In AA but don't want to do "The Steps" anymore
Recovering
Join Date: May 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,361
Originally Posted by DesperadoBlond 
Hi Dee!!!
As usual you are right. I don't like my life or who I am to be honest. And I guess deep down I don't believe that the steps are going to be able to fix all the stuff I am so deeply unhappy about.
As usual you are right. I don't like my life or who I am to be honest. And I guess deep down I don't believe that the steps are going to be able to fix all the stuff I am so deeply unhappy about.
If you don't like yourself at the moment (BTW, I do believe God loves you, even if you don't currently love yourself) then it seems something is tweaking your conscience. The steps, worked as slowly as you like, may help you to explore that and open yourself up to 'fixing' by God. Mind you, I think we're all works in progress - we're all 'being fixed' rather than people who 'have been fixed'.
Previously it sounded to me that you'd found a nice peaceful sobriety without the steps, but it does seem from your comment above that there's still more peace for you to find. Maybe the steps can help with that, though it's something any good spiritual director can probably help with. That's all assuming you are spiritually inclined, of course, and not everybody is at all points in their lives.
God bless +
Michael
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 625
Hi DesperadoBlond,
You said, in response to my reply. I suppose I could have been clearer. You said, in your OP and in regards to your fourth step:
For an alcoholic like myself: a drowning man who was desperate enough to grab any branch that was offered me, there were no suggestions that I found too daunting. I'm not alone. There are a good number of alcoholics in AA who are like me, but they are no longer the majority. What I was suggestion is the idea that perhaps alcohol and alcoholism has not taken you to a place where any suggestion looks like an improvement over what you were doing when you came into AA.
There's nothing wrong with that. I can tread water for 30 minutes. If I'm treading water for five minutes and there's a bunch of would be rescuer's around and one of them offers me a branch to pull me out and it's a branch covered with spiders, I might refuse the offered branch hoping for another branch which wasn't quite so infested with spiders. Likewise with the self-examination inherent in the steps. There's a lot of unpleasant memories and such that are dredged up by the steps and if you're not in the throes of late stage desperation, you might look for another way....completely reasonable.
It's really easy for me to think that you are putting the cart before the horse here because it would have been the cart before the horse for me. I'm learning however, that though we use the same term to describe ourselves (alcoholic) this may not be the cart before the horse for you. All a sponsor can do is tell you how he or she did it and walk you through the steps the way that they were walked through the steps. If, like me, taking the steps were a matter of life and death and therefore the number one priority, you might understand why some members shake their head at you and can't figure why you'd put your life second to finding a job. Fact is, perhaps your life is not in any kind of immediate danger like theirs.
Again, same principle. What I felt like doing was immaterial, it was a matter of life and death for me. I could not have stayed sober 9 months by just going to meetings... you can and have. And again, if we're both alcoholics, it's reasonable that I would think that the prescription that's going to lead me to recovery is the same prescription you need...and it's the only prescription I can recommend cause it's the only one I've taken.
Lot's of hopeless alcoholics balked at the ninth step too but when we arrived there, we were ready. Since his experience very likely was that he 'became ready' that you will too. Personally I understand his thinking on dating - I was not ready, he probably wasn't ready and while you may be ready or soon will be even without doing the ninth step - there's no way for me (or him) to know that from our own experience.
A sponsors job is to walk someone through the steps. They are not there to talk about politics, or to bs or to hang out at the bowling alley together. Many sponsors will eventually become friends with their sponsee's but that is an effect of doing the steps together.
Usually this is code for, "If you keep going to meetings and not drink, you'll eventually come around to our way of thinking."
Anyway, I hope I explained it better this time.
You said,
I don't see the relevance of this, but thanks for commenting.
Originally Posted by DesperadoBlond
It's too daunting to even start writing it.
There's nothing wrong with that. I can tread water for 30 minutes. If I'm treading water for five minutes and there's a bunch of would be rescuer's around and one of them offers me a branch to pull me out and it's a branch covered with spiders, I might refuse the offered branch hoping for another branch which wasn't quite so infested with spiders. Likewise with the self-examination inherent in the steps. There's a lot of unpleasant memories and such that are dredged up by the steps and if you're not in the throes of late stage desperation, you might look for another way....completely reasonable.
Originally Posted by DesperadoBlond
I have had a lot of challenges in my financial and work(finding) situations lately... and honestly I feel like I spend my time frivolously when I write inventories instead of looking for a stable job.
Originally Posted by DesperadoBlond
I just don't feel like (want to) do it.
Originally Posted by DesperadoBlond
Also, people keep talking to me about what a relief it will be to do my 9th step - the one step I vowed from the very beginning (even to my sponsor) never to do. My sponsor countered by saying: no dating (serious or very casual even) before you do that step!
Originally Posted by DesperadoBlond
Last time I called my sponsor on the phone I told him honestly that I haven't done any step work. He made it quite clear that in that case we have nothing to discuss.
Originally Posted by DesperadoBlond
So, now it's been like 2 weeks since that talk... I go to meetings... 5 times a week... but I don't want to work the steps anymore. Some people in my local AA say: just don't drink and go to meetings.
Anyway, I hope I explained it better this time.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 611
I just love your honesty. That alone might be your biggest asset. You are aware of the resistance and aware of your truth at this stage. Props for that. I feel the same way about my step work. I am on steps 6-7 and I'm just burned out. I'm not getting a ton of relief like everyone said I would. I'm not having the "promises" come true (yet! I know it takes time) but I keep going for some reason. Maybe I'm out to prove that the steps aren't going to work. Nice attitude right? If that's my motivation I might be screwed. But things change. I say pray for willingness and keep going to meetings. And done drink, obviously. The rest will fall into place if you don't drink.
Memberado
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Europe
Posts: 287
Well,
legna,
I do appreciate your taking the time to have these reflections on my thoughts with regard to all of this.
At the same time. To me, you come off as being on a high AA horse in what you write. Feel free to stay up there, since it probably works well for you.
Thank you in any case.
legna,
I do appreciate your taking the time to have these reflections on my thoughts with regard to all of this.
At the same time. To me, you come off as being on a high AA horse in what you write. Feel free to stay up there, since it probably works well for you.
Thank you in any case.
Originally Posted by legna
Hi DesperadoBlond,
You said, in response to my reply. I suppose I could have been clearer. You said, in your OP and in regards to your fourth step:
For an alcoholic like myself: a drowning man who was desperate enough to grab any branch that was offered me, there were no suggestions that I found too daunting. I'm not alone. There are a good number of alcoholics in AA who are like me, but they are no longer the majority. What I was suggestion is the idea that perhaps alcohol and alcoholism has not taken you to a place where any suggestion looks like an improvement over what you were doing when you came into AA.
There's nothing wrong with that. I can tread water for 30 minutes. If I'm treading water for five minutes and there's a bunch of would be rescuer's around and one of them offers me a branch to pull me out and it's a branch covered with spiders, I might refuse the offered branch hoping for another branch which wasn't quite so infested with spiders. Likewise with the self-examination inherent in the steps. There's a lot of unpleasant memories and such that are dredged up by the steps and if you're not in the throes of late stage desperation, you might look for another way....completely reasonable.
It's really easy for me to think that you are putting the cart before the horse here because it would have been the cart before the horse for me. I'm learning however, that though we use the same term to describe ourselves (alcoholic) this may not be the cart before the horse for you. All a sponsor can do is tell you how he or she did it and walk you through the steps the way that they were walked through the steps. If, like me, taking the steps were a matter of life and death and therefore the number one priority, you might understand why some members shake their head at you and can't figure why you'd put your life second to finding a job. Fact is, perhaps your life is not in any kind of immediate danger like theirs.
Again, same principle. What I felt like doing was immaterial, it was a matter of life and death for me. I could not have stayed sober 9 months by just going to meetings... you can and have. And again, if we're both alcoholics, it's reasonable that I would think that the prescription that's going to lead me to recovery is the same prescription you need...and it's the only prescription I can recommend cause it's the only one I've taken.
Lot's of hopeless alcoholics balked at the ninth step too but when we arrived there, we were ready. Since his experience very likely was that he 'became ready' that you will too. Personally I understand his thinking on dating - I was not ready, he probably wasn't ready and while you may be ready or soon will be even without doing the ninth step - there's no way for me (or him) to know that from our own experience.
A sponsors job is to walk someone through the steps. They are not there to talk about politics, or to bs or to hang out at the bowling alley together. Many sponsors will eventually become friends with their sponsee's but that is an effect of doing the steps together.
Usually this is code for, "If you keep going to meetings and not drink, you'll eventually come around to our way of thinking."
Anyway, I hope I explained it better this time.
You said, in response to my reply. I suppose I could have been clearer. You said, in your OP and in regards to your fourth step:
For an alcoholic like myself: a drowning man who was desperate enough to grab any branch that was offered me, there were no suggestions that I found too daunting. I'm not alone. There are a good number of alcoholics in AA who are like me, but they are no longer the majority. What I was suggestion is the idea that perhaps alcohol and alcoholism has not taken you to a place where any suggestion looks like an improvement over what you were doing when you came into AA.
There's nothing wrong with that. I can tread water for 30 minutes. If I'm treading water for five minutes and there's a bunch of would be rescuer's around and one of them offers me a branch to pull me out and it's a branch covered with spiders, I might refuse the offered branch hoping for another branch which wasn't quite so infested with spiders. Likewise with the self-examination inherent in the steps. There's a lot of unpleasant memories and such that are dredged up by the steps and if you're not in the throes of late stage desperation, you might look for another way....completely reasonable.
It's really easy for me to think that you are putting the cart before the horse here because it would have been the cart before the horse for me. I'm learning however, that though we use the same term to describe ourselves (alcoholic) this may not be the cart before the horse for you. All a sponsor can do is tell you how he or she did it and walk you through the steps the way that they were walked through the steps. If, like me, taking the steps were a matter of life and death and therefore the number one priority, you might understand why some members shake their head at you and can't figure why you'd put your life second to finding a job. Fact is, perhaps your life is not in any kind of immediate danger like theirs.
Again, same principle. What I felt like doing was immaterial, it was a matter of life and death for me. I could not have stayed sober 9 months by just going to meetings... you can and have. And again, if we're both alcoholics, it's reasonable that I would think that the prescription that's going to lead me to recovery is the same prescription you need...and it's the only prescription I can recommend cause it's the only one I've taken.
Lot's of hopeless alcoholics balked at the ninth step too but when we arrived there, we were ready. Since his experience very likely was that he 'became ready' that you will too. Personally I understand his thinking on dating - I was not ready, he probably wasn't ready and while you may be ready or soon will be even without doing the ninth step - there's no way for me (or him) to know that from our own experience.
A sponsors job is to walk someone through the steps. They are not there to talk about politics, or to bs or to hang out at the bowling alley together. Many sponsors will eventually become friends with their sponsee's but that is an effect of doing the steps together.
Usually this is code for, "If you keep going to meetings and not drink, you'll eventually come around to our way of thinking."
Anyway, I hope I explained it better this time.
Memberado
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Europe
Posts: 287
Hi BabyJane!
Thanks for the reply!!!
Yeah, maybe people like you and me, we just need to take our time with the steps?
Now that I think about it, I've heard many different takes on it all... Though many do seem to think that the 4th step should be deal with quickly for several reasons.
Oh well. I guess when the willingness comes, it comes.
Have a great day!!!
Thanks for the reply!!!
Yeah, maybe people like you and me, we just need to take our time with the steps?
Now that I think about it, I've heard many different takes on it all... Though many do seem to think that the 4th step should be deal with quickly for several reasons.
Oh well. I guess when the willingness comes, it comes.
Have a great day!!!
Originally Posted by BabyJane
I just love your honesty. That alone might be your biggest asset. You are aware of the resistance and aware of your truth at this stage. Props for that. I feel the same way about my step work. I am on steps 6-7 and I'm just burned out. I'm not getting a ton of relief like everyone said I would. I'm not having the "promises" come true (yet! I know it takes time) but I keep going for some reason. Maybe I'm out to prove that the steps aren't going to work. Nice attitude right? If that's my motivation I might be screwed. But things change. I say pray for willingness and keep going to meetings. And done drink, obviously. The rest will fall into place if you don't drink.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 625
Originally Posted by DesperadoBlond
Well,
legna,
I do appreciate your taking the time to have these reflections on my thoughts with regard to all of this.
At the same time. To me, you come off as being on a high AA horse in what you write. Feel free to stay up there, since it probably works well for you.
Thank you in any case.
legna,
I do appreciate your taking the time to have these reflections on my thoughts with regard to all of this.
At the same time. To me, you come off as being on a high AA horse in what you write. Feel free to stay up there, since it probably works well for you.
Thank you in any case.
Most of my time in sobriety has been without AA because it wasn't a good fit for me either - although I believe it is for different reasons that you. I attended meetings for the first three years and then left, only returning twenty months ago to accompany my wife who is court ordered to go to meetings. Had she not been ordered to go, I would have continued to be sober without AA...and when she is off parole and need not attend any longer, I shall not be attending either.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Hi again, DB... I wanted to add that some of us are actually doing these steps outside of AA, and doing so in a less structured manner. Right now, I am working my way through them from somewhat of an alternative perspective... I am reading through Marya Hornbacher's book entitled Waiting. It's about the 12 Steps. It may not interest you, the book... but I just wanted to speak up about this again, that many who are not in AA do similar if not the same types of "steps" throughout sobriety, it just may not be AA-approved or whatever.
The concepts in the 12 Steps are universal across many religions. So some people do these things through organized religion and churches. May just not be specific to addiction.
The concepts in the 12 Steps are universal across many religions. So some people do these things through organized religion and churches. May just not be specific to addiction.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Originally Posted by legna
I was absolutely shocked to read the underlined part...and I'm so sorry that it came off like that.
Memberado
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Europe
Posts: 287
Alright!
I apologize if I have misunderstood what you were trying to communicate! As I said, I did appreciate reading what you had to say in either case.
As long as we stay sober, who cares about the details!
I apologize if I have misunderstood what you were trying to communicate! As I said, I did appreciate reading what you had to say in either case.
As long as we stay sober, who cares about the details!
Originally Posted by legna
I was absolutely shocked to read the underlined part...and I'm so sorry that it came off like that. So let me just say one more short thing and hopefully rectify my poor communication.
Most of my time in sobriety has been without AA because it wasn't a good fit for me either - although I believe it is for different reasons that you. I attended meetings for the first three years and then left, only returning twenty months ago to accompany my wife who is court ordered to go to meetings. Had she not been ordered to go, I would have continued to be sober without AA...and when she is off parole and need not attend any longer, I shall not be attending either.
Most of my time in sobriety has been without AA because it wasn't a good fit for me either - although I believe it is for different reasons that you. I attended meetings for the first three years and then left, only returning twenty months ago to accompany my wife who is court ordered to go to meetings. Had she not been ordered to go, I would have continued to be sober without AA...and when she is off parole and need not attend any longer, I shall not be attending either.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by Michael66
My reading of the Big Book (I'm not in AA, but like the Big Book), is that there is an implicit trust that it is God that fixes us. The steps, to me, align with quite a traditional Christian approach of self-examination, 'repentance' and a trust in God to help heal us.
If you don't like yourself at the moment (BTW, I do believe God loves you, even if you don't currently love yourself) then it seems something is tweaking your conscience. The steps, worked as slowly as you like, may help you to explore that and open yourself up to 'fixing' by God. Mind you, I think we're all works in progress - we're all 'being fixed' rather than people who 'have been fixed'.
Previously it sounded to me that you'd found a nice peaceful sobriety without the steps, but it does seem from your comment above that there's still more peace for you to find. Maybe the steps can help with that, though it's something any good spiritual director can probably help with. That's all assuming you are spiritually inclined, of course, and not everybody is at all points in their lives.
God bless +
Michael
It seems to me that by simply and honestly embracing religion fully as an active part of ones lifestyle one probably could do as well in abstinence as attending any AA program.
What AA admittedly does well/best is teaching the hazard associated with taking a first drink. Once that is fully understood, there is no reason why any other honest and active religious lifestyle could take AA's place in an alcoholic's life.
Every Mother's Worst Nightmare
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Deep in the heart of LaLa land
Posts: 688
Originally Posted by DesperadoBlond
Hi Hcatoni,
Thanks!
Yeah, I will definitely keep going to meetings! I totally recognize that they were what made me stop drinking in the first place. So Have no plans on stopping.
Maybe I just need to look for a sponsor I can relate better to? Though many are those who warn me right now: Don't be without a sponsor for any period of time!
Thanks!
Yeah, I will definitely keep going to meetings! I totally recognize that they were what made me stop drinking in the first place. So Have no plans on stopping.
Maybe I just need to look for a sponsor I can relate better to? Though many are those who warn me right now: Don't be without a sponsor for any period of time!
Everybody's different mate but sometimes you just got to trust your gut and go with it.
Edit:
Oh cool - I even managed to hit the wrong quote there so what I've said makes a lot less sense in isolation. Och well...
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Originally Posted by DesperadoBlond
Alright!
I apologize if I have misunderstood what you were trying to communicate! As I said, I did appreciate reading what you had to say in either case.
As long as we stay sober, who cares about the details!
I apologize if I have misunderstood what you were trying to communicate! As I said, I did appreciate reading what you had to say in either case.
As long as we stay sober, who cares about the details!
Step 10: Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
Looks like step 10 work to me. See? Working the steps is not that difficult
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 97
Originally Posted by DesperadoBlond
The part about Step 9 that I can't stomach is where you are supposed to make amends for situations in which you were wronged (supposedly you still have to make amends for any later retaliation you may be responsible for).
One example: I once got illegally fired from a job. I had a horrible boss who was trying to force me to sign a contract without letting me read it... it was all a mess. AND I should have sued (which I didn't). Yet, all the step lover people tell me: OOOOOOH, that is a wonderful opportunity to be humble and go back and apologize to your old boss! Surely you had a part in what was going on! It's a wonderful and liberating experience when you apologize for your part in that situation!
Read my lips: w o n ' t e v e r h a p p e n !
One example: I once got illegally fired from a job. I had a horrible boss who was trying to force me to sign a contract without letting me read it... it was all a mess. AND I should have sued (which I didn't). Yet, all the step lover people tell me: OOOOOOH, that is a wonderful opportunity to be humble and go back and apologize to your old boss! Surely you had a part in what was going on! It's a wonderful and liberating experience when you apologize for your part in that situation!
Read my lips: w o n ' t e v e r h a p p e n !
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Originally Posted by DesperadoBlond
The part about Step 9 that I can't stomach is where you are supposed to make amends for situations in which you were wronged (supposedly you still have to make amends for any later retaliation you may be responsible for).
One example: I once got illegally fired from a job. I had a horrible boss who was trying to force me to sign a contract without letting me read it... it was all a mess. AND I should have sued (which I didn't). Yet, all the step lover people tell me: OOOOOOH, that is a wonderful opportunity to be humble and go back and apologize to your old boss! Surely you had a part in what was going on! It's a wonderful and liberating experience when you apologize for your part in that situation
Read my lips: w o n ' t e v e r h a p p e n !
One example: I once got illegally fired from a job. I had a horrible boss who was trying to force me to sign a contract without letting me read it... it was all a mess. AND I should have sued (which I didn't). Yet, all the step lover people tell me: OOOOOOH, that is a wonderful opportunity to be humble and go back and apologize to your old boss! Surely you had a part in what was going on! It's a wonderful and liberating experience when you apologize for your part in that situation
Read my lips: w o n ' t e v e r h a p p e n !
I am a step loving person (for some reason you make it sound bad LOL) and sometimes there are situations which are not our fault.
Sometimes we have to make amends to ourselves. In your case it could be that you were in an hostile work environment and the amend would be to insure it does not happen again and that you are in a job that you enjoy and were you are treated with respect. How would you do that? From examining what let to the blow out with your former boss, you would be able to recognize the "red flags" and avoid getting back into a similar situation >by not taking the job or quitting or setting boundaries early on etc.<
Also, sometimes a situation will send us back to step 3. For example, not so long ago, something really bad happened at my job which could have carried some bad consequences for me. I was an anxious mess and I did a 10th step on it and it confirmed that I had no part in it.
Based on that I could have reverted to my control issues and tried to manipulate the situation one way or another (at my own risks) but I chose to go back to a step three on that one and turn it over knowing that I had done nothing wrong and that things would work out as long as I kept doing the next right thing. Letting go and having faith was difficult and I had to catch myself and stay in the moment many times but in the end, everything turned out ok.
The thing is that having done a few fourth steps, I know my pattern of behavior and my character "defects" and what has been my MO in the past and has sometimes blown up in my face.
Self knowledge helped me identify a correct course of action (in my case the one least likely to lead me to a drink).
Anyway I am probably very boring here LOL. My sponsor's approach to the steps was not a punitive one. I never did a fourth based on the premises that I was an horribly flawed piece of garbage who needed to find redemption. I see the fourth as an opportunity instead to take a clear look at my behaviors and triggers and work on that.
I am not into a "competition" to see who was the baddest of the bad, the drunkest of the drunks, the lowest of the lows and I avoid groups where this kind of view is rampant. Often the ones where people will launch into long drunkologues.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 484
I love this topic. Working the steps is 100% NOT NECESSARY. It even says so in the 12 steps and 12 traditions. AA's 12 Steps are SUGGESTIONS.
I always think of Billy, a member around here who's been sober 40+years. Never worked the steps.
Anyone who tells you working the steps is mandatory needs to take a good hard look at themselves. It says in AA "We do not govern" and it also says, "The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking."
Because think of it this way: How on EARTH is an atheist suppose to identify with AA's 12 steps? To most atheists the mere mention of the word "God" will make an athiest cringe with disappointment.
First, let me say that I do believe in God, but I think that the 12 Steps were slanted SEVERELY in favor of believers. Which I don't think is fair. I feel recovery should be available to ALL people.
So in short, if not drinking and going to meetings is working for you, keep doing what you're doing. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the way you've been working your recovery. And if anyone tells you otherwise, tell them to worry about themselves.
If the primary purpose of AA is to "Stay sober and help other alcoholics achieve sobriety" then I'd say you're doing a fine job of that. Keep up the good work!
I always think of Billy, a member around here who's been sober 40+years. Never worked the steps.
Anyone who tells you working the steps is mandatory needs to take a good hard look at themselves. It says in AA "We do not govern" and it also says, "The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking."
Because think of it this way: How on EARTH is an atheist suppose to identify with AA's 12 steps? To most atheists the mere mention of the word "God" will make an athiest cringe with disappointment.
First, let me say that I do believe in God, but I think that the 12 Steps were slanted SEVERELY in favor of believers. Which I don't think is fair. I feel recovery should be available to ALL people.
So in short, if not drinking and going to meetings is working for you, keep doing what you're doing. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the way you've been working your recovery. And if anyone tells you otherwise, tell them to worry about themselves.
If the primary purpose of AA is to "Stay sober and help other alcoholics achieve sobriety" then I'd say you're doing a fine job of that. Keep up the good work!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by DesperadoBlond
One example: I once got illegally fired from a job. I had a horrible boss who was trying to force me to sign a contract without letting me read it... it was all a mess. AND I should have sued (which I didn't). Yet, all the step lover people tell me: OOOOOOH, that is a wonderful opportunity to be humble and go back and apologize to your old boss! Surely you had a part in what was going on! It's a wonderful and liberating experience when you apologize for your part in that situation!
Read my lips: w o n ' t e v e r h a p p e n !
Read my lips: w o n ' t e v e r h a p p e n !
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by DesperadoBlond
Well,
may I ask you how good of a program you are running yourself? Since when is it OK to take someone else's "inventory"?
may I ask you how good of a program you are running yourself? Since when is it OK to take someone else's "inventory"?
" if you decided you want what we have..."
how would I know I want what they had if I didn't take their inventoruy? dam straight I take others inventory. I don't want rapists, pedophiles, or perverts in my life and I cant tell that if I don't.
but ive only been sober since 2005.
and im not running it. im living it.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by DesperadoBlond
Tomsteve,
I see your point but you do sound like one of those extremist BB thumpers nonetheless!
I see your point but you do sound like one of those extremist BB thumpers nonetheless!
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