Cross Substance Use
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 136
Cross Substance Use
Something that I don't quite understand about the 12-Step group's guidelines regarding the use of other substances.
For example, I have known some weed smokers that might fall into the category of 'problem smokers' but rarely drink. My understanding of the NA model is that someone being 'sober' from their drug of misuse must avoid alcohol if they are to be considered 'sober'.
So too, in AA, there are alcoholics who have only occasionally smoked weed, dropped pills, or whatever else, but many consider that they should not refer to themselves as 'sober' if they use anything else, despite being free from alcohol consumption.
One of the recovery groups I attend (not officially AA) occasionally attracts Overeaters-Anonymous folks. I would say that in my sobriety I overeat a lot of chocolate, and also smoke at levels that causes me a lot of problems. By the definitions outlined in the above paragraphs, would that then mean that I should abstain entirely from chocolate, or cigarettes - no doubt a harmful drug of addiction.
I seem to recall someone who goes to NA mentioning that substances like codeine and benzo's are off limits also. There are clearly legitimate uses for these drugs, but should 'sober' people with any substance abuse history avoid these things?
It should be stated that I only hear these statements from people in the rooms, and have not came across references to cross-usage in actual AA approved literature, and I'm led to believe that Bill W was a chronic tobacco smoker, so I'm a bit confused as to why such notions are presented.
For example, I have known some weed smokers that might fall into the category of 'problem smokers' but rarely drink. My understanding of the NA model is that someone being 'sober' from their drug of misuse must avoid alcohol if they are to be considered 'sober'.
So too, in AA, there are alcoholics who have only occasionally smoked weed, dropped pills, or whatever else, but many consider that they should not refer to themselves as 'sober' if they use anything else, despite being free from alcohol consumption.
One of the recovery groups I attend (not officially AA) occasionally attracts Overeaters-Anonymous folks. I would say that in my sobriety I overeat a lot of chocolate, and also smoke at levels that causes me a lot of problems. By the definitions outlined in the above paragraphs, would that then mean that I should abstain entirely from chocolate, or cigarettes - no doubt a harmful drug of addiction.
I seem to recall someone who goes to NA mentioning that substances like codeine and benzo's are off limits also. There are clearly legitimate uses for these drugs, but should 'sober' people with any substance abuse history avoid these things?
It should be stated that I only hear these statements from people in the rooms, and have not came across references to cross-usage in actual AA approved literature, and I'm led to believe that Bill W was a chronic tobacco smoker, so I'm a bit confused as to why such notions are presented.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Gatineau, QC, CA
Posts: 5,100
I think a sober Life, is just being balanced in all areas.
Many will compensate one addiction cessation with picking up another addiction. At the end of the day, we all must look in the mirror and face ourselves.
So that being said, if you feel like your daily intake of chocolate is unhealthy, it's up to you to make the decision. Balance is key.
Many will compensate one addiction cessation with picking up another addiction. At the end of the day, we all must look in the mirror and face ourselves.
So that being said, if you feel like your daily intake of chocolate is unhealthy, it's up to you to make the decision. Balance is key.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 985
Having spent much of my life in the 12-step rooms, I have also been fascinated with what "addictive behaviors" are socially acceptable and which are rallied against. I believe it is dangerous to body and mental health to smoke tobacco heavily or to binge eat and then purge. However, these behaviors do not "cancel" your sober time, while the use of medicinal marijuana does (at least in many recovery communities). Coffee, cigarettes, sugar, sexual behaviors - all of these "acceptable" yet destructive addictions run rampant within the recovery community.
My personal belief is that AA's primary purpose is to specifically address alcoholism, and that beyond that each participant has to decide (as patman says above) what behaviors they want to include in their recovery. "The only requirement for membership is a desire to quit drinking."
My own experience is that drinking is linked to my other unhealthy tendencies - cigarette smoking and sexual mis-behavior. I quit the latter on the same day I quit drinking, and quit smoking after the first month and a half. I carefully monitor the other aspects of my life/consumption - I am by far the most accurate judge of whether something is crossing that line into a behavior that I am doing to "not feel" things. I've had to be attentive to my relationship with food, but that is subtle.
When you look at the fact that many members of the fellowship are using pharmaceuticals to modify their emotional landscape, I find it difficult to point a finger at the marijuana smoker in the room and tell them their sobriety doesn't count.
It has been easier for me (in terms of judgement and acceptance) to believe that we come to AA to become sober from alcohol. We are intelligent enough to gauge the other toxins in our lives, how we are using (or abusing) them, and finally, when we have the personal strength to release them from our being. I believe that this is a layered process, and that as our awareness and strength grow, we become more and more attuned to what is healthy for us and what isn't.
I have seen people with considerable recovery who still use rage and anger as a drug (because it releases adrenaline into the system, it actually changes the way you feel in your body).
I used to get frustrated with the low level of nutritional consciousness within the AA fellowship. I would look at people eating donuts and drinking gallons of coffee and smoking packs of cigarettes and think - really? why quit drinking just to kill yourself with all these other substances? But now I try to understand that we all just give up each thing as we are able. That we cannot judge anyone else's process. That I can also be judged.
I don't however buy into the whole "sugar, sex, cigs, coffee, pills, and more pills are ok, but marijuana is...just like alcohol." I realize that this is a reflection of my sub-culture and is outside the group-think, but that's where I stand...today, anyway...
My personal belief is that AA's primary purpose is to specifically address alcoholism, and that beyond that each participant has to decide (as patman says above) what behaviors they want to include in their recovery. "The only requirement for membership is a desire to quit drinking."
My own experience is that drinking is linked to my other unhealthy tendencies - cigarette smoking and sexual mis-behavior. I quit the latter on the same day I quit drinking, and quit smoking after the first month and a half. I carefully monitor the other aspects of my life/consumption - I am by far the most accurate judge of whether something is crossing that line into a behavior that I am doing to "not feel" things. I've had to be attentive to my relationship with food, but that is subtle.
When you look at the fact that many members of the fellowship are using pharmaceuticals to modify their emotional landscape, I find it difficult to point a finger at the marijuana smoker in the room and tell them their sobriety doesn't count.
It has been easier for me (in terms of judgement and acceptance) to believe that we come to AA to become sober from alcohol. We are intelligent enough to gauge the other toxins in our lives, how we are using (or abusing) them, and finally, when we have the personal strength to release them from our being. I believe that this is a layered process, and that as our awareness and strength grow, we become more and more attuned to what is healthy for us and what isn't.
I have seen people with considerable recovery who still use rage and anger as a drug (because it releases adrenaline into the system, it actually changes the way you feel in your body).
I used to get frustrated with the low level of nutritional consciousness within the AA fellowship. I would look at people eating donuts and drinking gallons of coffee and smoking packs of cigarettes and think - really? why quit drinking just to kill yourself with all these other substances? But now I try to understand that we all just give up each thing as we are able. That we cannot judge anyone else's process. That I can also be judged.
I don't however buy into the whole "sugar, sex, cigs, coffee, pills, and more pills are ok, but marijuana is...just like alcohol." I realize that this is a reflection of my sub-culture and is outside the group-think, but that's where I stand...today, anyway...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 136
Thanks for the responses.
Thepatman - Even in early on/off sobriety, I can see that your comment that a balanced life is the key. However it's not something that's universally practiced, when it comes to cigarette smoking, overeating and caffeine intake.
Since coming into sobriety, about 10 months ago, my cigarette smoking and caffeine intake has shot through the roof, and overeating is not far behind.
For a while there I was actually losing weight, which I imagine was due to not drinking beer or coca-cola (as a mixer to hard liqor) but now I'm heavier than I have ever been in my entire life. If I buy a packet of chocolate biscuits, I can quite readily see the 'one is too much, a hundred is never enough' and they won't last more than an hour. The internal justification is 'oh well, I'm sober today, I'll worry about overeating another time'.
Cigarette smoking - gosh, this has become a huge problem. I will go so far as to say it's touching on Step one, in that I am powerless, and my life is becoming unmanageable.
Coffee - I'm doing 15 cups a day at least, and by around 11am am already feeling like crap. This goes hand in hand with the excessive smoking. I am jittery, sleepless and physically unwell from it. See Step 1.
As for sex - I destroyed my last relationship almost two years ago, and am not one for casual encounters, despite how lonely I feel. And I don't think it's a very good idea to be in a relationship for a long time. But I have heard many stories in personal discussion from fellowship people where their sobriety was offset by sexual indiscretions, and it's something they have addressed later on in their sobriety. I have also spoken recently to sober people who are actively going on 'sex tours' yearly. While this isn't illegal in the country they go to, it's certainly not of a high ethical standard of living.
As for Benzo's, while I have tried the occasional one, they don't seem to do anything for me (I appear to be immune to 'downers', always have been, as I seem wired to be 'up' anytime a substance hits my brain) but the huge addiction potential stops me from pushing the envelope on these drugs and taking higher doses. Everything I have read though, would suggest that these are the worst thing that could be prescribed for an alcoholic. DISCLAIMER: I am not a medical professional, so do not speak for others. Consult you doctor and do plenty of research.
As for marijuana, I have had some sitting around for a little while, and it simply doesn't enter my head that I must use it as a replacement for alcohol or as a reward (like I consciously do with chocolate). It's quite the complete opposite to cigarettes, coffee and overeating. Rather, it's a tool that I use very occasionally to aid in creativity. Perhaps it's all about the context in which people approach it. I see no virtue in anyone deliberately using it as replacement therapy for drinking. There's a so called 'Marijuana Maintenance Program' or MMP that some people follow, and again, I'm in no position as a professional to comment, but as an individual, even I see this as a pretty bad idea.
And the same goes for alcohol, in the context of an NA member. While we (as AA'ers) are well aware of the addictive nature, that's for us, not for the entire world population. Many people readily promote the the discussion that our own issues cannot be projected onto non-problem drinkers, and that it's unwise to try and control others, or rid their peers from occasional drinking.
So the message of moderation I hear in the rooms is confusing. When I talk about my coffee & cigarette abuse since getting sober, it's almost always brushed off with a grin, and I'm told not to worry about it for now. Yet when I speak of occasional marijuana use, it's very much frowned upon. I have also broached a topic along the lines of what Bill W was workshopping in the 1950's as an adjunct to sobriety through enhancing one's spiritual connection (if you don't know, read his Wikipedia page - I fear that this isn't the place to deeply examine the subject, despite it being a legitimate, adult conversation in context) but that's also actively discouraged.
Therefore I get frustrated when the origin of these 'rules' are undetermined and quite selective. There's no 'one size fits all' for addiction potential, and the shutting down of discussion on specific matters, but the open promotion of other addictive behaviours is baffling.
Thepatman - Even in early on/off sobriety, I can see that your comment that a balanced life is the key. However it's not something that's universally practiced, when it comes to cigarette smoking, overeating and caffeine intake.
Since coming into sobriety, about 10 months ago, my cigarette smoking and caffeine intake has shot through the roof, and overeating is not far behind.
For a while there I was actually losing weight, which I imagine was due to not drinking beer or coca-cola (as a mixer to hard liqor) but now I'm heavier than I have ever been in my entire life. If I buy a packet of chocolate biscuits, I can quite readily see the 'one is too much, a hundred is never enough' and they won't last more than an hour. The internal justification is 'oh well, I'm sober today, I'll worry about overeating another time'.
Cigarette smoking - gosh, this has become a huge problem. I will go so far as to say it's touching on Step one, in that I am powerless, and my life is becoming unmanageable.
Coffee - I'm doing 15 cups a day at least, and by around 11am am already feeling like crap. This goes hand in hand with the excessive smoking. I am jittery, sleepless and physically unwell from it. See Step 1.
As for sex - I destroyed my last relationship almost two years ago, and am not one for casual encounters, despite how lonely I feel. And I don't think it's a very good idea to be in a relationship for a long time. But I have heard many stories in personal discussion from fellowship people where their sobriety was offset by sexual indiscretions, and it's something they have addressed later on in their sobriety. I have also spoken recently to sober people who are actively going on 'sex tours' yearly. While this isn't illegal in the country they go to, it's certainly not of a high ethical standard of living.
As for Benzo's, while I have tried the occasional one, they don't seem to do anything for me (I appear to be immune to 'downers', always have been, as I seem wired to be 'up' anytime a substance hits my brain) but the huge addiction potential stops me from pushing the envelope on these drugs and taking higher doses. Everything I have read though, would suggest that these are the worst thing that could be prescribed for an alcoholic. DISCLAIMER: I am not a medical professional, so do not speak for others. Consult you doctor and do plenty of research.
As for marijuana, I have had some sitting around for a little while, and it simply doesn't enter my head that I must use it as a replacement for alcohol or as a reward (like I consciously do with chocolate). It's quite the complete opposite to cigarettes, coffee and overeating. Rather, it's a tool that I use very occasionally to aid in creativity. Perhaps it's all about the context in which people approach it. I see no virtue in anyone deliberately using it as replacement therapy for drinking. There's a so called 'Marijuana Maintenance Program' or MMP that some people follow, and again, I'm in no position as a professional to comment, but as an individual, even I see this as a pretty bad idea.
And the same goes for alcohol, in the context of an NA member. While we (as AA'ers) are well aware of the addictive nature, that's for us, not for the entire world population. Many people readily promote the the discussion that our own issues cannot be projected onto non-problem drinkers, and that it's unwise to try and control others, or rid their peers from occasional drinking.
So the message of moderation I hear in the rooms is confusing. When I talk about my coffee & cigarette abuse since getting sober, it's almost always brushed off with a grin, and I'm told not to worry about it for now. Yet when I speak of occasional marijuana use, it's very much frowned upon. I have also broached a topic along the lines of what Bill W was workshopping in the 1950's as an adjunct to sobriety through enhancing one's spiritual connection (if you don't know, read his Wikipedia page - I fear that this isn't the place to deeply examine the subject, despite it being a legitimate, adult conversation in context) but that's also actively discouraged.
Therefore I get frustrated when the origin of these 'rules' are undetermined and quite selective. There's no 'one size fits all' for addiction potential, and the shutting down of discussion on specific matters, but the open promotion of other addictive behaviours is baffling.
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
Everyone is different and we're all at different stages and for various reasons. I'm about 14 months sober from alcohol, but I started eliminating other drugs long before that. First powders, then psychedelics, then weed, then alcohol, pills, sugar binging, and finally caffeine. My sober date is the day I quit alcohol, and for me it was the most problematic. Recently, I had surgery and was saturated with oxy and muscle relaxants. Has it blown my sobriety? Hell yes, but I didn't drink and after many tortured weeks I am now about 15 hours clean. And I am having symptoms. It has interefered with my overal recovery.
To me, recovery means learning to respond to life's challenges without reaching for substances, whether it's alcohol, pills, food binging, or obsessive sexual behavior. So I understanding why people get weird about abusing substances other than the substance of choice. A junkie who "only smokes" is moving forward and it doesn't help to prematurely harp on his tobacco addiction. Ultimately, though, any side addiction interferes with recovery and until we learn to accept and procees our emotions without addictive compulsions we still have a lot of work to do. Sometimes this even applies to prescribed medication, but I would not go so far as to say always, though medical marijuana would likely interfere with recovery just like these painkillers interfered with mine.
To me, recovery means learning to respond to life's challenges without reaching for substances, whether it's alcohol, pills, food binging, or obsessive sexual behavior. So I understanding why people get weird about abusing substances other than the substance of choice. A junkie who "only smokes" is moving forward and it doesn't help to prematurely harp on his tobacco addiction. Ultimately, though, any side addiction interferes with recovery and until we learn to accept and procees our emotions without addictive compulsions we still have a lot of work to do. Sometimes this even applies to prescribed medication, but I would not go so far as to say always, though medical marijuana would likely interfere with recovery just like these painkillers interfered with mine.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 136
Great reply. May I ask, do you consider yourself back at Day 1 due to the oxys? I would think that prescription substances, taken for the intended purpose, is not a bust - but it open up a whole range of questions if one was a recovering opiate addict. Or a marijuana addict if they used grass for therapeutic purposes.
I'm starting to realize that I'm still overthinking things too much, and need to go with the flow. This has been an ongoing impediment to my sustained sobriety from alcohol. At the end of the day, the individual alone is responsible for their own wellbeing. If one person frowns upon me using something occasionally (even for recreation), then they're taking my inventory for me. I know within my heart, and some age behind me, what the problems are... and they are alcohol, but for the past year also cigarettes and coffee. The overeating doesn't really concern me at the moment although it's a lifestyle adjustment that I can address later.
I'm starting to realize that I'm still overthinking things too much, and need to go with the flow. This has been an ongoing impediment to my sustained sobriety from alcohol. At the end of the day, the individual alone is responsible for their own wellbeing. If one person frowns upon me using something occasionally (even for recreation), then they're taking my inventory for me. I know within my heart, and some age behind me, what the problems are... and they are alcohol, but for the past year also cigarettes and coffee. The overeating doesn't really concern me at the moment although it's a lifestyle adjustment that I can address later.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,445
I think we all need to be honest with ourselves.
I suffer from chronic pain. I use codeine for pain relief, when required.
I don't consider my recovery is compromised by that - I take as directed, or less than directed and it's about dealing with pain, not getting high.
I would not use marijuana in the same way - I was addicted to pot for many years and it was all about the high.
I hope you don't feel I'm 'taking your inventory' when I say be careful with pot. It has a way of creeping up on you.
D
I suffer from chronic pain. I use codeine for pain relief, when required.
I don't consider my recovery is compromised by that - I take as directed, or less than directed and it's about dealing with pain, not getting high.
I would not use marijuana in the same way - I was addicted to pot for many years and it was all about the high.
I hope you don't feel I'm 'taking your inventory' when I say be careful with pot. It has a way of creeping up on you.
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 136
Originally Posted by Dee74 
I think we all need to be honest with ourselves.
Originally Posted by Dee74
I would not use marijuana in the same way - I was addicted to pot for many years and it was all about the high.
I hope you don't feel I'm 'taking your inventory' when I say be careful with pot. It has a way of creeping up on you.
I hope you don't feel I'm 'taking your inventory' when I say be careful with pot. It has a way of creeping up on you.
To put it into perspective, my usage is not dissimilar to the person who might have a couple of glasses of wine once a month. And on that note, I'm quite surprised when my NA friends (I'm part of a cross-substance fellowship of sorts as well as AA) tell me that the NA agenda means no alcohol, even if they have never had a drinking issue.
One thing is clear, replacing your drug of addiction with a substance that has been seen to lead into misuse within that person's history is unwise. The whole 'Marijuana Maintenance Program' that some people speak of, sounds like a risky proposition.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Gatineau, QC, CA
Posts: 5,100
My balance comment did not include smoking weed or cigarettes in a balanced way. It was aimed specifically at things like chocolate, it's fine to have a bit here and there. But depending on big amounts everyday for example, is not healthy.
Another example is I started working out. Excessively. Not a good idea even if working out is considered healthy. Balance, is key.
Good luck!
Another example is I started working out. Excessively. Not a good idea even if working out is considered healthy. Balance, is key.
Good luck!
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
Since you asked, I do not consider taking oxy after surgery as going back to day one. Like Dee, I took it as directed for a specific purpose. After all, the doc carved bone off my spine and peeled nerves that had adhered to a blown disc. Without something strong I would have lost my mind. The truth is pills had never been a problem for me (though I admit a love affair with opium decades ago) until I got sober and started using old pain meds in my cabinet for anxiety. There is no doubt I appreciated being high when I was in so much pain recently. It reduced anxiety about everything that could go wrong after invasive surgery. But this is exactly why I wanted to wean as soon as I could stand it, and I'm grateful I had the presence of mind to keep on top of it.
I agree that you are overthinking it. Take care of yourself and try not to let the judgement of others mess with your head. You're on the right track.
I agree that you are overthinking it. Take care of yourself and try not to let the judgement of others mess with your head. You're on the right track.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Western NY
Posts: 1,209
Shamal - the one word of caution that I would add is that addiction isn't static, and it tends to worsen over time. A drug that someone might be able to take or leave at one point in life may be a drug that almost immediately results in a daily habit at a different point in live.
For example, I long thought that my addiction to opiates was very drug-class specific and that it would remain that way. Your description of your view of benzos looks exactly like something I would have told myself as early as a year ago. The same goes for alcohol. Last summer I went on an amphetamine binge and started using benzos / booze to offset the anxiety. The amps ran out, but the benzos / booze didn't. All the sudden I found myself up to my neck in a daily habit with both of them. The whole time I was telling myself "what is the deal...you don't even really like these." The whole thing lasted maybe 2 months, but I even caught a mild physical withdrawal from it when I quit. It was all day everyday though. Shortly afterwards I relapsed back to the opiates, and I am still trying to dig myself out of that hole.
I know this is a little off topic of your original question, but your description was a stark reminder to me of the way I used to view benzos / booze. That line of thinking cost me dearly. Everyone is different, but there is a reason that the NA folks talk about alcohol being another drug. I am real stubborn and I almost always have to learn lessons for myself no matter how many warnings I get though.
For example, I long thought that my addiction to opiates was very drug-class specific and that it would remain that way. Your description of your view of benzos looks exactly like something I would have told myself as early as a year ago. The same goes for alcohol. Last summer I went on an amphetamine binge and started using benzos / booze to offset the anxiety. The amps ran out, but the benzos / booze didn't. All the sudden I found myself up to my neck in a daily habit with both of them. The whole time I was telling myself "what is the deal...you don't even really like these." The whole thing lasted maybe 2 months, but I even caught a mild physical withdrawal from it when I quit. It was all day everyday though. Shortly afterwards I relapsed back to the opiates, and I am still trying to dig myself out of that hole.
I know this is a little off topic of your original question, but your description was a stark reminder to me of the way I used to view benzos / booze. That line of thinking cost me dearly. Everyone is different, but there is a reason that the NA folks talk about alcohol being another drug. I am real stubborn and I almost always have to learn lessons for myself no matter how many warnings I get though.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 136
Originally Posted by zerothehero
I agree that you are overthinking it. Take care of yourself and try not to let the judgement of others mess with your head.
Hope you're on the mend from your surgery and all is going well for you
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 136
OpioPhobe, thanks for sharing. I know that you are applying your experience to all substances, but regarding the benzo's, I'm actually quite frightened about the addiction potential, and what I have seen in others.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: California
Posts: 87
I totally agree with you heartcore. In my outpatient program people were on all kinds of prescription drugs, but marajuana was prohibited. I smoke it like twice a year. I think I'll use it occasionally after I get through my steps. My problem is alcohol, not drugs. I've taken Vicodin after surgery and only used 1/2 the bottle. If I am prescribed it, I'm going to take it, but not abuse it. If I smoke a joint once every blue moon (the saying, not the beer!) with friends after a hike, I don't think it effects my alcohol abstinence. Now, if I smoke it every day like some friends I have, then Ill start to worry.
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
There were times in my past that I quit alcohol but continued with moderate use of other drugs. I always ended up drinking again. One of my best drinking buddies did the same. He would detox from alcohol and then get a bag of weed. Last time he returned to alcohol it killed him.
The bottom line, and this is just my humble opinion from painful experience and from much reading, is as long as you're still looking for a buzz you're not really in recovery. Sober, maybe, but not recovering. Recovery is about accepting yourself, clean and sober, with all your strengths and weaknesses and all your psychological and emotional states, negative and positive. Recovering is about valuing clarity and natural living and not WANTING to be high on anything but the beauty of life and the miracle of living in a functioning body.
The bottom line, and this is just my humble opinion from painful experience and from much reading, is as long as you're still looking for a buzz you're not really in recovery. Sober, maybe, but not recovering. Recovery is about accepting yourself, clean and sober, with all your strengths and weaknesses and all your psychological and emotional states, negative and positive. Recovering is about valuing clarity and natural living and not WANTING to be high on anything but the beauty of life and the miracle of living in a functioning body.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 136
Originally Posted by zerothehero
The bottom line, and this is just my humble opinion from painful experience and from much reading, is as long as you're still looking for a buzz you're not really in recovery. Sober, maybe, but not recovering. Recovery is about accepting yourself, clean and sober, with all your strengths and weaknesses and all your psychological and emotional states, negative and positive. Recovering is about valuing clarity and natural living and not WANTING to be high on anything but the beauty of life and the miracle of living in a functioning body.
Clearly I am chasing a buzz in my sobriety, and quite obviously it's doing me damage. Yet the mainstream message in AA is that coffee & cigarettes should be of no concern to those in early sobriety. Those same people whose standard response to anyone using marijuana is NO WAY. This is really insane. If I were to have smoked a tiny amount of marijuana last night, played some guitar, meditated and gone to bed, my Saturday would have been much richer for it.
Sorry to harp on about this, but I'm really feeling that it's a patronizing message that I hear (at meetings, I'm referring to, really, ) that promotes the idea of self-harm in sobriety by ignoring the fact that cigarettes and coffee can be incredibly harmful to recovery. Then on the other hand criticize doing something else, that is, and has always, been well under control for my entire life. I'm sure this is a stigma on acceptable vs unacceptable substance use in our society and gives no regard to the individual.
Although I don't adopt the position of zerothehero in that I'm not really in recovery because I smoke cigarettes and drink coffee (or smoke a small amount of marijuana from time to time), I am clearly not giving myself the chance to experience 'the fruits of recovery' by abusing myself.
Is my life better when I don't drink alcohol ? Absolutely ! Is it the best that can be hoped for ? Absolutely not ! I am powerless over cigarettes and coffee, and I just don't know where to turn
AA is not the place for support, because when I bring it up, everyone tells me not to worry about it for now.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 136
And not that it matters in the big picture of staying 'clean;, but I am unemployed, live alone, and constantly struggling with money. But I blow $$$ on smoking ! For the beefit of readers in other countries, cigarettes where I am are $27 a packet ! (that's about $22 US). Even at one packet a day, that's $200 a week. My governemnt benefits are $300/wk, and my rent sis $400/wk. So even without smoking, I can't afford to live, yet I blow money on cigarettes. This sounds like the behaviour of someone drinking or abusing drugs. Guess how much I have spend on weed ? $50 in the past 6 months, or a mere $2/week.
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
It's all a waste of money and health. I have to agree that moderate marijuana use pales in comparison to two packs of cigs and a dozen cups of coffee when it comes to health. You're wired to the teeth bordering crack or speed addiction. Brutal. In the US there are hotlines and govt programs to get help for nicotine. Maybe where you are?
I think spending less energy on your concerns about others' hypocrisy and more on your own addictions would be more productive.
I think spending less energy on your concerns about others' hypocrisy and more on your own addictions would be more productive.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,445
If you know cigs and coffee and whatever else are harmful to you, but you do it anyway - how is that the fault of those guys at the meetings, much less 'AA' as a whole?
If it's not their fault...then I don't get what your grievance is, beyond pedantry (and I so understand that - I think most of us could do that for the Olympics), or perhaps another level of rationalisation for pot use - 'at least I never go ape with pot'...
I knew full well that my smoking was ridiculous, as was my pot use, and alcoholism, and my caffeine intake.
So I stopped.
You probably should stop the stuff that's concerning you too.
D
If it's not their fault...then I don't get what your grievance is, beyond pedantry (and I so understand that - I think most of us could do that for the Olympics), or perhaps another level of rationalisation for pot use - 'at least I never go ape with pot'...
I knew full well that my smoking was ridiculous, as was my pot use, and alcoholism, and my caffeine intake.
So I stopped.
You probably should stop the stuff that's concerning you too.
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 136
Originally Posted by Dee74
If you know cigs and coffee and whatever else are harmful to you, but you do it anyway - how is that the fault of those guys at the meetings, much less 'AA' as a whole?
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
