Relapse AGAIN!!!!! So ridiculous
Member
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Canada
Posts: 400
Hi Ruby and welcome to SR 
I've been trying to quit drinking for decades and have done a lot of reading about the topic. I've never seen your situation with suicide and alcohol. Dual diagnoses have to be tough, specially when it's this serious.
My way of handling my addiction this time after many tries over the years, was to change the way I think about alcohol. After about five or six months of a lot of work on this I've managed to get to the point where I just don't need it anymore. I'm still mindful of not letting any thoughts of drinking take root, but it's become pretty easy now. Once I had been alcohol free for a couple of months I started working on other issues in my life that I wanted to change and that is still a work in progress and will probably never end.
My first thought about your situation is there has to be a way to handle the suicidal thoughts that doesn't involve drinking, but I have not been where you are nor have I read anything about it. One thing I know for sure is that no one solution to addiction will work for everyone. I also believe the majority of people with addictions get past them on their own and go on with their lives successfully. Some people die from them. It's complicated, there are no easy answers and there are a lot of techniques out there that help people quit and stay quit.
What is working for me is I quit drinking and once the 'alcoholic fog' lifted I started working on other issues. I also could not moderate my drinking, it just didn't work for me. Having said that, in my travels I've come across The Freedom Model for Addiction. I read the book and found it very interesting. They don't promote moderation but they offer techniques they claim can work for some people. My very simplified takeaway from the book in a nutshell is that if you can get past drinking for the high, you can learn to moderate. I can't do that, but it might help you. Knowing yourself well and being totally honest with yourself will of course be a really big help with this.
Or if you have not already you could get a second opinion from another Phsych.
Best of luck with it all Ruby!
I've been trying to quit drinking for decades and have done a lot of reading about the topic. I've never seen your situation with suicide and alcohol. Dual diagnoses have to be tough, specially when it's this serious.
My way of handling my addiction this time after many tries over the years, was to change the way I think about alcohol. After about five or six months of a lot of work on this I've managed to get to the point where I just don't need it anymore. I'm still mindful of not letting any thoughts of drinking take root, but it's become pretty easy now. Once I had been alcohol free for a couple of months I started working on other issues in my life that I wanted to change and that is still a work in progress and will probably never end.
My first thought about your situation is there has to be a way to handle the suicidal thoughts that doesn't involve drinking, but I have not been where you are nor have I read anything about it. One thing I know for sure is that no one solution to addiction will work for everyone. I also believe the majority of people with addictions get past them on their own and go on with their lives successfully. Some people die from them. It's complicated, there are no easy answers and there are a lot of techniques out there that help people quit and stay quit.
What is working for me is I quit drinking and once the 'alcoholic fog' lifted I started working on other issues. I also could not moderate my drinking, it just didn't work for me. Having said that, in my travels I've come across The Freedom Model for Addiction. I read the book and found it very interesting. They don't promote moderation but they offer techniques they claim can work for some people. My very simplified takeaway from the book in a nutshell is that if you can get past drinking for the high, you can learn to moderate. I can't do that, but it might help you. Knowing yourself well and being totally honest with yourself will of course be a really big help with this.
Or if you have not already you could get a second opinion from another Phsych.
Best of luck with it all Ruby!
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,444
Welcome Ruby
Thats quite a bind.
I’m sorry Ruby but, if this is an accurate retelling of what your Dr said, you need a new Doctor.
Alcohol is not a suitable prescription for suicidal ideation.
No one needs alcohol.
I think a lot of us were terrified about change, but support helps
If you cannot socialise without alcohol you can work on that….there are folks here socialising without alcohol and living full happy lives.
It may mean some wholesale changes in your social life, changes in who you hang around with, and changes in your idea of fun. I understand how scary that is - and why a ‘solution’ of controlled drinking sounds more palatable…but it’s pie in the sky, Ruby.
If you’re an alcoholic like me though you won’t be able to control your drinking, no matter how strong we are or our willpower.
After one drink all bets are off…anything could happen….and again if you’re like me, it usually does.
I’m not trying to rile you or scare you, but the only way I beat alcoholism was to not drink at all.
D
Interesting you say that as my Psych says abstinence is not safe or appropriate for me (I get suicidal when I miss not being part of social activity) for me as it's a huge part of my life - suggestion is a drinking plan but be strict and accountable to it.
I’m sorry Ruby but, if this is an accurate retelling of what your Dr said, you need a new Doctor.
Alcohol is not a suitable prescription for suicidal ideation.
No one needs alcohol.
I think a lot of us were terrified about change, but support helps
If you cannot socialise without alcohol you can work on that….there are folks here socialising without alcohol and living full happy lives.
It may mean some wholesale changes in your social life, changes in who you hang around with, and changes in your idea of fun. I understand how scary that is - and why a ‘solution’ of controlled drinking sounds more palatable…but it’s pie in the sky, Ruby.
If you’re an alcoholic like me though you won’t be able to control your drinking, no matter how strong we are or our willpower.
After one drink all bets are off…anything could happen….and again if you’re like me, it usually does.
I’m not trying to rile you or scare you, but the only way I beat alcoholism was to not drink at all.
D
Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,909
my Psych says abstinence is not safe or appropriate for me
I don’t view myself as practicing abstinence because I don’t need to be restrained from using alcohol. My past made it very clear to me that I no longer wished to live that way, so today I freely make the choice not to, with no pressure or restraining whatsoever. It is one I make gladly and with no reservations or loss of pleasure whatsoever.
AA made me worse. I met some people I didn't really want to be associated with and some of the teachings simply aren't my thing
Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 524
Alcohol is such a destructive chemical poison to the mind (as well as the body), that I cannot see a situation where a Dr, in particular a Dr who specialises in the mind, would suggest you continue to drink. It actually causes suicidal ideation in people who abuse it, it doesn't lessen suicidal thoughts. Alcohol in fact is so detrimental to ones mind that pysc doctors for the NHS in England will not treat people under the influence of alcohol, you simply can't get a referral to be seen by one until you sober up. So either you haven't told him the full story of your alcohol abuse so he does not understand the gravity of the issue, or you need a new Dr because your current one has some warped view on alcohol and the effects.
From your posts, you sound like a typical case of an alcoholic / alcohol dependent person, and in this case the only answer is abstinence. Moderation is impossible. The quicker you can accept this and build a life without alcohol, the better and less pain you will go through. It took me many relapses before I accepted that I cannot drink safely. I would be sober for a month or two and think I have it nailed. I still might not have it nailed, I am not out of the woods either myself. I have one drink and I then want many drinks, and then all the consequences begin again.
From your posts, you sound like a typical case of an alcoholic / alcohol dependent person, and in this case the only answer is abstinence. Moderation is impossible. The quicker you can accept this and build a life without alcohol, the better and less pain you will go through. It took me many relapses before I accepted that I cannot drink safely. I would be sober for a month or two and think I have it nailed. I still might not have it nailed, I am not out of the woods either myself. I have one drink and I then want many drinks, and then all the consequences begin again.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pacific Coast
Posts: 785
Man, I've seen some twisted logic in my time, but the idea of a doctor actually advising someone with an alcohol addiction to continue drinking in order to ward off suicidal thoughts just blows my mind. Obviously this doc skipped "addiction day" during his training.
I had suicidal thoughts when I first stopped drinking, too, but the solution wasn't to resume drinking. The solution was to give my poor alcohol-addled brain some time to recover, and then to build a new life that didn't require alcohol in order to function socially.
I had suicidal thoughts when I first stopped drinking, too, but the solution wasn't to resume drinking. The solution was to give my poor alcohol-addled brain some time to recover, and then to build a new life that didn't require alcohol in order to function socially.
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Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 278
Originally Posted by nez 
I feel the same way about Walmart but I would be doing myself a great disservice if I let my prejudices and judgements interfere with reaping the benefits of going there.
Member
Join Date: May 2022
Location: California
Posts: 354
I too was told not to stop drinking before entering rehab earlier this year. My BIL has been an ER physician for decades and I trust his opinion. He told me that it's safest to be under medical care when trying to detox. I didn't know at the time that people can have serious medical complications when abruptly quitting alcohol. I thought it would be more dangerous for people with drug addiction to suddenly stop.
Either way, I'm grateful that all of you are sharing on this and I wish you all well.
Either way, I'm grateful that all of you are sharing on this and I wish you all well.
Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Where I’ve longed to be all my life…..here, now.
Posts: 7,339
Hi
Alcohol is BIG business.
So is rehab.
Remember that……..😬
No, your dr is NOT familiar with addiction. Not even nicotine addiction. It’s way easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.
A doctor of ANYTHING can be practicing for 40 years and have multiple initials after their name and miss the mark. They are human.
Best of luck in your moderation this time if that’s the route you choose. We do have choices.
I choose to be free.
Alcohol is BIG business.
So is rehab.
Remember that……..😬
No, your dr is NOT familiar with addiction. Not even nicotine addiction. It’s way easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.
A doctor of ANYTHING can be practicing for 40 years and have multiple initials after their name and miss the mark. They are human.
Best of luck in your moderation this time if that’s the route you choose. We do have choices.
I choose to be free.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Hi All.
Lots of fantastic response and advice given to me, all of which I sincerely appreciate.
A key point that is my Psych has no idea - that may well be the case, but he has seen me suicidal when inebriated and also when sober. It really isn't that simple to say he has "no idea" etc because I do genuinely believe he does, he is also very compassionate and wants to help me any way he can.
I may of course be wrong but mine is a very complicated issue and one in his own words were that I am a challenge to deal with as a patient, hence why we came up with a plan that may work for me as abstinence hasn't worked, detox hasn't worked, psych ward locked up hasn't worked.
So yes, I totally understand why people are very confused about the advice given to me but the plan is abstinence yes, but it's a long term plan not a short term one as we've tried that many times and i've failed it.
Again, all the posts have been taken on board and I know you all have fantastic ideas about this topic, otherwise you would not be on this forum.
However, I do not want to go to hospital again, sober or inebriated, I want to get better, and I guess I am putting trust in those who know much better about me as my file is quite extensive on hospital visits, suicide, drinking, depression, anxiety etc that is is much more complicated than just abstinence is the answer. I was abstinent for 3 months and it just reverted back to a relapse......which is shameful I know but apparently very common.
I thank everybody again, we are all different in our lives and I hope people realise I have been 100% honest with the general Drs and Psych Drs to get the plan that we have put in place.
This plan includes outpatient drug and alcohol visits, acute psych care team visits, all due to the amazing care that I am have been very fortunate to be given for free in Australia.
Is it the right approach? It appears most on here say definitely not - but I am just doing what I am have been told to as I want the pain to end and abstinence has not got me there so far. So we are using a different method as i'm a very complicated patient as previously mentioned. Being sober alone has not worked for me hence the relapse AGAIN - I just need the pain to end.
Suicide is scary I assure you, it's a living hell.
Thank you all again, I know everyone is coming from the right place to help and for that I sincerely appreciate it.
RB
Lots of fantastic response and advice given to me, all of which I sincerely appreciate.
A key point that is my Psych has no idea - that may well be the case, but he has seen me suicidal when inebriated and also when sober. It really isn't that simple to say he has "no idea" etc because I do genuinely believe he does, he is also very compassionate and wants to help me any way he can.
I may of course be wrong but mine is a very complicated issue and one in his own words were that I am a challenge to deal with as a patient, hence why we came up with a plan that may work for me as abstinence hasn't worked, detox hasn't worked, psych ward locked up hasn't worked.
So yes, I totally understand why people are very confused about the advice given to me but the plan is abstinence yes, but it's a long term plan not a short term one as we've tried that many times and i've failed it.
Again, all the posts have been taken on board and I know you all have fantastic ideas about this topic, otherwise you would not be on this forum.
However, I do not want to go to hospital again, sober or inebriated, I want to get better, and I guess I am putting trust in those who know much better about me as my file is quite extensive on hospital visits, suicide, drinking, depression, anxiety etc that is is much more complicated than just abstinence is the answer. I was abstinent for 3 months and it just reverted back to a relapse......which is shameful I know but apparently very common.
I thank everybody again, we are all different in our lives and I hope people realise I have been 100% honest with the general Drs and Psych Drs to get the plan that we have put in place.
This plan includes outpatient drug and alcohol visits, acute psych care team visits, all due to the amazing care that I am have been very fortunate to be given for free in Australia.
Is it the right approach? It appears most on here say definitely not - but I am just doing what I am have been told to as I want the pain to end and abstinence has not got me there so far. So we are using a different method as i'm a very complicated patient as previously mentioned. Being sober alone has not worked for me hence the relapse AGAIN - I just need the pain to end.
Suicide is scary I assure you, it's a living hell.
Thank you all again, I know everyone is coming from the right place to help and for that I sincerely appreciate it.
RB
Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northern Ireland, UK
Posts: 455
Originally Posted by RubyBruce
Hi All.
Long story short I have been an alcoholic for a few years but last year really hit hard so lots of hospital visits and 4 TIMES in Psych ward being suicidal.
Anyway, I then snapped my ankle in half literally and fractured my shoulder in many places requiring plates and 17 screws in Jan.
Sober as in a wheelchair for 3 months and thought I was fine, felt fantastic. So when I could walk again, thought i'd enjoy a few beers and all went well.
Somehow those three beers led to a bottle of gin a day and a hospital visit for suicide and i've completely stuffed it all up AGAIN!!!!!!!!
I work in Law so I like to think I am half decent mentally IQ wise, yet relapse was never on the radar as I thought I learned my lesson on the past as suicidal thoughts and severe withdrawals are a living hell. I already knew that.
Yet I did it AGAIN.
I am so confused and am now convinced alcoholism is indeed a disease as it when it gets hold of me I can't control it at all, in fact I feel under a spell - it is a really scary and frankly, embarrassing and shameful situation.
Anyway, thank you for listening, I wish everyone the best.
RB
Long story short I have been an alcoholic for a few years but last year really hit hard so lots of hospital visits and 4 TIMES in Psych ward being suicidal.
Anyway, I then snapped my ankle in half literally and fractured my shoulder in many places requiring plates and 17 screws in Jan.
Sober as in a wheelchair for 3 months and thought I was fine, felt fantastic. So when I could walk again, thought i'd enjoy a few beers and all went well.
Somehow those three beers led to a bottle of gin a day and a hospital visit for suicide and i've completely stuffed it all up AGAIN!!!!!!!!
I work in Law so I like to think I am half decent mentally IQ wise, yet relapse was never on the radar as I thought I learned my lesson on the past as suicidal thoughts and severe withdrawals are a living hell. I already knew that.
Yet I did it AGAIN.
I am so confused and am now convinced alcoholism is indeed a disease as it when it gets hold of me I can't control it at all, in fact I feel under a spell - it is a really scary and frankly, embarrassing and shameful situation.
Anyway, thank you for listening, I wish everyone the best.
RB
In my experience there's only so many chances to stop. With the consequences you've already endured trying to moderate is insanity plain and simple no matter what any Doctor says. This illness told me so many lies over the years and I kept listening even as the consequences grew and grew. Each time it whispered 'you'll manage better next time, you just need to ...... ' As I kept listening and kept trying to control it I ended with still less control and mounting hospital visits. This illness is progressive in my experience, whatever has happened can only get worse never better. The only solution is entire abstinence and the life changes to support that. Life without alcohol is 1000 times better and that's from someone who couldn't imagine life or social situations without it. I wish you all the best. This site is a huge recovery resource and i'm glad you found it.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,025
Hi Ruddy,
I’ll be pragmatic here.
if you are right, and your Psych is right, and the only way for you not to be suicidal is with some sort of controlled moderated drinking, then you don’t have much of a choice.
In my opinion, like many others, this moderation is not possible for alcoholics. So alcohol will win, and it won’t end up well sooner or later.
This makes it a choice between a rock and a hard place, so are you 100% sure these are the only 2 options?
I’m not questioning the credentials of your Psychiatrist, but could you get opinions from different mental health professionals? There are a lot of choices out there, and a lot of stories of people recovering from both suicidal tendencies and alcoholism in many different ways.
Maybe worth a try?
Whatever you decide to chose I’m wishing you all the best.
I’ll be pragmatic here.
if you are right, and your Psych is right, and the only way for you not to be suicidal is with some sort of controlled moderated drinking, then you don’t have much of a choice.
In my opinion, like many others, this moderation is not possible for alcoholics. So alcohol will win, and it won’t end up well sooner or later.
This makes it a choice between a rock and a hard place, so are you 100% sure these are the only 2 options?
I’m not questioning the credentials of your Psychiatrist, but could you get opinions from different mental health professionals? There are a lot of choices out there, and a lot of stories of people recovering from both suicidal tendencies and alcoholism in many different ways.
Maybe worth a try?
Whatever you decide to chose I’m wishing you all the best.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 524
Originally Posted by RubyBruce
Hi All.
Lots of fantastic response and advice given to me, all of which I sincerely appreciate.
A key point that is my Psych has no idea - that may well be the case, but he has seen me suicidal when inebriated and also when sober. It really isn't that simple to say he has "no idea" etc because I do genuinely believe he does, he is also very compassionate and wants to help me any way he can.
I may of course be wrong but mine is a very complicated issue and one in his own words were that I am a challenge to deal with as a patient, hence why we came up with a plan that may work for me as abstinence hasn't worked, detox hasn't worked, psych ward locked up hasn't worked.
So yes, I totally understand why people are very confused about the advice given to me but the plan is abstinence yes, but it's a long term plan not a short term one as we've tried that many times and i've failed it.
Again, all the posts have been taken on board and I know you all have fantastic ideas about this topic, otherwise you would not be on this forum.
However, I do not want to go to hospital again, sober or inebriated, I want to get better, and I guess I am putting trust in those who know much better about me as my file is quite extensive on hospital visits, suicide, drinking, depression, anxiety etc that is is much more complicated than just abstinence is the answer. I was abstinent for 3 months and it just reverted back to a relapse......which is shameful I know but apparently very common.
I thank everybody again, we are all different in our lives and I hope people realise I have been 100% honest with the general Drs and Psych Drs to get the plan that we have put in place.
This plan includes outpatient drug and alcohol visits, acute psych care team visits, all due to the amazing care that I am have been very fortunate to be given for free in Australia.
Is it the right approach? It appears most on here say definitely not - but I am just doing what I am have been told to as I want the pain to end and abstinence has not got me there so far. So we are using a different method as i'm a very complicated patient as previously mentioned. Being sober alone has not worked for me hence the relapse AGAIN - I just need the pain to end.
Suicide is scary I assure you, it's a living hell.
Thank you all again, I know everyone is coming from the right place to help and for that I sincerely appreciate it.
RB
Lots of fantastic response and advice given to me, all of which I sincerely appreciate.
A key point that is my Psych has no idea - that may well be the case, but he has seen me suicidal when inebriated and also when sober. It really isn't that simple to say he has "no idea" etc because I do genuinely believe he does, he is also very compassionate and wants to help me any way he can.
I may of course be wrong but mine is a very complicated issue and one in his own words were that I am a challenge to deal with as a patient, hence why we came up with a plan that may work for me as abstinence hasn't worked, detox hasn't worked, psych ward locked up hasn't worked.
So yes, I totally understand why people are very confused about the advice given to me but the plan is abstinence yes, but it's a long term plan not a short term one as we've tried that many times and i've failed it.
Again, all the posts have been taken on board and I know you all have fantastic ideas about this topic, otherwise you would not be on this forum.
However, I do not want to go to hospital again, sober or inebriated, I want to get better, and I guess I am putting trust in those who know much better about me as my file is quite extensive on hospital visits, suicide, drinking, depression, anxiety etc that is is much more complicated than just abstinence is the answer. I was abstinent for 3 months and it just reverted back to a relapse......which is shameful I know but apparently very common.
I thank everybody again, we are all different in our lives and I hope people realise I have been 100% honest with the general Drs and Psych Drs to get the plan that we have put in place.
This plan includes outpatient drug and alcohol visits, acute psych care team visits, all due to the amazing care that I am have been very fortunate to be given for free in Australia.
Is it the right approach? It appears most on here say definitely not - but I am just doing what I am have been told to as I want the pain to end and abstinence has not got me there so far. So we are using a different method as i'm a very complicated patient as previously mentioned. Being sober alone has not worked for me hence the relapse AGAIN - I just need the pain to end.
Suicide is scary I assure you, it's a living hell.
Thank you all again, I know everyone is coming from the right place to help and for that I sincerely appreciate it.
RB
It's like going to the Doctor and saying my arm hurts, but at the same time you are punching yourself in the arm, the Dr will ask you to first stop punching yourself in the arm, and then let's see what the pain is like.
I would get a second opinion. For an alcoholic, continuing to drink is never going to lead to a successful happy outcome.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by MrPL
Hi Ruddy,
I’ll be pragmatic here.
if you are right, and your Psych is right, and the only way for you not to be suicidal is with some sort of controlled moderated drinking, then you don’t have much of a choice.
In my opinion, like many others, this moderation is not possible for alcoholics. So alcohol will win, and it won’t end up well sooner or later.
This makes it a choice between a rock and a hard place, so are you 100% sure these are the only 2 options?
I’m not questioning the credentials of your Psychiatrist, but could you get opinions from different mental health professionals? (Drug and Alcohol services have come up with this plan with the Psych team, it is not just him alone - there was a team of a about ten people who have come up with this hence it isn't fair just to blame my Psych like he has no idea (not you, generally the opinion which is fair enough) There are a lot of choices out there, and a lot of stories of people recovering from both suicidal tendencies and alcoholism in many different ways.
Maybe worth a try? (I'm trying everything possible I assure you, but thank you mate)
Whatever you decide to chose I’m wishing you all the best.
I’ll be pragmatic here.
if you are right, and your Psych is right, and the only way for you not to be suicidal is with some sort of controlled moderated drinking, then you don’t have much of a choice.
In my opinion, like many others, this moderation is not possible for alcoholics. So alcohol will win, and it won’t end up well sooner or later.
This makes it a choice between a rock and a hard place, so are you 100% sure these are the only 2 options?
I’m not questioning the credentials of your Psychiatrist, but could you get opinions from different mental health professionals? (Drug and Alcohol services have come up with this plan with the Psych team, it is not just him alone - there was a team of a about ten people who have come up with this hence it isn't fair just to blame my Psych like he has no idea (not you, generally the opinion which is fair enough) There are a lot of choices out there, and a lot of stories of people recovering from both suicidal tendencies and alcoholism in many different ways.
Maybe worth a try? (I'm trying everything possible I assure you, but thank you mate)
Whatever you decide to chose I’m wishing you all the best.
Is it right? I have no idea!` but i'm willing to trust those who know and they have spent a lot of time on me (like, a real lot) over the last year so I guess they are very sympathetic to me as i'm a very polite and non-aggressive person, however I have serious issues that need to be addressed quite obviously as suicide is what they are more worried about than my alcoholism at the moment, abstinence is definitely the agreed longer term plan.
Thank you again.
RB
Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northern Ireland, UK
Posts: 455
Originally Posted by fishkiller
I hope you get it figured out one way or the other.
Everyone deserves to be happy
Everyone deserves to be happy
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2022
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by someday147
I agree. May I ask Bruce where you struggling with suicidal thoughts before you ever drank? In my experience the alcohol provided what I thought was the solution to an emotional problem. It seemed to work, until it didn't. All it did was provide temporary escape and after some time it didn't even do that. The obsession that I could somehow someway recapture those early days was what brought me to the gates of alcoholic destruction. With alcohol out of the way I was able to address the underlying condition and find a solution that didn't involve hospitals, a life of shame, fear and self loathing. I hope you can find that too.
Yes when I lost my daughter as I found out my Ex wife was cheating on me and stole my daughter that is all when it went downhill, drinking and suicidal. Until that stage life was "perfect" (nothing is perfect but I am sure you know what I mean in terms of normal, happy etc)
You are spot on, I do use it as a temporary escape as the other option isn't great let's be honest, as I am suicidal and that's why the plan is in place to get the best out of both situations to one, achieve abstinence calmly, and two, stop being suicidal, calmly.
I totally understand and agree with you, that to me is what I want to achieve. Unfortunately Alcohol Services and Psych don't think it's as easy as you make it sound but who knows, I'm just doing what I am instructed to do I guess.
Thank you again and I wish you well.
RB
Member
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 527
I have come to conclude that there is a type of alcoholic who can only stay sober by committing to the recovery program of Alcoholics Anonymous. It's a simple proposition, but one that many in that class will defiantly resist "into the gates of insanity or death." (BB, p. 30.) Feel free to PM me if you want to chat more about that.
PS -- Here's the full quote:
Most of us have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.
PPS -- One more Big Book quote (pp. 24-25) that may be relevant:
At a certain point in the drinking of every alcoholic, he passes into a state where the most powerful desire to stop drinking is of absolutely no avail. This tragic situation has already arrived in practically every case long before it is suspected. The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink....
There is a solution. Almost none of us liked the self-searching, the leveling of our pride, the confession of shortcomings which the process requires for its successful consummation. But we saw that it really worked in others, and we had come to believe in the hopelessness and futility of life as we had been living it. When, therefore, we were approached by those in whom the problem had been solved, there was nothing left for us but to pick up the simple kit of spiritual tools laid at our feet.
PS -- Here's the full quote:
Most of us have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.
PPS -- One more Big Book quote (pp. 24-25) that may be relevant:
At a certain point in the drinking of every alcoholic, he passes into a state where the most powerful desire to stop drinking is of absolutely no avail. This tragic situation has already arrived in practically every case long before it is suspected. The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink....
There is a solution. Almost none of us liked the self-searching, the leveling of our pride, the confession of shortcomings which the process requires for its successful consummation. But we saw that it really worked in others, and we had come to believe in the hopelessness and futility of life as we had been living it. When, therefore, we were approached by those in whom the problem had been solved, there was nothing left for us but to pick up the simple kit of spiritual tools laid at our feet.
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Originally Posted by Primativo
Obviously I am not a doctor, but from my experiences in England, doctors cannot and will not treat mental illness whilst someone is actively drinking because at the very fundamental level, alcohol influences and changes the way your mind works, it masks things. So a Dr cannot get to the core of the issue, whilst the brain is warped by alcohol. It's why you can't get a referral to see a Psyc Dr in the UK on the NHS if you are an active drinker, because it's a waste of their time. Imagine you turn up to see the Doctor, and he says 'whats wrong?', you say I feel suicidal, he asks 'are you under the influence of alcohol', 'yes', his reply will be you need to stop drinking, and then come back and tell me how you feel. Not to mention any treatment / medication they prescribe will likely not work alongside alcohol, or be dangerous.
It's like going to the Doctor and saying my arm hurts, but at the same time you are punching yourself in the arm, the Dr will ask you to first stop punching yourself in the arm, and then let's see what the pain is like.
I would get a second opinion. For an alcoholic, continuing to drink is never going to lead to a successful happy outcome.
It's like going to the Doctor and saying my arm hurts, but at the same time you are punching yourself in the arm, the Dr will ask you to first stop punching yourself in the arm, and then let's see what the pain is like.
I would get a second opinion. For an alcoholic, continuing to drink is never going to lead to a successful happy outcome.
I in fact that is pretty shameful that UK do that, as if a person needs help then why persecute them unnecessarily when the withdrawals are so harsh there is no way they can become sober on their own? I know I couldn't, way too dangerous hence hospital are there for you. Amazing UK don't do that.
All my discussions were when sober but it was all under supervision, so the thought you can't get help until sober on your own is extremely wrong and lacking in empathy imo.
Seems a bizarre system to me to be honest.
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