1 Question about Sobriety, AA, Sponsors and the Steps
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Originally Posted by SoberComposer 
I enjoy freedom.
I don't want to be defined by the past.
I'd rather focus on the future and plan goals!
I see things in my life that I could seriously excel at but know that I am discarding all of that if I drink, not to mention the hordes of other bad things it brings.
I don't want to be defined by the past.
I'd rather focus on the future and plan goals!
I see things in my life that I could seriously excel at but know that I am discarding all of that if I drink, not to mention the hordes of other bad things it brings.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: midwest
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by jaynie04
SoberComposer..I have not struggled much either. I am in my second year of sobriety and found the invariable assumption that I was on the verge of relapsing very frustrating as well. I had an addiction specialist who consistently attempted to poke holes in my sobriety because I was not doing it her way. There wasn't enough room in her office for me, her and her ego…so I left them alone. 
What you are expressing is having boundaries. In my opinion that is exceedingly important to any healthy psyche. You are listening to you gut, you are committed and you are willing to explore different avenues to aid your sobriety. The key word is "your" sobriety.
We don't abandon ourselves simply because we get sober. And just because I suffer from a similar affliction as others does not make it safe or okay for me to forego the same precautions I would take in any social situation. Just because I happen to be eating in the same restaurant or in the same theatre as others doesn't mean other patrons have carte blanche to invade my life.
I bristled when I was told I would fail. And then when I succeeded I was told I was doing it "the hard way". The only time it felt hard, was when I was doing something that felt like it was taking me out of who I am. When I was doing it someone else's way and not mine.
A lot of alcoholics drink because they are uncomfortable in social situations. It makes sense therefore that even though sober often some of the emotional intelligence that one would normally expect might be wanting. I have always resented being pressured by others. I don't pressure people, I feel it is respectful to let them find their way. I expect the same in turn.
I came to SR and asked for support when I felt railroaded by a therapist, psychiatrist, and sober coach working in tandem (on my wallet). They were the authorities and I was not entitled to an opinion, and when I disagreed I was met with raised eyebrows and knowing looks. Thank god I listened when every part of me was screaming "this is so wrong".
This is a marathon, not a sprint. It doesn't sound like you are on tenterhooks..which gives you the luxury to find your way. Keep asking questions and continue to honor your boundaries.
What you are expressing is having boundaries. In my opinion that is exceedingly important to any healthy psyche. You are listening to you gut, you are committed and you are willing to explore different avenues to aid your sobriety. The key word is "your" sobriety.
We don't abandon ourselves simply because we get sober. And just because I suffer from a similar affliction as others does not make it safe or okay for me to forego the same precautions I would take in any social situation. Just because I happen to be eating in the same restaurant or in the same theatre as others doesn't mean other patrons have carte blanche to invade my life.
I bristled when I was told I would fail. And then when I succeeded I was told I was doing it "the hard way". The only time it felt hard, was when I was doing something that felt like it was taking me out of who I am. When I was doing it someone else's way and not mine.
A lot of alcoholics drink because they are uncomfortable in social situations. It makes sense therefore that even though sober often some of the emotional intelligence that one would normally expect might be wanting. I have always resented being pressured by others. I don't pressure people, I feel it is respectful to let them find their way. I expect the same in turn.
I came to SR and asked for support when I felt railroaded by a therapist, psychiatrist, and sober coach working in tandem (on my wallet). They were the authorities and I was not entitled to an opinion, and when I disagreed I was met with raised eyebrows and knowing looks. Thank god I listened when every part of me was screaming "this is so wrong".
This is a marathon, not a sprint. It doesn't sound like you are on tenterhooks..which gives you the luxury to find your way. Keep asking questions and continue to honor your boundaries.
I completly agree with this wonderful post, thank you Jaynie04! It does seem that so many people think what works for some also must work for others. I do appreciate the thought of concern and attempts to help. When they get frustrated and become offensive though then the helpfulness and positive conern becomes inversed. I didn't realize this until you said it but it is about boundries
. Something that I didnt have much of in my youth. Until my last breakup with someone who was not good for me (2.5yrs ago) I realized I had few boundries when it comes to "red flags". We just have to be careful with our personal investments, peace of mind and time. Pain is an alert for me that lessons applicable to our decesion-making is near. Facing these lessons is the core of my evolution.
Much love All!
You all are amazing people
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sarasota, FL
Posts: 223
I am new to the program but it took me 100+ days to ask someone to be my sponsor. I was able to stay sober just going to meetings for that time but I kept hearing "you need to get a sponsor" and I really wanted to actually jump in with both feet so I finally asked someone. She does not have the exact same experience as me but she does have many years of sobriety and knows what it's like to be an alcoholic and I'm learning that those are the most important similarities that I need to have with someone. As alcohol abusers we often over think everything and talk ourselves out of anything that could be beneficial to our sobriety. Take the plunge! What's the worst that could happen? A sponsor shouldn't pressure but encourage you to work on yourself!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: midwest
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by Rina
I am new to the program but it took me 100+ days to ask someone to be my sponsor. I was able to stay sober just going to meetings for that time but I kept hearing "you need to get a sponsor" and I really wanted to actually jump in with both feet so I finally asked someone. She does not have the exact same experience as me but she does have many years of sobriety and knows what it's like to be an alcoholic and I'm learning that those are the most important similarities that I need to have with someone. As alcohol abusers we often over think everything and talk ourselves out of anything that could be beneficial to our sobriety. Take the plunge! What's the worst that could happen? A sponsor shouldn't pressure but encourage you to work on yourself!
Thank you though! I very much appreciate your help and happy that it is working good for you
! That is truly wonderful!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 12,000
SoberComposer, this has been a very lively discussion you started. I finally went through all of the responses.
Your attitude is very similar to mine. My experience is very similar to soberlicious - not our path to this place, but our response to how we dealt with it.
I experienced something - an event - that changed my life overnight. It was directly related to alcohol. I made a decision then and there that I would never allow alcohol an opportunity to affect my life ever again. I had to go to rehab and IOP and AA as part of the 'treatment plan' as directed by my employer at the time. When treatment was done my employer essentially terminated me. *** Don't anyone jump in with legal advice about this - it is very complicated ***
I had AAers tell me if I didn't do it their way I would relapse and probably be dead in a few years. How can someone who doesn't even know my life story or circumstances make such a brash statement to me? But it wasn't just someone, it was some-many.
I found the entire process - the preaching and sanctimonious posturing - to be quite a put off. Even so, I tried to go along and give it a shot. I got a sponsor. The more time I spent among this group of people the more I was totally turned off by the entire process.
I have read the big book. I understand what the steps are about and their purpose. I was also during this time looking into alternatives because I didn't want what they had. And that was an entire life, it seemed, dedicated to going to meetings and rah-rah'ing the program. I could not understand why, after 10, 20, 30 years, people were saying if they stopped going to meetings they would drink again. It totally boggled my mind. I discovered that the steps of aa are very similar to the principles of Buddhism. And also that it was a great philosophy to live by regardless of whether or not one drinks, is a problem drinker or looking to improve their life or whatever. It is a great way to live no matter what. But I didn't need someone telling me that if I didn't do it I was destined to death, jails or institutions. I already knew I was never going to drink again. I made up my mind long before I went into a meeting.
I also laugh(to myself) when I am told I am not really an alcoholic if I can just quit by not doing the steps etc. I went through a period of withdrawal. I did have my moments of struggle in some respect. Because I drank every day for over 12 years. Near the end I was drinking beers and shots one after another almost all my waking hours I didn't have to work. So I am qualified.
I quit without AA. Granted it is only almost 9 months. But I'll wager anything it is eternity for me. My choice.
Why over think it? I'm done drinking.
I wish you luck with whatever you choose to do staying sober. Doing the steps never hurt anyone I'm pretty sure. But if feel you can do this another way, I'm positive you will succeed.
Your attitude is very similar to mine. My experience is very similar to soberlicious - not our path to this place, but our response to how we dealt with it.
I experienced something - an event - that changed my life overnight. It was directly related to alcohol. I made a decision then and there that I would never allow alcohol an opportunity to affect my life ever again. I had to go to rehab and IOP and AA as part of the 'treatment plan' as directed by my employer at the time. When treatment was done my employer essentially terminated me. *** Don't anyone jump in with legal advice about this - it is very complicated ***
I had AAers tell me if I didn't do it their way I would relapse and probably be dead in a few years. How can someone who doesn't even know my life story or circumstances make such a brash statement to me? But it wasn't just someone, it was some-many.
I found the entire process - the preaching and sanctimonious posturing - to be quite a put off. Even so, I tried to go along and give it a shot. I got a sponsor. The more time I spent among this group of people the more I was totally turned off by the entire process.
I have read the big book. I understand what the steps are about and their purpose. I was also during this time looking into alternatives because I didn't want what they had. And that was an entire life, it seemed, dedicated to going to meetings and rah-rah'ing the program. I could not understand why, after 10, 20, 30 years, people were saying if they stopped going to meetings they would drink again. It totally boggled my mind. I discovered that the steps of aa are very similar to the principles of Buddhism. And also that it was a great philosophy to live by regardless of whether or not one drinks, is a problem drinker or looking to improve their life or whatever. It is a great way to live no matter what. But I didn't need someone telling me that if I didn't do it I was destined to death, jails or institutions. I already knew I was never going to drink again. I made up my mind long before I went into a meeting.
I also laugh(to myself) when I am told I am not really an alcoholic if I can just quit by not doing the steps etc. I went through a period of withdrawal. I did have my moments of struggle in some respect. Because I drank every day for over 12 years. Near the end I was drinking beers and shots one after another almost all my waking hours I didn't have to work. So I am qualified.
I quit without AA. Granted it is only almost 9 months. But I'll wager anything it is eternity for me. My choice.
Why over think it? I'm done drinking.
I wish you luck with whatever you choose to do staying sober. Doing the steps never hurt anyone I'm pretty sure. But if feel you can do this another way, I'm positive you will succeed.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Grayslake, IL
Posts: 732
SoberC,
This is my second go at recovery. I can tell you that the difference this time is that I've realized that I want Sobriety more than drinking. I also nearly died from liver failure 4 months ago, so you bet that is also a major motivator.
I attend AA 3-4 times a week, I'm in aftercare, and I do not have a sponsor, although I study the 12 steps/big book on my own, and use them as my guidelines. I am Catholic, consider myself to have a good relationship with God/higher power, have a great support system of my family and those I've met in AA, and drive...to be healthy, to LIVE.
Here are my thoughts for you on meetings, whichever, AA, agnostic, RR, Church. If you are interested in having meetings as part of your recovery, sometimes it takes trial and error to find the right meeting(s) for you. There are some meeting/groups out there that I've found completely useless. I'm lucky enough to have 3 that I love, and bc of their proximity to each other, I see many of the same members every mtg, which helps me to bond.
I attend AA because I love listening to everybody. Sure, there are those who may tell you to think this way or that, but at the end of the day, its your recovery; take home what you need and leave the rest. My personal belief on the 12 steps is that they can be useful lessons to EVERYONE in life, not just addicts. On sponsorship, I would like one. But, I haven't found the One. Yet. Perhaps it will happen, perhaps not. Maybe someday I will be at a place to be somebody's sponsor.
There are no rules in recovery; but set your boundaries. Like I said, and its been said so many times, want Sobriety more than that drink. My Sobriety is my world.
Bunnez, 33 and learning.
This is my second go at recovery. I can tell you that the difference this time is that I've realized that I want Sobriety more than drinking. I also nearly died from liver failure 4 months ago, so you bet that is also a major motivator.
I attend AA 3-4 times a week, I'm in aftercare, and I do not have a sponsor, although I study the 12 steps/big book on my own, and use them as my guidelines. I am Catholic, consider myself to have a good relationship with God/higher power, have a great support system of my family and those I've met in AA, and drive...to be healthy, to LIVE.
Here are my thoughts for you on meetings, whichever, AA, agnostic, RR, Church. If you are interested in having meetings as part of your recovery, sometimes it takes trial and error to find the right meeting(s) for you. There are some meeting/groups out there that I've found completely useless. I'm lucky enough to have 3 that I love, and bc of their proximity to each other, I see many of the same members every mtg, which helps me to bond.
I attend AA because I love listening to everybody. Sure, there are those who may tell you to think this way or that, but at the end of the day, its your recovery; take home what you need and leave the rest. My personal belief on the 12 steps is that they can be useful lessons to EVERYONE in life, not just addicts. On sponsorship, I would like one. But, I haven't found the One. Yet. Perhaps it will happen, perhaps not. Maybe someday I will be at a place to be somebody's sponsor.
There are no rules in recovery; but set your boundaries. Like I said, and its been said so many times, want Sobriety more than that drink. My Sobriety is my world.
Bunnez, 33 and learning.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sarasota, FL
Posts: 223
I hear you!
Originally Posted by SoberComposer
Hi Rina: I have always been someone who questions everything. Because of this I need to "slowly" know what I am becoming a part of. If they allow me to attend without bothering me then maybe I could find someone, a friend, who I would want to allow into my life. The bad part is that I may actually hurt others sobriety. My path is not their path and if they should try my path, as me as an example, they may lose their sobriety. I would never want that. Simple put, it would be nice to have a place to go once a week and hear others stories, have dialog, and support. I just don't want my journey to offend them or tempt them. I will try again with hopes that I can attend and then leave in a good mood instead of leaving with people questioning my sobriety. That is not what I need now. I need support.
Thank you though! I very much appreciate your help and happy that it is working good for you! That is truly wonderful!
Thank you though! I very much appreciate your help and happy that it is working good for you
! That is truly wonderful!Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: midwest
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by LBrain
I already knew I was never going to drink again. I made up my mind long before I went into a meeting.
I also laugh(to myself) when I am told I am not really an alcoholic if I can just quit by not doing the steps etc. I went through a period of withdrawal. I did have my moments of struggle in some respect. Because I drank every day for over 12 years. Near the end I was drinking beers and shots one after another almost all my waking hours I didn't have to work. So I am qualified.
I quit without AA. Granted it is only almost 9 months. But I'll wager anything it is eternity for me. My choice.
Why over think it? I'm done drinking.
I wish you luck with whatever you choose to do staying sober. Doing the steps never hurt anyone I'm pretty sure. But if feel you can do this another way, I'm positive you will succeed.
I also laugh(to myself) when I am told I am not really an alcoholic if I can just quit by not doing the steps etc. I went through a period of withdrawal. I did have my moments of struggle in some respect. Because I drank every day for over 12 years. Near the end I was drinking beers and shots one after another almost all my waking hours I didn't have to work. So I am qualified.
I quit without AA. Granted it is only almost 9 months. But I'll wager anything it is eternity for me. My choice.
Why over think it? I'm done drinking.
I wish you luck with whatever you choose to do staying sober. Doing the steps never hurt anyone I'm pretty sure. But if feel you can do this another way, I'm positive you will succeed.
LBrain: It is interesting you mentioned that people were saying that you were not an alcoholic if you didn't need the sponsorship/steps because when I tried to explain to the two men that I talked to, after last Thursday's meeting, that I want to do it at my pace.. one of them said.. well if you don't need the program then you are not an alcoholic, and that meeting is a closed meeting. I immediately said that I was an "alcoholic" (though I don't like labels because I am ever-changing) and I can never drink if I want a happy life.. then they started on again about the importance.
I am very grateful to have other like minds concerning one's ability to learn from their painful lessons and making decisions about whether to live in horrible lonely defeated pain with my head always low or to make a stand and admit to myself that I cannot drink and then respect myself by following through. I have always had to pull myself up, by myself, without support from anyone so the idea of now suddenly relying on a "program" without being able to comfortably understand what it is = unsettling.
-------
Bunnezjp: Thank you for sharing your story. Someone once said here about a month ago that they also quit drinking when they wanted to quit more than they wanted to drink. That resonated with me!
I am going to wait until how I feel on Monday, after work, before attending the next meeting. I know there is a pretty good chance that I will be approached again and have to tell them "I am not interested at this time, but thank you" and I don't want to defend myself after that. I still want to be welcome to this closed-meeting if there is a time that I do need face-to-face visceral support. The thing is... after politely telling them once.. if they continue, I may upset them with a more blunt attempt and not feel welcomed back.
I also really like what you said about taking what I can use and leaving the rest. That was my original, hopeful, goal
.Let me do say that I try my best to not define something (religion(s)/organizations/ect) by a few members; plus I know this program has helped many. Over the last decade I have attended about 7 different meetings in my town. My first one was good but ultimately had to quit because of the same reasons. The other ones, including the first one, had no one my age. But this last one does! It is also in the Unitarian church that I go to. I would be classified as a hopeful agnostic and thankfully that is just fine for them
.-------
Regardless though... if I should happen to fall victim of uncontrollable urges then I will seek out whatever I need to be protected from my old ways of self-defeat and anguish.
Much Love Everyone!!!!!
I hope one day that I may help you as much as you have helped me =]
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Berwick
Posts: 128
I attend a group of 45 big book thumpers twice a week.
I know prevailing attitude is "steps to get really happy about sobriety "
It's not "steps or you'll drink again and die"
If you've got idiots preaching that kind of "convert or die, go to hell" just keep looking around till you find someone who seems a good fit.
They'll be there, somewhere, quietly getting on with living a happy sober life.
I know prevailing attitude is "steps to get really happy about sobriety "
It's not "steps or you'll drink again and die"
If you've got idiots preaching that kind of "convert or die, go to hell" just keep looking around till you find someone who seems a good fit.
They'll be there, somewhere, quietly getting on with living a happy sober life.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: midwest
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by whalebelow2
I attend a group of 45 big book thumpers twice a week.
I know prevailing attitude is "steps to get really happy about sobriety "
It's not "steps or you'll drink again and die"
If you've got idiots preaching that kind of "convert or die, go to hell" just keep looking around till you find someone who seems a good fit.
They'll be there, somewhere, quietly getting on with living a happy sober life.
I know prevailing attitude is "steps to get really happy about sobriety "
It's not "steps or you'll drink again and die"
If you've got idiots preaching that kind of "convert or die, go to hell" just keep looking around till you find someone who seems a good fit.
They'll be there, somewhere, quietly getting on with living a happy sober life.
I may decide to look for another group but one thing that I will not do is totally discredit what the program is about and how it is the salvation for so many people around the world.
Much Love Whalebelow2 =)
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Berwick
Posts: 128
It's about finding a sufficient substitute for alcohol.
If you think back to one of the times that booze genuinely worked. The nights when you felt plugged in to the world, drinking buddies were the best fellows in the world etc.
This is for most of us, somewhere around the 4-5 drink mark. About the stage that might be referred to as having your "beer goggles " on.
Looking at other people and seeing cool and interesting people, women look more attractive, if you look in a mirror, YOU look more attractive.
That's the "magic" of alcohol.
The point of the "fellowship " and the steps is that you can feel that good about life, about yourself and about other people...... The difference of course is that you can feel that "magic" without having to drink alcohol.
If you look up the 12 promises of AA (google them) and then put "whenever I drank alcohol" In front of each of them.
You'll hopefully understand what the "sufficient substitute" is and understand what's on offer.
If you think back to one of the times that booze genuinely worked. The nights when you felt plugged in to the world, drinking buddies were the best fellows in the world etc.
This is for most of us, somewhere around the 4-5 drink mark. About the stage that might be referred to as having your "beer goggles " on.
Looking at other people and seeing cool and interesting people, women look more attractive, if you look in a mirror, YOU look more attractive.
That's the "magic" of alcohol.
The point of the "fellowship " and the steps is that you can feel that good about life, about yourself and about other people...... The difference of course is that you can feel that "magic" without having to drink alcohol.
If you look up the 12 promises of AA (google them) and then put "whenever I drank alcohol" In front of each of them.
You'll hopefully understand what the "sufficient substitute" is and understand what's on offer.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: midwest
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by whalebelow2
If you look up the 12 promises of AA (google them) and then put "whenever I drank alcohol" In front of each of them.
Originally Posted by whalebelow2
You'll hopefully understand what the "sufficient substitute" is and understand what's on offer.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,637
I'm fortunate that I have a long term friend and me for whom I respect and love who is a 25+ year AA.
He is sort of my long distance sponsor.
He's never insisted I must work the steps. He's never told me I have to get a sponsor. He's never pushed anything on me. He shares his experience. He offers suggestions sometimes. But mostly he is just there when I need him, supporting me to keep going and staying sober today.
Nobody in my AA home group has ever pressured me in any way either. I've sometimes gotten some feedback I didn't like - but when I looked at it honestly and without defensive skepticism, I have seen it is always simply someone trying to help.
My opinion is that if you are using AA as part of your sobriety toolkit, you will be further ahead than if you are not - regardless of how you choose to do so.
He is sort of my long distance sponsor.
He's never insisted I must work the steps. He's never told me I have to get a sponsor. He's never pushed anything on me. He shares his experience. He offers suggestions sometimes. But mostly he is just there when I need him, supporting me to keep going and staying sober today.
Nobody in my AA home group has ever pressured me in any way either. I've sometimes gotten some feedback I didn't like - but when I looked at it honestly and without defensive skepticism, I have seen it is always simply someone trying to help.
My opinion is that if you are using AA as part of your sobriety toolkit, you will be further ahead than if you are not - regardless of how you choose to do so.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Originally Posted by FreeOwl
I've sometimes gotten some feedback I didn't like - but when I looked at it honestly and without defensive skepticism, I have seen it is always simply someone trying to help.
MM
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
If I should happen to fall victim of uncontrollable urges then I will seek out whatever I need to be protected from my old ways of self-defeat and anguish.
Your protection from that misery is your belief in yourself. Your life experience, 'pulling yourself up by your bootstraps' is a great predictor of your success once again. Just the sort of person you are. Sound like a bit of a badass that way to me. Onward!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Berwick
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by LBrain
attraction, not promotion
When I asked him straight out if he could take me through the steps. The truth behind that saying he liked was revealed.
He couldn't take me through cause he had never gone through himself.
I guess it was his way of telling people to shut up about the steps, whilst insinuating he had done them.
I asked because that's what I thought was the case... He had done them but didn't like to brag about it. I mistook his deflection for humility.
Funny ol world AA is sometimes
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