Vincent484

Hi everyone,

Does anyone else struggle with how irrational this disease is? That's been a big hurdle for me. I can't wrap my head around the fact that I can't just have "a few" and stop because it makes no sense. I've had discussions with non-alcoholics about it and I just end up saying "If you don't have it I can't explain it to you. I know it doesn't make sense but that's what happens".

I can moderate and have on or two with other things like pizza, cookies, ice cream ect. but just can't with booze. It's frustrating.

Edit: Also, if anyone has some tips to get me to wrap my head around it actually being rational I'm all ears. I think that would help me in the long run.

Mizz

There have been only a few times where I was able to moderate and have one or two alcoholic drinks. I drink the entire bottle and more when in active alcoholism. This is what AA calls the "phenomenon of craving" .......

Anyways, its ONE of the many reasons I had to walk away from it. I am okay without having to logically understand this given that I have spent countless hours trying to understand. I really got nowhere. Willing moderation into my reality doesn't work just like to trying to understand proved to not work.

Not saying you should move on from trying to understand. I just need to accept and do what I can to stay sober.

Kdon853

Read the AA big book chapter, more about alcoholism. You’ll see yourself there . An eye opener

Velvetee

There is moderation and moderation I noticed I am an addicted person in many other realms. I don't search for the explanation anymore, I think it's embedded deep down in my brain. Let's have a glass of water and just accept we are like this

nez

I need to breath. If I try to moderate my breathing to once every 5 minutes...things go sideways real fast. That makes sense and is logical.

I need to sleep. If I try to moderate my sleeping to once every 5 days...things go sideways real fast. That makes sense and is logical.

I don't need to drink. That makes sense and is logical.

The small "I want" child inside me doesn't do logic. Trying to get him to understand is illogical and going no where fast.. I need the grownup inside me to parent the small "I want" child. That makes sense and is logical.

I don't need to drink.

Zencat

Try reading about brain science and addiction. I understand addiction 'hijacks' the brain deep in the emotional centers. Causing a host of thought processes to go haywire. Even after the last drink there may be some brain damage to deal with. That also throws a wrench in the brain works.

For me recovery means positive action first then deal with the thinker latter after continue sobriety. CBT & DBT helps me to change my behavior for the better. There is a lot of info about addiction. I suggest find your truth about addiction and work with that.

SparkleKitty

My issue is codependence, but I think it's as irrational as any other breed of addiction.

For me, I learned that I did not have to understand something before I could accept it. And that meant accepting that my best "rational" thinking was fundamentally flawed.

PinnacleOR

There is another perspective besides “frustrating “ - that sobriety is a gift. No matter how it’s packaged or how ingrained it is in our society, alcohol is a poison to the body. Whether it’s one drink or 10, the body wants to get rid of it. Many people who can moderate may never get the chance to question why they drink. I got that chance and got to grow mentally, psychologically and spiritually because of it. I’m not frustrated I can’t drink, I’m thankful I realize I never have to drink again.

Read This Naked Mind. It’s got some good insights.

Obladi

Me! Pick me! I do!!!

Or actually, I get to say now that I no longer struggle with the irrationality of it; I accept it. Addiction can be explained rationally/scientifically; knowing that caused me some relief. But what was most helpful in this arena was to accept that my behavior and thought processes were completely disordered and irrational when I was in the throes of addiction. My irrational illness was born of the drinking which reinforced the illness which fostered continued drinking, ultimately bringing me to the point where I had no choice but to drink even when I knew I was drinking of my own will.

When you think about it, we're the lucky ones. Some disordered people have no idea they are thinking and behaving irrationally. At least we are of the variety that can recognize it in ourselves. Therein lies the hope of recovery.

Them's my thoughts, anyway.

O

travelbug

Great post! Thank you.

Anna

My addiction hurt my family and that's something the rational me would never do.

There can be an upside to addiction, sort of a gift. As Gary Zukav says in The Seat of the Soul "Your addiction shows you exactly what you must acknowledge, experience, and heal with your own choices, in order to create a life of meaning and joy instead of a life of continual and desperate need."

Aellyce

What Obladi said, in my view as well. I don't think it's irrational in an objective sense, as far as how it works in the brain and behavior, you can look up the neuroscience of addiction online, there is tons of info on the web. I am someone who often would like to highlight and be proud of my rationality in many ways, but a lot of it is illusion and defensiveness as well. I think it's more the experience of it that will never follow the subjective "reasons" and agenda we would love to force on it. There are also many other very irrational things in human nature and in life. Hard to accept but it gets easier once we do, IMO. We can understand a lot about addiction but that, by itself, will never negate its power when it comes to the first-hand experience and the grip it can have on us.

tornrealization

This book is a good read to help with the rational side. Also education on what alcohol does to the brain and addiction of the brain. Once you realize an accept that's your physical brain is past the point of no return with neural pathways you will have science to explain why one drink is never ends with just one drink. I akin it to riding a bike. Even after years of being sober, when you drink- lighting up the brain in ways it remembers and you are square back to where you left off. So the only logical solution is not to have a drink. I don't drink.

awuh1

Ok, here is my imperfect understanding of why we are (at least sometimes if not always) unable to stop drinking once we start.

On a biological level our bodies process alcohol (somewhat differently) into acetaldehyde, which is a highly toxic substance and a known carcinogen. Acetaldehyde, even in small doses, makes us feel slightly sick. Alcoholics know that drinking more alcohol will make them feel better (be that via "hair of the dog" in the morning or after a very small amount of acetaldehyde has been generated 10 minutes after the first drink). The problem is that the more you drink the more acetaldehyde is produced and we begin to circle the drain.

Alcohol, by its very nature reduces inhibition. This makes it difficult to avoid having that next drink, even if you know exactly what is going on biologically. And so the spiral goes.

Throw in a few more idiosyncratic psychological and biological (not to mention spiritual) variables and there you have it.

The trouble is that this knowledge alone is not enough to help a person to stop in a vast majority of cases. I hope it helps though.

PuckLuck

Pizza doesn't alter your reality, alcohol does. That's all I ever chased was that feeling.

fini

yes, i struggled bigtime with that. couldn’t understand it, kept trying to make it all make sense by proving i could entirely control it, or at least myself with it.
i called it “the choice-thing”. how could it be that i couldn’t use the power/choice/control/agency i had in other matters?
in the end, just like O, i accepted. it was obvious. it just was. just was that way.
and it turned out that i didn’t need it to be rational in order to quit.
it turned out that i had and have control over what i chose and choose to do about it.

GerandTwine

Before I would call this a disease, I would call it LamaDapa Ding Dong. Loving A Mind Altering Drug’s Associated Pleasure Again. Drink (Ding Dong).

https://youtu.be/9rfnwsb-dg0 (Shama lama Ding Dong)

Upon drinking, the Altered Mind (the drunken me) took over my brain, the plan to stop at 2 along with the Authentic Me completely vanished from the universe, and it was off to the races. So, I think this does make sense. Having an altered mindset from drinking is not a disease. In fact loving that pleasure so much is, to me, a sign of health which I simply chose to gamble with by indulging it when I thought I could manage the bad side effects.

Drinking again and again became a personal failure to do the right thing, not a powerlessness. I should have quit drinking when the negative side effects first started showing up years before I finally did quit forever. I knew I had been doing wrong over and over.

Just like the Shama Lama Ding Dong lyrics is rational, so is the LamaDapa Ding Dong drinking/drugging rational. The only motivational difference being the first one is critical for life (propagating the species) and the second is not. The negative consequential differences between the two are obvious.

The deep pleasure seeking part of my brain does not understand time. It only understands the degree of hunger and exactly how to solicit me to try to get what it wants. It knows my many various beliefs and preferences and sees, feels, smells, hears, tastes everything right along with me. But IT cannot move any of my voluntary muscles.

And if I do not make this pledge “I will never drink again, and I will never change my mind.” IT will know that I have chosen to refuse that plan meaning I have intentionally left the opportunity to drink again alive and well for some time. And not understanding time, IT will accept a plan to drink at the ripe old age of 85 with the same fervor as a plan to drink tomorrow. All IT has to do is convince me that it makes no sense to wait, because how could something that feels that good ever be always wrong for me. That’s why addicts don’t take the pledge, right? Chip, chip, chip away.

Therefore, as I see it, the only way to fully recover and get on with life is to make that once in a lifetime commitment: “I will never drink/drug again.” Outside my involvement on SR, the last time I spent any time at all regarding my past addiction was years ago when a hydrocodone prescription ran out. That was just a few interesting minutes.

SnazzyDresser

I can totally identify with this feeling, the frustration of it. The way I came to terms with it was by spending some time with another idea, that my brain and body had been permanently changed by my alcohol career years. The fact that I can't drink now I view as one of the countless mysteries about science and the human body/mind that I can work with if I accept the practical reality of it. Like I can drive my car around without knowing how the engine works.

EndGameNYC

Not everything makes sense. Especially when it comes to human behavior and human motivations. That's why we have wars.

We human beings have a very powerful irrational side to us. It allows for things like imagination, creativity, daydreaming, individuality, and problem-solving across all human endeavors. If I'm making too much sense for a couple of days or more I need to reflect on where I've gone wrong in my life.

The idea that we should be able to figure this thing out, trace all the threads back to an earlier time, or have it in some way "make sense" is a good way to drive yourself crazy. I guarantee it. The practice can also take your eye off the prize. Attention must be paid.

From personal and professional experience, I've learned that few people, if any, experience an improvement in their lives by deciding on what "really" caused them to be addicted to alcohol. A lot of people would not be satisfied when they decided on the "root cause," perhaps believing that it couldn't be just one thing.

If understanding alcoholism is a condition of your sobriety, you know what happens next.

DriGuy

Alcoholism involves a lot of irrational behavior. Addictions do that. I didn't struggle with that once in recovery, but I already knew how easy it is to fall prey to irrational thoughts. Irrational thinking is the evolutionary baggage that comes with our species' more advanced brains. It's actually part of our default state. We gravitate to irrationality, because we fall for tempting logical fallacies. I think you're in a good place right now coming to grips with your irrational addiction. By recognizing that you can't have a few, you can now apply knowledge that doesn't come up your irrational subconscious. All the experts and all the books, except from a few rare charlatans, tells you you can't drink, not even "just a few." Listen to this outside knowledge rather than the gobbledygook that come from inside your less informed alcoholic voice.

Best of luck. It's an adventure.