4 days since November. I didn't have any withdrawal symptoms whatsoever until I stopped below 20mgs. I'm currently@ 2mgs, this is my 5th day on 2mgs. I stayed on 3mgs for 6 days. I dose around the same time each day, around 1pm so I can fall asleep at night. Staying asleep is another story. Today is the worst I've felt in a long time. I'm yawning so much my face hurts, can't stop stretching, muscle aches, sneezing, runny nose, sleeplessness. My husband is at 20mgs and detoxing 2mgs ever couple days. I'm ready to end this horrible demon called opiates. Never again. Although I say that I fantasize of the relief it has provided me so long and get jealous of my "past self" as a user. Literally, everything from the high to the energy, the fix and the sickness; yet would never go back to heroin or any opioid for that matter, as I despise all its done to me, my family, my life. That relief is just what I need to get through another 11-14 hours (on my low methadone dose)...not high, never "high" or euphoria on methadone, only "normal" and functioning well without cravings. Please feel free to provide your methadone experience, how you quit. How long it took, your weaning process, etc. I despise methadone but I will give it credit for enabling me to be without dope cravings, allowing me to instill a form of normalcy back into our lives. Also you can measure it...unlike black tar heroin, you'll never know the actual opiate amount for to the cutting agents and therefore can never "cut back." (Sorry for the lengthy post, folks) -Mia

peanut44

Okay,

I have never used heroin, thank God, and have never taken pill killers stronger than Percocet but i still managed to end up at a methadone clinic....

I abused vicodin up to 18-20 a day for quite a few years. Finally decided to quit, went into a supervised detox for a week. Lots of valium which i also like, then a week or so after that, then an in patient for 30 days.

Came out of it pretty cocky, not knowing that the worst was yet to come.

A couple of months out of rehab, i mention to a relative that i had been having cravings. His doctor prescribes him methadone for pain and he has heard its good for cravings too.

One thing leads to another and before i knew it, i was abusing methadone for 2 weeks and going thru horrible withdrawals until he got his next prescription.

And oh was i sick often!!!

After several years of this and a huge falling out with my family because of it, i signed up for a local methadone clinic.

Not really clean in my opinion but a heck of a lot better than the way i was living. I have NEVER stolen, forged a script or got it from anyone other than a family member or a doctor.

Highest dose was 65mgs. Got down about 25 mgs. And started having some problem s. This was tapering about 2.5 mgs. down every week.

Went to a doc/shrink and he decided to help me. I was getting 30 days worth of take homes at a time but we moved and there was not a clinic in sight.

I tapered to about 5 mgs. then every other day and thought i had it done but that wasn't the case. After about 3 days i couldn't stand it anymore.

Restless legs, yawning, sneezing all day, runny nose, diarrhea, chills, aching ALL over and a scary over abundance of saliva production. Mix all that with no sleep for days on end and i was a mess.

Doc gave me ativan and blood pressure meds for a 2 week period. That got me over the hump and i was able to kick methadone. Never to go back.

Broke my foot, got back on vicodin, now I'm here.

Once you get off of that crap, never go back. It's all downhill after those L.P.withdrawals..... in my opinion

peanut44

P.S.

hot baths really felt good. And eat right. Key things that kept me healthy

mialicious

Thanks peanut. I hope to overcome this. I hope you do as well. I had hoped that as low of a dose I'm on that I could just "walk off" the sh*t. However, this is the most deceptively powerful opiate aside from heroin. Problem being there is no "upward tolerance" of opiates use
Meaning you can escalate your "need" which is what leads to many who have quit or stopped, to od. Methadone attaches itself into your fat cells & tissue prolonging your "fix" without multiple daily fixes or intravenous fixes.. All our quitting agents, like suboxone, subutex, muscle relaxers, clonodine & xanax were taken in the raid. I've been using high protein (green vibrance & green protein shakes, b vitamins, calcium, minerals, and a multi vitamin) as a nutrition aid,as well as eating and feeding my family right. No other substances.
Sorry to hear you are back on opiates, brother. It's truly a heavy unyielding path. Opiates rape the soul and make slaves of your family and other otherwise do-gooders. I'm not trying to be a hypocrite, just here to recite fair warning of impending doom. As you seem to share the same vice as me.. this is Doom I'm still struggling to repel at great cost. Doom you've recovered from but have wound back upon. Please forgive my bluntness. As we both know methadone will do the same number on your soul in longer periods of time making you think you are normal. It has only been about a a month of low doses that I have realized this. I'm in no way "out of the woods", as the sickness of such doom in creeping back into reality after a prolonged hiatus.

mialicious

Thanks peanut. I hope to overcome this. I hope you do as well. I had hoped that as low of a dose I'm on that I could just "walk off" the sh*t. However, this is the most deceptively powerful opiate aside from heroin. Problem being there is no "upward tolerance" of opiates use
Meaning you can escalate your "need" which is what leads to many who have quit or stopped, to od. Methadone attaches itself into your fat cells & tissue prolonging your "fix" without multiple daily fixes or intravenous fixes.. All our quitting agents, like suboxone, subutex, muscle relaxers, clonodine & xanax were taken in the raid. I've been using high protein (green vibrance & green protein shakes, b vitamins, calcium, minerals, and a multi vitamin) as a nutrition aid,as well as eating and feeding my family right. No other substances.
Sorry to hear you are back on opiates, brother. It's truly a heavy unyielding path. Opiates rape the soul and make slaves of your family and other otherwise do-gooders. I'm not trying to be a hypocrite, just here to recite fair warning of impending doom. As you seem to share the same vice as me.. this is Doom I'm still struggling to repel at great cost. Doom you've recovered from but have wound back upon. Please forgive my bluntness. As we both know methadone will do the same number on your soul in longer periods of time making you think you are normal. It has only been about a a month of low doses that I have realized this. I'm in no way "out of the woods", as the sickness of such doom in creeping back into reality after a prolonged hiatus.

peanut44

I'm currently off the vicodin but it hasn't been for very long.

Opiates are pretty awful... wished i had never taken that first one.

Good luck to you. Sounds like you are on the right path. Maybe NA or some other kind of help. I had a sponsor during this time as well.

She was invaluable to me

mialicious

I finally told a close friend about our struggles, actually last night. I don't know if I was feeling emotional about quitting (as I've acted before while detoxing), or if her confessing she has an alcohol problem was the culprit. She mentioned NA or AA. But I refused. Maybe I will, who knows. Being a junkie was such a big secret, many of my closest friends never knew about my addiction as we were able to hide it pretty well. My family only found out after the raids, and not all of them even know. So perhaps help from the outside is just what I need. Maybe that is why I posted here.

mialicious

How long off vicodin?

peanut44

Just a few weeks but I'm not keeping too close an eye on dates. There is too much pressure with it.

It's been tough tho. Hasn't been the best few weeks...... i think about it ALOT more than i should. My mind keeps trying fool me with reasons why i should ask for more.

Trying to be free from opiates has been the longest ongoing battle ever and i hope i have the strength to win it this time.

mialicious

2 weeks is definitely something to celebrate! Having gratitude and staying positive help, until your natural endorphins and dopamine start working properly...creating that natural happiness. One of my good friends, whom we used to use with, dosed her last dose of methadone early January. I reached out to hear to see how she was doing. She said she started feeling better 4 weeks later, and it is getting better every day (That is a report to us from the future)...there is beauty and happiness awaiting. I wish I were as strong as you and my friend *sigh*

Lovey01

Ive been reading your exerperiences with Methadone as I have been in Methadone maintenance for 180 days after using heroin and opana for a couple of years. My boyfriend and i both are on program and wanting to start coming down towards detoxing off and wondering what we were facing. Im very nervous and i was thinking to getting Ativan or xanax to deal with the anxiety and just try to sleep thru it if possible. Have of switching to Suboxone to wean futher off?

mialicious

Hello Lovey. Thanks for sharing your experience. You and your man are 180 days clean of dope or 180 on methadone? What dose? Please try to not stay on it long and only move up if you are sick....not yawning, tired, sleepless. Give it 3-8 days and you'll eventually normalize. Although methadone never got me "high" or euphoric, only tired, sleeping, and nodding off (not high! Just uncontrollable sleepy when we first switched) in public usually 2-6 hours after dosing; it fixed me. I was a normal girl again. It fixed me from the worst kind of intravenous cravings. That was unheard of when I first started to switch..@the time we were detoxing from heroin to methadone, it took us 3 months to end heroin. It's smart to have an exit plan when you switch from dope to methadone if you really want to be done with using, in your heart, soul and body. Done with the addiction, the energy, the high & sickness (then getting yourself off repeatedly after the sickness). methadone should only be used as a tool to quit and only when you are ready to end using altogether, and if you've tried everything else....everything. Thing with clinics is that they are extremely bureaucratic and must abide by strict federal laws. Clinics prefer if you stay there at least 3 years before detox, which would put you over 4 years (if you go their way, sometimes longer) more unhealthy weight gain, bone and enamel torture and erosion and prolonging the inevitable payment to the piper.

Clinics also get heaps and piles of* federal money for proving methadone patients are clean off heroin and pills. And they make money on patients, obviously. I didn't know when I started taking methadone that it took so long to get out of your system, and detoxing was 4-8 day process, making your "washed out phase" another couple weeks to a month, and that's the short side if you take nutrients and take care of your body. Thank the heavens for multi vitamins, b vitamins, protein shakes, amino acids, etc really play a role. Pm me regarding nutrients, my mom is natural nutritionist certified in raw/whole food, herbs, &vitamins. Or visit howtoquitheroincoldturkey.com he gives some good nurturing advise on vitamins, eating, detox, works for all opioid w/d & detox). I didn't know anything about methadone detox when I started.. I only had a need to be off heroin or lose everything, my motherhood, home, daughter, my family, the list of numbed suffering & loss endlessly continues with a soul already gone for being high. as many already, sadly know. until you have nothing you still lose, because you have become a slave, so has all you've ever loved.
As for switching to suboxone from methadone, it is dangerous. With injecting heroin you can take it in tiny doses @22-36 hours after detoxing heroin then one in 7or system, you can increase (my experience, please don't rely on that predominantly. Base it on your own experience. If none, seek a doc)...but with methadone you will throw days of unnecessary precipitated (intensely immense) withdrawals in to your detox. Suboxone removes opioids from your receptors immediately, and if used right can also be a great tool. However, it was never successful, plus all mine were taken in the dea raids. I've quit heroin with suboxone but relapsed each time. It's also more expensive and much harder to get where I am. Im in Albuquerque, NM -open boarder usa (Thank you cartels for enslaving generations to heroin Even using the best possible circumstances, methadone to subs are the worst, most dangerous. But if you switch, you will again, eventually, have to pay the piper.
(Check your pm box) best of luck to you and your bf, Lovey
Please keep me updated as you figure out your exit plan.

Yesterday, 3/6/13, I had to work, felt was more "normalized"on my 2mg dose. I decided since I was feeling ok ...I skipped my dose. That's probably why I'm posting so early in the morning (5:10 pm), and have to wake up at 6. I desperately want to dose but it would mess me all up. UghI don't know what tomorrow holds...I'll try to post weather I dosed or not after work.

mialicious

Just a quick update: My last 2mg dose was Tuesday 3/5/13 @12:30pm!!! I am a bit tired, yawning, watery eyes, no energy. But I think I can do this, its Friday 12:35, so its officially 3 days no dose. Keeping busy really helps take your mind off of it. Driving, working, anything that gets your brain thinking or body moving). Wish me luck

mialicious

Today is day 4 exactly 60.5 hours clean of methadone!!! I actually feel great this morning. I had about a 30 minute craving fit last night, tossing and stretching then went back to sleep. I let both 3mgs then 2mgs normalize in me (6 days each) until I felt better. Detoxing methadone from a low dose is not nearly as bad as heroin, thank the heavens! Heroin just leaves your body too fast and makes you jones out. Methadone doesn't really have a "cliff"...I know that some people usually have bad days until or on day 8 of quitting methadone. But If I feel this good, who knows, maybe I'll make it through that easily too.

mialicious

**I meant 96 hours not 60**

Lovey02

sorry i been away, i had to change screen name because it wouldnt take my damn password. I tried it over and over and even tried resetting it for 2 days i been struggling with it and today decided to just change screen name. Ugh! On top of that i been in bed with extreme pain in my lower back on right side, may be kidneys im not sure but going to ER later cause im sick of laying in bed but pain is too much if i move around. Weird, not sure whats going on with me. But im very proud of u!!!! Please keep me posted. I messed up when i said i been on methadone 180 days, i meant 90, we started clinic on Dec 12th 2012. I been stable at 60 since mid Jan but i need a exit plan and not sure how soon to start?? What do u think?

Lyoness

Thanks for all of your posts. I was hooked on oxy and dilaudid, snorting and injecting, and went on suboxone four months ago. I did as much research as I could and felt like suboxone would be a better choice for me. It has helped in a lot of ways but my expectations were way too high for what it would and would not do for me.

I decided against methadone because I only read horror stories about it but am now considering switching to it for a few reasons. For one the subs doc only does a six month protocol and even he said I may need a longer time on maintenance meds because I was on opiates for so many years. Another thing is that I have chronic pain issues which have already caused me to have slips with morphine--and I didn't waste any time, just went straight to the needle. I know methadone is used to treat pain as well as for helping us addicts.

But I keep reading how hard it is to kick so I don't know what to do. I just know that if my pain continues untreated I will probably be on heroin next and it seems methadone would be better than that. Anyway, I appreciate reading all of your experiences and would appreciate any thoughts you care to share.

Peace

mialicious

Lovey, sorry to hear you haven't been feeling well. Depending on how long you used heroin, opana and/or opioids after. clinics recommend you to be there the equal amount of time at very least. Methadone is not intoxicating or euphoric, but deceptively strong even on a dose of 75mg, even at a dose of.20mgs will give you nods While switching from opiates because it's an intense opiate..and agonist. As you may know, agonists, remove the opiate "feeling" from receptors. Why subs cause precipitated withdrawal, why you have to gradually increase methadone so as to not shock your body and mind. I expected to get sick when first switching but my counselor advise me that I shouldn't have cravings...I laughed but was easily sold given my choices at that time. I had to move from a beiautiful neighborhood, as our neighbors recognized our once beautiful small family were now "traffickers of large quantities heroin." I told my counselor I was afraid to move and get sick. She told me that is most definitely not how I was supposed to feel. I'm still relieved, sickness and pain free. My advice, get to as low a dose as possible (some quit from 10mg, I quit from 2mg) then quit. Evaluate your finances to see how effective your$ will be when detoxing 5mg per day, or whatever -mg. Evaluate how long you've been strung out in opiates. Pills included. Opiates are opiates are opiates. There is no upward tolerance when you keep pushing it. If you quit or stop is when risk of overdosing and death are greater. But opiates numb your mind just as it has your soul, minimizing your ability to steadily think for your own greater benefit. It's a numbness of awe and pain...which I despise greatly but am still "jealous" of (bring clean for 6 days). I was more scared to quit than I should have been. Mental gymnastics is what my husband calls it. Good luck to you, Lovey & Lyoness. Please msg me if ever you have questions or want to share experiences, as a support system is gold. Have you talked to your counselor about quitting methadone? Remember to suspiciously evaluate only yourself as someone who isn't "high" after being over the shock of your alternate opioid. even if you are on methadone...it is as powerful as it is deceptive. Giving me the ability to be "normal" but still have the power in mind and body to quit. I will be exactly 7 days tomorrow Tuesday at 12:30 pm...3/12/13.

RI24

Lyoness,

I've not been on here for some time and looks like i logged on the right day, I've read your post of yesterday and pls pls pls do not choose heroin over Methadone (ideally don't choose either) ..... I know the evils of both and I'd pick METHADONE every time for maintenance.
Hope you doin ok, I'm fairly good, had a couple of slips since xmas but I'm back on the straight and narrow now.
Thanks for your support last year in my very early days of detox.

One day at a time.

Lovey02

Thanks Mia i appreciate your advice more than i can say. It helps knowing what to expect from someone that is a few steps ahead of me in recovery. I think im gonna detox down to 40 mg and hold for a bit then continue to go down.long I seriously doubt i will stay on methadone as I was on opiods but prob most of this year. I only pay a co pay for my meds because i have ins that covers me but my boyfriend and kids have to pay $63 a wk for theirs and are just now ready to phase up to going 5 days a wk instead of 6 so we will have carries and plan to start a stash for when we are ready to exit the clinic. Maybe i should just keep it at 60 so i can afford to lose a little each weekend to stash back.?? But enough about me, Im sooo super excited for u girl, this is HUGE! What an accomplishment and it really is a big deal an amazing turning point in ur life and the start of a new chapter. WOW! How are u feeling ? Please keep me posted it gives me so much hope and im truly whole heartedly extatic that u are doing so well. Oh yes, went to Dr, i thought it was kidneys but it was my spine acting up again, taking ibuprofen and muslce relaxer and heat. This is different for me cause of my back injury i could get opiates forever but its never enough, ya know what i mean and sick of chasing that high!! Its exhausting! Have a great day, TTYL.