terall

Thanks Kay, I did not mean that I am sorry I "made" you drink, I meant, I am sorry if you took my comments offensively, when they were not intentions that way
I am again about to butt in! This is my misunderstanding, or understanding? of the topic of no Beast activity or AV activity
The AV is any thought or feeling that may lead you to drink, Yes?
If their is no activity, then there is no inclinations to drink, so why would no activity be the Beast?

flame11

:yes I know what you meant Terall. I was upset by your comments and thought they were rude, and unjustified. I felt that they were offensive to people who had been helping me and inconsiderate of how my learning of AVRT was actually going. I do NOT believe in any way that your comments made me drink alcohol, I choose to drink all by myself.

terall

Yes, I was very brusque, and really, none was any of my business. Usually I will write out my posts in "office word" and go over them to make sure my translations are ok. But those I did not! Maybe I came across harsher than intended in my rush..just could not see why people were "looking for trouble" worrying that when the AV was silent, why this would be an AV "trick" for the reasons in my post above about it..just thinking people complicating for nothing!
What I should have done, was keep my mouth to myself and stick to my own ways without worrying what others are talking about...hindsight..invaluable (or do I mean worthless? haha)
What I will say is anyone can do AVRT and succeed, all just from knowing the very basics of it. If I did, anyone can..but I did find the "and I will never change my mind" the biggest part, it's easy to decide to stop drinking and doing it for a few days/months...but never changing your mind was the crux for me!

soberlicious

Well, it really isn't complicated at all. For most of us the simple answer is "I don't drink , no matter what, ever." But if you read through the posts, you might see Algo's point that people do mistake no AV activity as the end-all-be-all, and when confronted with activity after a period of silence (this is inevitable, really) they are at a loss to see it and separate. The actual end-all-be-all is not drinking despite any activity that may occur.

How are you doing flame? Yes, I am a strong woman, but that came with quitting drinking. Before that I was full of fear and blown about by every wind. I believed I was at the mercy of my thoughts. You are as strong as I am. You just don't believe it yet.

flame11

Thankyou for explaining this to me terall. I don't know about the AV silence question. However I didn't find any of the discussions about this off putting in any way, quite the opposite. I enjoyed reading these post they sparked my brain to come alive.

I can see where you are coming from, that there seemed to be no point of these discussions for you. But after all this is secular connections where discussions of AVRT or other secular methods are permitted to be spoken about...so why not speak about them??

terall

Yes I agree Kay, you will get stronger and stronger.

Soberlious, I understand what you say, but why worry about no Beast activity. If there is none, you do not really notice, it does not bother, you live your life if there is some, you ignore and disengage. So really you ignore if there is and you ignore if there is none

terall

I know, I spoke out of the turn, I should have stayed quiet, but my exasperation and big mouth got in the way haha

soberlicious

It's not about worry, but rather awareness. I don't want to speak for Algo, but I think that was his point.

terall

I think I need to look again at the posts, I have a horrible feeling it is my misunderstanding.

flame11

Hi Soberlicious,
I'm doing OK thanks. I'm not drinking. I'm pretty shaken up about what's happened to me this past week. I'm pleased to be back talking to you all, you do give me strength that I presently lack.

You say blown about by every wind, I wrote once that I felt like a shell being tossed around by the ocean. Yes, that is still how I feel.

I don't have to continue to feel this way. I have to stay away from alcohol and that lifestyle. It will kill me I know it will I haven't a doubt that it wont. I will get on top of this. As Algorithm suggested I'm just getting my bearings back after being in complete beast mode,. I'm regrouping, getting ready to do this. I have learnt from this experience,

tursiops999

Flame, I just want to say I'm so glad you kept posting, and glad you're here. You absolutely can do this. You can learn this technique, learn how to separate -- and be free.

dwtbd

Hey flame, just wanted to say I'm glad you're back, glad You decided to be 'back'
Rootin for ya

Fusion

Hello Flame, I too am really glad you're back posting. I must admit, I didn't like it when you went quiet and am relieved that you're safe after the horrible drinking experience. But that's behind you now and I can read the inner strength you possess, in your posts. So chin up and don't look backwards.

I've appreciated your thread and your insightful questions regarding AVRT, which prompted many replies with great guidance; the outcome being for me, an increased understanding of AVRT.

I'm looking forwards to more of your posts.

soberlicious

Hi flame,
How are you today?

flame11

Hi tursiops999 , thankyou for your supportive post. I too am pleased that I'm continuing to post. Seperation, yes this is what I most definitely need to learn, pretty damned quickly too! Sometimes or more accurately alot of the time I think I get confused between my very self critical and judgmental 'voice' and that of my beast, are they one and the same in AVRT or is there a difference? Actually I believe Algorithms post answered that question to some degree, when he said that the beast will accuse me of being a long list of character defects, which IT does often. Having said that is it legitimate to believe that every negative thought or feeling I have about myself is my beast, or is it some other 'part' of me? Idk but I'm thinking about this alot in regards to seperation, do I seperate from all negative thoughts about myself?

Hi dwtbd, your post means alot thanks for your kind words of support.

Hi Tatsy, thanks for your uplifting post. Today when my mind kept wandering back over the past few days and I was feeling totally rubbish about myself your words " chin up and don't look backwards" were coming into my head ☺ that helped alot, thankyou for your concern and your positivity.

Hi Soberlicious, I'm doing OK thanks. I've had a long and busy day at work so not to much time to think about things. I did contemplate the big plan a little on my lunch hour. Although my AV says I'm not serious about this, I'm just feeling crappy about myself because of what's happened, my pride is hurt but I'll rally and have another go at drinking when I feel better. Personally I'm becoming exhausted with the whole stupid f###ing game. I'm sure I'll go completley mad soon if I don't decide to stay strong against my enemy.

I have concerns though, mainly that I get very lonely. Looking back loneliness has been my Achilles heel as far as my drinking and relapses are concerned, always have been. This is when I let the beast convince me I'm OK to drink because I guess I become so desperate for some kind of human contact that give in to IT. I've had this same cycle for most of my life. I don't know any sober or straight kind of people, i dont know how to be a normal or proper friend. When I don't drink I feel very isolated and end up spending alot of time by myself. I like my job because im interacting with people all day which I enjoy, but im in work mode and its not the same as having a relationship with another person. I don't actually have any friends any more, not one. All my friends were drinkers and party people. I don't have any support from my family, they all have their own issues, it's not that they dont want to be there for me they just have no idea how to be.

Like GT said in his post about losing or changing your lifestyle. I've been thinking about this too. I can get pro active and find new people to connect with, I just have to put myself out there. I know there are lots of good people around. I need to find a new interest or something. Most importantly I need and want to become more confident in myself to help me achieve new things. That is never going to happen whilst I continue to abuse myself.

I used to have dreams and motivations, they are now buried somewhere deep inside me, I rarely like to glimpse at them because they remind me of my failures, my regrets. I also know for sure that if I stop playing games with my beast I can have a full and purposeful life.
I t is my choice to make. I'm scared of the changes I will have to make I won't deny that. I'm more scared over staying the way I am. If I choose to stay like this then I will be lonely for the rest of my life because I will never learn how to be me or make friends or to love other people. I have so much to give. I can't change the world, I'd like to be able to, I can change me and make a difference to my tiny space in it. That's what the true me is all about.

Thankyou for listening to me.

tursiops999

Hi flame, what a heartfelt post. Your dreams and motivations are still there... I can hear you expressing them. They're not far from you at all... you can start to reclaim them now.

I don't believe that all self-critical and judgmental thoughts are the beast per se, although I think the beast will try to take advantage of them ("you can't possibly stand these negative thoughts for one more hour, you need a drink to quiet them down").

I've had a very harsh inner critic all my life. I can't say I'm entirely free of it in sobriety, but I have grown a lot in my ability to be gentle and supportive of myself. It starts with really basic self-care -- exercise, rest, healthy food. I also try to use mindfulness on the harsh inner critic --"oh, there's that harshness again, hmm look at that" -- and I try to remember that just because a negative thought may arise in my mind, does not necessarily make it true or useful or something to take seriously. So there's a kind of separation in just observing self-criticism, recognizing it, but not buying in to it.

Algorithm

Kay,

The Beast has only one primary job: to prevent you from depriving it of that "life giving" alcohol. In order to do this, the AV will conceal the Beast's real reason for wanting the alcohol, which is the sensate signature (ie, the feeling, the buzz) that IT gets from alcohol, which IT interprets as life-giving as oxygen.

The Beast is revisionistic, and IT will change the motivation for drinking that alcohol to make doing so more believable than "that alcohol buzz is better than oxygen". The Beast will transform itself into a doctor ("Dr. Beast"), and argue that alcohol is good for stress management, anger management, pain management, or any other ailment that you believe you may have.

If the Beast can make you believe that you are a congenitally defective specimen, and further argue that no human being should have such a bad hand in life, all the better, since IT can then suggest mega-doses of alcohol as a "solution" to "coping" with your alleged deficits.

This perpetuates the addiction, because as long as you believe that drinking alcohol is "but a symptom" of some imagined deficit, especially an intractable one, and not for the sensate signature that alcohol produces, the Beast will always have a chance to argue for more drinking. This is all AV nonsense.

Drinking alcohol is not a symptom.

Do not allow the AV to change the motivation.

Another go when you feel better? How long is that going to take?

The Beast is pulling up your rap sheet of "failures", lording them over you, accusing you of being incompetent to stay sober, and setting up road blocks and speed bumps. More "oxygen" for the Beast.

Recognize all of that self-doubt as your Addictive Voice. Regroup and re-affirm your Big Plan, the one you made previously.

No going back to square one.

No 24-hour chip.

I will never drink again, and I will never change my mind.

Look at your hands when you re-affirm your BP, and challenge the Beast to wiggle your fingers in exchange for ITs favorite drink. The Beast is ruthless and persistent, since it interprets alcohol as oxygen, but it's all smoke and mirrors. It is powerless, and it can't do anything without your consent.

If you don't get a grip, you will continue to be like a tiny corkscrew floating aimlessly in a sea of alcohol, eventually failing across the board in your higher functions, in your hopes and dreams, in order to serve your master, the Beast.

Drinking alcohol is not a symptom.

Never allow the AV to change the motivation.

soberlicious

Terell,
I responded to your PM, but it appears you aren't accepting PMs back?

flame11

Hey,
Just a little update on how my AVRT is going. I'm reading alot of the AVRT discussion threads, they're amazingly helpful. I reread the crash course and reaffirmed my BP.

I'm identifying the AV alot better now and separating from IT as soon as I recognise IT. Just by saying "oh thats IT again" , then IT retreats for a bit. Sometimes when IT'S being particularly sneaky I get caught up in IT'S thoughts for a while, although IT eventually identifies ITself to me, then I seperate. I've also been separating from any negative thoughts about myself, they generally lead to alcohol consumption too. So much of my thinking is my AV, I dont know why I'm so surprised about that...but it kind of makes me laugh that I am. It is a relief to finally understand and realise that the internal 'battle' I've had for years is 'real' it's not just that I am detective or completely insane.

I don't feel afraid of my AV or IT's desire for alcohol anymore. I know IT is powerless to do anything without my consent, or reversal of intent. IT is a healthy 'part' of me, I dont need to run from or avoid IT., just accept that ITs there. I was afraid of IT before xnd had alot of relapse anxiety, hence I drank again. I truly do not feel this way anymore.

I also had concerns that I was going to be "brain washed" again if I really committed to AVRT. I didn't want to become involved in some kind of 'movement' and feel mentally or emotionally trapped, again. My thoughts on this have altered, as i am learning more I can clearly see that using AVRT is a very personal approach to addiction recovery, self recovery.

All good here in this little corner of the universe

Thankyou all for your help and guidance ☺

MesaMan

.
Something I was going to mention a few Weeks ago, based on Decades of Int'l Biz Travels to areas like Basingstoke, and Bournemouth...

I admire what you're undertaking. Immensely. My take is that you're sobering up in a daunting part of the World. What, with Pub Life so ingrained. I observe this having been to 18 Countries prior to early Retirement from High Tech.

IMO, there is something salient - which you possess - that's more important than Programs: Inner Conviction.

My Best Wishes to you!
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