IAmAbstinent

Id been thinking that myself.

I find there are these 'zelouts' in every niche.

Perhaps replacing one addiciton with another

FT

Don't let your Addictive Voice convince you that "these 'zealots'" are a good reason for you to continue to drink.

Yes, I suppose you could say that some of us become "addicted" to helping other people. I apologize if I have offended you in some way, rather than drawing you in and making you feel more comfortable with the concepts presented here.

The goal is to help others become non-drinkers, not to make enemies.

FT

Terminally Unique

Living one day at a time comes from the Serenity Prayer, which predates any addiction recovery group by at least several centuries. It has been twisted around and mangled to suggest quitting "just for today."

Terminally Unique

Right now your Beast is undoubtedly attacking AVRT, looking for any reason not to take it seriously, but irrationality is one of the charms of AVRT. The Big Plan is indeed dogmatic, just like the Beast. AVRT is patterned after the Addictive Voice itself, effectively matching it point for point. If by rational, however, we mean "relating to, based on, or agreeable to reason," then the Big Plan certainly is rational. If drinking and/or using have been destroying your life, then it would be perfectly rational to finally knock it off, wouldn't you say?

That's certainly your prerogative, Harambulus, and I won't try and convince you one way or the other. You are free to continue getting high whenever you want, provided you are willing to pay the piper. I'm sure you know by now that the price can get quite steep as time goes on.

Thrifty

Harambulus,, this method seems to make the most sense to me . I am very new to this and have not made my big plan either and still have about 30 pages to go in the RR book. I fully intend to see this through though. I hope you do too. I would like to see how people that have started the same approximate time as me are doing with this.

An issue I seem to be having is that I tend to compare myself way too much with other people, no matter what it is. When drinking, if I drink less than the the guys on the show "Intervention", I think "I'm not that bad, I might as well continue to drink!". If I compare myself to some others on this thread, I see that it took some people a couple of months and rsome people years to finally make a big plan they can stick to. So, I say to myself "See, I shouldn't expect to get this early on... It might take me years to really get it, so I might as well drink until I fell 100 percent committed"

I realize the beast can read and it's pouncing on the opportunity to delay. I can feel 100 percent comitted to a big plan, my beast never will and will never go away. So, if I'm waiting for no AV voice whatsoever when I state my big plan (at least initially), I'll be waiting a very long time. I think it's like everyone said, it's like the diving board.... I need to jump in and set an arbitrary 100percent confidence level and keep recognizing the beast. But the beast sure loves to point out all the people that took months at this.

FT

Hi Thrifty,

To me, the power of the AVRT method lies in the self-determination of the individual. You need not compare yourself with anyone else at all. The Big Plan is your self-commitment to being a non-drinker.

The self-determination part is where YOU decide when you are ready. No one else. No one else's Big Plan makes any difference to you at all.

All the indecision simply means you haven't made the decision to be a non-drinker yet, because if you had, the Big Plan would already be in effect.

Maybe that will happen today.

Terminally Unique

Thrifty,

When using AVRT, it helps to think of yourself as the first person in human history to ever have quit their addiction. This immediately puts things in their proper perspective. What others do with regard to their addiction has no bearing on what you do, and vice versa. Ultimately, although others can help you with some tips and suggestions, AVRT-based recovery is an intensely private affair. You are literally on your own here, but that is not a bad thing.

Terminally Unique

AVRT certainly does get right to the point, and immediately identifies those who haven't had enough yet. I have mixed feelings about this myself, but although I can try and warn people what "might" happen if they don't quit their addiction, the Beast is ultimately undeterred by pain. You really can't "save" people who don't want to be saved, certainly not over an anonymous Internet forum.

The consequences of addiction will inevitably force a breakdown of the mind, or death, whichever comes first. To use some psychological lingo, once someone has finally had enough, a split in the ego will naturally occur, since they will want to quit, but their Beast won't. The Big Plan is a way to force this I/IT split, since the Beast will recoil at the Big Plan and start firing back with both barrels. At that point, the addicted person can start to recognize their AV.

allbrian

I am 4 days sober and just hearing about AVRT. The concept is quite exciting. I don't think AA is for me. Thank you to all the posters on this thread.

kanamit

Good for you! Please, get a copy of Rational Recovery: The New Cure. It will cost less than a drinking session - and afterward you will be well-prepared to be a non-drinker…for life.

Thrifty

TU, I definitely agree that AVRT weeds out the people who have had enough from those that have not. I originally bought the RR book years ago and was so turned off by the never drinking again that I totally dismissed it. Looking back I (or the beast) was just trying to still figure out ways to moderate and any other message was a total turn off. Now I can see that the never again part can actually be totally embraced by me. Its very different then a few years ago. If I would have had the same attitude that i had several years ago, I would probably have dismissed this book once again.

Terminally Unique

Very different... totally embraced... OK... When is the rubber finally going to meet the road?

What is your plan for your future use of alcohol and drugs, Thrifty? Are you going to drink/use again in this lifetime, or are you not?

allbrian

LOL. Just ordered it. There were none available at the local bookstore.

Cocteau

I had a good conversation with Jack Trimpey on Tuesday. In many ways, my opinion of him is even better than before. He's a very generous and compassionate man.

He mentioned his phone counseling service which his webpage has some details about. Since I had experience with AVRT from his books and videos, he was recommending that to save money and time. I was moving forward with that and had given him all my information including a credit card number, but by the end of the call we reviewed my Big Plan and then recommended that we skip the phone counseling services and asked me to call back if I ever had another drink.

That end part of the conversation went something like this:

"What is your plan for the future use of alcohol?"

"I will never drink again and I will never change my mind."

"How certain are you?"

"100%"

"How can you be so certain?"

"Because it's the most immoral thing I can do. Almost every immoral thing I've every done in my life has been while under the influence of alcohol or drugs. I cannot continue doing this to me and my family."

I'll try to write more details later. Right now I've got to go read a book to my daughter.

Terminally Unique

I don't think he's "just in it for the money" like some people say. He gave me permission to use RR materials on here, and he certainly didn't have to do that. I've posted several "tips" that I learned from the Journal of Rational Recovery or from RR forum posts, and which are not in the book, so people are getting a lot of free stuff on here.

kanamit

Agreed. If you listen to him on the radio show I mentioned in another thread you'll find he's a very, very nice guy.

How much is a phone consultation by the way—and how long did it last? Just curious…

Terminally Unique

I have objections to some of Trimpey's stances that run very deep, to the point of being absolutely irreconcilable. Still, I have no doubt in my mind that only someone as principled and determined as he is could have done what he did with RR. I don't recall exactly what he said in response to my disagreements, but it was something along the lines of "agreement between us would be unflattering to both of us." Actions always speak louder than words, and I have to give the man credit.

IAmAbstinent

Good post.

I have found myself doing that alot too.

Some of my common ratioanlisations...

I have never been that partial to alcohol- I pretty much hate it unless on stimulants then I LVOE it. So alcohol wasnt a big thing for me.

As most others in society drinking tho my main rationalization to use stimulants would be 'they haev their fun, everyone has to have something to let loose so I should have mine for mental health reasons'.

Also similar to what you said Id say 'most ppl take stuff faer more than me, I only do it a few times a year'.

----

Last night my beast was having a field day in my dreams. I dreamt I found an ecstacy tablet and was researching online whehter it was a good one or not.

I guess just like we have incest/homosexual dreams (every else does riiiight ?? ) doesnt mean we would want to act them out in real life.

Cocteau

I'll PM you with the information. Since I got a hand slapping for recommending his book in another thread, I don't want it to seem like I'm advertising for him

Regarding TU's point, I entirely agree that Jack's not in it for the money. I highly doubt he's making a killing since his recovery approach is little known. He could have easily taken my money for his services when I spoke to him, but he generously gave me some of his free time and sent me on my way. Please don't take this as a suggestion for people to call him for free advice though; I'm sure he's a busy man like most people.

Thrifty

I will never drink again and I will never change my mind.

Made my big plan.

Another motivating factor for me to do this right now is that I signed up for a 12 week nutritional weight loss program with a consultant. I was pretty shocked to realize that I need to lose about 20 pounds. I didn't think I was that bad. I start a 7 day detox tomorrow to jump start the program. It's all vegetables and some fruits. Obviously no alcohol. I know the beast wouldn't care if I had 100 pounds to lose and my blood pressure was through the roof, the AV is still going to be ruthless.

I know it's not only extremely unhealthy for me to continue to drink, it's extremely immoral for me. If I continue with my lifestyle, something is bound to happen to me sooner rather than later. That will leave my husband and
son to care for me and for my autistic son.

In all my attempts to curb my drinking in the past, I don't think I ever thought about the immorality issue. I always thought of it as something I'm compelled to do and I somehow never thought of the consequences as being my fault. It was as though the consequenses were something happening to me. The "disease mentality".

I agree that Jack seems like a really guy.