Terminally Unique

I sometimes view 'alcoholism' as a perverse love affair with the bottle. In this context, we can view 'recovery' as a divorce. If you got divorced 'just for today', though, you would still be married.

zxcirce

I do see where you're coming from....but really, I think we're arguing semantics. Divorce is an event. Recovery is a way of life.

I can stay sober forever by staying sober today...because when I wake up tomorrow....it will be today.

Anna

The first three weeks of my sobriety were definitely one day at a time. And, I amazed myself by getting through each day. But, around the 3-week point, something clicked and it became forever. I think at that time, I had a comfortable daily routine, which balanced my life, and I knew it would in the long term.

Terminally Unique

I suppose that would depend on your view of recovery. Within the AVRT paradigm, for example, recovery is indeed an event. It is the moment of irrevocable commitment to permanent abstinence, and not a protracted process of procrastination.

zxcirce

Yes I get it, isn't it called the "Big Decision"? Sorry if that's the wrong term but I suppose that does make it a discrete event in time. Hmmmm.

wheresthefun

Have you been divorced? I have and that is why I said deciding to become a non-drinker was ONE of the most liberating moments of my life. Another one of those liberating moments was when I made the decision that my marriage was over - for good!

I'm now a divorced person, who is remarried, I'm also a non-drinker... just some of the things that I am. I'm sure my present wife could add a few more things to that list.

GirlFromCO

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but that's not really the addict's problem. In that case, the addict would be holding up their end up the bargain by staying sober, no matter how s/he achieves it. The SO in this case would have their own decision to make about whether or not they felt comfortable with the uncertainty.

Unless the loved one in question is a child, both sides of the addict/codependent equation are perfectly capable of defining their own boundaries. Kids are a whole other can of worms though, because unlike adults, their parents ARE responsible for their well being. I haven't thought about it much because I don't have children, but I think I agree more with your mentality in a situation where children are involved. It's not just your life your messing with anymore, at that point.

freshstart57

Me too. Signature file attached. Aaaaaaaaaaand, six months yesterday was the last drink.

Terminally Unique

Your signature line — "I will never now drink" — has a key word in it. That word is never. Using a single day instead of 'now' as a measurement, the analogue would be:
Compare to:
Not quite the same, not by a long shot.

Terminally Unique

They are indeed, and some people are apparently capable of living with the uncertainty. Personally, I wouldn't put up with 'just for today'. Perhaps initially, for about 90 days, but beyond that, I better start hearing that 'never' word. Otherwise, forget it.

The grand illusion of all addicted people is that they are only messing with their own lives, and no one else's. This is rarely the case, even for single people without children. Children would, however, certainly make this far more pronounced, as evidenced by the ACOA forum.

Rexfiles

Ummmmm.....

When I passed five years back in 2003, I was absolutely, POSITIVE, I would NEVER, EVER, touch Alcohol AGAIN!!!! PERIOD

ahem.......

When I got to six, I relapsed.

I knew of a local woman that had 30 years.

She raised her kids, then her husband got cancer, and she cared for him for five years.

Mind you, she was VERY active in AA.

He passed, she drank.

She died within three months.

Forever?????

OK......your mileage may vary.........

Rex

BHF

I admit to having little knowledge of AVRT, but I can tell you that NO commitment in my life to this point, either sober or not, has ever been irrevocable. Little, if anything, in life truly is, regardless of whether it is described as such.

As far as procrastination, it simply doesn't bother me to take it day by day. If I quit today (hypothetically) and do it ODAAT and someone else quits at the same time and makes a statement that it is a permanent abstinence who's to say if one will be succesful or not? I'm sure people have been successful in both cases. I know people in and outside of AA have been successful with ODAAT, although I would assume that after a significant period of time sober they no longer considered it ODAAT, as it becomes the norm.

I'm at the point where I don't care how I get the results, just as long as I get the results. The goal is no longer just "stay sober", although that must always be the largest component, but rather, live a good life, enjoy it and make the most of it. To this end, I don't need anyone else to validate how I approach my continuing sobriety, cause, today, it's working for me. I've also learned to extend the same courtesy to others.

Best to all, however you do it.

Terminally Unique

That's unfortunate for you and anyone that relies on you.

Of course it doesn't. That is the default state while in addiction, where life is lived day by day, with no hope for the future, and where time is measured between drinks/fixes, circling around itself. You have simply maintained the status quo.

The old classic — the "who are you to say that?" line. I may not know what I will be doing in the future, or even tomorrow, but I can certainly know of a few things that I will not be doing. Drinking is only one of those things. Others are simply too heinous to even mention, much less consider. My money is on the person that expects a higher standard for themselves, and accordingly, aims higher.

GirlFromCO

I never said addicted people only mess with their own lives. That is clearly not the case and I'm not sure you'd find very many who would support that notion. What I meant is that adults are ultimately free to choose whether or not they get messed with.

So you wouldn't be okay without a forever commitment - that's your choice. My husband is okay with my ambivalence about forever. That's his choice, and he is free to change his mind at any point. I can't worry about what he thinks or what he's going to do in regards to my approach to recovery. All I can do is take care of my own s***, you know? I can't decide how he's going to feel about something, no more than he could decide to make me stop drinking when I didn't want to.

Lily

I just want to add in here that after having 7 yrs sober but not working the BEST recovery program, I can remember telling myself I would NEVER drink or use again. I can remember being at a friends house and she always offered me a beer. One time I took one and after 6 I got in my car and just cried. See, I wasn't living in today. I was scared and nervous about my upcoming wedding and a lot of other things. I didn't drink again for a year, but when my new husband of 9 months was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer, I did again. Obviously I was not trusting my HP and wanted to escape. Now since I do live in today and pray about things and give them over, I really only can say "for today." It gives me great comfort, however by the same token I am not in the back of my head thinking tomorrow I can.

BHF

Just for you TU, once again:

To this end, I don't need anyone else to validate how I approach my continuing sobriety, cause, today, it's working for me. I've also learned to extend the same courtesy to others.

Best to all, however you do it.

Terminally Unique

I've already stated that "One Day at a Time" has been perverted to imply quitting ODAAT, but just in case anyone doubts this, here is the 1940 Akron manual from AA group #1. They didn't settle for quitting just for today.

Not surprisingly, a sizable number of the pioneers of Alcoholics Anonymous did indeed achieve permanent sobriety.

RobbyRobot

For me these two statements of inquiry present as entwined, inseparable, and inter-dependent with each other. Like yin yang. now then. more less. here there. man woman. These ideas compliment each other. Within each is the required other which in balance defines both.

When I last detoxed I quit alcohol by absolutely embracing both ideas equally. I did so not because I was being smart but because I could not resolve the dilemma and I just accepted the obvious: I didn't care. I just never wanted to be drunk again. They both seemed right to me.

So did I in effect choose quit once and forever? No. It is only with using logical reasoning that it appears I chose that over quitting just for today. I embraced both in my heart and alcoholic mind. With both I could get on with the business of quitting and staying quit. I believed at the time it would be better to have my actual experience of quitting inform me as to what is what as I progressed.

As it turned out I never drank again and I did so one day at a time. Do I still embrace both ideas? Yes. I still do, even with now enjoying a sober mind, and no harm in the embrace of both have I experienced thru these 30 years of sans alcohol.

So neither is better then the other, and more so, neither exists without the other existing. Even if in that existing a person rails against one idea over the other, that railing creates energy to embrace even more their applied choice, so in effect both ideas are used but with different values and inherent worths to the user.

Did I say that out loud?

heh.



Great thread.

Terminally Unique

Very clever, Robby. The more I see people aiming for the lowest common denominator, embracing the cardinal rule of addiction ("never say never to the possible future use of alcohol and other drugs"), the more convinced I become that it is not the way to go for me. So, it would seem that perhaps some good does indeed come out of it after all.

Purplecatlover

I believe both are true. You live one while aspiring for the other.
That said, does it matter how you cope as long as you abstain?
Whether, 30 days sober or 30 years, we will all die alcoholics.
That is what we are.