cutting back???
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
Hi, chip,
I think you have an excellent and well-thought out plan. You are ambivalent about abstinence--that is normal (I don't like or use the term 'denial').Some people, though not most, do go from heavy drinking to moderate drinking. The problem is recognizing when that is not working for you. So keep posting here for some useful, if tough, feedback. And Moderation Management gives some helpful guidelines for what constitutes moderate drinking.
Many of the responses you're getting here are straight AA philosophy. That isn't the only recovery program around, although all the ones that I know other than MM are abstinence-based. Nevertheless, you might find some of the ideas at other sites useful, so here's a useful link:
http://rrci.net/recovery_spectrum.htm
Take care, and thanks for posting,
Don S
I think you have an excellent and well-thought out plan. You are ambivalent about abstinence--that is normal (I don't like or use the term 'denial').Some people, though not most, do go from heavy drinking to moderate drinking. The problem is recognizing when that is not working for you. So keep posting here for some useful, if tough, feedback. And Moderation Management gives some helpful guidelines for what constitutes moderate drinking.
Many of the responses you're getting here are straight AA philosophy. That isn't the only recovery program around, although all the ones that I know other than MM are abstinence-based. Nevertheless, you might find some of the ideas at other sites useful, so here's a useful link:
http://rrci.net/recovery_spectrum.htm
Take care, and thanks for posting,
Don S
Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Charlotte,NC
Posts: 167
Chip:
Out of curiosity sake, what is your maximum drink rule? Per day, per week, per evening? And by eliminating drunkeness I would assume you mean the falling down in the gutter type of drunk. Since I quit drinking, I kind of find it funny at times hanging around my old drinking buddies. Especially when one guy says the other guy is drunk. In my eyes they usually are all $hitfaced so I'm curious as to what will your gauge be for drunkeness?
Out of curiosity sake, what is your maximum drink rule? Per day, per week, per evening? And by eliminating drunkeness I would assume you mean the falling down in the gutter type of drunk. Since I quit drinking, I kind of find it funny at times hanging around my old drinking buddies. Especially when one guy says the other guy is drunk. In my eyes they usually are all $hitfaced so I'm curious as to what will your gauge be for drunkeness?
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Hmmm...
hi Chip...
Some of the members who replied to your situation must bot have read your post!
Some of us do rant and rave!
We have an ignore button I use.
According to the experts... 2 drinks per day is moderate. Here is the link...
tp://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/booklet.htm
Because I could not do that does not mean you can't.
Good luck...
Some of the members who replied to your situation must bot have read your post!
Some of us do rant and rave!
We have an ignore button I use.
According to the experts... 2 drinks per day is moderate. Here is the link...
tp://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/booklet.htm
Because I could not do that does not mean you can't.
Good luck...
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 675
Originally Posted by chip
Thank you, kind souls, for speaking with me about this issue. I appreciate the canid honesty here, and I'm sure glad I found this site.
In this thread, I made a plan, and this is the end of day 5. I downloaded some "tools" from the "moderation.org" site, which chy recommended. I've been keeping track of my drinks, and I havn't broken my "rules" yet. The moderation program calls for 30 days of abstinence BEFORE starting. I am not stong enough to do the 30 days of abstinence. Instead, I'm focused on cutting back. Yes, this could be a indicator of a HUGE problem, as Earlybird speaks of. I admitted that I'm an alchololic earlier, and I have a very complex and close relationship to alcohol. Yes, I cannot deny that I need help. No, I cannot stop 100%, and continue to lead the life I lead. I think I would be "out of commission"for some time if I where to do that. I am the "boss" of a small company, and I cannot show weakness.
I wouldn't be here if I didn't need help, but this is by no means a low point for me with regards to alcohol abuse. Several years ago, I was homeless. Sometime ago, I used to drink 12 to 18 drinks A DAY!!!!! My current goal of 4 a day is only obtainable now, after years and years of "cutting back". I think I'm on the right track, but....this is a big BUT.....I need to eliminate drunkness and hangovers altogether!!!!
The big question here is....Why not quit %100, and completely abstain?
As I said earlier, I don't feel strong enough to abstain at this point. My reasoning with this whole moderation stragedy is: If the moderation thing doesn't work out....then at least I will have choked my demon enough that it will be weak when I attack it with abstinence. If I eventually work down to 2 drinks a day, and maintain that for a while....if I quit cold turkey from that, I may not have as much of a hard time. If I were to suddenly quit altogether, cold turkey, my body/mind would revolte. I wouldn't be able function, and I am a high functioning individual.
Does any of this make sense to anyone? Many kind folks here tell me to JUST QUIT! I feel my situation is complex, and quiting would jepordize my postion in my community....seriously....If I were to go into rehab, it would hurt my career. Alcohol + Drinking have never hurt my career. In fact, I've built up quite a nice life based on selling alcohol, and I live very well. My income has increased the most during the years which I have drank the heaviest....go figure. I started trying to "control" things, once I hit a peak. I have made major accomplishments in this struggle before coming to this website.
The last battle in this war, is to eliminate drukness and hangovers. I'm here to do that. If my moderation stragedy doesn't work....then I will try abstinence.
For now, I'm keeping my maximimum drink level rule, avoid getting drunk, and keeping my BAC below the legal limit at all times. It's been 5 days since I started this, and although it is a challenge.....right now....I feel I can succed at this challenge without "feeling weird".
One more thing...this whole business of "thinking too much" about drinking, "planning around drinking" etc..... I think everyone here is "obsessed", abstainiee or not. For the time being, I choose to be obsessed with when I take my "ration" of drink (which I enjoy greatly). Like most of you, if I abstained, I'd be obsessed with going to meetings and giving other people advice. Alcohol would still "rule" my life. This isn't meant to be confrontational, it just is how I would obsess over alcohol if I abstained.
chip
In this thread, I made a plan, and this is the end of day 5. I downloaded some "tools" from the "moderation.org" site, which chy recommended. I've been keeping track of my drinks, and I havn't broken my "rules" yet. The moderation program calls for 30 days of abstinence BEFORE starting. I am not stong enough to do the 30 days of abstinence. Instead, I'm focused on cutting back. Yes, this could be a indicator of a HUGE problem, as Earlybird speaks of. I admitted that I'm an alchololic earlier, and I have a very complex and close relationship to alcohol. Yes, I cannot deny that I need help. No, I cannot stop 100%, and continue to lead the life I lead. I think I would be "out of commission"for some time if I where to do that. I am the "boss" of a small company, and I cannot show weakness.
I wouldn't be here if I didn't need help, but this is by no means a low point for me with regards to alcohol abuse. Several years ago, I was homeless. Sometime ago, I used to drink 12 to 18 drinks A DAY!!!!! My current goal of 4 a day is only obtainable now, after years and years of "cutting back". I think I'm on the right track, but....this is a big BUT.....I need to eliminate drunkness and hangovers altogether!!!!
The big question here is....Why not quit %100, and completely abstain?
As I said earlier, I don't feel strong enough to abstain at this point. My reasoning with this whole moderation stragedy is: If the moderation thing doesn't work out....then at least I will have choked my demon enough that it will be weak when I attack it with abstinence. If I eventually work down to 2 drinks a day, and maintain that for a while....if I quit cold turkey from that, I may not have as much of a hard time. If I were to suddenly quit altogether, cold turkey, my body/mind would revolte. I wouldn't be able function, and I am a high functioning individual.
Does any of this make sense to anyone? Many kind folks here tell me to JUST QUIT! I feel my situation is complex, and quiting would jepordize my postion in my community....seriously....If I were to go into rehab, it would hurt my career. Alcohol + Drinking have never hurt my career. In fact, I've built up quite a nice life based on selling alcohol, and I live very well. My income has increased the most during the years which I have drank the heaviest....go figure. I started trying to "control" things, once I hit a peak. I have made major accomplishments in this struggle before coming to this website.
The last battle in this war, is to eliminate drukness and hangovers. I'm here to do that. If my moderation stragedy doesn't work....then I will try abstinence.
For now, I'm keeping my maximimum drink level rule, avoid getting drunk, and keeping my BAC below the legal limit at all times. It's been 5 days since I started this, and although it is a challenge.....right now....I feel I can succed at this challenge without "feeling weird".
One more thing...this whole business of "thinking too much" about drinking, "planning around drinking" etc..... I think everyone here is "obsessed", abstainiee or not. For the time being, I choose to be obsessed with when I take my "ration" of drink (which I enjoy greatly). Like most of you, if I abstained, I'd be obsessed with going to meetings and giving other people advice. Alcohol would still "rule" my life. This isn't meant to be confrontational, it just is how I would obsess over alcohol if I abstained.
chip
You have "justified and reasoned" your way to into believing something so bizzare, that you wont believe it yourself one day if you ever get sober if you look back and remember this post. I suggest you save it. I know I will.
You being a success has nothing to do with drinking. You keep saying "I cant stop" and "Dont have the strength to stop" but you havent even tried. GO TO MEETINGS. Thats what they are there for. To give you the support you need to stay sober. Because believe me, pal, in a little while, you are going to wish to God that you had stopped now rather than later. Welcome to the wonderful world of seizures, delirium tremens, and auditory and visual hallucinations. You need to get a support base and quit all together. But you still WANT to drink dont you? Just admit it. It hasnt done enough damage yet. This site isnt for helping you drink without the pesky hangovers. Its for SOBRIETY. And the people with the guts to TRY it. Im sorry if I sound harsh but Im worried about you. I hate to think that out there is someone so blind to what they are doing and how useless and a waste of time your "trying moderation" theory is. Listen carefully.....IT.....CANT.....BE.....DONE. Its been proven. Do you want a life of constantly having to remind yourself to NOT have that one-more-drink so you dont get drunk or have hangovers even though you WANT THAT NEXT DRINK REEEEAAAL BAD? Where the hell is the social enjoyment in that???
Community Greeter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Mid-Life Express
Posts: 9,930
I managed to drink two glasses of wine and one small glass of JD or wild turkey for two years. Big crisis came and I started over and it became much worse than before.....I have friends who have done . I don't think I'll try again, I am much stronger now yet anyone can fall back into the drunk pit.
indigo
indigo
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 675
Originally Posted by Indigo
I managed to drink two glasses of wine and one small glass of JD or wild turkey for two years. Big crisis came and I started over and it became much worse than before.....I have friends who have done . I don't think I'll try again, I am much stronger now yet anyone can fall back into the drunk pit.
indigo
indigo
Maybe you HAVE to change professions. Isnt that worth saving your life?? What good is keeping your bar if you die of alcoholism? Kind of poetically ironic sounding, isnt it?
Community Greeter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Mid-Life Express
Posts: 9,930
Oh I hhave no illusions or desire to drink/drug anymore and yes my friends might change at any moment....I'm a drunk and an addict and I'm on HOLD and I hope forever....nobody can say. I was a happy drinker and drugger, my mind, spirit and body say NO. that is not in a particular order. Addiction is soo bad for me, I try not to look back. I don't fool myself anymore, just saying moderate drinking does not work for me....I can only speak for myself and give examples of a few people.
namasté
indigo
namasté
indigo
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
Originally Posted by earlybird
All I can say is.......Oh My God. I have never heard of such pure self-manipulation is my life.
You have "justified and reasoned" your way to into believing something so bizzare, that you wont believe it yourself one day if you ever get sober if you look back and remember this post. I suggest you save it. I know I will.
You being a success has nothing to do with drinking. You keep saying "I cant stop" and "Dont have the strength to stop" but you havent even tried. GO TO MEETINGS. Thats what they are there for. To give you the support you need to stay sober. Because believe me, pal, in a little while, you are going to wish to God that you had stopped now rather than later. Welcome to the wonderful world of seizures, delirium tremens, and auditory and visual hallucinations. You need to get a support base and quit all together. But you still WANT to drink dont you? Just admit it. It hasnt done enough damage yet. This site isnt for helping you drink without the pesky hangovers. Its for SOBRIETY. And the people with the guts to TRY it. Im sorry if I sound harsh but Im worried about you. I hate to think that out there is someone so blind to what they are doing and how useless and a waste of time your "trying moderation" theory is. Listen carefully.....IT.....CANT.....BE.....DONE. Its been proven. Do you want a life of constantly having to remind yourself to NOT have that one-more-drink so you dont get drunk or have hangovers even though you WANT THAT NEXT DRINK REEEEAAAL BAD? Where the hell is the social enjoyment in that???
You have "justified and reasoned" your way to into believing something so bizzare, that you wont believe it yourself one day if you ever get sober if you look back and remember this post. I suggest you save it. I know I will.
You being a success has nothing to do with drinking. You keep saying "I cant stop" and "Dont have the strength to stop" but you havent even tried. GO TO MEETINGS. Thats what they are there for. To give you the support you need to stay sober. Because believe me, pal, in a little while, you are going to wish to God that you had stopped now rather than later. Welcome to the wonderful world of seizures, delirium tremens, and auditory and visual hallucinations. You need to get a support base and quit all together. But you still WANT to drink dont you? Just admit it. It hasnt done enough damage yet. This site isnt for helping you drink without the pesky hangovers. Its for SOBRIETY. And the people with the guts to TRY it. Im sorry if I sound harsh but Im worried about you. I hate to think that out there is someone so blind to what they are doing and how useless and a waste of time your "trying moderation" theory is. Listen carefully.....IT.....CANT.....BE.....DONE. Its been proven. Do you want a life of constantly having to remind yourself to NOT have that one-more-drink so you dont get drunk or have hangovers even though you WANT THAT NEXT DRINK REEEEAAAL BAD? Where the hell is the social enjoyment in that???
There is nothing wrong with your plan as long as you are honest with yourself and get feedback from others (a chat with your doctor might be in order, and periodic physical exams). It CAN be done. THAT has been proven. People DO go from heavy drinking to moderate drinking. There is not some inevitable progression. Most people who have drunk heavily find it hard to drink moderately. But not all, and all these blanket statements that are being thrown around here are just not true.
Most people here have found that abstinence is their best choice for a lot of reasons--reasons which vary as much as our drinking habits do. I'd suggest you consider that as your longterm goal, and be careful if you notice your drinking increasing. MM proposes thirty days abstinence before trying moderate drinking for good reasons. So I'd mark your calendar for a date to give that a try. It will be uncomfortable but not unbearable. That's the key belief you need to change: it is possible, it is not unbearable.
Take care,
Don S
It is what it is!!!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sobriety
Posts: 5,767
For now, I'm keeping my maximimum drink level rule, avoid getting drunk, and keeping my BAC below the legal limit at all times. It's been 5 days since I started this, and although it is a challenge.....right now....I feel I can succed at this challenge without "feeling weird".
Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Charlotte,NC
Posts: 167
I've heard 100 times at meetings that a drug is a drug is a drug. Booze, meth, cocaine, herion, you name it they are all the same. A lot of AA meetings I have attended usually have NAs in attendance and they are usually the most adamant about this concept. Kicking one drug is the same as the other.
If you agree with this premise, then how wise would it be to condone using other narcotics in moderation the same as you would alcohol? Forget about about the legality of booze and other drugs, just consider using them and the effects on a person.
Substitute the word a drink for a line of cocaine. I would like to cut back to a couple of lines of coke a day. Or I'll wait until I get get off from work to smoke a crack pipe.
Basically then there is nothing wrong with going from a heavy narcotic user to a moderate user just as there is nothing wrong with doing it with booze.
It seems illogical to even suggest that this is possible after years of abuse. Unless someone can point me in the direction of a Crystal Meth in Moderation wed site, I kind of believe that these sites give false hope. Once you have turned into a pickle there is no going back to being a cucumber.
If you agree with this premise, then how wise would it be to condone using other narcotics in moderation the same as you would alcohol? Forget about about the legality of booze and other drugs, just consider using them and the effects on a person.
Substitute the word a drink for a line of cocaine. I would like to cut back to a couple of lines of coke a day. Or I'll wait until I get get off from work to smoke a crack pipe.
Basically then there is nothing wrong with going from a heavy narcotic user to a moderate user just as there is nothing wrong with doing it with booze.
It seems illogical to even suggest that this is possible after years of abuse. Unless someone can point me in the direction of a Crystal Meth in Moderation wed site, I kind of believe that these sites give false hope. Once you have turned into a pickle there is no going back to being a cucumber.
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
'A drug is a drug is a drug' is not true. Alcohol isn't coke or pot; they all have different effects on the brain and body. They aren't all the same.
I have no idea whether there are meth or coke users who go from heavy to moderate use. There are many heavy alcohol users who reduce their drinking, simply by 'aging out', or by making conscious decisions about the legal, social, personal, or medical costs.
I am not being illogical or giving false hope. It is probably true that the more heavily you have used the more difficult it is to drink moderately. The amount of effort and thinking that Chip is putting into this is indicative of that. But it also indicates that he is thinking this through and putting a plan of action in place. The all-or-nothing thinking advocated by various 12 step programs has no scientific basis and there are plenty of studies that show otherwise, at least with respect to alcohol.
Don S
I have no idea whether there are meth or coke users who go from heavy to moderate use. There are many heavy alcohol users who reduce their drinking, simply by 'aging out', or by making conscious decisions about the legal, social, personal, or medical costs.
I am not being illogical or giving false hope. It is probably true that the more heavily you have used the more difficult it is to drink moderately. The amount of effort and thinking that Chip is putting into this is indicative of that. But it also indicates that he is thinking this through and putting a plan of action in place. The all-or-nothing thinking advocated by various 12 step programs has no scientific basis and there are plenty of studies that show otherwise, at least with respect to alcohol.
Don S
Getting Restored To Sanity
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 179
My question is this: Does anybody go from being a heavy drinker, to a light or social drinker? The impression I'm getting is that most others manage to get it under control only by quitting. I'm not sure I'm ready to quit, yet.
I remember a control drinker (alcoholic) in my AA meeting tell of the awful horror of control drinking. He told us it was a form of torture. And he did it for years, miserable all the way.
In any event, good luck with your experiment. I hope you can control your drinking successfully. You may want to take this quiz to see if you might be alcoholic. Actually what you are doing is suggested in the big book of AA.
http://www.aahistory.com/cgi-bin/qui...gi?20questions
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
Controlled drinking - that was what CONVINCED me that I can never drink again.
I gave up drinking altogether 20 years ago when Mr. BigSis and I decided to have kids. Didn't use a program - just changed everything in our lives.... different friends, different playgrounds. Looked around at my family of origin and realized we were all alcoholic. Thought raising kids in a sober home was 1. the right thing to do and 2. would stop the cycle of addiction in our family. I was half right.... turns out the cycle of addiction may have a genetic base. But a sober home probably was better for the kids in any case.
BUT - after 20 years of not drinking, I got into a 12-step program because both kids are addicts.
After being there a while, it occured to me to think about how I drank before I 'quit for the quality of my family' (yeah, right - not because I was a drunk.... grin).
I would order a cup of coffee with every drink.
I would start the order with a 16 oz. glass of water, little ice.
I would finish the drink, the coffee AND the water before reordering.....
I still could not drink LESS than four drinks per hour, and yes, that includes bathroom time.
I could not drink 3 drinks. - And that 3-drink world is my favorite!!! But I could only see it in retrospect - AFTER I overshot the runway.
I could not predict my drinking. I thought I would stop off with the girls after work for one or two.... and sometimes have one or two and go home. But more often, we just closed the place.
Drinking made dating easy.... or maybe drinking made ME easy. Either way, once I considered how would my life look if I became single again.... I got scared. I can't drink, I know that now. But I also don't have a plan for not drinking other than in teamwork with my husband. When that team gets unstable.... so does my sobriety.
So I attend AA.... and find I fit like a hand in a glove.
Chip - I wish you all the best. Everyone gets sober when they are supposed to. I hope your time can be soon and life can be enjoyable for you.
I gave up drinking altogether 20 years ago when Mr. BigSis and I decided to have kids. Didn't use a program - just changed everything in our lives.... different friends, different playgrounds. Looked around at my family of origin and realized we were all alcoholic. Thought raising kids in a sober home was 1. the right thing to do and 2. would stop the cycle of addiction in our family. I was half right.... turns out the cycle of addiction may have a genetic base. But a sober home probably was better for the kids in any case.
BUT - after 20 years of not drinking, I got into a 12-step program because both kids are addicts.
After being there a while, it occured to me to think about how I drank before I 'quit for the quality of my family' (yeah, right - not because I was a drunk.... grin).
I would order a cup of coffee with every drink.
I would start the order with a 16 oz. glass of water, little ice.
I would finish the drink, the coffee AND the water before reordering.....
I still could not drink LESS than four drinks per hour, and yes, that includes bathroom time.
I could not drink 3 drinks. - And that 3-drink world is my favorite!!! But I could only see it in retrospect - AFTER I overshot the runway.
I could not predict my drinking. I thought I would stop off with the girls after work for one or two.... and sometimes have one or two and go home. But more often, we just closed the place.
Drinking made dating easy.... or maybe drinking made ME easy. Either way, once I considered how would my life look if I became single again.... I got scared. I can't drink, I know that now. But I also don't have a plan for not drinking other than in teamwork with my husband. When that team gets unstable.... so does my sobriety.
So I attend AA.... and find I fit like a hand in a glove.
Chip - I wish you all the best. Everyone gets sober when they are supposed to. I hope your time can be soon and life can be enjoyable for you.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 675
Originally Posted by chip
At the height of my alcoholism, I was drinking first thing in the morning...and then drinking all day.
Chip has already admitted he was an alcoholic. Alcoholics can NEVER drink normally again. That has NEVER BEEN PROVEN to be wrong. I challenge anyone to show me an admitted alcoholic who has transformed themselves into a normal, social, drinker with no more problems in life due to their drinking.
Chip,...you seem to be missing the biggest point here, completely.
That is, if you have to formulate some sort of scheme, or plan to be able to drink safely, because you dont trust yourself with alcohol, then you HAVE A PROBLEM. Normal drinkers dont have to limit themselves or come up with "drinking plans". Why is continuing to drink so damn important to you that you are willing to put yourself and the ones you love through this? You refuse to view a life without drinking as even an option. Why is that? That very fact should tell you something. The fact that a life with not drinking is totally out of the question for you should raise a trillion red flags in your mind. How can you miss that???
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 675
The AUTHOR of the book "Moderate Drinking"....gets a, yup, you guessed it, a DUI
Fatal wreck shatters `moderate drinking' illusions: Charged in two deaths, Woodinville author has new views on alcohol. 2000-06-20. Associated Press-
WOODINVILLE -- The founder of a national movement which teaches that problem drinkers can drink in moderation has changed her mind after being charged with drunken driving and vehicular homicide in a crash that killed two, her attorney said. Audrey Kishline, 43, of Woodinville, has been charged with two counts of vehicular homicide in a March 25 head-on crash that killed Richard Davis and his daughter, LaSchell, on Interstate 90 near Cle Elum. Prosecutors allege that Kishline, author of the book ``Moderate Drinking,'' had a blood alcohol content of 0.26 at the time of the accident, more than three times the legal limit in Washington. Kishline's 1994 book is the handbook of the national, nonprofit ``Moderation Management'' movement, which aims at reducing the drinking of those who have experienced mild to moderate alcohol-related problems but are not alcoholics, according to promotional materials. But the accident and subsequent alcohol treatment have made Kishline realize that ``moderation management is nothing but alcoholics covering up their problem,'' said her attorney, John Crowley of Seattle. Kishline also was charged with drunken driving and hit-and-run driving. Her trial was scheduled to begin today in Kittitas County Superior Court, but was postponed until late September at Crowley's request, Deputy Prosecutor Margaret Sowards said.
Crowley said Kishline is ``extremely remorseful'' and carries the photos of the two victims with her. ``She doesn't feel sorry for herself,'' Crowley said. ``Her thoughts are with the victim's families and her own two children.'' Kishline is receiving substance-abuse treatment at a facility in western Oregon. She will receive treatment at the facility until July 8, Crowley said. He said Kishline plans to write more on drinking if she goes to prison, but this time the writing will deal with how moderation is not an option for people with serious drinking problems. ``She's a strong woman,'' Crowley said. ``She doesn't plan to fight the consequences.''
WOODINVILLE -- The founder of a national movement which teaches that problem drinkers can drink in moderation has changed her mind after being charged with drunken driving and vehicular homicide in a crash that killed two, her attorney said. Audrey Kishline, 43, of Woodinville, has been charged with two counts of vehicular homicide in a March 25 head-on crash that killed Richard Davis and his daughter, LaSchell, on Interstate 90 near Cle Elum. Prosecutors allege that Kishline, author of the book ``Moderate Drinking,'' had a blood alcohol content of 0.26 at the time of the accident, more than three times the legal limit in Washington. Kishline's 1994 book is the handbook of the national, nonprofit ``Moderation Management'' movement, which aims at reducing the drinking of those who have experienced mild to moderate alcohol-related problems but are not alcoholics, according to promotional materials. But the accident and subsequent alcohol treatment have made Kishline realize that ``moderation management is nothing but alcoholics covering up their problem,'' said her attorney, John Crowley of Seattle. Kishline also was charged with drunken driving and hit-and-run driving. Her trial was scheduled to begin today in Kittitas County Superior Court, but was postponed until late September at Crowley's request, Deputy Prosecutor Margaret Sowards said.
Crowley said Kishline is ``extremely remorseful'' and carries the photos of the two victims with her. ``She doesn't feel sorry for herself,'' Crowley said. ``Her thoughts are with the victim's families and her own two children.'' Kishline is receiving substance-abuse treatment at a facility in western Oregon. She will receive treatment at the facility until July 8, Crowley said. He said Kishline plans to write more on drinking if she goes to prison, but this time the writing will deal with how moderation is not an option for people with serious drinking problems. ``She's a strong woman,'' Crowley said. ``She doesn't plan to fight the consequences.''
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
But....
Ms. Kisline had recanted her book...left the MM program months before the accident.
She was back to attending AA....as she had done before MM.
And she did go to prison...I have forgotten for how long.
Sad story indeed.
She was back to attending AA....as she had done before MM.
And she did go to prison...I have forgotten for how long.
Sad story indeed.
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
earlybird, your statements are just incorrect. I'd be happy to continue this discussion on another one of the forums here--Alcoholism, or Recovery in General. The Newcomers forum is not the place for it. But neither is it the place for absolute statements of the sort you've been posting in this thread. See you there if you're interested.
Don S
Don S
Paused
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Washington
Posts: 5,093
Most of us have been there done that. We know that if we are alcoholic, we can not succeed at moderate drinking. There is no such thing for us. This is something Chip will have to figure out on his own. I hope you figure it out soon. Then you can begin your journey to recovery. Good luck...
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
