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Old 03-25-2015, 01:41 AM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
Of course. This is not news.

But if you're talking AVRT, then look at Trimpey's definition of addiction. "Addiction exists only in a state of ambivalence" and "Addiction is known only to the individual". Read illusion 3 starting on page 58 of The New Cure. If someone is using porn or masturbation against their better judgement, then, yeah...ambivalence. Otherwise, no, so no addiction.
Although this reality is not news, many people still think it's a religious problem, others a disease or genetic disorder, exactly the same beast at large thinking in the shrinks land and many believe it. The same beliefs exist on drug addiction field. It's more easy to go with addiction with such beliefs. Is cancer a religious or a behaviour problem some might ask?
If so everyone would have cancer. Can I choose not to have cancer, if I HAVE it? Can I choose not to have sex or drugs, If I have the possibility of DOING it? The answer to this questions is the key for ending addiction once and for all. That's what I myself am convinced although others are not.
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Old 03-25-2015, 04:58 AM
  # 42 (permalink)  
 
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Can I choose not to have cancer, if I HAVE it?
No, you cannot.
Can I choose not to have sex or drugs, If I have the possibility of DOING it?
Yes, you absolutely can.

When one is doing anything compusively, against their better judgement, then addiction exists. Each person's own morality is the compass for defining acceptable/unacceptable behavior.

I can't figure out your analogy. "Is cancer a religious problem some might ask"...um, who in the hell would ask that? Only an idiot would believe cancer has anything to do with religion, or lack of.
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Old 03-25-2015, 04:58 AM
  # 43 (permalink)  
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My comments and opinions expressed on this topic come from looking at the cultural/religious aspect of the proscription against experiencing orgasm outside of marriage. Not complying with the proscription is, to me, not the same as ending an addiction to intoxication from substance use.
I do not mean to belittle your goal, it is just that I think it is outside the realm of AVRT. If masturbating as an activity or obssession with the subject is causing health or welfare issues , then self directed intervention woudl seem the proper course, just not sure if AVRT is that 'path'.

"nature " of the beast, vs nature of the 'beast'
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Old 03-25-2015, 06:29 AM
  # 44 (permalink)  
 
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AVRT has worked for "process addictions" for me, as well as substance addictions.
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Old 03-25-2015, 06:51 AM
  # 45 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
AVRT has worked for "process addictions" for me, as well as substance addictions.
I have no reason to doubt that.

Again, in the secular forum , I am pointing out that the OP's concern is with the proscription of the behaviour, which on the face seems to be not harmful. It seems getting married could be a solution.
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Old 03-25-2015, 07:05 AM
  # 46 (permalink)  
 
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Wait...wut?
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Old 03-25-2015, 07:15 AM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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My understanding of the OP and the issue involved is an adult male that wishes to remain celibate outside of marriage , and considers masturbation as a break of celibacy. It was stated, i believe, that this is not a 'porn' addiction or anythng similar. I think it was stated that the OP wishes to use the AVR technique to quell the urge to experience orgasm.
If I misunderstand , then I apologize to the OP.
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Old 03-25-2015, 07:18 AM
  # 48 (permalink)  
 
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And why wouldn't the AVRT work to eliminate any problematic behavior? And when I say problematic, obviously I mean for the individual.

It would seem this is frequently done when individuals take vows of celibacy for various reasons. The behavior becomes "not an option" for that individual.
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Old 03-25-2015, 07:45 AM
  # 49 (permalink)  
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I suppose I am coming at it from a different perspective. Urges/wantings/impulses are felt and experienced all the time and for various reasons, acting on them is another matter, comes from a 'higher' region, yes?
Analogous may be , whether internet legend or true, the story of a woman that tried to follow the teachings of a certain yogi who claimed to have not consumed material sustanence for years and yet survived. She may well have utitlised the AVRT to quell her urges/desires/impulses to eat or drink and acted by not eating or drinking, but the story ends with her demise, from extreme malnutrition and dehydration. She cured her addiction to food and water, good for her?
Celibacy is a manmade construct and something the midbrain never heard of. Alcohol, pot, coke intoxication is a manmade product of a different species that the midbrain never heard of prior also, but confuses it for 'needful' urge.
I guess I just do not 'get' celibacy as it may relate to addiction.
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Old 03-25-2015, 08:29 AM
  # 50 (permalink)  
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"and for that reason, I'm out"^^^^^^
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Old 03-25-2015, 08:52 AM
  # 51 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by dwtbd View Post
My comments and opinions expressed on this topic come from looking at the cultural/religious aspect of the proscription against experiencing orgasm outside of marriage. Not complying with the proscription is, to me, not the same as ending an addiction to intoxication from substance use.
I do not mean to belittle your goal, it is just that I think it is outside the realm of AVRT. If masturbating as an activity or obssession with the subject is causing health or welfare issues , then self directed intervention woudl seem the proper course, just not sure if AVRT is that 'path'.

"nature " of the beast, vs nature of the 'beast'
Dwtbd,

A I do not mean to be rude, but all your talk is pure AV, beast at very large.
"is just that I think it is outside the realm of AVRT". I guess on this comment that you have a large beast of masturbation and porn inside you. But it's just a guess. If it is, then you are free to load yourself with sex, masturbation or porn, that is up to you. But if you decide not, then you will not do it, period. You do not have a genetic disease. Saying sex is not a behaviour but a disease is the same as saying AVRT is not for sex addictions. And moderation is also a beast talk in this matter. You are literally saying that sex ADDICTION, masturbation ADDICTION, porn ADDICTION is outside of ADDICTED voice recognition technique scope, it's simply doesn't make sense, why would you say an ADDICTION is outside of avrt? If it would AVRT even would not have the ADDICTIVE word in the first place. The only familiar comments and arguments that remember me your comments is my beast, and the beast of sex. I recommend you read chapter 30 of the art of AVRT titled sex beast, it will help you understand what AVRT really is about.

Dwtbd,
If it is your case, I'm not saying it is but if it is, imagine how would you feel if you would never masturbate or see any form of porn ever again?
See, there your beast just cringed
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Old 03-25-2015, 09:17 AM
  # 52 (permalink)  
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Also "I guess I just do not 'get' celibacy as it may relate to addiction"

This is another irrational beast ultimate AV expression.

Celibacy is the same as permanent abstinence from any other addiction, it implies a vow, or if you will a BIG PLAN to not have sex ever again. Because doing it would bring problems or would interfere to the celibate beliefs or life, that's why someone decides to celibate in the first place. It doesn't choose celibate simply because the sun is shining or it's raining. It simply is against is better judgement, it could not be your, but that is your concern, like there are many who still want to fully be loaded with drinks and drugs, and can't never see how quitting drug and alcohol addiction could not relate to AVRT.

I can't prevent you from masturbaing or seeing porn, if you want it, only you can decide that, but if you are confused about others deciding otherwise, than be assured that you are being victim of a very large beast inside you.
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Old 03-25-2015, 10:00 AM
  # 53 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by eternalLiberty View Post
A I do not mean to be rude, but all your talk is pure AV, beast at very large.
If someone is not addicted to porn, does that person still have a porn AV/beast?

When my friends at work, who have never had a problem with alcohol, discuss going out for beers after work are they ate up with the beast?
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Old 03-25-2015, 10:33 AM
  # 54 (permalink)  
 
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Once more...within the AVRT framework, addiction only exists where there is ambivalence.

You cannot say that's another's "porn beast" unless they themselves have expressed ambivalence about porn and masturbation. Without that, no addiction exists.
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Old 03-25-2015, 10:44 AM
  # 55 (permalink)  
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[QUOTE=Nonsensical;5281428]If someone is not addicted to porn, does that person still have a porn AV/beast?

Nonsensical,

Everyone haves a midbrain with desires, if the behaviour influenced by those desires are against you're better judgement, then you have someone or something inside you telling you to repeat that behaviour, even if you don't want to repeat it. You can call it beast if you want or anything you imagine as your worst enemy. For example, if some guy who likes to eat nails and skin from the fingers even if he is hanging out with his friends, asks me:
If someone is not ADDICTED to eating nails, does that person still have a beast av?
That is up to him, if he likes it, he is free to fill is mouth full of nails. But for others who eated nails in the past that have realized this is brings problems to health and isn't good anymore, they benefit from AVRT wish enlights them that there is nothing wrong with them, but that they have an enemy inside, they call it beast. Having this knowledge, they stop this behaviour.

If you believe you are not ADDICTED to alcohol and like to drink it in moderation, it would not make sense for you to think you have a beast. But that doesn't mean that others think opposite to you and realize they have a beast. I think this is so obvious, that I question why would you make such a question. The only person who would make this kind of questions has I remember would be my own beast or every beast of every addiction.
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Old 03-25-2015, 12:02 PM
  # 56 (permalink)  
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If you are really serious about this Google male chastity cage . When I quit drinking I had to stay away from alcohol for awhile and I still would not keep whiskey in the house after 2 years. I would get horrible cravings right before the liquor store closed. It was all in my head but it felt like physical cravings. Poe's law
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Old 03-25-2015, 03:44 PM
  # 57 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by dwtbd View Post
My understanding of the OP and the issue involved is an adult male that wishes to remain celibate outside of marriage , and considers masturbation as a break of celibacy. It was stated, i believe, that this is not a 'porn' addiction or anythng similar. I think it was stated that the OP wishes to use the AVR technique to quell the urge to experience orgasm.
If I misunderstand , then I apologize to the OP.
dwtbd,

No problem dwtbd , i can see in your answer that you are not understanding the matter. You said "OP wishes to use the AVR technique to quell the urge to experience orgasm". I did not say that i wish to "quell the urge" that is not possible, even with avrt. Urges are feelings only, and we cannot avoid them because they are generated involuntarily like some thoughts and images that come to our mind. For example, we cannot avoid dreaming, it the nature of our midbrain to produce "movies" and "scenes" and tell visual stories trought our dreams. But the dreams do canno make us ACT, same with urges. The midbrain only has the ability to transmit images and thought to convince us to get what it wants, but it cannot act on its own. But having an orgasm is another matter, having an orgasm while you are conscious requires you to have some kinds of voluntary action on your "parts" to reach it, not the same as having wet dreams.

As wiki states:

Orgasm is the sudden discharge of accumulated sexual tension during the sexual response cycle ...
Human orgasms usually result from physical sexual stimulation of the penis in males

Orgasm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The "stimulation" is done by "Human" not "animal" beast within, therefore orgasm is voluntary, as voluntary in drinking alchool or using drugs...
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Old 03-25-2015, 06:21 PM
  # 58 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by eternalLiberty View Post
I think this is so obvious, that I question why would you make such a question.
Because I wondered what your opinion was on the matter.
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Old 03-26-2015, 01:16 AM
  # 59 (permalink)  
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Thank you Nonsensical,

I thought you were questioning to disbelieve that anyone can quit any addiction if he wants it. The problem with many is that they have difficulty in understanding that sex like drugs can be an addiction for many people. But it is only a choosable conduct.
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Old 03-26-2015, 02:42 AM
  # 60 (permalink)  
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Couple of questions EL, what difference would being married make to a sex addiction? Would it not still be possible to.act out within the marriage, even if you did not cheat on you partner? I think I am like a few others and am a bit confused by your definitions of addiction. I personally am not an alcoholic but am an ex compulsive gambler, so in some respects I can identify with others and behavioral addictions. There are many many definitions of addiction , so many that in my opinion the word has almost become redundant, what people tend to do is find a description that suits their value system and the script they believe they can live up to, or hope they can, or want to and with this they proclaim a truth.
Just a few thoughts, I am sensing you are getting somewhat annoyed at the questions, thats just the nature of Secular Connections, questions are great ways to explore things , especially our own reactions and annoyances.
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