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I have an AVRT Question, guidance welcomed

Old 08-18-2016, 06:07 AM
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I have an AVRT Question, guidance welcomed

Hello AVRTers, I've spent the last couple of days reading related threads and the RR site material, crash course etc,.

I'm so keen to make a Big Plan, as my attempts at other methods have failed and I'm tired of clenching my fists or holding on by finger tips. The RR site says its material is sufficient, but would it be more beneficial (and offer a greater chance of success) if I ordered the New Cure book?

Has anyone here succeeded, by following the Crash Course and the material on the RR site (and this site) alone, without reading the book?

I do wonder whether my AV is insisting I don't purchase the book, because either it's afraid, or because it will delay the Big Plan, whilst awaiting delivery.
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Old 08-18-2016, 08:15 AM
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Tatsy ~

I'd already made the all important Quit Decision before I found SR ~2.5 years ago, and the RR Slides on line. Those Resources were all I needed, but I was ready to quit after Decades of hitting Alcohol hard.

The RR Slides on line, and the Book, are all great Infrastructure to make doable, or logical, your own customized Plan to quit. But, those things are outside you.

If you're ready to finally quit, there's no time like the present. I've never read The Book you're waiting on, but Folks report getting more from it than what they understood before. |

Mebbe we can sidestep the question of whether your AV is muckin' with ya. Read the on line Materials, and get busy with quitting anyway! Life only gets better...
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Old 08-18-2016, 08:24 AM
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The book is useful Tatsy. But you don't need it. I enjoyed it, and it did give some good insights. Also tells Trimpeys story of how he founded RR. Also, he has always says AVRT came about by listening to what all the drinkers he talked to over the years had in common with each other in what was stopping them achieving the goal of abstience
The book reinforces how to recognise the AV both in thoughts and feelings.
The BIG PLAN is just the commitment you make to never drink again...no matter what.
I enjoyed reading it.
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Old 08-18-2016, 12:14 PM
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Hi Tatsy!

Yep, I'm a crash-course success story! And I just want to echo what Mesa and frip said...you don't need anything Outside yourself to quit if your genuinely ready to quit! The book is great as a resource and a reinforcement of your commitment but you don't it need it, or anything else, to quit if you're ready!! Make your Big Plan and get on with living!
Xo
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Old 08-18-2016, 03:37 PM
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I saw the free crash course and went through it , and then headed out the door and found the last copy of The New Cure at a brick and mortar. Read it in a few days while on vacation , an historically very boozy vacation, it helped to reinforce my BP, but certainly wasn't necessary, as has been said you(we) all have already what it 'takes' to decide " Never again, no matter what and to never change your mind" .
I'd say get the book, but it's not necessary, right Now is the best time for a BP , and since it's always right Now , it's always the best time for a BP
Onward!
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Old 08-18-2016, 08:12 PM
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Hi Tatsy, and welcome!

I agree with others, you already have within you what it takes to quit, right now.

That said, it has been helpful to me to read a wide variety of stuff on addiction and getting sober, including Trimpey's book and many other books. I read various first-person non-fiction autobiographies by people (especially women) who had quit drinking. I read all the AA literature and participated in AA for the first year. I read the materials from the Lifering and SMART programs. I read a whole bunch of blogs and online info. It has helped me to see that there are different ways to view and understand addiction, and that people have found different ways to move forward with a happily sober life.

Looking back on when I quit though --- I quit before I read all that stuff. I just got to a place inside where I didn't like what alcohol was doing to me, and I wanted to be done, and I chose to walk away from it forever.
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Old 08-18-2016, 11:27 PM
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I just watched the "Bullet for my Beast" Crash Course, then proceeded to be sober for the next 3.75 years! I never read any of the books, just the online crash course has been all I've needed to stay sober (well, that and SR!).
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Old 08-19-2016, 04:17 AM
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Thank you MesaMan, fripfrop, Bryn, dwtbd, tursipos999 and MythOfSisphus, for all your great advice and information.

It's also reassuring to read that others have succeeded by applying AVRT. I must admit to harbouring fears that it wasn't effective, then you all arrive with an input, evidencing admirable successes!

I've tried an alternative, worked the steps, to no avail. I like the concept that I have the power, particularly having recently researched the current research on neurological/chemical/physiological basis of alcohol addiction; the application of AVRT makes sense to me.

I just need to summon the courage to build up my psyche towards making a Big Plan, as I know if I fail, the Beast will shred me psychologically and proceed to use a new failure as a further tool, to ensure I continue drinking.
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Old 08-19-2016, 12:37 PM
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Hi Tatsy, and welcome! Here's a thing: a longitudinal study by the NIAA of over 40,000 alcohol dependent folks showed that about 75% of us get sober and stay sober without a formal recovery program. Yowza!

I am sober now for five years using the principles of AVRT. I had a Heart to Heart with myself and made the decision that the last drink I had had was the last drink I would ever have, and then set out to find out how. I went to some meetings and found SR, and a member named Terminally Unique pointed me to Rational Recovery. And that was that! I post here to tell you that you can do exactly as I did, as AVRT is nothing more than the collected lore of those who quit 'on their own', and you can do it too.

Recognize that this AV you mentioned is any thought of drinking again. AND (this is important) it is also any whiff of doubt in your ability to do this thing. Av is also fear of failure as it is keeping you from making your Big Plan.

The only time that any change can happen, the only time we can act, is in the present moment, and out of all of those present moments there will be, this one now is by far the best one.

Believe in you, Tatsy. Believe. Make that leap. I know how hard it can seem, especially after the beating we have taken, for decades, in my case anyway. I know the shame, the guilt, the sadness, the depression, fear and anxiety that accompany addiction to alcohol. And I also know, as you will too, how much better life can be without the booze. You will wonder, as I did, why you waited so long.

Please keep posting as there is a lot of support here for you. YOU CAN DO IT!
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Old 08-20-2016, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
Hi Tatsy, and welcome! Here's a thing: a longitudinal study by the NIAA of over 40,000 alcohol dependent folks showed that about 75% of us get sober and stay sober without a formal recovery program. Yowza!

I am sober now for five years using the principles of AVRT. I had a Heart to Heart with myself and made the decision that the last drink I had had was the last drink I would ever have, and then set out to find out how. I went to some meetings and found SR, and a member named Terminally Unique pointed me to Rational Recovery. And that was that! I post here to tell you that you can do exactly as I did, as AVRT is nothing more than the collected lore of those who quit 'on their own', and you can do it too.

Recognize that this AV you mentioned is any thought of drinking again. AND (this is important) it is also any whiff of doubt in your ability to do this thing. Av is also fear of failure as it is keeping you from making your Big Plan.

The only time that any change can happen, the only time we can act, is in the present moment, and out of all of those present moments there will be, this one now is by far the best one.

Believe in you, Tatsy. Believe. Make that leap. I know how hard it can seem, especially after the beating we have taken, for decades, in my case anyway. I know the shame, the guilt, the sadness, the depression, fear and anxiety that accompany addiction to alcohol. And I also know, as you will too, how much better life can be without the booze. You will wonder, as I did, why you waited so long.

Please keep posting as there is a lot of support here for you. YOU CAN DO IT!
Oh Freshstart, I've been digesting SR posts for months other sites, books, solutions etc., for years. I've suffered a drinking problem/addiction for decades too. In all those years, I've never felt as though I'm on the verge of a shift towards an alcohol free life, but after finding secular recovery (and reading the threads of Terminally Unique and your posts therein) together with the replies from you good folks, I feel ready, I believe this approach will work for me.

It's an uplifting feeling, like preparing to parachute jump, apprehensive, frightened, excited, but there's the AV equivalent, reminding you of the fatality statistics, the AV using its other tactic, telling me not to do something. In fact I've missed out on many opportunities for enjoyment, so that I could sit alone and blackout. What a waste of a life.

I'm still dithering over the RR book, in light of the replies to my question, I probably don't need it, but I'm afraid my AV will use it as a tool "you haven't made a proper BP as you didn't read the book". If I buy it I can quell that thought of my AV. I want to do this right, the once, then work to clear the battlefield of my life, strewn with the wreckage created whilst living under the influence of alcohol.

Once again, thank you to everyone who has contributed.
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Old 08-20-2016, 08:02 AM
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Once you make your decision, you will find that you no longer need to fear your drinking thoughts. By simply accepting them, you rob them of any power. You hold all of the power now. How? Simply by saying so, by making your big plan. These thoughts will come and go, all by themselves, and you will remain, stronger and more confident each time.

It sounds to me like you are ready for that jump, Tatsy. For me it felt like I was about to jump off a cliff, down and down, but the reality proved to be different. I leapt, but I didn't fall. I flew.
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Old 08-20-2016, 12:25 PM
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Freshstart, thank you for your supportive words, I really appreciate them. When I previously mentioned a parachute jump, I did originally think of a cliff top and dithering on the edge. Of course if the AV thought there was a drink at the bottom, it would urge me to jump. It would have no thought that I'd die and be unable to pick up the drink at the bottom.

This makes so much sense to me. I'm actually fighting against myself. When I did my fourth step, my second sponsor (a wonderful woman with a wealth of experience and intellect) advised that I wasn't the typical person with the ego, that thought she was a director of the worlds stage, trod on everyone's feet and made them react against her, and needed to be humble; but that I was 'sinned' against without good cause and that the circumstances I found myself in were outwith my control. I was not not the 'sinner', as a consequence of which I simply used alcohol as a mal- adaptive tool, self-medication I suppose.

So although I finished the steps, that technique wasn't a good fit for me, because I already practiced the principals of the steps prior to developing addiction. I drank too much to cope with my predicament and I became physically addicted.

My behaviour under the influence was pretty horrible, but it was due to being inebriated. I don't believe that one size fits all and we're not terminally unique. I can see how it may be an excellent fit for some. My sponsor said there are many paths up the mountain and we're still in touch, but we discuss other things now. She's interested in the AVRT concept, because her husband is a neuroscientist and he believes it's sound reasoning. She really hopes this works for me.

I am absolutely ready and committed, but just finishing a final taper (ouch! the AV hated that sentence) and I expect to safely stop for good on Wednesday. I need to ensure safety, as the AV will surely use the possibility of dangerous withdrawals, to convince me to continue tapering - which will only lead to ranking up the imbibe. It must be a short, albeit safe taper.
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Old 08-20-2016, 02:47 PM
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Tapering is difficult, by all accounts. For many, it is just continuing to drink. AVRT means Recognizing your AV, identifying it as a maladaptive behaviour that has evolved into a misformed survival drive that mandates further alcohol consumption. Recognize it (there's plenty in your posts) and deeply understand it is no longer you, not if you plan to quit. Recognize it and separate yourself from it.

If you need medical assistance with detox, and you may well do, please see a doctor. They will be happy to help you, free of judgement. In fact, we are all suggested to engage a medical professional. They are good at this stuff, will assist with detox if needed, and offer types of support we can't do here. This is one way to deal with that particular fear, in a rational reasonable manner. It also doesn't involve drinking.

Let me repeat, AV is any thought of consuming alcohol or doubt in your ability to succeed or fear of failure. Set your confidence dial all the way to 11, and do this thing. You deserve this, and it is yours. Reach out and grab hold with both hands, with all your strength of heart and mind and soul, and never let go. Onward!
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Old 08-20-2016, 11:21 PM
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I would suggest you block off half an hour of time to commit to the 'crash course' video/slide show. Pick a time when you can devote your full attention to it. Keep an open mind and let yourself really focus on the ideas as they're presented. Perform the 'thought experiments' as they're presented. While there may no one-size-fits-all approach to quitting I will say that I went from a three bottle of wine per night habit to complete abstinence, and there have been virtually no cravings in almost four years. Honestly I didn't think such a thing was possible! Bear in mind that I was virtually a seven day a week, 365 day a year drinker! I can't recall back to back sober days in the prior five years.

If after you do the Crash Course you still aren't successful then look at other materials to augment it. But leave yourself open to the possibility that you will done with booze right then and there.
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Old 08-23-2016, 12:11 PM
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Thank you Freshstart and MythOfSisyphus for your kind guidance.

I originally decided to plough on with the Crash Course tomorrow, but sadly, the alcohol taper requires a couple of days delay, due to high blood pressure/heart rate issues, so I've extended it little for safety.

I'm still reading the AVRT threads and because of this delay, I've taken the plunge and ordered the RR book. I'm ridiculously excited after order placement. I'm so ready to stop drinking and rebuild my life.

My AV is rampant. Awaking this morning to a sunny day, it's first thought was sitting in the garden this evening watching the sun dip, with a drink in hand. In addition to 'speaking through me' the AV actually showed a mental picture of me, feet up, drink in hand, in colour! I hadn't realised it was muti-media!
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Old 08-24-2016, 10:43 PM
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Not a bad idea. Knowledge is power so gaining a better understanding of the AV can't hurt. Let us know what you think of the book when you get it.
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Old 08-25-2016, 06:10 AM
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Thank you, MythOSysiphus for your support. I do realise that AVRT is a self-recovery concept, but it sure helps when folks respond to me during my journey.

Would you believe, when I placed the Amazon order and chose free delivery, because of the cost of the book - the delivery date was emailed as 5 to 7 days; but the book arrived today, just two days after ordering - that's amazing.

Plus, I live in the middle of nowhere in the UK and normally internet delivery orders are taken back to distant depots, because the sat nav sends the drivers over the hill and they can't be bothered locating me.

But the Amazon driver spent over an hour travelling single track lanes and steep hills, couldn't locate me. He contacted a call centre in Pakistan, who phoned me and then transferred me to the delivery driver. I talked him through the directions and he drove as he spoke to me. When I thanked him, he said his colleagues wouldn't bother to locate obscure addresses, but he always did, because the item could be extremely important to customers. He also sat there updating the system to ensure that I'd be located in the future. I really needed that book, regretted not paying more for earlier delivery, so this early delivery was fortuitous. Amazing Amazon!

Anyway, this isn't an Amazon review. I fully intend to document my journey and will certainly review the book. I've just peeked into a few pages and it was such a relief. I just know this is a good fit for me: self empowerment.

I now realise I'm not defective, because a program didn't work for me; but it took me a long time to crawl out from under that derision, too long.

Joining SR facillitated this and reading the 'AVRT explained threads', instigated by Terminal Uniqueness, sealed it.

I don't need to trudge and have the burden of my recovery being dependant upon attending meetings and passing the message onto others. I've even followed links on SR where there's evidence that telling tales of 'this is how I suffered' actually chemically reacts upon the parts of the brain that addiction does. That would make sense of why elderly folks constantly regurgitate their story, over decades, for self-satisfaction.

I've wasted too many years and I can't wait to start rebuilding my life, in such a way that it is fit for me: not just fit for the continuance of a program and its own self-interest. So very glad I found this secular thread.
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Old 08-25-2016, 08:11 AM
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Glad to hear you were met with a dedicated delivery man. And I hope the book suits you .
Hopefully the taper has been successful or will prove so in the nearest future, just keep in mind "Nothing Sucks Forever" (hat tip Mesa Man), a less eloquent , yet transcendent phrase that can be used quite nicely to disarm any Beast grumblings, Onward!
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Old 08-25-2016, 08:21 AM
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Oh thank you, dwtbd. Yes, I forgot to mention that I was so pleased the delivery man persevered and located me, that I offered him a tip, but he refused. It really does renew my faith in humanity.

The taper is progressing well, thank you, or should I say regressing, as in less. I feel so much better. When I awoke this morning, I started singing 'the sun has got his hat on' to my dogs and cats.......they looked at me as though I was mad. They're used to me crawling out of bed, instead of standing up, opening the blind, surveying the weather and singing because it's sunny!

If you don't mind me asking, what does dwtbd stand for?

Onward!

Last edited by Fusion; 08-25-2016 at 08:30 AM. Reason: Edited to add: Onward!
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Old 08-25-2016, 09:16 AM
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Tatsy ~

Due to Genetics [in part, the Root of this Adoptee's Alcoholism, so far as I can tell], and due to Business Training, I tend to look beyond the 'givens'. For example, shall I go down Path X, or Path Y for Recovery. The Metaphor for my POV is that I take the Chess Board representing limited Options, and up-end it onto the Floor. Start over. Don't automatically accept the restrained choices being shoved at me as 'The Best'.

I've re-examined having to put with up Drinking Dinners where I'm the only Sober Person, as well as 'how many' of them I 'should' tolerate. A: Damned few. MesaMate finally 'gets' this, so it's been retired as a potential source of Marital friction. I get seriously bored with Drunk-A-Logs, so I don't hang where I know they're going to be. I don't write @ SR about my 'Drunkest' Tale, and I got a few. I've done pretty much everything but Heroin. So what? I've shelved my User Gold Star.

Thus, I really like the last 2 Paragraphs of your Post #17 above. There's all kinds of Homilies and implicit Rules about how one goes about the 'proper', or popular, Recovery. Well, the next sound you'll be hearing is that ole Chess Board hitting the Floor once again. I ain't buyin' what I'm 'supposed' to do if it doesn't advance my Sobriety, or if it causes me to wrestle with it. I'm older, with 42 Years of hard Drinking now behind me; I've hit my Sober Stride; and I'm set to blaze my own Sober Trail. Time's a wastin'. Do only what advances your Sobriety. Dump the rest...

I've driven endless Single Track Roads around the U.K., and love it! I always love the Locals' Directions'. 'Yah, so's ya go over da wee Hill, and left at the red McDougal Barn. Ya can't miss it'. Except, there's 3 Red Barns in a row! In the Pic below, we're on Skye looking for the Strathaird Salmon Farm then owned by Jethro Tull's Ian Anderson. Mission Accomplished! Finding Paul McCartney's Sheep Farm down on the Campbeltown Pennisula was another Adventure. Kinda like Rock & Rock Geocaching.

Carry on! You're onto a fantastic Self-directed Recovery Program good for Life!

- 'Heavy Water' ~ Jethro Tull -

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