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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 2

Old 08-11-2011, 08:59 AM
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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 2

Continued from http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...iscussion.html

This is a thread for discussion on the method of Rational Recovery®, called Addictive Voice Recognition Technique®, or AVRT®, which is described in detail in the following book:
"Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction" by Jack Trimpey
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:31 PM
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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 2

Continued from: Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion

Just to remind everyone of the rules:

Originally Posted by AVRT (Terminally Unique) View Post
  1. This is a place to discuss AVRT, and nothing else.
  2. This is not a place to discuss any other recovery programs.
  3. This thread is not a place to post about any issues you may have with your wife, husband, in-laws, family, employer, dog, cat, etc. Please use other threads for that.
  4. This is not a place to discuss the "Big Book" of Alcoholics Anonymous, the "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions," or any other 12-Step literature.
  5. This is not a place to discuss Jack Trimpey's opinions on other topics, such as, for example, his thoughts on Bill Maher, Glenn Beck, and Barack Obama.
  6. This is not a place to discuss how angry or resentful you think Jack Trimpey is.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:37 PM
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As I have been particularly remiss in violating rule 1, I will not be participating in this thread.

I suggest that anyone interested in discussing any topic not directly related to the practice of AVRT do the same.
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Old 10-04-2011, 10:01 PM
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Sorry. It remained closed when I copied it.
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:35 AM
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I have a question: once someone has been practicing AVRT for some time do you sometimes forget that you use it? Right now, for me, I think about it a lot as it's a relatively new thing and I'm still honing it. While it is very simple I wouldn't yet describe it as effortless as I have to keep screening my thoughts for Beast activity.
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:42 AM
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Kanamit,

I've been using it for almost four years now. It does get automatic, it seems to me. I rarely have a thought about drinking and don't feel concerned when I have to be around alcohol. I am often in business situations where drinking is going on. It happens so smoothly in my mind, it doesn't even pop up. I don't have alcohol in my house and prefer social situations that are alcohol free.

hope this helps!

lenina
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:26 AM
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Thanks for the reply, very useful.

Funnily enough, I find it easier when around others drinking as the language they use to justify it and the things they do once drinking remind me of the reason I quit. Beast activity is biggest when I'm on my own.

I'm interested in AVRT users who have read the Allen Carr book. How do you use them together? I like the feel good factor of Carr but it's not watertight like AVRT.

Last edited by kanamit; 10-05-2011 at 03:28 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Lenina View Post
Kanamit,

I've been using it for almost four years now. It does get automatic, it seems to me. I rarely have a thought about drinking and don't feel concerned when I have to be around alcohol. I am often in business situations where drinking is going on. It happens so smoothly in my mind, it doesn't even pop up. I don't have alcohol in my house and prefer social situations that are alcohol free.

hope this helps!

lenina
Thanks, Lenina, I love hearing from others who've used AVRT for a while.
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Old 10-05-2011, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by kanamit View Post
Thanks for the reply, very useful.

Funnily enough, I find it easier when around others drinking as the language they use to justify it and the things they do once drinking remind me of the reason I quit. Beast activity is biggest when I'm on my own.

I'm interested in AVRT users who have read the Allen Carr book. How do you use them together? I like the feel good factor of Carr but it's not watertight like AVRT.
Well I use AVRT in the sense that I identify The Beast and Addictive Voice activity. I read Carr's book about 1 year ago and it kept me thinking logically about alcohol for about 4 months. However, for me, the reframing of how I thought about alcohol wasn't probably enough of a tool to help me when I was overcome by really strong thoughts to drink. So, let's just say that Carr's book got me started on the path that for me, what was needed was a change in thinking when it came to alcohol (literally). I saw booze in a whole new light. But recognizing an actual Addictive Voice that I can separate as not being the real me has been what I believe really keeps me in control and ahead of this thing. Every bit helps.
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Old 10-05-2011, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by AprilMay1895
Oh head noise you want, head noise you got. lol Right now it's "April, you are so stressed out this week. Doesn't it seem silly you're forcing this abstinence thing on you this week of all weeks??? You need to relax this weekend and just let it all go. You don't have the kind of personality that succeeds at this stuff anyway, I give you a week until you're back at it." Of course it's saying it in 1st person tho.
Everything you wrote is obvious AV, but the highlighted parts are classic AV, which will always try to conceal the real purpose of drinking/using, which is to get that deep pleasure; feel good all over. You don't drink to relax, to cope, or any other reason. They are all excuses. Once you accept this, AVRT will become much, much easier.

Think to yourself "IT is lying, IT wants that deep pleasure. Too bad for IT, because I never drink."

This is also a good time to re-state your Big Plan, which has five words, just like your hand. Try saying them once per finger, so that when you get to "never," you send a fitting message to the SOB. If you have any doubts as to who is in control, wiggle your fingers, then stop and look at your hand. Challenge the Beast, over which you are supposedly powerless, to do the same.

Think "OK, mighty Beast, if you can wiggle my fingers, I'm going to get loaded real good." Of course, IT won't be able to do that, which should remind you that the Beast (addictive desire) is a quadriplegic, and cannot do anything without your consent. You are in charge.
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Old 10-05-2011, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by kanamit View Post
I have a question: once someone has been practicing AVRT for some time do you sometimes forget that you use it? Right now, for me, I think about it a lot as it's a relatively new thing and I'm still honing it. While it is very simple I wouldn't yet describe it as effortless as I have to keep screening my thoughts for Beast activity.
As Lenina pointed out, yes, AVRT does become automatic the more you use it. It is also the case that the more you abstain, the weaker the Beast becomes, so that it will pop up less and less frequently. In other words, you won't have to use AVRT as often. As long as you never feed the Beast again, the game is rigged in your favor.

I actually have to think about this a little when responding to posts here, because while I remember there being about four-five months of insane, daily Beast activity when I quit, the actual subjective experience is not quite as fresh in my mind. I did get lots of practice during that time, though.
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Old 10-05-2011, 07:10 AM
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If you think you drink to "cope" or to deal with stress, etc, recall the last time you had a bad day at work and decided to go to the bar afterward. Do you remember what you were feeling as you were driving to the bar? I'm willing to bet that you were so focused on anticipating that drink that your mood was elevated, even before you had your first drink. In other words, even while your BAC was zero, the original reason (excuse) for drinking became irrelevant. So, ask yourself: if you were already feeling good, did you really need that drink to cope, or was it your Beast that wanted a drink?

See "Figure 4: The Feeling of Alcohol" on page 183 of "RR: TNC" for a nice illustration of this phenomenon.
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Old 10-05-2011, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by kanamit View Post
I have a question: once someone has been practicing AVRT for some time do you sometimes forget that you use it? Right now, for me, I think about it a lot as it's a relatively new thing and I'm still honing it. While it is very simple I wouldn't yet describe it as effortless as I have to keep screening my thoughts for Beast activity.
I hadn't discovered AVRT when I quit, so I had no name for the voice in my head. My beast was skillful and cunning. It was 6 weeks in before I could drive home from work without being reminded that the liquor store was just a quick left turn across that parking lot. Over the next several months I heard the voice less and less, but I kept my visual reminders around me.

At about 6 months in I accidentally googled RR. I incorporated AVRT into my thought processes and never looked back. My beast still tries me from time to time. It's almost always when I'm tired, frustrated, and/or angry on my way home from work. "You've had such a hard day and you work so hard. You deserve something to take the edge off."

Edit: Sorry for the long-winded answer. AVRT is rarely a conscious thought for me. I must attend business functions where cocktails are served and I have also been to reunions and parties that included alcohol. I still ramp up my beast radar in those environments and probably always will.
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:27 AM
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Thanks for the answers.

How does AVRT work if you still think there is some pleasure in alcohol? I.e. that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

As I've mentioned before what helped me was Allen Carr's EasyWay in which he claims there are no advantages to drinking alcohol. Not everyone will agree with Allen Carr in this but I do. So alcohol is simply something I never want in my system and AVRT ensures it never gets there.

However, if you think that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages is it not possible for you (not the Beast) to feel like you're missing out on the pleasurable, advantageous effects alcohol brings?
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by kanamit View Post
Thanks for the answers.

How does AVRT work if you still think there is some pleasure in alcohol? I.e. that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

As I've mentioned before what helped me was Allen Carr's EasyWay in which he claims there are no advantages to drinking alcohol. Not everyone will agree with Allen Carr in this but I do. So alcohol is simply something I never want in my system and AVRT ensures it never gets there.

However, if you think that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages is it not possible for you (not the Beast) to feel like you're missing out on the pleasurable, advantageous effects alcohol brings?
I can't speak for what you are feeling. In myself, I would identify feelings "like you're missing out on the pleasurable, advantageous effects alcohol brings" as BEAST AND ONLY BEAST!
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:01 AM
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For me, alcohol is no longer pleasurable. It still may be pleasurable for The Beqst, but not for me. So it doesn't matter because I will never drink again.

Lenina
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:37 AM
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It was probably a stupid question in hindsight. After all, once you have a Big Plan, whether you find alcohol pleasurable or not is irrelevant.
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by kanamit View Post
How does AVRT work if you still think there is some pleasure in alcohol? I.e. that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.
Originally Posted by kanamit View Post
It was probably a stupid question in hindsight. After all, once you have a Big Plan, whether you find alcohol pleasurable or not is irrelevant.
Lenina has it right. If you made a Big Plan, obviously you don't want to drink anymore, nor do you feel that the advantages of drinking outweigh the disadvantages. Otherwise, you wouldn't have made a Big Plan. Through your human eyes, alcohol is poison, responsible for all those bad things that happened. Through your Beast's eyes, though, alcohol is life. Never allow your Beast to take control of the pronoun "I" - always attribute good feelings toward alcohol/drugs to "IT".

Spend some time shifting back and forth between the two mindsets to get the idea. Read pages 202-203 ("Shifting") in conjunction with the Relapse Anxiety Grid on Page 190. Actually, I would commit the bottom chart to memory. You may also want to read "Aggressive Listening" and "Attack your Beast" on Pages 205-206.

The split is the key. Visualize the Beast if you have to. Here's a picture to help you.

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Old 10-05-2011, 12:06 PM
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I have a picture of myself at my drunkest and fattest on my computer desktop and it serves as a good reminder of what my Beast looks like.

I've been finding it much easier to cut any stirring off even before it has the chance to become a thought. I dont take it seriously either.

I also have a Pros of Abstinence versus Cons of Abstinence wall chart up. Pros 15 - Cons 0.
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:37 PM
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More Beast Bait


Your desire for any special conditions in order to abstain is nothing more, and nothing less, than a plan to drink/use in the absence of those conditions.

The list is probably endless, but here are some typical examples:
  1. Better job.
  2. Nicer boss.
  3. More supportive friends/family.
  4. Less stress.
  5. New BF/GF.
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