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Framing the AV

Old 01-09-2013, 11:03 AM
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Framing the AV

I must admit that RR and its principles are appealing to me. However, I have a question for those that follow AVRT. When framing your conversation with your AV, do you think of it as separate from you? Do you think of it as an actual thing?

I hope I am phrasing this well enough to get my questions across. Essentially, I have a mental block when it comes to thinking of AV as an actual, real thing. I can recognize when I want to drink, understand the techniques behind confronting those desires as something trying to hurt my overall self but I still find it difficult to address AV as something that is real.

How do you 'see' your AV? What is your AV, to you? (For those that follow this path to sobriety)
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:33 AM
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AV is any thinking, in words or images, that supports or even suggests the future use of alcohol. It's the head noise. I think of it as separate from me in that IT wants to drink but I do not. I separate myself from that thinking...I identify that thinking as not my own, or not from the "right mind" part of me...

Some people personify their beast (addictive desire).
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:45 AM
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I just started on the RR path...first thing I did was name my beast a name I hate. That way I could tell it to shut up... It seems to be helping me some.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:55 AM
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From p. 110 of Rational Recovery: The New Cure by Jack Trimpey,
"Beast" is actually more than a metaphor. In a very real way, there is a beast within each human being ... a carryover from prehistoric times ... effective at getting what it wants for survival. ... It doesn't give up, and it will use as much of your human capacity as it can to learn, reason, plan ahead, and move about in order to satisfy its survival appetites. ... Your beast brain believes that alcohol is just as important for survival as oxygen. ..."
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:11 PM
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I like can relate to both soberlicious and GT's posts.

I've only personalized it to the point where I can recognize my AV as "IT".

Yesterday afternoon, I had a visitor who brought me a Latte from a well known coffee shop. I can't remember the last time I drank coffee that late in the day, much less coffee that had a lot of caffeine in it so I was fairly jacked by the I went to bed. "IT" started in as soon as I lay my head on the pillow. Without any forethought, I told IT to go get hit by a car (visualized it as well).

Can't tell you what IT looked like but I can tell you what the car looked like. Racing thoughts stopped and I fell right off to sleep.

I will not indulge in a late afternoon coffee again.

Still new to AVRT so I'm always open to people dissecting my posts for any signs of the AV.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine
a carryover from prehistoric times
the bicameral mind...
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:31 PM
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It really took some settling down on my part to "get" this.

I used to have conversations with the AV - until I recognized It was baiting me.
I used to try to ignore the AV - until I recognized that it would not be silenced by "trying" to ignore It.
I used to tell me AV to shut up - until I recognized that I was giving it power by being confrontational.

Of late, I am not employing any strategy at all with regard to controlling, manipulating or refuting It. I acknowledge it's presence when it comes along and then I Quite Deliberately put It aside. It's somewhat akin to ignoring my cat who puts up a fuss sometimes when I walk into the kitchen. She (the cat) is somewhat predictable with her meowing, so I am prepared for those times and I hardly react at all because I expect her to carry on. Other times, I've forgotten that she will carry on, so I might say something dismissively, but it doesn't bother me or worry me that the silly beast thinks she should be fed something simply because I'm there.

The beast is a real phenomena, created and nurtured by my continued drinking. There is a part of me that wants to drink and probably always will. It does not think, nor does It control me. But It is a feeling/desire/compulsion that I recognize within myself and that is ALL it is.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by blackbeard View Post
I must admit that RR and its principles are appealing to me. However, I have a question for those that follow AVRT. When framing your conversation with your AV, do you think of it as separate from you? Do you think of it as an actual thing?

I hope I am phrasing this well enough to get my questions across. Essentially, I have a mental block when it comes to thinking of AV as an actual, real thing. I can recognize when I want to drink, understand the techniques behind confronting those desires as something trying to hurt my overall self but I still find it difficult to address AV as something that is real.

How do you 'see' your AV? What is your AV, to you? (For those that follow this path to sobriety)
My Beast/AV are only real to me in the sense that AVRT brings them into my awareness as being against my Big Plan to not now ever drink again, and my never changing my mind. I don't really care much for my Beast/AV, and the more I can be indifferent to It, after using AVRT to recognise my AV as the voice of my Beast, and not of me, the more I simply just move past It, and pretty well just forget about It. My past drinking is really more about my past self, and not anything really to do with me today.

There is no future drinking in my future. There is no drinking in my now. All my drinking experiences are in my past, and even then, in my disassociated drinking past, lol.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:35 AM
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what a fab thread/posts ,, and very easy to understand,,, i havent been around here much,,, still thinking up new ways of getting dear cuddly robby robot in a tiz,,,,,, no such luck,, as yet xxx hehehe x im just not that clever xx lol xx ( oops) x
but ,,, i really enjoyed reading this one,, clear and no contraditions,, just concise and to the point,, its what i need anyhoo,,,,
so,, a quick update ,, still doing fab,,, feeling fab,, well apart from my cts,, but ok,, waaitng my surgery date xx ugh x hate being on the other side,, im an ex nurse,, and its so darn hard being a patient,,but im a very patient patient cos of it xx
hope everyone is well and dandy

lv cleo xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:38 AM
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not that i got/get robby robot in a tiz of course,,, oh you know wot i mean xx
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