Dascha

I've only got 4 days sober, but I've lurked on here for a couple of years or so. I've seen people have good lengths of sobriety, people relapse, people who are quite active posters and some who aren't...

I don't really see the point of getting uptight if someone refuses to take advice and doesn't live up to expectations. We have no right to expect anything.

Just ignore it...problem solved

fini

i hear you, manta, on sharing an opinion vs being frustrated.

i do occasionally get frustrated, though, and then have to look at myself. again! in these scenarios, i need to get clear that i actually have expectations of others, and that i “want the reward” of having been of use. sometimes it’s hard to know i am not of use when i have put thought and energy in.
in general, i also see support and encouragement as not being exactly equivalent. they’re close, but not the same.
ultimately, i can only make a decision where to put my kind of support. and that decision is based on what i think i have to offer, and in “repeat” situations there is my experience of any feedback or lack thereof from the person i have repeatedly tried to offer something to. and when i find myselh repeatedly running headfirst into the same brick wall, which i have been known to do, then i have to question my own, uh, mental health

Obladi

Thank you Anna, Dee, least, Morning Glory, Optival. You do amazing work here and I appreciate your endless patience, even when (especially when) it's wearing thin.

I really can't make sense of the arguments that anyone here is enabling. Being kind is not enabling, expressing concern and compassion isn't enabling. Buying booze or paying rent or excusing drinking is. I've not seen or heard of anyone on this site doing any such thing.

I have, however, seen people be hateful and accusatory and judgemental. I try to chalk that up to "they mean well," but sometimes that's really a stretch.

We all understand why no one here should EVER dismiss or cast judgment on a person who expresses they are feeling like harming themselves. Why in the world should it be any different for a person who is caught in active addiction? That's a rhetorical question; the answer is, "It shouldn't."

NicLin

I just want to say thank you to everyone for this forum. I am not sure what posts were inflammatory so since I am not qualified to say who should be there nor what people should do or not do, all I can say is that I am grateful to SR, the MODS and everyone who posts here.

I log on every night and have never found anything other than love and support. And when I see a post that is over my head, I read and try to take what I can from them. If they begin to upset or trigger me, I leave it. That is the magic about technology these days, we can react or not react in a second...and we can make it go away with a click.

This forum saved my life and I did go back out and then came back and the love was the same. I don't think any of us are qualified to judge another's intentions, it would be a frustrating and fruitless way to live. I default to the professionals here who moderate the threads and trust that they have our best interest at heart.

We can only look at ourselves...thanks everyone for giving ME a wonderful, familial experience here on SR since even BEFORE my Day One.

Goodnight from Miami!

Delilah1

I appreciate this post Anna. I always try to offer support and suggestions in a positive and kind manner. I am getting close to four years sober, and I remember when I first joined SR the positive and supportive posts were what kept me going. I had a few relapses, and a few ridiculous attempts at moderation and at one point stopped reading madness posting due to what I felt were harsh or unproductive now comments. They weren’t even necessarily made to me, it was just reading them that made me reconsider being active on SR.

The nice thing about this forum is we can choose to offer support, or we can choose to not comment at all. I understand that it can be frustrating or ups eating when we see someone struggling, I know I cannot do the work for them, but I can continue to offer support and suggestions and hope they choose to follow through with them. Maybe it’s that day, or maybe it’s in a year.

I appreciate all who have been there for me over the years, and I am extremely appreciative of the administrators and moderators who volunteer their time to make this such a supportive community.

taplow

I was wondering, can I press the ignore button on myself?

ColoradoRocky

I think you'd just about have to


And I'll be right behind you.....

Dascha

Nice try taplow....lol

Stable

least

I like Thumper's mom's advice: If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Sometimes I can only express sadness if someone relapses. I will post hope that they can find sobriety and get out of the depressing cycle of drinking. I know how hard that can be.

Jtmlk

babycat

I do want to reiterate what Manta lady has said. It is absolutely OK for us not to always agree. Isn't that the very purpose of a forum in general? It does not mean we are fighting or being rude, just humans being humans with distinguishing opinions. There is beauty in that. At the same time, I do get why that is a bit of a slippery slope.

Red78

The 'serial relapser' may only have 1 place to go and that's here and maybe if they didn't have SR they wouldn't be relapsing because they may be drinking every single day because they have no one on the outside to help.
In active addiction one may have lost everything and be so lonely that they don't have anyone to turn too so they seem to be attention seeking as they continually posting their relapses but maybe SR is there only communication with people who understand.
Some people can't help themselves and need intervention, what happens when they have no one in real life to do that...
I don't agree with some of the attention seeking or apparent manipulation by some OPs that people talk about on the pages of this thread and I chose not to reply to the OPs on those threads, I have also seen some pretty blunt and rude responses to some people who are relapsing all the time and not heeding advice, if it annoys you then just leave them alone rather than being rude. There is a fine line between being rude and calling it how you see it.
Not everyone works the same way, some need blunt honesty and others can't cope with that.

Dee and Anna I think you are both awesome and do a great job of maintaining this site with your patience, compassion and understanding, this site wouldn't survive without it..

brighterday1234

Bethany57

This is a great site with great moderators. I do think this site maybe the only outlet for a lot of people. I think people respond to different approaches....you never know what is going to work. So if one approach doesn't work why not try another - just my .02

MantaLady

There is an elephant in the room here, some maybe don’t see it and are reading the comments about constant replasers assuming it means anyone or everyone that has found themselves in this devastating position, 99.9999% of relapsers are not what this thread is about. I would be sad for anyone who has relapsed to think that they are not welcome to post and people here don’t have compassion for them.

Frankly speaking, the post from Anna was in direct response to a number of replies by various members made to one specific member and it would be disingenuous to suggest that it wasn’t. However, we all have to pretend we’re not talking about what we’re actually talking about for fear of recrimination, censorship or exclusion.

Tougher comments from members are not the norm here, and in my 17 months on this site can say that there has only been maybe 3 people out of hundreds receiving advice or comments are less fluffy, more real and based on that specific members response and commitment to recovery over a sustained period of time. It is not common to do this but I feel Anna’s post insinuates that there maybe a wider and more regular problem on this site with this behaviour. I feel that is an injustice to the good people here as it really isn’t reflective of the regular and ongoing support that is freely given by many, including some of the tough talkers.

For an open and honest community to work this feels like a well-meaning but poorly executed way to tackle this situation, it promotes confusion, misinterpretation, misunderstanding, pack mentality, turns the community against each other and makes it seem like an unfriendly place.

One thing I have learned in sobriety is that the only way out is through. If you want to tackle an issue you have to be open, honest and talk about the actual issue, you have to go through it and not skirt around it. If you skirt around it the issue stays there, it doesn’t move or change it just sits there like the elephant in the room that you will eventually trip over again and again and again.

I really do hope that this post is not removed or censored as I have taken a lot of time putting this together to express my opinion in an honest, calm and measured way. It is not meant with malice, or anger, bitterness or judgement. I hope that this comes across as I have intended.

Peace Out!! xx

John65

I think that there is an element of nastiness across the boards, it can be sneaky and hard to miss but I have personally reported quite a large number of these type of posts since I joined in last year.

I have more to say on this but have to go out now, until later.

Obladi

I understand what you're saying Manta, I do. A couple of things to consider:

1. This is not an anarchist community. (I use that term in a non-inflammatory way; to me, an anarchy is one in which everyone takes care of themselves in the best way they see fit while also contributing to the larger community). We have mods and administrators to keep order. Like it or not, they apply rules and standards they'e established to promote optimal support. I didn't get the impression at all that Anna was posting to open a discussion or invite debate. Perhaps it would be good to have a place to debate rules, standards and approaches to best support other members. But (a) there isn't one and (b) it's not up to the rest of us to determine whether there will be one.

2. The vast majority of us only read what we see here. We have Absolutely No Way of knowing whether a person "really" wants to quit, whether their barriers are imagined or real, how mental illness or other factors may be playing into their situation.

3. Though it's not the norm, the mods and administrators let any number of (in my estimation) snarky and mean-spirited comments stand all around this board. I don't like that. You might think it's ok. It's a fine line. And until I hold one of those positions, I have the report feature to lodge my complaint and let the receiver proceed accordingly.

4. Electronic communication has the affect of allowing people to say things they would never say to a person in real life. Imagine yourself sitting in a support group with someone whom you're exasperated . Can you imagine yourself or others saying the hurtful, accusatory and inflammatory things we're talking about? I sure can't, and if I were to find myself in such a situation I'd be horrified, not to mention traumatized.

I've been here a long time. I've been drinking and sober during that time, mostly drinking. People have written things to me that were hurtful, and for most of that time the fear of what people might say prevented me from being 100% honest and sometimes kept me from posting here until I felt that I had an acceptable run of sobriety. I really wanted to get and stay sober, though my actions were telling a different story. The truth for me (as far as I can discern it at this point) is that I also wanted to continue drinking and was afraid of letting that comfort go. Never mind that it wasn't comforting, was killing me, etc. We all know that - that is the Very Definition of addiction.

This is all off the cuff because I've got to get to work. I appreciate that you spent a lot of time composing your thoughts so that they would be received in a balanced way. I hope you understand that I respect where you are coming from; I just wonder if it's possible to adequately implement what you may think should happen in a way that doesn't introduce harm for one or several or many people.

In the end, if a person confines their reports of continued destruction within their own thread, I think the solution is pretty simple. Don't read that thread.

lessgravity

To me this thread represents the vibrancy, diversity, support and committed interest of the people who populate this site. Thank you Anna and Dee, et al. What a wonderful place.
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Dascha

Mantalady...

Why are you making this more complicated than it needs to be?

Simply press the ignore button.