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Old 01-15-2017, 01:49 PM
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New to RR...

Hello! I am new to AVRT and after two years of being programmed to think from an AA point of view. I'm trying to realign my thinking but I'm getting stuck a few places.

I am spiritual and I'm not leaving AA because of that. I know AA provided a way to develop spiritually and develop ,y character every day and I'm confused on if I should be continuing this. I continually ask god to give me strength to fix my selfishness, give me strength to be kind, etc. but AVRT tells me that I have the power to do so myself. Any thoughts? Does that even make sense? Lol.

How does RR coexist with spirituality?

Btw, day 5 and I am passed my 3-4 day relapse curse, so I think this emthod id showing early promise! I'm excited.
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Old 01-15-2017, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Deereynolds
I continually ask god to give me strength to fix my selfishness, give me strength to be kind, etc. but AVRT tells me that I have the power to do so myself.
AVRT tells you you have the power to end your addiction. AVRT is not concerned with a design for living. This method assumes you are smart enough and capable enough to 1) end your addiction 2) forge whatever path you wish in life once you end your addiction. If that means asking God to help you with your selfishness/compassion/etc, then that is your chosen path. That has nothing to do with ending your addiction though.

RR doesn't co-exist with spirituality. RR is strictly a means for ending your addiction to substances. Many spiritual/religious people use a secular method to end their addictions. RR is not telling you not to be spiritual or religious, it's telling you not to have spirituality or religion as a contingency to your abstinence.
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Old 01-15-2017, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Deereynolds View Post
I continually ask god to give me strength to fix my selfishness, give me strength to be kind, etc. but AVRT tells me that I have the power to do so myself. Any thoughts? Does that even make sense? Lol.

How does RR coexist with spirituality?
Hello Dee,

AVRT is generally neutral on spiritual or religious matters, but it can dovetail nicely with traditional religion that supports free will, to the chagrin of some atheists who would prefer a secular recovery club.

The structural model of AVRT shows us that the desire to drink/use -- the Beast -- has no direct means to get what it wants. It cannot control the muscles, and it must appeal to us (via the AV) to convince us to give IT what it wants.

It does this in a number of ways, but mostly, the AV appears to be you, or it tries to inject fear and doubt about your own ability to remain perfectly abstinent in the presence of desire that cannot fulfill itself. It did so as you typed this post, for example.

Originally Posted by Deereynolds View Post
Btw, day 5 and I am passed my 3-4 day relapse curse, so I think this method is showing early promise! I'm excited.
The underlined part from your post above is your Addictive Voice -- any thinking or feeling that supports, or suggests your possible future use of alcohol and other drugs.

All self-doubt about perfect lifetime abstinence suggests the opposite, and is AV -- the Beast talking in your head.

If you have not done so, get yourself a copy of the following book:
Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction by Jack Trimpey
You can always purchase it from the RR web site, but you can get it cheaper from Amazon or eBay, and used copies are practically free. While you wait for the book to arrive, go to the RR web site (rational.org), work through the free crash course on AVRT, and read through the discussion threads on this forum.

AVRT Discussion Thread on Sober Recovery
  1. RR
  2. RR
  3. RR
  4. RR
  5. RR
  6. RR

There are also some other interesting threads I recommend:
  1. Tatsy's Thread -
  2. Flame11's Thread -
  3. Tursiops999's Thread -
  4. Freshstart57's Thread -

These threads should bring you up to speed fairly quickly, but feel free to post any questions.
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Old 01-15-2017, 04:35 PM
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I tend to the religious / spiritual side myself, and I believe I was given freedom to choose my actions by my Creator. Even after a decade or two of dissipative living, I was still able to put that in my past, make a fresh start, and make that rational and considered choice about continuing to use alcohol.

RR maintains that we have the ability to make this choice without regard to our spiritual or religious nature or indeed the lack of same. For me to believe I needed recourse to God to quit my alcohol addiction would be to believe that my sobriety depended on my spiritual health, and that opens the door to more drinking. I would identify that thought as addictive voice, accept its presence while denying its validity, and continue living life in fullness to the best of my ability. In my particular instance, my theistic faith plays a part in that.

Glad to have you here, Dee. I hope you feel most welcome, and continue to post. You will find support and encouragement if you do. Onward!
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Old 01-15-2017, 05:15 PM
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Dee, welcome to this sub-forum! As others have described, AVRT works whether you follow a spiritual path or not, and there is no conflict. I am free from alcohol with AVRT, and my spiritual practices help me with how I live my life in general.

I was in AA during my first year of sobriety, and I still use tools I learned there, such as a gratitude list and the serenity prayer. But my sobriety does not depend on those things, they're just helpful practices for me as I move ahead with my life.

Welcome aboard!
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Old 01-16-2017, 12:34 AM
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I get an error message when I click the above links x
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Old 01-16-2017, 01:28 PM
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Hmmmm, the links are working for me. Idk why you're getting an error message...
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