Tetrax

I think you've hit the nail on the head. My issue is the fact that this sort of programme does feel 'progressive' (in the current political climate). Even though it is no doubt harmful for most.

Steely

Selling harm minimisation from what I can work out. 🤑

Agree with what Advike had to say, Tough Choices, and Dee's "all kinds of nope."

Didn't work for me, and never will.

I think, from what I've read intervention (minimisation) has a chance of working when young, and behaviours not so entrenched. Neurological pathways more open to plasticity.

But what would I know, outside of me just needing to stop? And it's better than I could have ever imagined. And even though there's still a lot of suck going on in my life.

A drink will never stop the suck. This much I do know.

Bottomed

I agree with you that alcoholism is linked to OCD. Every alcoholic, I , personally have known has had OCD. Although everyone with OCD is not an alcoholic.
I wouldn't touch that freedom movement though. I've loooong given up the delusion of moderation. All or nothing, just unfortunate I sometimes chose the all.

Steely

Good on you Bottomed.

Embrace sobriety, Bottomed. It's really all we ever wanted.

sugarbear1

AA is free and considered to be a non-profit organization. This Freedom Program is a for-profit organization. Does it work? I hope so and I'd like to learn more. Thanks for sharing this!!

Those 12 steps saved my life.

Zencat

I did not do a proper investigation of FP at first. My bad

Moderation may or not work for some. IMO FP reads like cult brainwash programming by superior monitors.

Not for me. I'd rather have a lobotomy that trying to moderate a whisky bottle in front of me.

fini

i think we had Steven Slate, one of the founders, post in the secular section a few years back in a thread about it.
somebody could probably find it.

fini

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/secular-exploration-different-recovery-methods/423870-freedom-model-addictions-slate-scheeren.html#post6797214 (The Freedom Model for Addictions - 2)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/6819616-post1.html

not sure these work as intended. anyway, go to explorations of secular alternatives category under secular farther down, and you’ll find them quickly

fini

Steven Slate shows up around post 85 in the Freedom Model for Addictions - 2 thread.

DriGuy

All I get is the first post of the thread, and then it freezes up, and I can't read on, but I think we've already figured out it's not going to work for the vast majority of alcoholics. I always read these "you can drink like a normie systems of recovery" and wonder what's behind them. Are they outright scams or are they programs with good intentions started by those normies who we freqently meet in life that tell us to "just control our drinking." It makes sense that some of these normies actually believe that alcoholics can learn to control, because they can do it themselves without giving it a thought, so they project that on the rest of us.

DriGuy

It's not progressive. It's regressive, as it promotes failures of past ignorance and misunderstanding. Knowledge and help for alcoholics is still struggling to find it's way out of a dark past. We are making progress, but we are hardly out of the woods.

DriGuy

Here is Steven Slate's current website, where he defends his methodology by using some reasonable criticisms of current controversial ideas about alcoholism, to set the stage for selling his product. However, criticisms of particular issues of other programs, whether true or not, don't necessarily invalidate an entire program. But most of all, they don't validate his particular methodology either.

I didn't read far enough to get to his thoughts on controlled drinking, although I did read his entire introduction. But I probably won't research this further, unless someone points out that this is indeed a valid and safe program of recovery. I'll let it go as "probably not worth my personal time" for now. I'm not sure if he still believes alcoholics can control their drinking. Isn't "a person who cannot control his drinking" the actual definition of an alcoholic, or at least part of a more complete definition?

https://www.thecleanslate.org/about-2/

novips

It comes down to what works. For some meaningful number of people, the choice comes down to whether it is preferable to (1) die an alcoholic death in exchange for the privilege of sneering at people of faith or (2) live a sober life in exchange for keeping an open mind. Cf. Big Book, p. 46 ("We found that as soon as we were able to lay aside prejudice and express even a willingness to believe in a Power greater than ourselves, we commenced to get results ....").

Scott2295

I hadn’t heard of this but did a quick check. From their website: “The Freedom Model debunks all the addiction and recovery myths so you can happily choose any one of three options: continue to use heavily, use moderately (whatever that means to you), or abstain - and freely choose your options based on facts and confidence,” Lets look at the choices. Use heavily. Hum, done that. It would kill me if I continued. Use moderately. Tried that for many years and always led back to use heavily which would kill me. Abstain. That’s been working pretty good for me. I think I’ll keep that one. It sounds like a means to sell books. Nothing will enable me to use moderately and not lead back to use heavily. My freedom is freedom from alcohol and it is my free choice to do so.

DriGuy

Bingo, I was searching for that when I was trying to figure out what was meant by the "Freedom Method." Freedom from alcohol is all I need.

ToughChoices

This is such an interesting topic. Mr. Slate (program co-founder) voices the opinion that "addiction" and "recovery" are both entirely constructs (and unhelpful ones, at that!). He feels that people use substances because they like the effect of the substance. FULL STOP. He thinks they may make choices that don't align with society's values because of their affection for the substances' effects, and that is why society labels them as "addicts." He doesn't think it means heavy users are diseased or broken. They are simply making the choices they feel are best for themselves.

I suppose that we are all making the choices that we feel are best for us, but often our thinking is ****** up. Substance use clouds my decision-making processes. It puts intense value on the short-term benefits of use vs. the long-term benefits of restraint. And the longer that someone engages in use, the harder it is to break out of the short-term focus. To me, that is addiction. It is the choice to sacrifice future happiness in favor of the current status quo.

I guess you don't HAVE to label it addiction, if you don't want to, but it is harmful. It does hurt relationships, physical bodies, and society. To me, that means action is required if improvement is desired. And action is not reassuring people that there is nothing wrong with their choices. It is not telling people it is fine to continue their use.

It is absolutely an individual's choice to continue or stop in their drug use, but I feel it irresponsible to act as though both options are equally valid.

overforty

I just had a quick look at it so I know very little about it.
I think that whatever works for you is the appropriate response.
I'm not a fan of recovery programmes or groups or methods set in stone or steps - but I do believe it works for other people to have something they believe in.
I believe in taking in as much information as possible from all angles and applying what I think is sustainable for me.

Moderate drinking isn't something I've ever been able to do over the last 3 decades and I've almost surrendered to the fact that I can never drink again.
But then life happens.
I think a method that promises alcoholics that they may be able to drink 'moderately' again will make a lot of money - I'm sure there will be results too from people that are not alcoholics!
We're all problem drinkers here but for some of us moderation isn't an option.
I'm an example of that- I only speak for myself.

Carlotta

I am with Dee on that one.

I am a big proponent of having awareness of different programs and many tools in your belt but something like that, you got to ask yourself whether you like the "science" behind it or if the idea of moderate drinking is something which gets your AV jumping up and down and doing cartwheels.

As someone who "controlled" her drinking for years and went to many lengths to hide it during her relapse, it was absolutely exhausting and messing me up mentally (and physically). The only freedom I found was from complete abstinence.

AA is not the only free or donation based method/program if you don't click with the spiritual aspect. There are also Women for Sobriety, SMART, Refuge Recovery, Dharma Recovery, SMART, Lifering, SOS, Secular Recovery and good old AVRT if you are a loner.

I'd encourage people who don't click with AA to explore those, lots of good stuff in all of them. What they all have in common is that they are abstinence based.

Zencat

Structured controlled drinking therapy sounds good. Unfortunately I tested the freedom scheme to no avail. The freedom model turned into the suffering model for me. Others may have better luck with it.

samwitch

Oh, agreed, Didn't see that part.