FT

Hey Peta,

Good to hear you have the Big Plan in place now. It would be great to hear from you more often!

FT

Peta

One more thing

- Before I ask this question let me point out that I have friends in the fellowship and that I have nothing but fond feelings for everyone who helped me and I truly believe they all wanted to see me sober

But - now I've made the decision to never drink again and never change my mind

I have no desire to go to meetings with them or talk to them about 'one day at a time' etc

What did you guys do RE separating ties like this? Did you email/call/tell people face to face that you had found another way and that was working for you??

I dont want to get into specifics with some of my friends because they are in early recovery themselves and based on their own truth they are 'vulnerable'

Of course if they got to the point where they accepted it didnt work for them and approached me I would share my own experience and RR/ARVT with them

Still waiting on my book - the threads and crash course have been a God Send

soberlicious

The only very close friend I had in the program smoked crack after 5 years of abstinence and died.
The others were aquaintances that I sometimes run into here and there and we catch up with chit chat. I have a close friend from treatment that lives about an hour from me and she visits regularly. We have so much fun together and talk alot about life in general, not "recovery" so to speak.
I met a lot of nice folks at double vowels. I would probably still enjoy the meetings, but since I speak from a different paradigm it's a little silly for me to say I'll never drink again and get the hairy eyeball for an hour; not real productive for anyone. There were lots of people I enjoyed listening to and thought they were quite wise about living life, but my aversion to dogma and talking heads ended up outweighing the positives. So there it was. In answer to your question....how you address it depends on how close your friendship is I suppose.

Terminally Unique

Other than a sponsor, who you might want to e-mail or call out of courtesy so she doesn't worry, you can just stop going to meetings. People drop out all the time.

I sent you some other material to read, BTW. If you haven't done so, check your Inbox.

oak

Peta- I have one close friend from groups. I just told her that I found another program that is a better fit for me. She understood and was very supportive. I don't think that just saying another program is a better fit for you could possibly undermine someone else's recovery. But it is considerate of you to be concerned for them. Good luck in whatever you decide to do. (I'm so glad RR is helping you too.)

kanamit

RR encourage that you keep your Big Plan to yourself. This is a good idea, however, it prevents this wonderful method from spreading.

I may be wrong but I say if you have friends in AA keep them and tell them you are self-recovered. They may not believe you now but they probably will in one, two three or more years.

I personally detest the term "dry drunk" so if we can act as walking adverts against this, that's great!

FT

The concept of privacy in sobriety reminds me of "the silent majority". I get the question at times as to why the AVRT concept is so great if everyone isn't doing it. Well, hey, maybe we are.

There are times to speak to this issue effectively, and times when doing so just becomes threatening or intrusive to those who don't want to or aren't ready to listen.

Just like in politics.

FT

Peta

Thanks for your input everyone

I think I will tell the woman who sponsored me in sobriety and my close friend that I'm sober but have found something that works better for me outside of the fellowship

My friend will be fine with it, she knows I was searching and we've discussed that AA isnt for everyone and plenty of people get sober without AA (my Dad has been a non drinker for 13 years, her mums partner made a decision to never drink again at 21 and that was 25 years ago, he has also never been to AA)

My sponsor on the otherhand will no doubt send me a long email about the danger of white knuckling, dry drunking is and how this is a progressive disease etc etc

Thats OK - I know I'm never going to drink again

lostbutterfly

I dropped out of AA to go drinking again. Then I found AVRT about two years later, completely accidentally and have not had a drink since. I have bumped into AA buddies while I was drinking and again now that I am a non-drinker.

I would love to tell them I have found a different way that works better for me, I don't drink anymore and never will, but I know I will just be a dry drunk in their eyes, so I don't say anything. I have nothing but good will towards them, they were there for me when no-one else was.

Now if I met someone who AA wasn't working for, I would tell them about AVRT and RR, without hesitation. Sobriety was a daily, sometimes hourly battle for me, but being a non-drinker is easy.

kanamit

I think we owe it to RR to counter this.

The irony is is that their bitterness towards self-recovered people probably qualifies them to be labelled as the nonsense term "dry drunk".

I'd tell them about RR and if they respond by calling you a DD, simply say that you are sorry that they cannot understand this and that they can either try self-recovery for themselves or work on Step 6 to remove the flaw of bitterness.

Terminally Unique

Unlike some other programs, AVRT has no inherent mandate to spread the word, but neither does it have any prohibition on doing this. I don't know how many people view this thread without ever posting, but I would wager that we have let quite a few people know about AVRT by now. That said, AVRT is the lore of self-recovery, and I think it necessarily contradicts the idea of saving others from themselves.

IAmAbstinent

I'm fidning in the book trimpey is going on rather with the whole AA is evil thing- like hes flogging a dead horse.

It seems like its a personal vendetta.

I understand it would be relevant for those whove been through that program but for me I dont really relate to it and want to get into the practical stuff. Kind of like how he says 'if you are abstinent then why attend and more aa meeting? -for me- if I dont give a crap about going to an AA program why read about it '

Gonna skip ahead I think.

Terminally Unique

How far have you read? I recommend reading straight through, but Part I is essentially deprogramming for people who have previously gone through the treatment turnstile, and Part II is the detailed AVRT course. Part III is advice for families or for people interested in the addiction treatment field. While you could technically skip Part III if it bores you stiff, there is nevertheless a hidden gem in there which I would not skip. On pages 274-291, there is a lengthy transcript of an AVRT session under the heading "The Case of Richard," which is definitely worth reading.

SunshineSally

Hey all, Happy New Year. I've been super busy, glad the thread still going strong. Thanks, TU for your continued wise words and help.

Kanamit--I wrote "not an option" at this thread but got that expression from TU on another thread, who maybe got it from someone else? Can't remember. It's a good one. I'm stepping up my nutritional excellence, too, and definitely am feeling better with time as I continue it.

Peta--I'm also a Christian, traditional church and I feel ARVT goes very well with it. Never tried AA.

LostButterfly--you're doing great! Isn't the difference in mindset amazing? I look back wondering who was that person? I can't imagine going back to that way of life.

kanamit

I read from cover-to-cover the first time round but on all subsequent reads only properly read Part II—plus the case study you cited above.

One of the negative reviews I read on Amazon was that, while the book was effective, it was padded out too much. At first glance, I might agree but I think in reality Jack Trimpey is just being thorough.

Either way, I recommend reading the whole book at a fairly slow pace at least once before forming an opinion.

IAmAbstinent

ye i just got to part 2 and can tell this will be the meat.

The family bit I imagine I would be bored stiff as a not as young as I used to be bachelor but ill take a look at the case study you pointed out.

kanamit

Are you a Dr. Fuhrman fan per chance? I rarely hear that term outside of Nutritarian circles.

SunshineSally

I remember you had mentioned him before. I saw him on PBS, missing part of the lecture but I thought it was excellent. I went to his website out of curiosity and read some of the articles there. I've eaten fairly healthy for a number of years now, figuring out things on my own, but he seems to step it up more. One thing I've changed is no added salt, ordering more carefully in restaurants, and I've upped the amount of green vegetables in my diet. Maybe I picked up the term nutritional excellence from the website or the lecture, I'm not sure.

kanamit

Good for you!

I'm trying to get down in writing the best way of using AVRT to stick to this programme but it's more complicated than simply not drinking.

Thrifty

I am still reading the book and threads and have not made a big plan yet. I am choosing instead to listen to my beast who is telling me to take my time until I completely "get it". My beast is also telling me this is a lot of mumbo jumbo and that I should just chalk it up to another unfulfilled promise of a cure.

I took a break from trying to recognize and separate myself from my beast. I am angry at myself. I'm not looking for support, just whatever advice I can get from those who have experienced something similar. "I" still whole heartedly believe that recognizing the AV is a very rational and effective way to be abstinent. "It" is telling me 500 reasons why it is not and why now is not a good time to stop drinking.