Beyond Addiction: How Science and Kindness Help People Change: CRAFT for Families
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by BlueChair 
I hope you join us Kari !!!
I havent read any of Stanton Peele yet, but his books are recommended at Smart I think, and they released a free podcast of an interview they did with him in October.
I will try to link it here:
SMART Recovery® Special Event Podcasts : WEBINAR: Questioning Dr. Stanton Peele -- with Dr. Tom Horvath
I havent read any of Stanton Peele yet, but his books are recommended at Smart I think, and they released a free podcast of an interview they did with him in October.
I will try to link it here:
SMART Recovery® Special Event Podcasts : WEBINAR: Questioning Dr. Stanton Peele -- with Dr. Tom Horvath
Kari
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by allforcnm
Thank you for sharing that Kari.. I hope you like the book and find helpful ideas for yourself and family.... please share with us as you read 
Kari
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
Originally Posted by allthatsgood
I did not know this secular forum existed until just now. I find this thread very interesting and hope to delve into the craft thought process more deeply.
Lots of libraries carry the book. I hadnt looked at our public library in a long time, and just recently found out they have progressed in all their services. They offer tons of stuff now, very cool. With this book, they even had an option for a free audio. This would have been helpful for the amount of time I spend in my car to / from work.
Even if you dont get the book, please join us for discussion if the ideas interest you.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by allthatsgood
I think I may have been following some of the Craft steps without even knowing it!
Kari
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MI
Posts: 452
This is a really great thread. I agree that this forum should be linked somehow to the main F&F forum - I too didn't realize it was here, and wouldn't have stumbled on this thread if it weren't for a PM alerting me to its existence.
So many parents are made to feel guilty for reacting to their addicted child with kindness, compassion, and efforts to protect - all hallmarks of a loving parent. We are told we are "sick" because we love and want to help our addict. Concepts such as codependency, detachment, "no contact", tough love, and enabling are thrown around by well-meaning people in black-and-white fashion, and I think often do more harm that good - to relationships, to families and loved ones, and to the addicts themselves. The concepts are often interpreted in the harshest of terms, and are implemented by families against addicted loved ones in an attempt to control the addicts' behaviors.
We must never forget that we are dealing with a DEADLY disease. Harsh tactics designed to push an addict to "rock bottom" may backfire - rock bottom can mean death, leaving loved ones forever regretting that their last interactions with their addicted loved ones deliberately intensified their loved ones' pain.
Parents are very much in need of information regarding CRAFT, and it is unfortunate that it is not yet widely known. Instead, family support groups and rehab centers continue to push the idea that all people who love an addict are - must be - codependent ... simply because they love the person. I will never forget going to the first family group session at the second rehab my addict stayed at, and being told by the speaker - very authoritatively and very loudly - "You're all sick!" Really? You don't even know me....
Thank you, allforcnm, for starting this thread.
So many parents are made to feel guilty for reacting to their addicted child with kindness, compassion, and efforts to protect - all hallmarks of a loving parent. We are told we are "sick" because we love and want to help our addict. Concepts such as codependency, detachment, "no contact", tough love, and enabling are thrown around by well-meaning people in black-and-white fashion, and I think often do more harm that good - to relationships, to families and loved ones, and to the addicts themselves. The concepts are often interpreted in the harshest of terms, and are implemented by families against addicted loved ones in an attempt to control the addicts' behaviors.
We must never forget that we are dealing with a DEADLY disease. Harsh tactics designed to push an addict to "rock bottom" may backfire - rock bottom can mean death, leaving loved ones forever regretting that their last interactions with their addicted loved ones deliberately intensified their loved ones' pain.
Parents are very much in need of information regarding CRAFT, and it is unfortunate that it is not yet widely known. Instead, family support groups and rehab centers continue to push the idea that all people who love an addict are - must be - codependent ... simply because they love the person. I will never forget going to the first family group session at the second rehab my addict stayed at, and being told by the speaker - very authoritatively and very loudly - "You're all sick!" Really? You don't even know me....
Thank you, allforcnm, for starting this thread.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by SeekingGrowth
This is a really great thread. I agree that this forum should be linked somehow to the main F&F forum - I too didn't realize it was here, and wouldn't have stumbled on this thread if it weren't for a PM alerting me to its existence.
So many parents are made to feel guilty for reacting to their addicted child with kindness, compassion, and efforts to protect - all hallmarks of a loving parent. We are told we are "sick" because we love and want to help our addict. Concepts such as codependency, detachment, "no contact", tough love, and enabling are thrown around by well-meaning people in black-and-white fashion, and I think often do more harm that good - to relationships, to families and loved ones, and to the addicts themselves. The concepts are often interpreted in the harshest of terms, and are implemented by families against addicted loved ones in an attempt to control the addicts' behaviors.
We must never forget that we are dealing with a DEADLY disease. Harsh tactics designed to push an addict to "rock bottom" may backfire - rock bottom can mean death, leaving loved ones forever regretting that their last interactions with their addicted loved ones deliberately intensified their loved ones' pain.
Parents are very much in need of information regarding CRAFT, and it is unfortunate that it is not yet widely known. Instead, family support groups and rehab centers continue to push the idea that all people who love an addict are - must be - codependent ... simply because they love the person. I will never forget going to the first family group session at the second rehab my addict stayed at, and being told by the speaker - very authoritatively and very loudly - "You're all sick!" Really? You don't even know me....
Thank you, allforcnm, for starting this thread.
So many parents are made to feel guilty for reacting to their addicted child with kindness, compassion, and efforts to protect - all hallmarks of a loving parent. We are told we are "sick" because we love and want to help our addict. Concepts such as codependency, detachment, "no contact", tough love, and enabling are thrown around by well-meaning people in black-and-white fashion, and I think often do more harm that good - to relationships, to families and loved ones, and to the addicts themselves. The concepts are often interpreted in the harshest of terms, and are implemented by families against addicted loved ones in an attempt to control the addicts' behaviors.
We must never forget that we are dealing with a DEADLY disease. Harsh tactics designed to push an addict to "rock bottom" may backfire - rock bottom can mean death, leaving loved ones forever regretting that their last interactions with their addicted loved ones deliberately intensified their loved ones' pain.
Parents are very much in need of information regarding CRAFT, and it is unfortunate that it is not yet widely known. Instead, family support groups and rehab centers continue to push the idea that all people who love an addict are - must be - codependent ... simply because they love the person. I will never forget going to the first family group session at the second rehab my addict stayed at, and being told by the speaker - very authoritatively and very loudly - "You're all sick!" Really? You don't even know me....
Thank you, allforcnm, for starting this thread.
Kari
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Good Morning Blue and all, I hope everyone is doing well!
I have been thinking a lot about this method. One thing I would like to ask is your thought process in that how does this approach deal with the consequences of alcoholic and addict behavior on children? I ask b/c of course children are not old enough to be able to have the rationale it takes to apply this method. My job as a mother is to protect the physical and emotional wellbeing of my children. Just their being exposed to their father's drinking cause them severe emotional distress.
I read there should not be ultimatums in the relationship. I guess my question is, why not? Why is it ok to not say, look, this has to stop or you have to get out because of what it is doing to me and our children as a family?
I am trying to help my children in any way I can with their relationship with their father b/c of the hostility they have towards him as a result of his drinking and the behavior during.
Any advise? I am here for openness and honesty, I am definitely not bashing this method b/c I don't really even know enough about it. I am already divorced and not at all interested in getting back together or anything of the sort, however I do maintain a relationship with my X b/c we have children together. I would like that relationship to be as positive as possible.
Thoughts......
I have been thinking a lot about this method. One thing I would like to ask is your thought process in that how does this approach deal with the consequences of alcoholic and addict behavior on children? I ask b/c of course children are not old enough to be able to have the rationale it takes to apply this method. My job as a mother is to protect the physical and emotional wellbeing of my children. Just their being exposed to their father's drinking cause them severe emotional distress.
I read there should not be ultimatums in the relationship. I guess my question is, why not? Why is it ok to not say, look, this has to stop or you have to get out because of what it is doing to me and our children as a family?
I am trying to help my children in any way I can with their relationship with their father b/c of the hostility they have towards him as a result of his drinking and the behavior during.
Any advise? I am here for openness and honesty, I am definitely not bashing this method b/c I don't really even know enough about it. I am already divorced and not at all interested in getting back together or anything of the sort, however I do maintain a relationship with my X b/c we have children together. I would like that relationship to be as positive as possible.
Thoughts......
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
Originally Posted by KariSue
How do we get this linked to the main F&F's forum? I am not very computer saavy.
Kari
Kari
I can make a thread and let people on the other forums know we are discussing the book, but I dont want the thread to turn into a debate about methodology, because its a book review and discussion. I want it to be a safe place us to talk !
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
Originally Posted by hopeful4
Good Morning Blue and all, I hope everyone is doing well!
I have been thinking a lot about this method. One thing I would like to ask is your thought process in that how does this approach deal with the consequences of alcoholic and addict behavior on children? I ask b/c of course children are not old enough to be able to have the rationale it takes to apply this method. My job as a mother is to protect the physical and emotional wellbeing of my children. Just their being exposed to their father's drinking cause them severe emotional distress.
I read there should not be ultimatums in the relationship. I guess my question is, why not? Why is it ok to not say, look, this has to stop or you have to get out because of what it is doing to me and our children as a family?
I am trying to help my children in any way I can with their relationship with their father b/c of the hostility they have towards him as a result of his drinking and the behavior during.
Any advise? I am here for openness and honesty, I am definitely not bashing this method b/c I don't really even know enough about it. I am already divorced and not at all interested in getting back together or anything of the sort, however I do maintain a relationship with my X b/c we have children together. I would like that relationship to be as positive as possible.
Thoughts......
I have been thinking a lot about this method. One thing I would like to ask is your thought process in that how does this approach deal with the consequences of alcoholic and addict behavior on children? I ask b/c of course children are not old enough to be able to have the rationale it takes to apply this method. My job as a mother is to protect the physical and emotional wellbeing of my children. Just their being exposed to their father's drinking cause them severe emotional distress.
I read there should not be ultimatums in the relationship. I guess my question is, why not? Why is it ok to not say, look, this has to stop or you have to get out because of what it is doing to me and our children as a family?
I am trying to help my children in any way I can with their relationship with their father b/c of the hostility they have towards him as a result of his drinking and the behavior during.
Any advise? I am here for openness and honesty, I am definitely not bashing this method b/c I don't really even know enough about it. I am already divorced and not at all interested in getting back together or anything of the sort, however I do maintain a relationship with my X b/c we have children together. I would like that relationship to be as positive as possible.
Thoughts......
I think so far all we have discussed is in the introduction to the book, so there is a lot more to come. There is a whole chapter on consequences and allowing them to happen. This would include actions you have to take to protect your kids.
Do your kids understand addiction in age appropriate ways? Are they old enough to understand about the brain, and how drugs and drinking affect areas of the brain and how all this manifests in their dads behavior?
I think kids are going to take a lot of cues from both parents, so I think the way you think, talk, react to things with their dad is going to be constantly teaching then how they should think, talk, react too.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
Originally Posted by KariSue
Me too. So far, to me, this book almost seems like it is training one to be a counselor of sorts.
Kari
Kari
When my husband was in rehab last year, he came home for a weekend visit at around 30 days. He was going through bad anxiety at the time, and without my knowing it, he got hold of some drugs he had at the house and used them. it wasnt even his drug of choice, it was one he had on hand I guess to help him recover from using, like a sedative type. he knew he would get caught when he got back to rehab because they test people on return, and he said he just needed it because he wanted to be relaxed when he was home.
When I found out how he came home, used, lied to me the whole weekend I was hysterical. I yelled at him on the phone while he was in rehab and said some of the most awful things. He then reacted and got so upset he wanted to leave rehab. The doctors there got hold of me then and said look you need to understand what is going on here, your overreacting. Then I was mad at them too for a little bit ! But after this happened, they started to explain things to me, more like stepping back and like a counselor would see the situation, understanding why he had the pull to do what he did, how it wasnt to hurt me, or lie to me, but because in his mind he needed it to function.
And I had people telling me he wasnt serious about recovery and trying to make me even more angry about how he lied. If it wasnt for the doctors making me step back, and teaching me how to change my thinking then I dont know what would have happened. All I know is I never want to lose control of myself again like I did that day, no matter what happens.
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Originally Posted by BlueChair
Hi Hopeful,
Do your kids understand addiction in age appropriate ways? Are they old enough to understand about the brain, and how drugs and drinking affect areas of the brain and how all this manifests in their dads behavior?
I think kids are going to take a lot of cues from both parents, so I think the way you think, talk, react to things with their dad is going to be constantly teaching then how they should think, talk, react too.
Do your kids understand addiction in age appropriate ways? Are they old enough to understand about the brain, and how drugs and drinking affect areas of the brain and how all this manifests in their dads behavior?
I think kids are going to take a lot of cues from both parents, so I think the way you think, talk, react to things with their dad is going to be constantly teaching then how they should think, talk, react too.
My children definitely understand addiction. I guess the real problem is that their father I believe also has an underlying personality disorder. So, you have two issues, neither one very good. I have learned to be much more calm but of course I am divorced from him now. Unfortunately in the past, I should have just calmly had better reactions instead of fighting words, which has created anxiety in my children, from both of us. Ultimately they are very paranoid about their father and his drinking and issues and unfortunately just don't like him very much.
They are in counseling now, and I do encourage calm solutions as does their counselor. She is a Godsend. I don't know, I guess it's all just really hard to understand and feels a bit like the person with the issue is getting a free pass at all of this bad behavior while my children are the ones who suffer. Does that make sense??
I will stop here b/c I think I am rambling! I hope everyone has a great day!
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Canada.
Posts: 795
Originally Posted by allforcnm
I wanted to share something with you from the CRAFT 20 minute guide....
What is “Enabling”?
It’s important to understand this often misused word. It means softening or removing the negative consequences of another person’s negative behavior, which in effect encourages the continuation of that behavior. If you rush to get your partner out of bed for his brunch plans with friends, even though he stayed out too late the night before, he never has to face his upset friends. He never has to link his behavioral choice (staying out too late) with the natural consequence (upset friends). He only has to face your upset and stress, which are likely very common and easily tuned out.
The confusion? Many people think enabling means doing anything nice for a loved one who is abusing substances. If, in your anger and disappointment at certain negative behaviors (using drugs, coming home late), you withdraw all your positive attention (even when he is sober and trying to engage in a nice conversation), you create a negative environment that is not good for anyone, you or your partner.
Making a difference requires understanding the difference:
Promote positive behaviors with positive outcomes.
Allow negative behaviors to have negative outcomes.
~~
I highlighted the portion about creating a negative environment because it sounds like this is what you experienced when you stopped doing his laundry.. and maybe that's small.. but perhaps it could be considered withdrawing of positive attention.. stopping an activity that was viewed as "nice".. and instead incrementing a punishment ?
Im attaching the link to this page and it has a small video about this topic from one of the authors of this book.
Natural Consequences: Allowing Them To Happen - The 20 Minute Guide
One of the ideas I found interesting is that the importance of allowing negative consequences is to allow our loved one to start an internal conversation in their own mind... what they are missing, or why this happened...
Just tossing this out.. but in regards to your husband not participating as much in child-raising... A natural consequence for him might be his realization that he is missing moments in these precious years of childhood... isn't that one of the worst things he could experience? My guess is on some level he does realize this.... and its happening without you even confronting him. But maybe think about that dynamic, and if he's ever acknowledged it.
~ This idea may also be something different because I think we are all familiar with the ideas that float about saying an addict doesn't care, an addict doesn't feel, and addict isn't capable of love... But Craft believes a person with a substance abuse issue is still capable of all these emotions... the problem often begins when they try to cope with the emotions. ~
What is “Enabling”?
It’s important to understand this often misused word. It means softening or removing the negative consequences of another person’s negative behavior, which in effect encourages the continuation of that behavior. If you rush to get your partner out of bed for his brunch plans with friends, even though he stayed out too late the night before, he never has to face his upset friends. He never has to link his behavioral choice (staying out too late) with the natural consequence (upset friends). He only has to face your upset and stress, which are likely very common and easily tuned out.
The confusion? Many people think enabling means doing anything nice for a loved one who is abusing substances. If, in your anger and disappointment at certain negative behaviors (using drugs, coming home late), you withdraw all your positive attention (even when he is sober and trying to engage in a nice conversation), you create a negative environment that is not good for anyone, you or your partner.
Making a difference requires understanding the difference:
Promote positive behaviors with positive outcomes.
Allow negative behaviors to have negative outcomes.
~~
I highlighted the portion about creating a negative environment because it sounds like this is what you experienced when you stopped doing his laundry.. and maybe that's small.. but perhaps it could be considered withdrawing of positive attention.. stopping an activity that was viewed as "nice".. and instead incrementing a punishment ?
Im attaching the link to this page and it has a small video about this topic from one of the authors of this book.
Natural Consequences: Allowing Them To Happen - The 20 Minute Guide
One of the ideas I found interesting is that the importance of allowing negative consequences is to allow our loved one to start an internal conversation in their own mind... what they are missing, or why this happened...
Just tossing this out.. but in regards to your husband not participating as much in child-raising... A natural consequence for him might be his realization that he is missing moments in these precious years of childhood... isn't that one of the worst things he could experience? My guess is on some level he does realize this.... and its happening without you even confronting him. But maybe think about that dynamic, and if he's ever acknowledged it.
~ This idea may also be something different because I think we are all familiar with the ideas that float about saying an addict doesn't care, an addict doesn't feel, and addict isn't capable of love... But Craft believes a person with a substance abuse issue is still capable of all these emotions... the problem often begins when they try to cope with the emotions. ~
He knows he's missing out on his kids lives. And he has begun to comment when they ask for me instead of him. He's realizing it. And he'll want to do special things with them now where he didn't before when he was heavily drinking. Hopefully progress!
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Canada.
Posts: 795
Originally Posted by SeekingGrowth
This is a really great thread. I agree that this forum should be linked somehow to the main F&F forum - I too didn't realize it was here, and wouldn't have stumbled on this thread if it weren't for a PM alerting me to its existence.
So many parents are made to feel guilty for reacting to their addicted child with kindness, compassion, and efforts to protect - all hallmarks of a loving parent. We are told we are "sick" because we love and want to help our addict. Concepts such as codependency, detachment, "no contact", tough love, and enabling are thrown around by well-meaning people in black-and-white fashion, and I think often do more harm that good - to relationships, to families and loved ones, and to the addicts themselves. The concepts are often interpreted in the harshest of terms, and are implemented by families against addicted loved ones in an attempt to control the addicts' behaviors.
We must never forget that we are dealing with a DEADLY disease. Harsh tactics designed to push an addict to "rock bottom" may backfire - rock bottom can mean death, leaving loved ones forever regretting that their last interactions with their addicted loved ones deliberately intensified their loved ones' pain.
Parents are very much in need of information regarding CRAFT, and it is unfortunate that it is not yet widely known. Instead, family support groups and rehab centers continue to push the idea that all people who love an addict are - must be - codependent ... simply because they love the person. I will never forget going to the first family group session at the second rehab my addict stayed at, and being told by the speaker - very authoritatively and very loudly - "You're all sick!" Really? You don't even know me....
Thank you, allforcnm, for starting this thread.
So many parents are made to feel guilty for reacting to their addicted child with kindness, compassion, and efforts to protect - all hallmarks of a loving parent. We are told we are "sick" because we love and want to help our addict. Concepts such as codependency, detachment, "no contact", tough love, and enabling are thrown around by well-meaning people in black-and-white fashion, and I think often do more harm that good - to relationships, to families and loved ones, and to the addicts themselves. The concepts are often interpreted in the harshest of terms, and are implemented by families against addicted loved ones in an attempt to control the addicts' behaviors.
We must never forget that we are dealing with a DEADLY disease. Harsh tactics designed to push an addict to "rock bottom" may backfire - rock bottom can mean death, leaving loved ones forever regretting that their last interactions with their addicted loved ones deliberately intensified their loved ones' pain.
Parents are very much in need of information regarding CRAFT, and it is unfortunate that it is not yet widely known. Instead, family support groups and rehab centers continue to push the idea that all people who love an addict are - must be - codependent ... simply because they love the person. I will never forget going to the first family group session at the second rehab my addict stayed at, and being told by the speaker - very authoritatively and very loudly - "You're all sick!" Really? You don't even know me....
Thank you, allforcnm, for starting this thread.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Canada.
Posts: 795
Originally Posted by hopeful4
My children definitely understand addiction. I guess the real problem is that their father I believe also has an underlying personality disorder. So, you have two issues, neither one very good. I have learned to be much more calm but of course I am divorced from him now. Unfortunately in the past, I should have just calmly had better reactions instead of fighting words, which has created anxiety in my children, from both of us. Ultimately they are very paranoid about their father and his drinking and issues and unfortunately just don't like him very much.
They are in counseling now, and I do encourage calm solutions as does their counselor. She is a Godsend. I don't know, I guess it's all just really hard to understand and feels a bit like the person with the issue is getting a free pass at all of this bad behavior while my children are the ones who suffer. Does that make sense??
I will stop here b/c I think I am rambling! I hope everyone has a great day!
They are in counseling now, and I do encourage calm solutions as does their counselor. She is a Godsend. I don't know, I guess it's all just really hard to understand and feels a bit like the person with the issue is getting a free pass at all of this bad behavior while my children are the ones who suffer. Does that make sense??
I will stop here b/c I think I am rambling! I hope everyone has a great day!
So while it may look like H is getting a free pass, he really isn't. And inside his head, he's going through hell the whole time because he knows how she feels, even tho she hasn't told him. He knows he has let her down.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by hopeful4
My children definitely understand addiction. I guess the real problem is that their father I believe also has an underlying personality disorder. So, you have two issues, neither one very good. I have learned to be much more calm but of course I am divorced from him now. Unfortunately in the past, I should have just calmly had better reactions instead of fighting words, which has created anxiety in my children, from both of us. Ultimately they are very paranoid about their father and his drinking and issues and unfortunately just don't like him very much.
They are in counseling now, and I do encourage calm solutions as does their counselor. She is a Godsend. I don't know, I guess it's all just really hard to understand and feels a bit like the person with the issue is getting a free pass at all of this bad behavior while my children are the ones who suffer. Does that make sense??
I will stop here b/c I think I am rambling! I hope everyone has a great day!
They are in counseling now, and I do encourage calm solutions as does their counselor. She is a Godsend. I don't know, I guess it's all just really hard to understand and feels a bit like the person with the issue is getting a free pass at all of this bad behavior while my children are the ones who suffer. Does that make sense??
I will stop here b/c I think I am rambling! I hope everyone has a great day!
I wonder like you. I wonder if it addresses children in the book.
Just flipping through the book I don't see a section on children. I do see different examples relating to children. Under the 'Consequences' chapter, it talks about natural consequences and gives an example with children.
It gives an example of a mom who has daughters and their sports games on Saturdays. Dad drinks the night before and she can't get him up for games. Sometimes each girl has a game about the same time on different fields and then dad took one daughter and mom took the other. The books says that mom decided to talk to dad calmly ahead of time telling him that sometimes she has trouble getting the girls ready and him up so from now on he will need to get himself up so they can all have fun on Saturdays. If he doesn't she lets him sleep and miss the games (which she says will make him feel bad and the girls feel bad). If girls ask about him she tells them it was hard for dad to get up and they'll get to tell him about the game later. In other words, talk to dad about their disappointment. She also makes plans for rides and supervision for the girls if necessary. One might get a ride home with another parent.
She said he missed the games a few times but then one Friday night at a party she heard him refusing another drink because he said "he had to get up early so he wouldn't miss his girls' games."
My comment would be that would be way better than creating a scene every Saturday morning. Far less harmful for the children.
It really isn't fair that the one with a problem seems to get a free pass while everyone else suffers. I get what you mean. I feel that way often. Still, that happens no matter what way you handle the whole addiction problem. It's all really unfair to everyone in the family and I hate it. But as far as ideas go to make the situation more bearable CRAFT seems like a good thing to try.
Kari
P.S. I am very grateful that my grandchildren live with their sober mom instead of my son. He sees them regularly and is a good dad but I'm so glad they have been mostly shielded from the everyday chaos.
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Posts: 13,560
Thank you all for responding. I appreciate the input very much, if nothing else in that it helps when others understand.
For my X, he has issues admitting guilt and accepting fault for ANYTHING at all. So yes, he is the one who loses in that his relationship with her suffers, (my dd is also 15 and also knows just what is going on), he just blames me, or now more blames her (not to her face). So I feel in his mind he is still getting that free pass.
The example above about the kids and the games. Wow, that could have been my life for a long time. My X is much more involved in things like games and such now than he ever was before. For my kids, it's too late in so many ways. I let him sleep and let him miss tons of family things. Problem is, it never did really bother him the way it does in the example. I did not yell and scream about him missing things.
I guess it will just take time and learning.
Thanks again for listening!
For my X, he has issues admitting guilt and accepting fault for ANYTHING at all. So yes, he is the one who loses in that his relationship with her suffers, (my dd is also 15 and also knows just what is going on), he just blames me, or now more blames her (not to her face). So I feel in his mind he is still getting that free pass.
The example above about the kids and the games. Wow, that could have been my life for a long time. My X is much more involved in things like games and such now than he ever was before. For my kids, it's too late in so many ways. I let him sleep and let him miss tons of family things. Problem is, it never did really bother him the way it does in the example. I did not yell and scream about him missing things.
I guess it will just take time and learning.
Thanks again for listening!
Originally Posted by soverylost
I can see how you feel that way. I do too. But then I ask Dd (15) how she feels and she knows exactly what's going on. Who is there for her when she needs someone. Who she can always rely on. She says she's tired of H acting like a child. She doesn't trust him anymore. She still loves him, he's her father. But she always comes to me first.
So while it may look like H is getting a free pass, he really isn't. And inside his head, he's going through hell the whole time because he knows how she feels, even tho she hasn't told him. He knows he has let her down.
So while it may look like H is getting a free pass, he really isn't. And inside his head, he's going through hell the whole time because he knows how she feels, even tho she hasn't told him. He knows he has let her down.
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