Recommendations for newcomer (cocaine)
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
Sean, since you asked I'm happy to toss in my two cents, but keep in mind this is just opinion (based on some knowledge) from someone who hasn't been sober for more than a few months at a time for the past 20 years, and I'm only 17 days sober at the moment.
If you're at all like me, and I perceive some similarities, we are both what I call buzzhounds. A buzzhound is a person who started using intoxicants at a young age, usually in their teens, who through early and continued use has wired his/her brain to seek altered states. We're just not very comfortable clean and sober, and we are constantly sniffing for a buzz.
If that is the case, then it is understandable that you are looking for a replacement altered state, another buzz that is hopefully less harmful physically than the one you get from cocaine. And yes, the clean and sober state is uncomfortable or even boring because you are wired to be high. There is no doubt that when I get home from a bad day at work and down a glass of wine, I immediately feel better. Hell, one glass of wine has been shown to be a stress reliever and good for the heart. But even though I could have one or two on a weeknight, I regularly binged on weekends. It just wasn't healthy. I could see it in my skin. I could feel it in my level of motivation and concentration.
New research suggests that more than four drinks in an evening is considered binging, and the recommended maximum for a week is 14 drinks (less for females). Any more than that can have eventual health consequences. You are describing a pattern that would exceed 14 drinks in three days, more than twice the recommended maximum dose.
And about pot: It makes me anxious, too, sometimes to the point of panic attacks that make me feel like I'm not getting enough air, I get dizzy, and have to lie down. It's not an option for me. When people ask if I want a toke, I tell them I'm just not good at it. They laugh and pass it on. A friend of mine tried to get sober repeatedly and used weed as his alternative. For him it worked as a sedative, much like alcohol or valium. He went to detox twice after having seizures trying to dry out. The third time he didn't make it to the phone and they found him dead in his apartment surrounded by empty vodka bottles.
This time, when I quit drinking after Christmas, I took valerian root as a substitute for valium or some other sedative or anti-anxiety med. It kept me in a mild fog, staved off the panic attacks, and helped me sleep. After a few days, though, I cut down and then quit the valerian, too, because it's another intoxicant. I have some physical issues and a bottle of oxycodone that I found myself taking even though my neck and shoulder weren't really hurting me. The painkillers helped me sleep when I had insomnia, and it's not so much that sobriety is painfully boring, but the withdrawal symptoms made life too intense. (I am not renewing that prescription.) Sometimes I think I self-medicate because I have a touch of psychosis (I have an uncle who needs meds for this). When I stop drinking (and I've done it many times), at about day ten I start getting this overwhelming perceptual alertness that quite frankly freaks me out. Every itch and pain is magnified. I was watching a commercial on TV last night, and this model's eyes seemed to be piercing my soul - and then the screen went 3-D and her disembodied face was separating from the screen and moving toward me. I had to look away. When I meditate I reach states that sometimes alarm me, and I have no point of reference to know whether or not I'm going mad. I had waking dreams as a child; my mom used to tell me about how I could relate a running narrative of the cartoons on my eyelids while they were occurring. For me, coming off alcohol is like coming on to a low dose of acid. Anyway, I digress, but maybe this is relevant; I don't know.
I've read something about GABA and receptors in the brain that can have a kind of rebound effect before leveling off. This can cause anxiety and other symptoms, and is why valium and other meds are often given to withdrawing addicts. That low dose acid feeling could be what that's about; it tends to subside somewhat with time. My take, though, is any use of any drug intended to ease the transition away from the drug of choice should be temporary. In cases of mental illness, however, continued use of certain medications are appropriate.
And there's the rub. I knew a cocaine addict who learned when he quit using coke that he was bipolar. It was a chicken or egg question: Did he find cocaine because he was bipolar, or is it possible that prolonged abuse of the drug caused a brain malady? I lost touch, so I don't know how that story has progressed, but I know he switched his drug from cocaine to a cocktail of anti-depressants, sleep aides, and an anti-psychotic.
So, this is my take on it. It would be an adventure for you to quit all intoxicants for at least a couple of months. You're a fan of the mind adventure, are you not? For me it's like emerging from the belly of the whale every time. I fill the void with good reading, which is actually much more interesting than habitual substance abuse. Right now I'm reading a novel, books on mindful recovery, Buddhism, articles online about Jungian psychology. I'm journaling and connecting here. Studying my dreams.
Life is a **** in freak show. Yes, my social life is kind of nonexistent, but that will change. Right now I'm just fascinated by how **** ed up I am, and what's going on in my head. Will you join me on my quest?
If you're at all like me, and I perceive some similarities, we are both what I call buzzhounds. A buzzhound is a person who started using intoxicants at a young age, usually in their teens, who through early and continued use has wired his/her brain to seek altered states. We're just not very comfortable clean and sober, and we are constantly sniffing for a buzz.
If that is the case, then it is understandable that you are looking for a replacement altered state, another buzz that is hopefully less harmful physically than the one you get from cocaine. And yes, the clean and sober state is uncomfortable or even boring because you are wired to be high. There is no doubt that when I get home from a bad day at work and down a glass of wine, I immediately feel better. Hell, one glass of wine has been shown to be a stress reliever and good for the heart. But even though I could have one or two on a weeknight, I regularly binged on weekends. It just wasn't healthy. I could see it in my skin. I could feel it in my level of motivation and concentration.
New research suggests that more than four drinks in an evening is considered binging, and the recommended maximum for a week is 14 drinks (less for females). Any more than that can have eventual health consequences. You are describing a pattern that would exceed 14 drinks in three days, more than twice the recommended maximum dose.
And about pot: It makes me anxious, too, sometimes to the point of panic attacks that make me feel like I'm not getting enough air, I get dizzy, and have to lie down. It's not an option for me. When people ask if I want a toke, I tell them I'm just not good at it. They laugh and pass it on. A friend of mine tried to get sober repeatedly and used weed as his alternative. For him it worked as a sedative, much like alcohol or valium. He went to detox twice after having seizures trying to dry out. The third time he didn't make it to the phone and they found him dead in his apartment surrounded by empty vodka bottles.
This time, when I quit drinking after Christmas, I took valerian root as a substitute for valium or some other sedative or anti-anxiety med. It kept me in a mild fog, staved off the panic attacks, and helped me sleep. After a few days, though, I cut down and then quit the valerian, too, because it's another intoxicant. I have some physical issues and a bottle of oxycodone that I found myself taking even though my neck and shoulder weren't really hurting me. The painkillers helped me sleep when I had insomnia, and it's not so much that sobriety is painfully boring, but the withdrawal symptoms made life too intense. (I am not renewing that prescription.) Sometimes I think I self-medicate because I have a touch of psychosis (I have an uncle who needs meds for this). When I stop drinking (and I've done it many times), at about day ten I start getting this overwhelming perceptual alertness that quite frankly freaks me out. Every itch and pain is magnified. I was watching a commercial on TV last night, and this model's eyes seemed to be piercing my soul - and then the screen went 3-D and her disembodied face was separating from the screen and moving toward me. I had to look away. When I meditate I reach states that sometimes alarm me, and I have no point of reference to know whether or not I'm going mad. I had waking dreams as a child; my mom used to tell me about how I could relate a running narrative of the cartoons on my eyelids while they were occurring. For me, coming off alcohol is like coming on to a low dose of acid. Anyway, I digress, but maybe this is relevant; I don't know.
I've read something about GABA and receptors in the brain that can have a kind of rebound effect before leveling off. This can cause anxiety and other symptoms, and is why valium and other meds are often given to withdrawing addicts. That low dose acid feeling could be what that's about; it tends to subside somewhat with time. My take, though, is any use of any drug intended to ease the transition away from the drug of choice should be temporary. In cases of mental illness, however, continued use of certain medications are appropriate.
And there's the rub. I knew a cocaine addict who learned when he quit using coke that he was bipolar. It was a chicken or egg question: Did he find cocaine because he was bipolar, or is it possible that prolonged abuse of the drug caused a brain malady? I lost touch, so I don't know how that story has progressed, but I know he switched his drug from cocaine to a cocktail of anti-depressants, sleep aides, and an anti-psychotic.
So, this is my take on it. It would be an adventure for you to quit all intoxicants for at least a couple of months. You're a fan of the mind adventure, are you not? For me it's like emerging from the belly of the whale every time. I fill the void with good reading, which is actually much more interesting than habitual substance abuse. Right now I'm reading a novel, books on mindful recovery, Buddhism, articles online about Jungian psychology. I'm journaling and connecting here. Studying my dreams.
Life is a **** in freak show. Yes, my social life is kind of nonexistent, but that will change. Right now I'm just fascinated by how **** ed up I am, and what's going on in my head. Will you join me on my quest?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Sean, I relate to your thought processes. Quite well-informed, cerebral, analytical, liking unconventional approaches and lifestyle, wanting to be self-sufficient... I was so proud of these when younger, before my addiction to alcohol really started to harm me and actually turn my best features against me in my early 30's (almost 40 now, trying to quit permanently). For years during my drinking, the greatest "fun" for me was staying in my apartment with booze, listening to music hanging on my computer emailing / chatting with people, which I often perceived as the most brilliant, "out-of-the-box", deep conversations one could have... Some of these people were secret affairs, meaning their side as I have never been married. Then the mornings hit, and I saw all that "brilliance" in a completely different light, scared of myself even and full of regrets. Still, I would want to repeat this over and over. For a few years these nights were only occasional, then every night, then in more recent years I would do this also during the days and not show up at work... still doing fairly well professionally relative to average, but really not well compared with what I know I can do based on my past. I kept fooling myself for years that I can get away with all this - just to be able to do what I seemed to love more than anything in life: *escape reality*. I also tended to think that "normal" outside reality was dull and boring compared with my mental world, especially when altered by alcohol, or psychedelic drugs that I experimented with for a couple years (luckily stopped that one).
You know what I think about all this now? I'm definitely an over-thinker, too, and this is part of the reason why I tend to find the outside world dull, subjectively, because it's so easy to "make it more exciting" with endless analysis and imagination. And drugs and alcohol. Seemingly less scary too, since you don't even get out and put yourself into it in a physical way. Alcohol is relaxing, while I am on it. Sobering up and the hangovers are a nightmare. And looking at the big picture a bit more objectively: it's a sad, desperate, painful isolation and loneliness. I think we dislike boredom and mental emptiness, are looking for intensity, but in my opinion it's looking in the wrong places not only because addiction is not good. I think the intensity is better be found in the real world, in constructive experiences, in productivity, in contribution to something outside of ourselves. I am unsure why I tend to find the mental world more appealing... probably just a hyperactive brain that wants even more stimulation.
You know what made me decide that finally I truly want to have a chance with sobriety and a different lifestyle? Looking through the recent years, how my drinking and isolation affected my career (for a long time I thought it did not, but I think I was wrong even then). How addiction harmed my cognitive abilities - this is what I probably find most annoying myself (guess because I have not had real serious physical problems yet, so that's lucky and another reason to quit now, in time).
You recognized correctly that you will need help to break the cycle, when you want to break it. Probably simply just this realization bothers you, the sense of loss of independence. Like many others on this site, I also think it's true. Unfortunately one of the components of the definition of addiction is that our inhibitory control becomes weakened because drugs tap into the reward cycle and shift the balance in a physiological way, long term. Basically all the addictive drugs (including tobacco) affect this same mechanism in the brain.
I also think it might be most efficient for you to try to quit with the help of some sort of medical program. Like you fear, probably after giving up coke there will be a period of low and lack of motivation - doctors and therapy can help with that even.
Just some things to ponder... I also find the support and honest interaction on this site amazing. Wish you all the best!
You know what I think about all this now? I'm definitely an over-thinker, too, and this is part of the reason why I tend to find the outside world dull, subjectively, because it's so easy to "make it more exciting" with endless analysis and imagination. And drugs and alcohol. Seemingly less scary too, since you don't even get out and put yourself into it in a physical way. Alcohol is relaxing, while I am on it. Sobering up and the hangovers are a nightmare. And looking at the big picture a bit more objectively: it's a sad, desperate, painful isolation and loneliness. I think we dislike boredom and mental emptiness, are looking for intensity, but in my opinion it's looking in the wrong places not only because addiction is not good. I think the intensity is better be found in the real world, in constructive experiences, in productivity, in contribution to something outside of ourselves. I am unsure why I tend to find the mental world more appealing... probably just a hyperactive brain that wants even more stimulation.
You know what made me decide that finally I truly want to have a chance with sobriety and a different lifestyle? Looking through the recent years, how my drinking and isolation affected my career (for a long time I thought it did not, but I think I was wrong even then). How addiction harmed my cognitive abilities - this is what I probably find most annoying myself (guess because I have not had real serious physical problems yet, so that's lucky and another reason to quit now, in time).
You recognized correctly that you will need help to break the cycle, when you want to break it. Probably simply just this realization bothers you, the sense of loss of independence. Like many others on this site, I also think it's true. Unfortunately one of the components of the definition of addiction is that our inhibitory control becomes weakened because drugs tap into the reward cycle and shift the balance in a physiological way, long term. Basically all the addictive drugs (including tobacco) affect this same mechanism in the brain.
I also think it might be most efficient for you to try to quit with the help of some sort of medical program. Like you fear, probably after giving up coke there will be a period of low and lack of motivation - doctors and therapy can help with that even.
Just some things to ponder... I also find the support and honest interaction on this site amazing. Wish you all the best!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
zerothehero - wow, you sound like a clone of me in your last post here! Including your reaction to pot (I also dislike it for the same reason) and the perceptional effects of a few days without alcohol. I usually start to feel that way somewhat even on Day 2 and enjoy this a lot, eg. I play around with my perception simply walking around in my city and studying the environment: everything seems to be intensified and extremely detailed. I also have psychotic disorders running in one lineage of my family, and am lucky enough because I'm free of serious forms of it, but I do think I have some streaks... Actually very high doses of alcohol also tend to put me in a psychotic-like state sometimes, before I would pass out from it.
Yes I agree that it's more than worth to experience drug-free altered states of consciousness. I'm a big fan of lucid dreaming and like you also interested in meditation and buddhist thought. For the latter, I found an amazing teacher several years ago, Alan Wallace - check him out of you don't know yet, he also wrote a few interesting books. I did a week-long meditation retreat with him once, it was seriously one of my most enjoyable experiences in recent years especially because I managed to stay sober for it.
OK I don't want to hijack Sean's thread, but Sean I also agree with zero's suggestions, I think you might enjoy experiencing your mind and perception completely drug-free for a while at least, if for nothing else, the novelty and difference. I also agree that for people like us who like and need mental stimulation so much, it's essential to fill the void with healthy alternatives otherwise we might end up experimenting with other drugs or harmful things. I find this absolutely necessary for me, because if I don't make the effort to entertain my mind, then like you, I also perceive conventional external reality dull, the nice and more traditional things that seem to work for many others (exercise, socializing, family, etc) just don't seem to cut it for me. I believe there are many healthy and constructive ways to be unconventional!
Yes I agree that it's more than worth to experience drug-free altered states of consciousness. I'm a big fan of lucid dreaming and like you also interested in meditation and buddhist thought. For the latter, I found an amazing teacher several years ago, Alan Wallace - check him out of you don't know yet, he also wrote a few interesting books. I did a week-long meditation retreat with him once, it was seriously one of my most enjoyable experiences in recent years especially because I managed to stay sober for it.
OK I don't want to hijack Sean's thread, but Sean I also agree with zero's suggestions, I think you might enjoy experiencing your mind and perception completely drug-free for a while at least, if for nothing else, the novelty and difference. I also agree that for people like us who like and need mental stimulation so much, it's essential to fill the void with healthy alternatives otherwise we might end up experimenting with other drugs or harmful things. I find this absolutely necessary for me, because if I don't make the effort to entertain my mind, then like you, I also perceive conventional external reality dull, the nice and more traditional things that seem to work for many others (exercise, socializing, family, etc) just don't seem to cut it for me. I believe there are many healthy and constructive ways to be unconventional!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 14
I was addicted to coke and amphetamines for several years. It started when I was working full time and going to school at nights. I went to my doctor and manipulated her into believing I had ADHD. I would take Adderall to keep me awake for work and school on the weekdays. Friday night pregame started with Adderall and a few beers at home, then score anything from a gram to an eight ball depending who I was hanging out with for the evening. Drinks and lines of coke till the sun came up. Saturday night became a mirror image of Friday night. This continued on for over a year, then the panic attacks started. Back to the doctor I went, when I thought I was having a heart attack. Full cardiac work up was negative. I was diagnosed with "anxiety", so naturally I was prescribed a benzo. I continued this behavior for almost one more year. Only now I was mixing the Adderall, alcohol, coke and benzo. I am amazed I am alive to tell this story. What made me stop were the countless sinus and ear infections, the panic attacks became worse, the highs became less and lows became lower. I cannot give advice. I can only share my horrible experience. The addiction for amphetamines and coke still lingers in my mind, but I cannot go back to it. I work in the health field and experience first hand the deaths related to drug and alcohol abuse. Currently I'm battling my problem with binge drinking. 2 days sober and moving forward.
I wish you all the best Sean1980.
I wish you all the best Sean1980.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 33
ZeroTheHero -
Thanks again for the feedback. You seem pretty articulate and insightful to have psychosis... but, then again, we ALL have that. Everyone's brain is biologically different enough to make a "standard model" an impossibility...
I enjoyed (and internalized) your term "Buzzhound." Couldn't agree more. Simple labeling of a phenomenon like this may seem trivial at first, but it helps to organize my thought and objective understanding of what I've went through and what I am; and provides yet another building block of the foundation on which I am building my escape route from all of this.
I've concluded (might have said this already) my drug use is a natural extension of my obsessive behavior. Even before drugs, I collected and "got high" on Garbage Pail Kids trading cards, memorized the names and numbers of each card, and felt an opiate-rivaling euphoria when I would stumble upon a BRAND NEW SERIES at the local gas station. Then, as quickly as it came, I would immediately abandon it in favor of a new obsession like the American Civil War... reading every book, watching every movie, and so on. I have always been "addicted" to SOMETHING.
I think the difference with drugs (versus objects or topics) is that they carried the additional characteristic (a secondary or "supplemental" addiction, if you will) of being the only method by which we have actual control over our mental faculties. For the first time, I could effectively (and consistently) manage my state of mind (yeah, I know that the drugs eventually wrestle that capability away and begin to control YOU... hence my reason for diving into this online community). And, for me, it's ALWAYS been calculated... formulaic - six beers a night, weed after. Each acid trip, I would buy three packs of cigarettes and label them 1-3, smoking all 60 before the 12 hour trip reached its end. With coke, it's two lines to begin. Crack a beer. Light a cigarette (exactly one per beer), usually about 2 swigs in and finish with two swigs to go... That way when I cracked the next beer I would have established the perfect amount of time to make the next cigarette "taste good" again. Now, take this behavior and couple it with a drug that stimulates the part of the brain involved in clinical OCD, and you've got a very nightmarish cocktail.
As soon as I LOSE the ability to "control" the drug (even if just perceptually), THAT is when I stop... it's the only true kill switch for me. You brought up pot and it's a great example because I get the EXACT same effects from it that you described (lightheaded, dizzy, anxiety; a panic attack, more or less) - I stopped craving the buzz when THAT happened. In fact, when I was 17, I started getting "dangerously close to addiction" with cocaine. But my routine was DIFFERENT then - .25g per experience, cut into six lines, and it went like this: 3 lines, cigarette, next line, cigarette, repeat until gone. After the final line, I would IMMEDIATELY begin drinking my prescribed 4 cans of Natty Ice (same cheap crappy beer I drink today, 17 years later) to avoid the "crash" I'd immediately grown to detest... I'd never before experienced such a dramatic comedown with drugs where you literally feel top of the world and then - POOF, it's gone. That's what caused a crash for me - not manufactured depression, but the pain experienced from the complete and total disappearance of the best feeling in the world. Getting back to the point, the coke use quickly escalated (and is FAR more difficult to support financially at age 17 than 34). But that crash became more painful to endure, finally reaching the point where I began shaking from anxiety after the first line from anticipation of a crash that wasn't even due to transpire for 30-40 minutes. It was unbearable. I lost control in a way that my "addicted brain" understood (in addition to my "logic brain"). It was my kill switch. I stopped using it outright. Over the next 15 years, I would tell people I was one of the "lucky ones" who successfully dodged cocaine's very real addictive potential.
15 years later, relationships fall apart, growing up is imminent. And there's a magic pill to help train me how to handle the crash - my girlfriend's Xanax. I'm not one of the "lucky ones" all the sudden.
So this all leads back to the Buzzhound predicament. I understood that concept, though never assigned it a name to help me tackle it head-on. And it scares me... I think about my Dad. He likes to drink, and he's the same gregarious drinker that I am. But he rarely drinks during the week, and even the weekends aren't some kind of alcohol guarantee that he spends the week looking forward to. He just doesn't. There are plenty of nights I don't drink, but it's because I've made a conscious decision NOT to drink. It's not like I have unbearable craving or immediately dissolve into DTs, but I am continually aware that I'm not drinking because I made that decision. My Dad, on the other hand, just doesn't think about it at ALL. It doesn't suddenly dawn on him at any point "oh, wait - I didn't DRINK tonight." It's just natural for him. That's what I want. And my (current) inability to do so fits tidily into the Buzzhound realm.
Some of your feedback seems at odds with each other. It's terrifying after 10 days of abstinence on the one hand; but a "mind adventure" on the other. That's a little unsettling. But your offer is clearly genuine... compassionate. I do want to join you, but I can't until I know it's not some kind of empty promise I'm eager to jump at due to the warmth and optimism I feel merely by gaining new, caring friends in a recovery group. So I'll say this: I'm going to San Francisco on a business trip on 1/16. I intentionally extended my stay to 1/28 to vacation with a friend who doesn't do coke & wouldn't even know how to get it. It will be my "retreat" of sorts. This friend DOES drink and smoke pot. And I will probably indulge, though devoid of coke. When this "retreat" is over, I will be in a better place to honestly make that commitment (or not make it).
Thanks again, ZeroTheHero. You definitely give me hope, to say nothing of the sound and insightful advice.
Sean
Thanks again for the feedback. You seem pretty articulate and insightful to have psychosis... but, then again, we ALL have that. Everyone's brain is biologically different enough to make a "standard model" an impossibility...
I enjoyed (and internalized) your term "Buzzhound." Couldn't agree more. Simple labeling of a phenomenon like this may seem trivial at first, but it helps to organize my thought and objective understanding of what I've went through and what I am; and provides yet another building block of the foundation on which I am building my escape route from all of this.
I've concluded (might have said this already) my drug use is a natural extension of my obsessive behavior. Even before drugs, I collected and "got high" on Garbage Pail Kids trading cards, memorized the names and numbers of each card, and felt an opiate-rivaling euphoria when I would stumble upon a BRAND NEW SERIES at the local gas station. Then, as quickly as it came, I would immediately abandon it in favor of a new obsession like the American Civil War... reading every book, watching every movie, and so on. I have always been "addicted" to SOMETHING.
I think the difference with drugs (versus objects or topics) is that they carried the additional characteristic (a secondary or "supplemental" addiction, if you will) of being the only method by which we have actual control over our mental faculties. For the first time, I could effectively (and consistently) manage my state of mind (yeah, I know that the drugs eventually wrestle that capability away and begin to control YOU... hence my reason for diving into this online community). And, for me, it's ALWAYS been calculated... formulaic - six beers a night, weed after. Each acid trip, I would buy three packs of cigarettes and label them 1-3, smoking all 60 before the 12 hour trip reached its end. With coke, it's two lines to begin. Crack a beer. Light a cigarette (exactly one per beer), usually about 2 swigs in and finish with two swigs to go... That way when I cracked the next beer I would have established the perfect amount of time to make the next cigarette "taste good" again. Now, take this behavior and couple it with a drug that stimulates the part of the brain involved in clinical OCD, and you've got a very nightmarish cocktail.
As soon as I LOSE the ability to "control" the drug (even if just perceptually), THAT is when I stop... it's the only true kill switch for me. You brought up pot and it's a great example because I get the EXACT same effects from it that you described (lightheaded, dizzy, anxiety; a panic attack, more or less) - I stopped craving the buzz when THAT happened. In fact, when I was 17, I started getting "dangerously close to addiction" with cocaine. But my routine was DIFFERENT then - .25g per experience, cut into six lines, and it went like this: 3 lines, cigarette, next line, cigarette, repeat until gone. After the final line, I would IMMEDIATELY begin drinking my prescribed 4 cans of Natty Ice (same cheap crappy beer I drink today, 17 years later) to avoid the "crash" I'd immediately grown to detest... I'd never before experienced such a dramatic comedown with drugs where you literally feel top of the world and then - POOF, it's gone. That's what caused a crash for me - not manufactured depression, but the pain experienced from the complete and total disappearance of the best feeling in the world. Getting back to the point, the coke use quickly escalated (and is FAR more difficult to support financially at age 17 than 34). But that crash became more painful to endure, finally reaching the point where I began shaking from anxiety after the first line from anticipation of a crash that wasn't even due to transpire for 30-40 minutes. It was unbearable. I lost control in a way that my "addicted brain" understood (in addition to my "logic brain"). It was my kill switch. I stopped using it outright. Over the next 15 years, I would tell people I was one of the "lucky ones" who successfully dodged cocaine's very real addictive potential.
15 years later, relationships fall apart, growing up is imminent. And there's a magic pill to help train me how to handle the crash - my girlfriend's Xanax. I'm not one of the "lucky ones" all the sudden.
So this all leads back to the Buzzhound predicament. I understood that concept, though never assigned it a name to help me tackle it head-on. And it scares me... I think about my Dad. He likes to drink, and he's the same gregarious drinker that I am. But he rarely drinks during the week, and even the weekends aren't some kind of alcohol guarantee that he spends the week looking forward to. He just doesn't. There are plenty of nights I don't drink, but it's because I've made a conscious decision NOT to drink. It's not like I have unbearable craving or immediately dissolve into DTs, but I am continually aware that I'm not drinking because I made that decision. My Dad, on the other hand, just doesn't think about it at ALL. It doesn't suddenly dawn on him at any point "oh, wait - I didn't DRINK tonight." It's just natural for him. That's what I want. And my (current) inability to do so fits tidily into the Buzzhound realm.
Some of your feedback seems at odds with each other. It's terrifying after 10 days of abstinence on the one hand; but a "mind adventure" on the other. That's a little unsettling. But your offer is clearly genuine... compassionate. I do want to join you, but I can't until I know it's not some kind of empty promise I'm eager to jump at due to the warmth and optimism I feel merely by gaining new, caring friends in a recovery group. So I'll say this: I'm going to San Francisco on a business trip on 1/16. I intentionally extended my stay to 1/28 to vacation with a friend who doesn't do coke & wouldn't even know how to get it. It will be my "retreat" of sorts. This friend DOES drink and smoke pot. And I will probably indulge, though devoid of coke. When this "retreat" is over, I will be in a better place to honestly make that commitment (or not make it).
Thanks again, ZeroTheHero. You definitely give me hope, to say nothing of the sound and insightful advice.
Sean
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 33
Thanks, Haennie, for your thoughts and guidance.
I know exactly what you're saying about that whole pain:pleasure ratio (e.g. is the hangover worth the buzz). And I'm still gripped by the state of mind that thinks I can give my brain joint custody. Now my brain only has weekend custody and I never saw it coming... Must have missed the court date entirely. It won't be long before it loses it altogether... and I'm sure it will be just as quiet and innocuous, only realizing long after the fact due to the chemical swirl disintegrating neuronal infrastructure one drunken snort at a time.
I reluctantly admit I'm leaning toward your same conclusion on the outside medical intervention. I. Investigating those options with my therapist and intend to act on the results by January if I find I am too weak of will. My sincere hope is that I haven't come up with a gazillion excuses to avoid it by then. But that's why I started going to a therapist, reaching out to a support network, and keeping my family closely appraised of the situation - there are a lot more people I risk disappointing, now, in addition to myself. Maybe it's not sound logic, but I'm trying to employ as many "seek and destroy" tactics as possible against this self-imposed affliction. It will require savvy guerrilla warfare - it's a very knowledgable enemy that always seems one step ahead. I'm trying to cut him off at the pass.
And don't think you're hijacking the thread - that's what this is all about from my point of view, at least. Your agreement and build on Zero's feedback only validates and strengthen's the overall message. I can honestly say I've been withdrawing (albeit slightly, but still) since joining this community, and it really is all because of folks like you. Thanks again, really.
Sean
I know exactly what you're saying about that whole pain:pleasure ratio (e.g. is the hangover worth the buzz). And I'm still gripped by the state of mind that thinks I can give my brain joint custody. Now my brain only has weekend custody and I never saw it coming... Must have missed the court date entirely. It won't be long before it loses it altogether... and I'm sure it will be just as quiet and innocuous, only realizing long after the fact due to the chemical swirl disintegrating neuronal infrastructure one drunken snort at a time.
I reluctantly admit I'm leaning toward your same conclusion on the outside medical intervention. I. Investigating those options with my therapist and intend to act on the results by January if I find I am too weak of will. My sincere hope is that I haven't come up with a gazillion excuses to avoid it by then. But that's why I started going to a therapist, reaching out to a support network, and keeping my family closely appraised of the situation - there are a lot more people I risk disappointing, now, in addition to myself. Maybe it's not sound logic, but I'm trying to employ as many "seek and destroy" tactics as possible against this self-imposed affliction. It will require savvy guerrilla warfare - it's a very knowledgable enemy that always seems one step ahead. I'm trying to cut him off at the pass.
And don't think you're hijacking the thread - that's what this is all about from my point of view, at least. Your agreement and build on Zero's feedback only validates and strengthen's the overall message. I can honestly say I've been withdrawing (albeit slightly, but still) since joining this community, and it really is all because of folks like you. Thanks again, really.
Sean
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 33
Hi Summer5 - thanks so much for sharing.
The two major themes you mention are pretty alarming because they definitely apply to me (but, until you shared that, I think I deluded myself into believing they had a different cause).
1) I've had anxiety since the psychedelic days (maybe latent and activated by LSD/pot, not sure). It wasn't until I started doing coke that I actually went in for a Xanax prescription. Even so, all of my panic attacks started with a healthy dose of "pre-panic attack anxiety." I mainly would work myself into a frenzy, and most did not develop into true panic attacks. Last week, for the first time (at least as I recall), I had a full blown panic attack immediately take hold without any anxiety-based precursors. Of course, I'd been doing coke all night, so I was SURE I was dying. Too dizzy to stand, scattered thoughts, incomparably rapid heart palpitation... I barely had the composure to take my one last full Xanax (I usually only take 1/2), and that made me get nauseous, and then I added to the panic thinking that I would vomit the pill before it had a chance to absorb into my stomach and it was my last one. I flopped down on my bed atop the covers and breathed heavy until it (thankfully) passed. I thanked my lucky stars I was still alive... and could do more coke the very next day. I can't believe how stupid that looks in writing and how it still doesn't really matter...
2) I had my first ear infection EVER a few months ago. I woke up in intense pain and thought maybe it was a toothache, even. At the urgent care, the PA said my eardrum had so much pus buildup that it was pushing my eardrum outward. He gave me a Rx for an antibiotic and, now keep in mind I was honest with the pre-screen the nurse administered telling her I do coke and smoke pot, another Rx for 20 Vicodin. I couldn't have been happier despite the intense pain and also amazed they would prescribe an addictive drug to an addict. Much of the physical destruction (vs the socio-economic impact) is starting to catch up with me... but so far into the addiction that I ignore it. I don't even want to know what my nose looks like on the inside. Each day when I blow my nose, I can almost certainly expect blood...anywhere from light streaks to black clotty chunks. Every morning when I wake up, the back of my nasal mucosa is so dry that I envision it must be stretched taught like a drumhead. I can tell it's trying to repair itself when the sneezing begins. I douse it with pressurized saline spray, vitamin E swabs, neti pot, etc. I usually don't want to look at the tissue after I blow into it, but I know I should. Headaches are growing worse in the mornings, too, so who knows if it's finding it's way to brave new sinus frontiers...
It's good and bad to read your post... Good because I hope it will help scare me straight. Bad because it probably means I HAVE done a fair amount of damage... The similarities are too strong to deny & blame in something else, now.
Thanks again, Summer5. This helps.
Sean
The two major themes you mention are pretty alarming because they definitely apply to me (but, until you shared that, I think I deluded myself into believing they had a different cause).
1) I've had anxiety since the psychedelic days (maybe latent and activated by LSD/pot, not sure). It wasn't until I started doing coke that I actually went in for a Xanax prescription. Even so, all of my panic attacks started with a healthy dose of "pre-panic attack anxiety." I mainly would work myself into a frenzy, and most did not develop into true panic attacks. Last week, for the first time (at least as I recall), I had a full blown panic attack immediately take hold without any anxiety-based precursors. Of course, I'd been doing coke all night, so I was SURE I was dying. Too dizzy to stand, scattered thoughts, incomparably rapid heart palpitation... I barely had the composure to take my one last full Xanax (I usually only take 1/2), and that made me get nauseous, and then I added to the panic thinking that I would vomit the pill before it had a chance to absorb into my stomach and it was my last one. I flopped down on my bed atop the covers and breathed heavy until it (thankfully) passed. I thanked my lucky stars I was still alive... and could do more coke the very next day. I can't believe how stupid that looks in writing and how it still doesn't really matter...
2) I had my first ear infection EVER a few months ago. I woke up in intense pain and thought maybe it was a toothache, even. At the urgent care, the PA said my eardrum had so much pus buildup that it was pushing my eardrum outward. He gave me a Rx for an antibiotic and, now keep in mind I was honest with the pre-screen the nurse administered telling her I do coke and smoke pot, another Rx for 20 Vicodin. I couldn't have been happier despite the intense pain and also amazed they would prescribe an addictive drug to an addict. Much of the physical destruction (vs the socio-economic impact) is starting to catch up with me... but so far into the addiction that I ignore it. I don't even want to know what my nose looks like on the inside. Each day when I blow my nose, I can almost certainly expect blood...anywhere from light streaks to black clotty chunks. Every morning when I wake up, the back of my nasal mucosa is so dry that I envision it must be stretched taught like a drumhead. I can tell it's trying to repair itself when the sneezing begins. I douse it with pressurized saline spray, vitamin E swabs, neti pot, etc. I usually don't want to look at the tissue after I blow into it, but I know I should. Headaches are growing worse in the mornings, too, so who knows if it's finding it's way to brave new sinus frontiers...
It's good and bad to read your post... Good because I hope it will help scare me straight. Bad because it probably means I HAVE done a fair amount of damage... The similarities are too strong to deny & blame in something else, now.
Thanks again, Summer5. This helps.
Sean
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
Without fear there is no adventure. Fear is the mechanism that triggers the fight or flight response. Fear breathes life into action. No one is fearless, but some befriend their fear. They choose neither fight nor flight. Fear won't kill you, but fighting it could leave you bruised and bleeding. Fear won't kill you, but running from it could lead you off a cliff.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Sean, I don't have a ton of time to write a very detailed response, but wanted to react to a couple things based on your posts here today.
1.Obsessive tendencies.
You wrote:
"I've concluded (might have said this already) my drug use is a natural extension of my obsessive behavior. Even before drugs, I collected and "got high" on Garbage Pail Kids trading cards, memorized the names and numbers of each card, and felt an opiate-rivaling euphoria when I would stumble upon a BRAND NEW SERIES at the local gas station. Then, as quickly as it came, I would immediately abandon it in favor of a new obsession like the American Civil War... reading every book, watching every movie, and so on. I have always been "addicted" to SOMETHING."
I don't know how I could describe the extent of how much I relate to this from my own life... What I do know is that there is a significant amount of scientific evidence showing associations between the obsessive personality trait and addiction vulnerability. It also often runs in families, meaning it's inheritable > a general obsessive tendency might often underlie the individual's pattern to also get "obsessed" with the effects of certain drugs, which can lead to addiction. And then these feelings we can have, that we like our drug(s) of choice so much, we don't want to seriously consider giving up until the harmful effects are absolutely proven (like you expressed, the pain:pleasure ratio is truly off of what we ourselves think are acceptable). Until we are ready "intellectually".
What I'm suggesting to you in this context: don't ever try to think that you could "cure" yourself from the general obsessiveness. I've spent many years trying to achieve this for myself, knowing this same pattern in me while at the same time rationally thinking very high of moderation and of the people who can use moderation.
NO. I personally can't, and have accepted that for me a while ago. Looking back on my life since my early childhood, like you, I've always been obsessed about something. Luckily for me I did not grow up in an environment that would have allowed me to start experimenting with drugs too early (this is a difference between you&Zero vs myself as it seems). But I had many "healthier" obsessions, trading one for another even as a kid / teen. The most unhealthy one for me during my teens / early twenties ended up several years of really debilitating eating disorders - these are generally more common in females and I am a woman. These are also obsessive disorders: primarily with weight and physical appearance + commercialized ideals of society, but also with food (as a substitute for social life, for example). I battled these and turned my life around in terms of these eating disorders by ~age 27, but they had been definitely the hardest challenges of my youth. Then came alcohol... And many many other somewhat healthier obsessions, and really good ones, all over in between.
So in conclusion, what I would like to suggest to you is to develop a plan taking into account your obsessive tendencies. You may always need something to fill that void and provide stimulation, challenge, etc. Make a plan and goals involving some healthy ideas or potential interests that you would like to explore in the future, and try to attempt to replace your coke love with these, given you are determined.
2. The medical help issue. It's great to hear that you have already seeked help (from a therapist) and have a plan for the potential implementation of this. I do encourage that you don't lose motivation or make excuses by the end of your self-defined period. I did, many times...
Finally, yet another similarity that I perceive is the strategy. You seem to prefer trying to collect information, data, whatever before you make a definitive decision to change / try something new. And you try to understand the underlying causes and mechanisms instead of just jumping into trying this or that. I'm totally this way myself. So one thing that has helped me tremendously has been understanding my motivations, my fears etc via studying the psychological theories of personality types. I really recommend that to you.
This is it for now, I hope you keep checking in here
1.Obsessive tendencies.
You wrote:
"I've concluded (might have said this already) my drug use is a natural extension of my obsessive behavior. Even before drugs, I collected and "got high" on Garbage Pail Kids trading cards, memorized the names and numbers of each card, and felt an opiate-rivaling euphoria when I would stumble upon a BRAND NEW SERIES at the local gas station. Then, as quickly as it came, I would immediately abandon it in favor of a new obsession like the American Civil War... reading every book, watching every movie, and so on. I have always been "addicted" to SOMETHING."
I don't know how I could describe the extent of how much I relate to this from my own life... What I do know is that there is a significant amount of scientific evidence showing associations between the obsessive personality trait and addiction vulnerability. It also often runs in families, meaning it's inheritable > a general obsessive tendency might often underlie the individual's pattern to also get "obsessed" with the effects of certain drugs, which can lead to addiction. And then these feelings we can have, that we like our drug(s) of choice so much, we don't want to seriously consider giving up until the harmful effects are absolutely proven (like you expressed, the pain:pleasure ratio is truly off of what we ourselves think are acceptable). Until we are ready "intellectually".
What I'm suggesting to you in this context: don't ever try to think that you could "cure" yourself from the general obsessiveness. I've spent many years trying to achieve this for myself, knowing this same pattern in me while at the same time rationally thinking very high of moderation and of the people who can use moderation.
NO. I personally can't, and have accepted that for me a while ago. Looking back on my life since my early childhood, like you, I've always been obsessed about something. Luckily for me I did not grow up in an environment that would have allowed me to start experimenting with drugs too early (this is a difference between you&Zero vs myself as it seems). But I had many "healthier" obsessions, trading one for another even as a kid / teen. The most unhealthy one for me during my teens / early twenties ended up several years of really debilitating eating disorders - these are generally more common in females and I am a woman. These are also obsessive disorders: primarily with weight and physical appearance + commercialized ideals of society, but also with food (as a substitute for social life, for example). I battled these and turned my life around in terms of these eating disorders by ~age 27, but they had been definitely the hardest challenges of my youth. Then came alcohol... And many many other somewhat healthier obsessions, and really good ones, all over in between.
So in conclusion, what I would like to suggest to you is to develop a plan taking into account your obsessive tendencies. You may always need something to fill that void and provide stimulation, challenge, etc. Make a plan and goals involving some healthy ideas or potential interests that you would like to explore in the future, and try to attempt to replace your coke love with these, given you are determined.
2. The medical help issue. It's great to hear that you have already seeked help (from a therapist) and have a plan for the potential implementation of this. I do encourage that you don't lose motivation or make excuses by the end of your self-defined period. I did, many times...
Finally, yet another similarity that I perceive is the strategy. You seem to prefer trying to collect information, data, whatever before you make a definitive decision to change / try something new. And you try to understand the underlying causes and mechanisms instead of just jumping into trying this or that. I'm totally this way myself. So one thing that has helped me tremendously has been understanding my motivations, my fears etc via studying the psychological theories of personality types. I really recommend that to you.
This is it for now, I hope you keep checking in here
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Melbourne Beach, FL
Posts: 253
Sean, you sound like a very educated, logical, analytical, intelligent man. My question, and it may seem completely irrelevant, but have you ever been sober and just sat still? Alone with yourself and your feelings? No distractions, just spent time with yourself… I know all too well the desire for "feeling GOOD", but the artificial high is temporary and only giving you an escape route from yourself beyond your basic consciousness. Sometimes when you stop running, the answers will catch up with you.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Melbourne Beach, FL
Posts: 253
Haennie & Hero, I am a big fan of Tolle. The Power of Now is an amazing book. Luckily I read Pema Chodron - When Things Fall Apart first, to be able to embrace the concepts. I do need to reread Tolle however. Easy to miss things the first time around…
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
Originally Posted by haennie 
And the unwise?
Your signature today sounds like Steppenwolf from Herman Hesse.
"For Madmen only"
Your signature today sounds like Steppenwolf from Herman Hesse.
"For Madmen only"
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