Hodd

When I say I’m not overweight, I don’t look it, but my BMI is 27, and ideally it should be 25. I do try and do a couple of sports, and losing 5 to 10lbs would benefit these.

Losing a few pounds pales into insignificance compared with giving up alcohol, but I think we should all build on our sober successes. It’s healthier to lose a few pounds, and I know from experience I can do so by eating carefully. It’s not healthy to eat 8 chocolate bars - that is a health risk -
- and it’s something I should address.

BackandScared

I did not manage to explain myself Hodd. I am doubting that eating 8 chocolate bars in one go is somehting to avoid. I am trying to reflect on why we do these things.What is it that we try to fill. It cannot be hunger (the same way we do not drink 8 beers due to thirst). One of my worst traits is constant projection, so I am probably projecting here too. I think I have a real issue with never getting to a place of contentment and that I try to cover up with 'excessive' behaviour in different areas of my life, but as i said too, this was just a bit of random thought sharing.

Hodd

^ Nothing wrong with reflecting like that, Back. No one’s perfect, and we should all aim to improve ourselves.

Your point about contentment, or wanting more of, is interesting. I went to a meditation weekend recently (I still can’t meditate, but I’d like to be able to) and a lot of the themes were about Buddhism. I don’t have a religion nor do I believe in reincarnation so I’d never make a Buddhist. But the whole point of their belief is that we aim for contentment in this and “future lives”. It’s not ideal if you don’t feel content. Is there anything you could do to address that within yourself?

Back to these chocolates I mentioned that binge was 1000 calories. A normal male shouldn’t exceed 2000 to 2500 a day, so to waste 1000 on empty calories like chocolate is very unhealthy indeed. If I do that sort of thing once a week, which I probably do with bread, etc., I will without a doubt gain weight over time. It’s not a massive concern - if we want an example of empty calories, the number one culprit is alcohol - but it should be address. Things like chocolate or cakes should be an occasional, e.g. once a fortnight, treat.

advbike

Ha ha ha Mizz.. yup I drank half of those..

advbike

I have the same thing, BackandScared, an emotional void that I have been trying to fill my entire adult life with booze, food, cars, motorcycles, homes, relationships, geographic moves, adventure travel and more.. I am never really content. Even when I was sober for over three years it did nothing to dent that void and my ego was in complete control, which finally led to my relapse in 2017. I did have a pretty traumatic childhood with a lot of emotional pain, and feel this is really a spiritual problem in it's essence, certainly not just an alcohol problem. Of course quitting alcohol or any other addictive substance allows us to start making the spiritual changes necessary to calm that discontent.

I highly recommend In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, by Dr. Gabor Mate which discusses this emotional void in the context of addiction, and early childhood trauma or abuse.

Hodd, like you I'm pretty fit, but 10-15 lbs over ideal weight, and BMI 27.. every time I make gains and drop a few pounds I overindulge on a huge meal out or some good bread from the local (award winning) bread bakery... or buying a six pack of those dang San Pellegrinos..

Hodd

^ Bread’s not far behind alcohol in the list of bad calories. It’s just too convenient and fills us up. All those carbs turn to glucose.

I’m going to sound like some sort of annoying Buddhist convert here (I’m not even remotely Buddhist), but they talk about internal and external happiness. The external stuff you mentioned such as cars and travel are only temporary, and we should aim for internal happiness. Now they don’t actually tell you how to do this, and I doubt many people score 100% on this. I think the idea is we’re supposed to be happy with our lot. In your case, adv, quitting booze was a massive step. It is a spiritual thing, you’re right, but it’s hard to make progress along that path. I’ll say the wrong thing here, but I have friends who have converted to Christianity of some sort, and they bang on about it and acquire a load of new friends. I’m never really convinced it’s genuine. But we shouldn’t give up on this spiritual part. The word spiritual traditionally links to religion, but that’s no longer the case. To explore our minds and aim for inner peace is also a form of spiritualism.

The “hungry ghosts” is interesting. There’s a festival by that name in a part of Asia I lived in. There are music festivals, etc., with very few people present. The intended audience is of course the hungry ghosts themselves. People get quite scared talking about it.

advbike

Yeah, def was thinking of spirituality more in a Zen, or Buddhist sense, not structured religion per se. Finding more inner peace and contentment, as you say, instead of always seeking more and being driven by our compulsions. This inner happiness is very cliche in some circles, especially among those rejecting western materialism and values but also important for those of us with that emotional void that Mate describes in his book. Because we are always searching for something. He is Hungarian and experienced severe trauma as a child at the end of WW II, and his own personal addiction was classical music, believe it or not. The process of feeding his compulsion (buying thousands of dollars of CD's on a weekly basis) negatively impacted his life at one point.

Zura

Loving the dialogue on this thread.

​​​​​​Compulsion, yeah that old chestnut 🤦 I'm very interested in nutritional health as well. Listen to different science/doctors/studies and the different viewpoints on the subject. This stuff is important, it's our fuel! We should treat ourselves like prize winning luxury vehicles and fill ourselves up with the best. Easier said then done, we are time poor society and with the addictive qualities of certain foods it can be difficult. They've scientifically formulated some of these foods to be as addictive as possible apparently.

Haha Mizz you made me lol at buying the whole planets supply 😂
​​​​​​
I get what you mean re Buddhism Hodd. It piqued my interest and I've attended a retreat, attended meditation and loved the chanting part, found it very soothing and beautiful. I even started learning Tibetan just for fun but didn't stick to it. There's lots to benefit from, but there are certainly parts that might not resonate with everyone.

Backandscared and Advbike there's definitely also an emotional/spiritual element for many of us who gave these issues. You might like Tara Brach's talks Backandscared if your not already familiar with her. She talks about "NOT enoughnous" and alot of other good stuff, I think she might be a Buddhist psychologist actually but it's not in your face. I really enjoy Gabor Mate too advbike. He's also talked about how his work addiction affected his relationship with his children when they were younger.

Anyway sorry for the long ramble, Goodluck with the chocolate reduction Hodd.

Kaily

I have a bingeing problem which has escalated since giving up alcohol (3.5yrs). Sometimes I can get a grip on it for a few months but I always end up relapsing. I plan my binges, I need them, look forward to them all day. Just like alcohol.

At the moment I am managing to mostly keep it to the evenings but in time it will probably get worse. It is my comfort from bad feelings. Yes I have PTSD and a lot of trauma in my childhood and adult life.

Last week I had a decorator in my house and I found myself bringing in large amounts of chocolate etc and hiding it. I felt embarrassed and ashamed. Living alone I never normally have that worry.

I feel addiction is thriving in me despite being sober. It has just crossed over to a different substance and is still ruining my life. I get an excited high before I eat it and a guilty low afterwards swearing never to do it again. It is a bug in my brain.

Hodd

^ Aww, that doesn’t sound like much fun, Kaily.

It’s interesting. When we first quit alcohol, we often try things like ice cream, chocolate or energy drinks. Hopefully these serve their purpose and get us through the early weeks, but whilst they’re less harmful and addictive as alcohol, it seems they’re not without problems. I think we shouldn’t ignore this as there are no benefits to eating chocolate or cakes. These do in the long term contribute to diabetes and heart problems. It also links to that idea in Buddhism (sorry, I’ve said that word again) about inner happiness being the key. The external happiness from chocolate or whatever is only temporary, and let’s be honest we feel cr*p afterwards.

I’m not going to make light of this. I’m going to look into CBT or a technique to overcome/reduce this problem. If/when I make progress, I’ll report back.

Kaily, you’re much better off now you’ve quit alcohol, but let’s see if we can sort this bingeing out now.

advbike

Excellent posts all. Thanks for starting the thread, Hodd.

Hodd

Thanks Adv, I’m on a bit of a portion control/mostly vegetarian diet nowadays (hence my chocolate crimes on Friday annoyed me so much). I don’t miss meat at all (I eat some fish), but what I do miss is bread! Just had a veggie curry and it was crying out for a naan. The trouble is I’d buy a packet of 2 and eat both That’s greedy and too many carbs. Be careful of those sugary drinks. The UK recommendation is a maximum of 30 grams of free* sugar a day. I just checked, and one can of pellegrino is already half that limit.

* the guidance is clear as mud about the sugar/glucose generated by carbs in bread or the sugar in fruit. I like dates, for example, but I’m sure I’m ingested masses of sugar.

Thanks to you too for the great insight.

advbike

Thanks Hodd, yes one Pellegrino a day max, mostly for when I am having thoughts of a beer. Like right now I have injured my plantar tendon so can't hike or bike.. aaargh.. I just threw out last of the sourdough batard I was devouring the past couple days though - no value at all since it wasn't even multigrain.. I think I'm gonna cut out wheat for awhile. I get plenty of oats and rice. I hear you on the naan - love that stuff, especially garlic naan

BackandScared

I also want to thank you for starting the conversation and for all the interesting input. i have ordered Realm of Hungry Ghosts, by Dr. Gabor Mate and i will lookin into the Ted's talk by Tara Brach. Thank you advbike and Zura for the recommendations.

Hodd

Hope the plantar tendon clears up. A rare downside I had of quitting alcohol and getting a life was the amount of niggling injuries I picked up from the increased activity. Our cardiovascular fitness improves super fast, but the rest of the body takes a lot longer to catch up. I now know my limits and know how/how not to train. Any new niggles, I see a physio asap. That’s why I like my (slow) triathlons. If/when my Achilles plays up, I can swim. When my shoulders get too sore, my Achilles will be better so I can run. Never an excuse not to exercise

It’d be interesting to do a sugar diary with half your recommended intake being used up by one can of pellegrino. As for naan, there’s a similar bread in Asia often eaten for breakfast. The ball of dough is soaked in oil overnight to make it stretchy. Tastes great but that’s a heart attack on a plate. Naans in moderation.

advbike

Kaily, I’m sorry to hear of the sugar compulsion. I do understand it, I struggle with it too, that’s one reason I exercise so much. But I suspect many of these compulsive behaviors are the result of a need to calm some inner disturbances (anxiety in my case) and need to be addressed in the context of other addictions.. I wonder if you could get some counseling as to the cause. And even though the best approach is to find that inner peace, maybe you can develop some healthy replacement behaviors, the one I rely on is aerobic workouts of which there are many.

Kaily

Thanks Hodd, advbike. I am an ongoing project, sort one thing out and another raises its head . Today I have come home without chocolate and actually feel uneasy and panicky - ridiculous!

But very real.

Keep up the good work both of you.

Hodd

Yet another double post 🤣

Hodd

Wow, it’s something we can relate to, Kaily, and not ridiculous. Does this craving fade if you eat normal healthy food first? It is a problem, and you’re to want to be free of it. You’ve done brilliant to quit booze. Can this be your next project?

Zura

I'm so time poor ATM but just wanted to add to you Backandscared that I just remembered I found that talk on her website many years ago......she's got alot of talks but I couldn't find the not enough one. It's hard to know what will resonate with who but you know what you like 😂

Wish I had more time to spend on here with you all. Hope everyone is doing well with their stuffs ❤️