Originally Posted by hcatoni723

Keep going to meetings desperado. It took awhile for me to feel a sense of connectedness but once you find someone you can relate to and get real honest with yourself life does get easier. I was so full of paranoia and self loathing I thought that there was nothing left to do but kill myself which I tried and failed thank God. Now that I'm clean I no longer fear much of anything and the self hatred is resolving. You have to practice positive affirmations every day which is difficult in the beginning and gets easier as time goes on and you heal in all areas. Take care and hang in there.

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Originally Posted by Nattythreads

Here's just a personal thing, DB. Doing the steps didn't fix me. I didnt expect it too. What it did do was increase my comfort level within AA/NA if that makes sense. I had a sponsor who took me through them in two weeks and just said lets get this done. Before that I questioned everything and anything about the program. But in hindsight and as you note there, I was the problem and not the program.

Having been through the steps, I almost feel a level of belonging and acceptance I didn't allow myself before. Now I happily ignore anyone who tells me Im not working it properly. I go to meetings when I choose and I take out of it what I want. By lessening the be-all and end-all approach to it, It has now become just another tool available to me in my quest to stay clean and sober.

Best of luck to you

NT

Originally Posted by DoubleBarrel

If other people try to **** on your recovery, by suggesting that unless you follow their version of the program, (lest you fall into despair, begin drinking again, or become a "dry drunk", whatever that means) and you feel secure in your sobriety, IGNORE THEM.

They are just the same flawed drunks as everyone else, and they have no magic powers.

Do what works, leave the rest. If doing the steps stresses you out, and you end up drinking over it, thats not helpful, is it.

Ive been sober almost a year, and have gone to a couple meetings.

I talk to friends who are "in recovery" weekly, but I consider myself recovered.

I do some steps, because I think they make me a better person, but I have no sponsor.

I guess what I'm saying is, there are some people that I think are dangerous to let inside your head with a bunch of negativity.

If what you are doing is working for you, keep doing that. And only you really know honestly if you are deceiving yourself, and listening to that voice that wants you to drink, or if you are on the right path.

Originally Posted by tomsteve

"Could I just stick to the latter strategy? "

yer free to do whatever ya want.

if you don't want to get rid of all the baggage of yer past, that's yer choice. if ya don't want to find out what makes ya tick and the exact nature of yer wrongs, and change, that's yer choice.

sounds pretty insane to me, but its yer choice.

Originally Posted by tomsteve

some of us have tried to hold onto our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.

readin more of yer posts, it reads like ya got nil results by just not drinking.

Originally Posted by Mark75

So...um, looks like you don't need anyone to convince you otherwise.



AA is not the only way, but we both know where the priority should be.

Originally Posted by legna

Often we talk about the success rate of early AA's in hallowed whispers: 50%, 75%, even 92%, and there is always the oft quoted, "Rarely have we seen a person fail..."

I have been a member of AA since 1978 and it has been my belief, based on observation, that the reason for the early success and the discrepancy with todays rates of success, have been rooted in the changing demographics of AA. In the early days of AA, the only people who walked through the door were low bottom alcoholics of the hopeless variety. They walked in desperate and talked to another alcoholic that could identify with them completely.

AA worked, in my opinion, because they did one thing and they did it very well - help hopeless alcoholics. In fact, AA's Singleness of Purpose is a principle derived from the Fifth Tradition and refuses membership to non-alcoholic addicts specifically with the intent to avoid trying to become all things to all people and ruining, or watering down, the program as a result. In my opinion, AA has failed in their singleness of purpose.

Today, the word 'alcoholic' has come to encompass alcoholics, problem drinkers, potential problem drinkers and probably people who are genetically predisposed to becoming an alcoholic soon after their first drink that they haven't taken yet. (<--meant as humor rather than biting sarcasm) So here we have a skid row alcoholic of fifty years being asked to sponsor a thirteen year old boy who the courts, in their infinite wisdom, decided to send to AA. The sponsor tells the boy what his sponsor told him, counting on the desperation he knows an alcoholic must feel - and the boy is only desperate to get the juvenile court and his parents off his back. It's a bad fit.

Rather than having hopeless alcoholic carrying the message to hopeless alcoholic, we now have hopeless alcoholic carrying a message that would work 50%, 75% or even 92% of the time with another hopeless alcoholic - carrying the message to a potential alcoholic, a problem drinker, a potential problem drinker, etc. Likewise, if that thirteen year old kid decided not to pick up and stick around and acquire some sober time and carries tries to carry a message of hope to a low bottom drunk, it's not going to take. The sense of urgency, desperation and identification just isn't going to be there.

AA refused membership to hopeless dope fiends because "it just isn't the same" and, I believe, they were right to do so. But a hopeless dope fiend (again, in my opinion) has much more in common with a hopeless drunk than a hopeless drunk has with the majority of people coming in to AA today and identifying as an alcoholic.

To the OP, honestly, I have no idea what is the right path for you. I do wish you well in your journey.

Originally Posted by Sobersunshine

Desperado, I got all hung up on the steps at first, too. Didn't want to do the hard ones, then I wanted to make sure I did them "perfectly." then my sponsor kept bugging me, so I just did most of them in one night and it was done. After that I really felt I could move forward and I felt more connected to my AA group. I'm glad I did them and it has really helped me, especially letting go of guilt and resentments. I don't get all hung up on them though. You certainly dont need the steps to stay sober, or to be in AA. But why not just give it a whirl, even if you heart isn't totally in it, even if it is just "jumping through a hoop." the results may just surprise you! I got much more out of the steps than I ever thought I would.

Originally Posted by Linnie

Thank you so much for this post!!! I have ZERO interest in AA for the same reason! Step 9? No thank you. I have a lot of support from friends and my husband. I'm only on day 8 and if I can't hack it, I'll definitely go to AA (clearly my way won't have worked), but I'd rather try it with the help of this forum and my friends and family first. I'm ok with being a "dry drunk" as long as I never drink again. It's better than being a wet drunk hot mess!

Originally Posted by Linnie

I should clarify: I am disinterested in the 9th step because I have always been vigilant in making amends the day after any infraction. To go back to those people and dredge up things from years past for which I've already been forgiven for the sake of completing an assignment seems counterproductive. I don't mean to sound like I'm unwilling to admit fault or make amends. I am very very willing to admit wrongdoing and to grovel for forgiveness immediately afterward. It seems redundant to do it again. Also I'm a practicing Catholic, so I don't need to find God or have someone coach me to turn my problems over to Him. I pray, hard and often. I go to confession and get absolution and counseling from my priest. I honestly feel forgiven and have forgiven myself and the thought of reliving all those things I've done and all the ways I've embarrassed myself makes me feel depressed and anxious. I think I'll stick to focusing on the positive and relying on God to give me strength without having to prove to someone else that I'm doing it.

Originally Posted by Dee74

DB

you asked for input.

some opinions you'll like, some you won't.
Use the ignore function if you find some opinions or posters unreasonable.

let's everyone keep it cool

D

Originally Posted by DesperadoBlond

I think I will just keep going to meetings and give the steps a rest for now. I'll wait for the willingness to do them to come (back). If it doesn't, then I guess I'll just be one of those stepless AAers.

I talked about this in a meeting and an oldtimer did come up to me after and said: It is YOUR recovery..

Originally Posted by Threshold

a few thoughts...

The purpose of a sponsor is to lead someone through the steps. If a sponsee tells their sponsor they aren't going to do the steps, then there is no point in that person remaining their sponsor, because they don't need a sponsor.

If a person has no amends to make, they don't have to invent any just so they can say they did Step 9. The program is about honesty, it there honestly are no needed amends, then on to Step 10.

In the program we are encouraged to share OUR experience, strength and hope. When people start to say "you" rather than "I" something is out of line, then they are trying to control another person's experience.

The steps have nothing to do with winning approval from anyone, though many find them useful in gaining perspective and acceptance of themselves, and the world around them.

The point of principles before personalities is because it is recognized that often individual opinions and personalities cloud what the program is really about. It's about an individual person, examining their individual life, and making changes that help them learn to live sober. It is often a human tendency to "take another's inventory" which is why we are so often reminded to turn our attention, once again to ourselves and our own program.

That is one of the real challenges for many, to tune out personalities, not get distracted by other people's agendas and work their own program to their own advantage. It can be very challenging to not get hung up on outside issues...ie..other people's issues.

12 step programs are not for everyone, but I have found it useful in my own life that if I am trying to learn a language I don't get hung up on other peoples accents, I focus on the grammar of the language itself.

Originally Posted by DesperadoBlond

Alright, we seem to be on the same page more or less I guess.

As for telling my sponsor I don't want to do the steps. The only step I have told him I am not going to do is 9. I told him that on the very first day we talked and he said: there is a reason why there are 8 steps before 9. Don't think about 9 right now. Let's work the other ones before.

And so fast forward to today. My working the steps has stalled and my sponsor has made it clear that there's nothing to talk about if I don't do step work...

Originally Posted by Threshold

It is true, the steps are in order for a reason. We can't really know who, what, where or why until we get there. It's hard to be willing to do something we don't understand. I found that even my own expectations of myself were often unreasonable. Returning to my "learning a new language" metaphor. Reading and stressing over the advanced lessons when I was just starting out wasn't going to get me anything but stressed, nervous and overwhelmed. your mileage may vary.

I have no idea or opinion on whether or not you should have a sponsor. Just bringing up what I learned in 12 step program. A sponsor is there to help us work the steps. If I'm not working the steps...Again with my "learning a new language" metaphor, if I am not going to study and put time into learning the language myself, why keep a teacher around expecting them to tutor me,they may as well be spending their energy on someone who is being proactive.

All the other folks are there to talk, take calls, and be supportive, that's awesome, but the role of a sponsor, to my understanding, is to guide stepwork. No harm, no foul. I can have a support network in the program but that does not have to include a sponsor.