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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 3

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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 3

Old 01-09-2012, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by oak View Post
Has anyone gotten The Art of AVRT that is sold on the RR website? I'm wondering if it has new info on how to use AVRT.
I have the book, and previously posted about it here:
Originally Posted by oak View Post
I had been put off by the term 'beast', so I avoided learning more about RR.
I hope you realize that was your Addictive Voice at work.

Originally Posted by oak View Post
Does anyone else use another term?
"IT"
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:52 PM
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I did the Crash Course on AVRT on the RR website last night. I am amazed at at how good I feel today. I have been having lots of urges to drink in the past month (even though I have not drank for months). To have a day where I feel settled about not drinking ever again is great.

I love the idea of not counting sober time. And it resonates with me to think of addiction as self-indulgent. (even though I also think some people are predisposed to certain addictions)

AVRT seems like a way to externalize addictive thinking. I like the idea of seeing it as other, so that I can remain centered and in control of what I do.

failedtaper- Thanks for your response. I have briefly heard about Tolle's concept of a pain body, but I had never really understood it before. Thanks for the explanation. (and the link) I will listen to it.
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:59 PM
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Terminally Unique- I will check out the link. Thanks.
I'm not sure if it's my AV not liking the term 'beast'. But I will ponder the idea. (or were you referring to avoiding RR)

At any rate, I'm glad I learned more about it.
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by oak View Post
I'm not sure if it's my AV not liking the term 'beast'. But I will ponder the idea. (or were you referring to avoiding RR)
Avoiding RR.

AV:
"See, oak, those RR people who suggest we actually quit drinking use that 'beast' word that you don't like, you better stay away from them for sure."

On another note, strictly speaking, The Beast is not synonymous with The Addictive Voice.

(AV —> Beast = Bark —> Dog)
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:44 AM
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White knuckling/debating

One thing I'd quite like to briefly discuss is willpower/white knuckling/debating with the Beast.

I have to admit I have been caught out several times here and would like to know what the best thing to do is when you make the mistake of entering into a debate with your Beast. I think this is one of the hardest points when you are new to AVRT.

What typically happens is most of the time when the idea of drinking presents itself you objectify it and move on. I very much liked one person's standard reply who posted here when they said their response to the Beast is always "Not an option." I like this as it epitomises the no-nonsense approach AVRT has to addiction.

Sometimes though (at least in my case) I let my defence down slightly and enter into a should I/shouldn't I debate. Each time I end up having to use some sort of willpower because once the debate starts I cannot get out of it. Has anyone got any tips?

I can only describe the feeling as being similar to a flood or vertigo as described in RR. However, simply saying, "that was vertigo" or reenforcing my Big Plan just doesn't cut it. The reason being the Beast has successfully injected a significant amount of self-doubt which undermines all the great techniques in the RR book.

I know in an ideal world you do not let it get to the stage but I think when you're relatively new to this like I am, this is bound to happen.

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to these threads. They serve as a superb supplement to the book.
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Old 01-10-2012, 11:16 AM
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I am new like you and am relishing the feeling of freedom I have since discovering AVRT

The most helpful technique im applying is the addiction diction - in my experience the most difficult part of resisting the drink is when we feel we are the voice or at one with the beast

SO no matter what is going on in your head you have to separate from the beast

I want a drink... I've had such a hard week etc

Has to become IT wants a drink - IT thinks it deserves a drink

Just my 2 cents worth
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Old 01-10-2012, 11:26 AM
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Dealing with other Beast pleasure seeking activity ??


Ok this is a complex subject

I've made a decision never to drink again and not to change my mind

What about when I suspect the Beast trying to get a hold of me in other areas?? How do I know if it's the beast or just an acceptable desire for tasty food, affection etc

Is the distinguishing factor if the desire would have us act in a way that contradicts with our moral compass??

Ie I feel like having sex with my husband (all good and no contradictions there)

Versus I want to pursue the attention I'm receiving from a work colleague because it's pleasurable and exhilarating (this contradicts with my moral and spiritual convictions so it's beasty)

This may not be appropriate on this thread but it's an important topic to discuss somewhere because surely if we give into beast in other areas of or lives beast will grow Stronger in trying to get us to drink as well
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Old 01-10-2012, 11:54 AM
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It is my impression that Beast activity is unlimited. All the basal instincts, urges, desires -- "wants" as opposed to "needs", which can be confusing if you don't separate out those things.

The alcohol craving part of the Beast is just one of its "functions".

This is just my take on it, as I am not an expert on RR.

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Old 01-10-2012, 01:42 PM
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Once something becomes immoral for you, you can use AVRT.

I have found the shifting technique useful for eating healthy foods over junk food but it is hard to make a Big Plan for food as it's a lot more complex than never drinking.

I know Jack Trimpey wrote Taming the Feast Beast but I haven't read it since I don't believe it is in line with the nutritional science I subscribe to.
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by kanamit View Post
Sometimes though (at least in my case) I let my defence down slightly and enter into a should I/shouldn't I debate. Each time I end up having to use some sort of willpower because once the debate starts I cannot get out of it. Has anyone got any tips?
Try leaning into the Beast. Speak to IT directly, saying "I want you to tell me, right now, exactly why I should drink." (you can think this, of course, you don't have to actually talk)

The AV will probably reply with "because it feels good" or some other such obvious nonsense, but most often you won't even get a response, just silence.

If the AV responds with something like "you feel bad, and you don't want to feel that way, do you? drinking will make you feel good," lean into it again and reply with "I will never drink no matter how bad I feel, or for how long I feel bad." The Beast will back down if you mean it.

You can also just simply realize that you are debating with an organ, which is futile. It will never change its survival agenda, regardless of what you say. You wouldn't get into a debate with your gonads, would you?
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:40 PM
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I know this isn't AVRT related but I almost died when I didn't see the "secular connections" forum and didn't know it had only moved. lol

On another note, hung out at a bar for a bit tonight on a date...God, I LOVE the freedom you get from AVRT. Being in a bar would've been a terrifying thing before I knew about AVRT but it wasn't at all with what I've learned...my glass of water was quite delicious even though the bartender probably wasn't a fan of my $0 drink of choice. hahahaha
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DrivenHeart85 View Post
...I almost died when I didn't see the "secular connections" forum and didn't know it had only moved. lol
Yes, I noticed it isn't quite as hidden anymore. Perhaps people will find it on their own, now.

Originally Posted by DrivenHeart85 View Post
...God, I LOVE the freedom you get from AVRT. Being in a bar would've been a terrifying thing before I knew about AVRT but it wasn't at all with what I've learned...
That's right, there is no need to put your life on hold or hide out in a bunker. Go forth and conquer!
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:16 AM
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Is Metallica's song Sad But True referring to the "Beast"?

I have recently started learning about AVRT and i can't help but wonder if James Hetfield is referring to the "AV/Beast" in the song Sad But True...I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to reduce a subject so crucial to peoples recovery to feeble observations. The lyrics just suggest that the lead singer might be aware of this recovery method or maybe it's simply a coincidence...Check the song out and judge for yourself.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
Try leaning into the Beast. Speak to IT directly, saying "I want you to tell me, right now, exactly why I should drink." (you can think this, of course, you don't have to actually talk)

The AV will probably reply with "because it feels good" or some other such obvious nonsense, but most often you won't even get a response, just silence.

If the AV responds with something like "you feel bad, and you don't want to feel that way, do you? drinking will make you feel good," lean into it again and reply with "I will never drink no matter how bad I feel, or for how long I feel bad." The Beast will back down if you mean it.

You can also just simply realize that you are debating with an organ, which is futile. It will never change its survival agenda, regardless of what you say. You wouldn't get into a debate with your gonads, would you?
Thank you, I will bookmark that post.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by DrivenHeart85 View Post
On another note, hung out at a bar for a bit tonight on a date...God, I LOVE the freedom you get from AVRT. Being in a bar would've been a terrifying thing before I knew about AVRT but it wasn't at all with what I've learned...my glass of water was quite delicious even though the bartender probably wasn't a fan of my $0 drink of choice. hahahaha
It's amazing how your perspective on something changes things. Most would see not drinking as deprivation whereas you can easily turn that around to liberation.
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Peta View Post
What about when I suspect the Beast trying to get a hold of me in other areas?? How do I know if it's the beast or just an acceptable desire for tasty food, affection etc

Is the distinguishing factor if the desire would have us act in a way that contradicts with our moral compass??
In a word, yes. Your body will tell you from time to time to do things which are not necessarily in your best interests. This doesn't mean that your body is "bad," since it has no concept of morality, and is therefore innocent. Kind of how my cat is innocent for killing a mouse or a bird, even if she doesn't eat it. The cat is just doing what comes naturally, and has no concept of "I shouldn't kill this bird because even though it is fun, I'm not really hungry." Unlike a cat, though, we have the capacity to recognize that just because something might feel good, it doesn't mean that we should do it.

Originally Posted by Peta View Post
Ie I feel like having sex with my husband (all good and no contradictions there)

Versus I want to pursue the attention I'm receiving from a work colleague because it's pleasurable and exhilarating (this contradicts with my moral and spiritual convictions so it's beasty)
If you have decided that for you, pursuing such attention outside of your marriage is not something that you will do, then you can simply recognize that desire and objectify it as "not you," since you don't do that.

Originally Posted by Peta View Post
...surely if we give into beast in other areas of or lives beast will grow Stronger in trying to get us to drink as well
Although in the past I have found that doing certain things, such as smoking cigarettes, inevitably leads to the AV saying "well, now you've done it, you've smoked, so why not drink, too?", that is easily recognizable. The Beast is ultimately not strong at all, since you hold the cards, and have the last word. That's not to say that it won't try and convince you to drink, but it can't move your muscles and make you drink, only you can do that. If you don't drink, though, then that is that, and who cares what that stupid voice says?
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by kanamit View Post
One thing I'd quite like to briefly discuss is willpower/white knuckling/debating with the Beast.

I have to admit I have been caught out several times here and would like to know what the best thing to do is when you make the mistake of entering into a debate with your Beast. I think this is one of the hardest points when you are new to AVRT.

What typically happens is most of the time when the idea of drinking presents itself you objectify it and move on. I very much liked one person's standard reply who posted here when they said their response to the Beast is always "Not an option." I like this as it epitomises the no-nonsense approach AVRT has to addiction.

Sometimes though (at least in my case) I let my defence down slightly and enter into a should I/shouldn't I debate. Each time I end up having to use some sort of willpower because once the debate starts I cannot get out of it. Has anyone got any tips?

I can only describe the feeling as being similar to a flood or vertigo as described in RR. However, simply saying, "that was vertigo" or reenforcing my Big Plan just doesn't cut it. The reason being the Beast has successfully injected a significant amount of self-doubt which undermines all the great techniques in the RR book.

I know in an ideal world you do not let it get to the stage but I think when you're relatively new to this like I am, this is bound to happen.

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to these threads. They serve as a superb supplement to the book.
I like TU's analogy that disputing issues with the Beast is like arguing with an organ. Ha! Too funny.

Having a "discussion" with the Beast is sort of like arguing String Theory with a cat. The cat may not understand quantum physics, but strings it knows well and will chase them for hours without running out of energy.
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:57 AM
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Just curious on a small point.

Would the effectiveness of RR become degraded if someone who joins in a wedding toast to the bride and groom or if a guest were to complain about the wine one was serving with their meal, to take a small sip to evaluate the taste?

Not a swallow of course as that might well have an effect, but just a tiny bit passing the lips, no more than might be contained in a dessert or filled candy?

In other words, how rigid in application must RR be? There are no sobriety dates, so there's nothing to even consider adjusting after a tiny sipsie, but would that happening at all indicate anything is amiss? Should it be ignored as unimportant to the individual? Should they not tell their RR mates about it and keep it a secret to themselves or is it thought best to be forthright with others?

If that should happen, does it have any meaning at all, and if so ideally what are the best lessons that could be learned from it happening occasionally?
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:14 AM
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I am not an expert on AVRT but, to me, taking a "taste" of wine would not affect my being a non-drinker in the least. It would be a little like a vegetarian deliberately evaluating the quality of the steak tartar, but if you've been a non-drinker long enough, there will be times where you are "accidentally" given alcohol in some form. I've been given drinks in restaurants that I had to taste to see if they were non-alcoholic, if I could not smell it, and therefore reject the drink just like a vegetarian would who tasted a dish that was discovered to have meat in it.

When you are a non-drinker, you are a non-drinker. It's not rocket science, and it's not even a moral issue -- at least for me.

I'm in a profession that involves LOTS of toasting, and it's never been an issue. I do share the toast, and in the absence of sparkling cider, I just lift the glass to my lips without "drinking" it. I've allowed wine to wet my tongue at times in such toasts, but so what? And I've certainly been at thousands of meals where wine was served, and the glass of wine sits next to my glass of water, which I also may not drink. But then I don't eat the sweet potatoes either, even though the hostess may heap them on my plate! I've never been offended about those damn sweet potatoes, but sometimes I've been tempted to complain -- ha!

Now, this question takes on a whole other tone if you start talking about stuff like opiates, for which I have also used a form of AVRT. Opiates serve no real purpose in my universe, except as a medication. No one is likely to pass me a plate of opiates at dinner, and if they did, I would complain loudly.

It might be an interesting, and maybe even amusing story to share with RR mates, nothing more.

I'm not entirely sure I am getting the point of this question. Because to me, in answer to the last part, all of this is pretty meaningless, since this is not a contest but a personal choice.

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Old 01-11-2012, 06:44 AM
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Would I then be correct to assume that allowing a tiny amount of alcohol in with a concious desire or intent to do so would mean little to an AVRT user, on par with unintentionally or accidentally ingesting an equally small amount?
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