Shocked in AA meeting
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 985
If you go to a real old-school aa meeting, the oldies will say "for the first 90 days, take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth and just listen."
If she accosts you again, you can say - "I'm working on listening. That's what I need for my sobriety right now."
I love aa. That being said, there is a very high proportion of dysfunctional folks in aa. Because all are alcoholics, and many were raised in alcoholic families that had crappy communication modeling. There are people who lie, people who harass, people who mostly want to get laid, and people who you don't want to know where you live. There are people who are about to relapse. People who are cruel.
There are also people who are warm and genuine. There are people who will come and get you at 2 in the morning if that is what you need to stay sober. There are people who will listen intently to your sharing, even if you are sharing the same content for months. There are people who care if you get sober.
Find the good ones. Keep a healthy distance from the sick ones. That's all you can do. I am learning a great deal about boundary setting from my time in aa, and I needed to learn that in all aspects of my life.
Just last month, a very creepy guy in aa started phone and text stalking me. I had given him my number after many requests, and then had clarified that it was only for emergencies. This was foolish, but there is so much number exchanging going on that I thought for a second that I was being too self-protective, and gave in. After a whole series of angry, insulting texts (when I said I wouldn't meet him for coffee), I sat in a meeting in which his public share was a bitter diatribe directed at me (although he didn't name me). I too am a sensitive soul (seems almost like there are two types of alcoholics - the very sensitive ones and the very angry ones).
I told my sponsor about him, and told one of the old-timer guys. I ignored him at meetings. I mean, really ignored him, so that when he said hello to me I just kept walking. I almost switched my meeting schedule to avoid him, but then realized that this was ridiculous, as I had done nothing wrong.
Except, allowing a fella to guilt me into giving him my phone number. And that was a critical piece of information for me in my recovery, because as I looked at my personal history, I noticed that I allowed (a certain kind of) men to guilt me into all sorts of boundary modifications.
My point is that this very uncomfortable exchange with an aa member opened up an awareness that reflected some light on my own inabilities to self-protect. And it was - ultimately - useful. But very uncomfortable while it was happening.
Don't stop going to a meeting you love. Do find ways to feel connected and involved, even if sharing in a meeting isn't one of them yet. But, most importantly, figure out if getting bullied and judged on your natural behaviors is something that has happened in other contexts, figure out what you'll say to her if she approaches again, and then say it. Consider it practice. You can't stay sober if you allow people to hurt your feelings. Here is an opportunity to own your personal truth and style. Wear yourself with pride.
If she accosts you again, you can say - "I'm working on listening. That's what I need for my sobriety right now."
I love aa. That being said, there is a very high proportion of dysfunctional folks in aa. Because all are alcoholics, and many were raised in alcoholic families that had crappy communication modeling. There are people who lie, people who harass, people who mostly want to get laid, and people who you don't want to know where you live. There are people who are about to relapse. People who are cruel.
There are also people who are warm and genuine. There are people who will come and get you at 2 in the morning if that is what you need to stay sober. There are people who will listen intently to your sharing, even if you are sharing the same content for months. There are people who care if you get sober.
Find the good ones. Keep a healthy distance from the sick ones. That's all you can do. I am learning a great deal about boundary setting from my time in aa, and I needed to learn that in all aspects of my life.
Just last month, a very creepy guy in aa started phone and text stalking me. I had given him my number after many requests, and then had clarified that it was only for emergencies. This was foolish, but there is so much number exchanging going on that I thought for a second that I was being too self-protective, and gave in. After a whole series of angry, insulting texts (when I said I wouldn't meet him for coffee), I sat in a meeting in which his public share was a bitter diatribe directed at me (although he didn't name me). I too am a sensitive soul (seems almost like there are two types of alcoholics - the very sensitive ones and the very angry ones).
I told my sponsor about him, and told one of the old-timer guys. I ignored him at meetings. I mean, really ignored him, so that when he said hello to me I just kept walking. I almost switched my meeting schedule to avoid him, but then realized that this was ridiculous, as I had done nothing wrong.
Except, allowing a fella to guilt me into giving him my phone number. And that was a critical piece of information for me in my recovery, because as I looked at my personal history, I noticed that I allowed (a certain kind of) men to guilt me into all sorts of boundary modifications.
My point is that this very uncomfortable exchange with an aa member opened up an awareness that reflected some light on my own inabilities to self-protect. And it was - ultimately - useful. But very uncomfortable while it was happening.
Don't stop going to a meeting you love. Do find ways to feel connected and involved, even if sharing in a meeting isn't one of them yet. But, most importantly, figure out if getting bullied and judged on your natural behaviors is something that has happened in other contexts, figure out what you'll say to her if she approaches again, and then say it. Consider it practice. You can't stay sober if you allow people to hurt your feelings. Here is an opportunity to own your personal truth and style. Wear yourself with pride.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
The solution to being an alcoholics are the steps it AA which require written work and a want to work through them in order to change. They are outlined in the AA Big Book clear as day with instructions on how to work through them.
Get a Big Book, read it and understand that if there is anything being said to you other than what is written in the Book it is just an opinion.
IMO it sounds like this woman is trying to help but that doesn't make her right?! Time will tell if you made the right decision to not take her advice
Get a Big Book, read it and understand that if there is anything being said to you other than what is written in the Book it is just an opinion.
IMO it sounds like this woman is trying to help but that doesn't make her right?! Time will tell if you made the right decision to not take her advice
totfit
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ft Collins, CO
Posts: 1,273
Just because someone has sobriety, sometimes for years, does not mean they are not sick. Self-righteousness is often a result of low self-esteem and this "lady" was seems to have a case of it. "Sponsorship" has gotten way off base from the original intent. Many folks in AA and outside of AA take it upon themselves to tell others how to lead their lives when they have difficulty leading their own. Take it for what it is and just ignore.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,572
AA is really about working the steps, not meetings.
And the early AA meetings were ALL speaker meetings, not all this touchy feely sharing thing, which really came about through the group therapy/rehab movement.
I think this woman was WAY out of line, and should be told to mind her own business, if you see fit.
Then again, she's probably trying, in a very inept and clumsy way to bring you out of your shell. Who knows where she is at in her own life, but I'd try and realize that she certainly has problems of her own. Therefore, take anything that ANYONE in AA says with a grain.
And the early AA meetings were ALL speaker meetings, not all this touchy feely sharing thing, which really came about through the group therapy/rehab movement.
I think this woman was WAY out of line, and should be told to mind her own business, if you see fit.
Then again, she's probably trying, in a very inept and clumsy way to bring you out of your shell. Who knows where she is at in her own life, but I'd try and realize that she certainly has problems of her own. Therefore, take anything that ANYONE in AA says with a grain.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
I like number 55 of the "musts" list that Hawks referred to.
55. NEVER talk down to an alcoholic from any moral or spiritual hilltop; simply lay out the kit of spiritual tools for his inspection.
You might want to refer her to that quote.
55. NEVER talk down to an alcoholic from any moral or spiritual hilltop; simply lay out the kit of spiritual tools for his inspection.
You might want to refer her to that quote.
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,476
Originally Posted by awuh1 
I like number 55 of the "musts" list that Hawks referred to.
55. NEVER talk down to an alcoholic from any moral or spiritual hilltop; simply lay out the kit of spiritual tools for his inspection.
You might want to refer her to that quote.
55. NEVER talk down to an alcoholic from any moral or spiritual hilltop; simply lay out the kit of spiritual tools for his inspection.
You might want to refer her to that quote.
Seems to me this was the root cause of this thread.
How do you lay out the tools?
Encourage someone to speak / share at a meeting?
Isn't that one of the tools we use?
Seems to me this is a good way to be accused of all sorts of things and to get a few names thrown in for good measure.
Ebby had to talk to Bill to "lay out the tools" & talk to him about what he had found.
Bill liked that so much.... He DID get drunk.
Dr Bob liked the idea of some crackpot coming to talk to him about his drinking habits that he vowed and declared Bill was not going to get anymore than ten minutes of his time. (Bill got nearly 5 hours of Bobs time that night and a subsequent lifetime of fellowship)
And here some of us are, 80 something years later, all hyper concerned that someone should talk to someone else.
If no one had bothered to go talk to Bill and tell him a few things he didn't want to hear.... We might not have an AA to complain about.
If Bill hadn't gone to Bob and told him a few things... We certainly wouldn't have any AA members to complain about... There would be no AA members.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
My problem is connecting with the women. I have always gotten along much better with guys I guess, as they don't bring all the drama and snarky crap up all the time.
Luper, it might help if you start to identify how much your inner voice is shaping your response to life. You state right off the bat, you can't connect with women, and that we "bring drama and snarky crap". And, not just sometimes, "all the time"!
First of all ,er, thanks a lot for the compliment, and secondly...that's your inner voice.
Were you listening to it when that lady came to talk to you?
Our perceptions of other people is generally shaped about 90% by who we already think they are and about 10% of who they actually are.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,444
I get what you're trying to say...but accusations (or in this case what I would call assumptions) aren't talking down, no.
You need to be addressing someone to talk down to them.
None of us were there except the OP.
I don't think I made any assumptions, unless taking the OP at face value can be considered an assumption
In any case even if you were right and we were talking down to this unidentified woman, would two wrongs make a right?
D
You need to be addressing someone to talk down to them.
None of us were there except the OP.
I don't think I made any assumptions, unless taking the OP at face value can be considered an assumption
In any case even if you were right and we were talking down to this unidentified woman, would two wrongs make a right?
D
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
Originally Posted by Hawks
And here some of us are, 80 something years later, all hyper concerned that someone should talk to someone else.
Originally Posted by Luper
I mainly just go to listen and learn from these people as I have horrible social anxiety issues.
this woman... took me aside and LAID into me about only attending meetings on weekends and not sharing during the meeting. She told me I would never succeed in my recovery that way and that I needed to seek out other meetings and share my story.
this woman... took me aside and LAID into me about only attending meetings on weekends and not sharing during the meeting. She told me I would never succeed in my recovery that way and that I needed to seek out other meetings and share my story.
Using the phrase "Laid into me" does not sound like someone just talking to someone. Saying you'll never get sober unless you do X Y and Z is fear based, and is clearly talking down to someone. It's saying 'I know the right way and you need to do what I tell you or you will fail'.
I believe that there is reason for saying things like #55, and for the sentence "Our book is meant to be suggestive only". That's because it's exactly what was intended.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 39
I think if you really missed the meeting and it was helping you, go back...
I know you said that you prefer to listen and learn. You and your sobriety are all you need to focus on....If you really want/need that meeting you could tell them kindly.....
Hi, I really love this meeting and sharing is very hard for me but I learn something
from it everytime I come that helps me.....thanks
I know you said that you prefer to listen and learn. You and your sobriety are all you need to focus on....If you really want/need that meeting you could tell them kindly.....
Hi, I really love this meeting and sharing is very hard for me but I learn something
from it everytime I come that helps me.....thanks
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,476
Depends on the view of a wrong I guess.
Given that the OP has had a realisation that the unsolicited "advice" was an attempt to help, was it wrong of that person to give the advice?
I see encouragement... At first deemed wrong by the OP, later deemed "possibly right"
As with all advice, the perception isn't always right.... At first.
I was "advised" countless times to seek help with my drinking problem, I, at first, deemed all those people and all their advice categorically "wrong" because I couldn't perceive a problem.
In the long run.... Who was "categorically wrong"?
Me!!
Oops
Given that the OP has had a realisation that the unsolicited "advice" was an attempt to help, was it wrong of that person to give the advice?
I see encouragement... At first deemed wrong by the OP, later deemed "possibly right"
As with all advice, the perception isn't always right.... At first.
I was "advised" countless times to seek help with my drinking problem, I, at first, deemed all those people and all their advice categorically "wrong" because I couldn't perceive a problem.
In the long run.... Who was "categorically wrong"?
Me!!
Oops
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 355
My first instinct is to say just ignore someone who is being rude, but littlefish brought up a very interesting possibility. We all walk into situations with our own inner dialogue and expectations filtering what we see and hear. Maybe a part of your journey will involve healing your relationship with women. And it sounds like somewhere inside of you you're hearing a little truth in what she said.
It's something to consider. But good for you for using your tools and not drinking over the situation. Kudos!
It's something to consider. But good for you for using your tools and not drinking over the situation. Kudos!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Nutmegger
Posts: 1,799
Maybe tell her you are in the witness protection program?
Or that Bill W. is your great uncle and you talk so much about AA at home?
Or that when you have shared in the past you have lost control, stood on a chair and burst into operatic rap?
Or that you are considering becoming a nun and working on your vow of silence?
Or ask her if you stick a banana in someone's exhaust pipe will it really make the car backfire?
Or tell her what you are doing is working and if you need her advice in the future you know where to reach her……
.
Or that Bill W. is your great uncle and you talk so much about AA at home?
Or that when you have shared in the past you have lost control, stood on a chair and burst into operatic rap?
Or that you are considering becoming a nun and working on your vow of silence?
Or ask her if you stick a banana in someone's exhaust pipe will it really make the car backfire?
Or tell her what you are doing is working and if you need her advice in the future you know where to reach her……
.
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,476
Originally Posted by awuh1
I believe you are missing the point. The OP says very plainly....
Does that sound like 'simply laying out a kit of spiritual tools'?
Using the phrase "Laid into me" does not sound like someone just talking to someone. Saying you'll never get sober unless you do X Y and Z is fear based, and is clearly talking down to someone. It's saying 'I know the right way and you need to do what I tell you or you will fail'.
I believe that there is reason for saying things like #55, and for the sentence "Our book is meant to be suggestive only". That's because it's exactly what was intended.
Does that sound like 'simply laying out a kit of spiritual tools'?
Using the phrase "Laid into me" does not sound like someone just talking to someone. Saying you'll never get sober unless you do X Y and Z is fear based, and is clearly talking down to someone. It's saying 'I know the right way and you need to do what I tell you or you will fail'.
I believe that there is reason for saying things like #55, and for the sentence "Our book is meant to be suggestive only". That's because it's exactly what was intended.
It's not in Bills Story in the book, but what odds Bill had thoughts after Ebby's visit & subsequent suggestions, along the lines of "that son of a bit*h... How dare he suggest some magic bloody sky fairy is going to save my ass"
He changed his mind about Ebby's suggested recovery method.
He must have, or there would be no AA.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
Originally Posted by Hawks
Fact remains... Ebby suggested to Bill that there was a solution to his drinking problem and Bill didn't want to hear it. At first.
Seems he changed his mind on Ebby's suggestions.
He must have, or there would be no AA.
Seems he changed his mind on Ebby's suggestions.
He must have, or there would be no AA.
I don't recall hearing about Ebby telling Bill to go to more meetings.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,572
I think Dee makes a pretty interesting point.
I do have to admit, however, that early in sobriety, I did not always read peoples intentions well, and I had a few altercations where I was clearly, oversensitive, easily offended, or making huge leaps of judgement.
Part of it was me suffering from PAWS terribly, and Dee himself can attest to my inability to stay out of my own way.
Nowadays, I feel much more even keel, and I can even identify things that certainly would have sent me reeling back in the day, and observe my feelings about it in a more detached manner.
I do have to admit, however, that early in sobriety, I did not always read peoples intentions well, and I had a few altercations where I was clearly, oversensitive, easily offended, or making huge leaps of judgement.
Part of it was me suffering from PAWS terribly, and Dee himself can attest to my inability to stay out of my own way.
Nowadays, I feel much more even keel, and I can even identify things that certainly would have sent me reeling back in the day, and observe my feelings about it in a more detached manner.
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