augustwest

This is 100% true no matter what treatment plan is proposed.

Ranger

I repeat that despite what one might or might not hear in the “rooms”, as sobriety matures COUNTLESS people evolve from literally deciding to not drink today to figuratively “making” that daily decision.

So there, I’ve raised your “countless’ with a capitalized “countless”.

This is common sense. Although the words are identical, the breadth and depth of me saying “I decide to not drink today” at three DAYS sober is incomparable to when I say it at 3 YEARS sober.

Indeed, where you appear stuck in the mud is in extrapolating Week 1 mentality to Week 1000. This assumption of stagnation sells the addict short by assuming s/he is incapable of personal growth, which is quite unexpected from someone who claims to be a champion of the unknowingly capable addict.

And while we’re at it, let me highlight again we’re in the NEWCOMERS section. For many addicts—perhaps lower-case “countless”—ODAAT provides the initial space required to start (re)building. During the rebuilding process, ODAAT might or might not play an ongoing role. Certainly it is often quoted in the “rooms”. But, how many more folks use AA as a launching pad to sobriety rather than becoming “lifers”? Dare I say capitalized, bold-font COUNTLESS?

DarrenW

I will never drink again- thats my decision. Not today or in two weeks, two years, etc.

RobbyRobot

Yup. Now follow thru with doing *whatever* it takes to keep what you spoke of today as truth. It takes honest lasting changing pure and simple to keep not drinking a sure thing.

I'm not suggesting that you haven't already been following thru.

Terminally Unique

There is no need for me to extrapolate, Ranger, since others tell me that they extrapolate. GirlFromCO, for example, says that at 8 months in, she still hasn't decided, but I've seen people with years in who haven't.

I'll grant that the newcomers forum may not be the best place for a heavy discussion, but it is precisely the 'newcomers' who are most tempted to put off quitting — preferably for as long as possible. If the thread is misplaced, though, I trust the mods will move it elsewhere.

I already acknowledged as much:

langkah

langkah: Should they have a neighbor who drinks a lot, for example. He believes in getting right in the drinker's face and telling them they better stop for good, or else.

TU: Firstly, Rational Recovery has no members. Secondly, RR's advice on ultimatums is for families who are at their wits end, not for the neighbor.

Trimpey: If my neighbor drinks, that’s his business. If he hurts people when he drinks, that’s everybody’s business, my business, your business. The sharpest, most effective intervention for that person is a confrontation, “Hey, buddy, I know what you’re doing and your drinking makes you dangerous. You know right from wrong, so knock off the drinking, for good!” No paper slippers, no recovery groups, no one-day-at-a-time sobriety, no sponsors. Just knock it off, or else.

Trimpey: The Rational Recovery Monitor Program (RRMP) is part of the membership area of the RR website.

I guess that's part of the membership area where members could go if RR had members. Since they don't you say, Trimpey should really then delete that entirely, or possibly use that space as a shrine venerating the wisdom of Ann Coulter.

Terminally Unique

If someone hurts others when they drink, that is indeed other other people's business, and someone will restrain them, usually the police.

The RRMP is for people mandated to AA/NA by the courts or as part of a diversion program. Some people manage to convince the judge to accept it as an alternative.

Terminally Unique

Langkah, you won't easily suck me into an irrelevant discussion on Jack Trimpey's political or religious beliefs. I don't actually care too much what the man thinks about any of that stuff. Besides, I know your MO from your many attempts to stir things up on other non-AA forums, remember?

Dee74

I think we've had a good run but the theme keeps coming back to other peoples experiences & a little bit of axe grinding so I think we'll leave it there.

Hopefully those newcomers who've read the thread got something out of it

D