There is No Approved Method, Just Do It.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
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SR is a great community - so many people successfully recovered from substance abuse...and so many ways to do it.
One of the reasons I believe we are so great here is we run on certain principles. For me the most important of these are
I'm here everyday. I don't always like every opinion I read, but I respect the posters right to post it.
I believe that every poster in their own way is trying to share their experience and help someone else.
I've learned from the newest newbie, the most solitary lone travellers, and the book thumpingest 12 stepper.
Thats pretty amazing.
I think we do a great service when we allow everyone a voice, whether we agree with what they're saying or not.
Everybody here has the capacity to make up their own mind.
Leave them to it
D
One of the reasons I believe we are so great here is we run on certain principles. For me the most important of these are
Tolerance: Please respect the rights of others to hold beliefs and perspectives, which differ from yours. Our Sober Recovery Forum members are of many nationalities, ages, and cultures. Healthy, vigorous debate will further our goals, but only when guided by the tolerance that springs from mutual embrace of mission.
Intellectual Freedom: Embrace diversity of practice. It is impossible to understand an action without first understanding the actor and their environment. Know that varied environments call for varied response. Your way may not be the best way.
Intellectual Freedom: Embrace diversity of practice. It is impossible to understand an action without first understanding the actor and their environment. Know that varied environments call for varied response. Your way may not be the best way.
I believe that every poster in their own way is trying to share their experience and help someone else.
I've learned from the newest newbie, the most solitary lone travellers, and the book thumpingest 12 stepper.
Thats pretty amazing.
I think we do a great service when we allow everyone a voice, whether we agree with what they're saying or not.
Everybody here has the capacity to make up their own mind.
Leave them to it
D
Cause no harm
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 596
Seems to be the age-old "I hate AA, I love AA" syndrome building here. I too, did not experience a truly positive result from AA, very likely because of personal issues, but I do not or will not make a judgement call for others to the program's merit. If a tool works for you use it, if it doesn't, go to the tool box for another. Plain and simple. You have to try it before you buy it. I think fear plays into a lot of newbies that feel AA is something like a nasty dose of bad tasting medicine. It's not. It is proven to work for a multitude of people.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Thanks Super! I have 7+ happy sober months. I have done it by posting on SR and working on my life. I do consider forever abstinent my goal. Its part of my approach....alcohol holds no appeal to me therefore forever abstinent is the goal. When I have the random errant drinking thought I remind myself of this concept.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal CA
Posts: 1,319
Originally Posted by Creekryder 
Seems to be the age-old "I hate AA, I love AA" syndrome building here. I too, did not experience a truly positive result from AA, very likely because of personal issues, but I do not or will not make a judgement call for others to the program's merit. If a tool works for you use it, if it doesn't, go to the tool box for another. Plain and simple. You have to try it before you buy it. I think fear plays into a lot of newbies that feel AA is something like a nasty dose of bad tasting medicine. It's not. It is proven to work for a multitude of people.
The people who take the most offense of my original post are the ones normally guilty of the thumping the loudest...just sayin.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal CA
Posts: 1,319
Originally Posted by FrothyJay
I think I must have missed what you are talking about. Can you show me examples of people on this forum saying that AA is the only way to stay sober?
It would help me understand your argument. You can even private message me the links.
It would help me understand your argument. You can even private message me the links.
But that's cool because the post wasn't to you guys as much as it was to newer people who might be turned off by your method. I just want to let them know to try AA anyways, because my experience was good.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 873
Originally Posted by Supercrew
Although "forever" would be the goal for a majority of alcoholics, after reading many posts I think many would like to accomplish a few years or even a few months of sobriety to turn their lives around. I really like the "one day at a time" mantra, because it gets people started in the right direction. I think forever may be the ultimate goal, but the journey of a million miles starts with the first step.
But now that I have some weeks under my belt I can see how forever is not only possible but also desirable.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 7,910
I think I understand what you're saying, Supercrew.
I remember the evening I made my first post. It was scary.... I didn't know if I would be successful getting sober even for a few days and I knew I was putting myself out there. The responses I got were all positive and encouraging and I'm so grateful for that. It made me feel immediately at home.
I think as people get involved in recovery, it becomes more about changing our life and our thinking, working the steps, getting spiritual (or whatever we do to stay sober). So people's posts reflect where they're at.
I'm trying to "bridge the gap" I guess. I think we should share our ESH, but I also empathize with the person who comes here trying to get sober and may need a hug, some encouragement and a basic tool or two, more than anything.
On a personal note - I've had the same reaction....It's hard to "let it be" with some posts that i read, but it's a great way to practice non-judgement (which I'm not all that great at!!) I used to belong to a religious forum (talk about "discussions")
..... it was a real lesson for me. I used to argue/defend with the best of them - I was just making myself crazy. Being into spiritual stuff, I decided to check my motives. There's a line in a book called A Course in Miracles that says we have to decide ahead of time what we want to come from any situation because that will determine what we will get out of it. As hard as it was for my ego, I tried to make the decision that I wanted love to come from the situation. I don't know why, but that's a hard thing to do sometimes!
I appreciate what you said and think you said it well.
I remember the evening I made my first post. It was scary.... I didn't know if I would be successful getting sober even for a few days and I knew I was putting myself out there. The responses I got were all positive and encouraging and I'm so grateful for that. It made me feel immediately at home.
I think as people get involved in recovery, it becomes more about changing our life and our thinking, working the steps, getting spiritual (or whatever we do to stay sober). So people's posts reflect where they're at.
I'm trying to "bridge the gap" I guess. I think we should share our ESH, but I also empathize with the person who comes here trying to get sober and may need a hug, some encouragement and a basic tool or two, more than anything.
On a personal note - I've had the same reaction....It's hard to "let it be" with some posts that i read, but it's a great way to practice non-judgement (which I'm not all that great at!!) I used to belong to a religious forum (talk about "discussions")
..... it was a real lesson for me. I used to argue/defend with the best of them - I was just making myself crazy. Being into spiritual stuff, I decided to check my motives. There's a line in a book called A Course in Miracles that says we have to decide ahead of time what we want to come from any situation because that will determine what we will get out of it. As hard as it was for my ego, I tried to make the decision that I wanted love to come from the situation. I don't know why, but that's a hard thing to do sometimes!I appreciate what you said and think you said it well.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal CA
Posts: 1,319
Originally Posted by hugger883
Sobriety possible without AA?
dancer1
I still haven't figured out how to make the blue quote boxes. But if you look at dancer1 question posted yesterday and the response by Baschuen on the first page, I think you'll have a better idea of what Supercrew is talking about.
I don't mean to put words in your mouth Super. But that was my impression.
dancer1
I still haven't figured out how to make the blue quote boxes. But if you look at dancer1 question posted yesterday and the response by Baschuen on the first page, I think you'll have a better idea of what Supercrew is talking about.
I don't mean to put words in your mouth Super. But that was my impression.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 581
Originally Posted by Supercrew
Jay, if you haven't recognized this in your own posts let alone some of the other members of the AA recruiting sales staff, me pointing you to a couple of past posts isn't going to make a difference.
But that's cool because the post wasn't to you guys as much as it was to newer people who might be turned off by your method. I just want to let them know to try AA anyways, because my experience was good.
But that's cool because the post wasn't to you guys as much as it was to newer people who might be turned off by your method. I just want to let them know to try AA anyways, because my experience was good.
Show me where I said AA is the only way.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 581
Originally Posted by Supercrew
Read again, my message isn't "I hate AA" or I am against AA in anyway. My message is basically don't allow someone who is outwardly recruiting new members in a strong an opinionated way disuade you from trying the program.
The people who take the most offense of my original post are the ones normally guilty of the thumping the loudest...just sayin.
The people who take the most offense of my original post are the ones normally guilty of the thumping the loudest...just sayin.
Once again, I ask you to talk about your experience--what keeps you sober-- and not what doesn't keep you sober.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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Posts: 1,319
Originally Posted by FrothyJay
No, the point you made is that some of us in this AA recruiting sales staff (you really have to stop it with the derisive comments) say that AA is the only way. That's what I want to see. You really owe it to those who you are trying to protect.
Show me where I said AA is the only way.
Show me where I said AA is the only way.
It took me to go back to a post you made to a newcomer Lushly about 6 posts ago for you.
You stated:
"So while yes, in the very early part of sobriety we need to struggle through, simply staying away from alcohol over the long term is impossible for the chronic alcoholic. Willpower fails, desire fails. Perhaps you've already had plenty of experience with the failure of willpower. I urge you to look at this and consider-- is it because I am weak, or because I have a disease that makes me insanely unable to stop? "
The underlined bold part is false and scary.
And here is another one from our Powerless vs Willpower thread:
And the AA text says that if you are able to quit based on willpower, you are not an alcoholic. I had to understand that quitting for many years and then slipping was not a demonstration that willpower worked, but that it ultimately failed. I needed a program that showed me how I can be done for good and for all.
Whether you got it directly word for word from the BB text, or whether it is you paraphrasing what you think it means I would have to disagree as would many people on this board. Willpower with a good program will work. It just didn't for you I guess.
I am a normal American male alcoholic, and if I were just coming to this forum to find a program to get sober you would have me running from AA.
I am sure I could find many more instances where you tend to thump your message, but like I said, the post wasn't trying to get you to change, I already PMed you in the past and you told me to buzz off and mind my own business. The post was directed at the newcomers letting them know that all AA programs aren't as stringent in their initial message as you might be here in the forum.
Thank you for your response.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
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Originally Posted by supercrew
I am writing this to any newcomers to the board, or anyone who hasn't found a way to get sober and quit drinking/drugging for an extended period of time.
There are many ways to accomplish this goal. It is hard as hell to do it, but it is very worthwhile, and for myself it has improved my life dramatically. Do I think I have everything figured out? No, but I feel very confident that with continuous work toward my goal I eventually will.
Obviously there are many diferent people posting and they are trying and using many different methods, and they all want to help you. A method that works for someone else might not work for you, but don't discount the fact that there are many different ways to accomplish the goal of sobriety. So keep trying.
There are many ways to accomplish this goal. It is hard as hell to do it, but it is very worthwhile, and for myself it has improved my life dramatically. Do I think I have everything figured out? No, but I feel very confident that with continuous work toward my goal I eventually will.
Obviously there are many diferent people posting and they are trying and using many different methods, and they all want to help you. A method that works for someone else might not work for you, but don't discount the fact that there are many different ways to accomplish the goal of sobriety. So keep trying.
I can't really see the benefit to the newcomer in the latest posts.
If people want to have a one on one, I recommend getting a (chat) room.
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No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
Ignore bothersome members. If there is someone on the forum that bothers you, select the Ignore option on the drop down menu under their name on the post. You won't see any posts from this member again.
No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
Ignore bothersome members. If there is someone on the forum that bothers you, select the Ignore option on the drop down menu under their name on the post. You won't see any posts from this member again.
There are many ways to accomplish this goal
D
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 581
Ok, I'll bite.
It took me to go back to a post you made to a newcomer Lushly about 6 posts ago for you.
You stated:
"So while yes, in the very early part of sobriety we need to struggle through, simply staying away from alcohol over the long term is impossible for the chronic alcoholic. Willpower fails, desire fails. Perhaps you've already had plenty of experience with the failure of willpower. I urge you to look at this and consider-- is it because I am weak, or because I have a disease that makes me insanely unable to stop? "
The underlined bold part is false and scary.
It took me to go back to a post you made to a newcomer Lushly about 6 posts ago for you.
You stated:
"So while yes, in the very early part of sobriety we need to struggle through, simply staying away from alcohol over the long term is impossible for the chronic alcoholic. Willpower fails, desire fails. Perhaps you've already had plenty of experience with the failure of willpower. I urge you to look at this and consider-- is it because I am weak, or because I have a disease that makes me insanely unable to stop? "
The underlined bold part is false and scary.
Again, Supercrew, the frustration I have is that you have buried a condemnation of the AA approach in a post that, on the surface, sings Kumbaya. It's "can't we all just get along," but by the way, those guys are propagandists.
And here is another one from our Powerless vs Willpower thread:
And the AA text says that if you are able to quit based on willpower, you are not an alcoholic. I had to understand that quitting for many years and then slipping was not a demonstration that willpower worked, but that it ultimately failed. I needed a program that showed me how I can be done for good and for all.
Whether you got it directly word for word from the BB text, or whether it is you paraphrasing what you think it means I would have to disagree as would many people on this board.
And the AA text says that if you are able to quit based on willpower, you are not an alcoholic. I had to understand that quitting for many years and then slipping was not a demonstration that willpower worked, but that it ultimately failed. I needed a program that showed me how I can be done for good and for all.
Whether you got it directly word for word from the BB text, or whether it is you paraphrasing what you think it means I would have to disagree as would many people on this board.
Willpower with a good program will work. It just didn't for you I guess.
I am a normal American male alcoholic, and if I were just coming to this forum to find a program to get sober you would have me running from AA.
I am sure I could find many more instances where you tend to thump your message, but like I said, the post wasn't trying to get you to change, I already PMed you in the past and you told me to buzz off and mind my own business. The post was directed at the newcomers letting them know that all AA programs aren't as stringent in their initial message as you might be here in the forum.
For the third time, I'll ask: let's hear about your program. The silence is deafening.
Cause no harm
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 596
Supercrew, I was not accusing you of "hating" AA, just pointing to the direction it seems the threads making any notion that AA might not be the silver bullet. It seems lines draw pretty rapidly when the topic arises. No pointing fingers here and didn't mean to give that impression.
Padraic
Padraic
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,451
FrothyJay, I've seen you post terrific advice. I think it's wonderful if people explore AA because of your posts, and hopefully work the steps. I see you as an advocate, not a propagandist, which I agree is a loaded word.
However, like Supercrew I've been taken aback by flat-out declarations that willpower doesn't work. (It may be in the Big Book, but it ain't the book that's posting here.)
I would never tell someone AA doesn't work. The evidence of it's success is everywhere on this board. You're a terrific example of that. I just wish you would not tell newcomers that other approaches do not work. Sometimes they do. I'm not doing AA, I'm relying on SR, willpower, a wide variety of philosophical and spiritual inquiries, and a deep sense of gratitude. I'm not white-knuckling it. I'm happy and hopeful. If someone wants to predict that I'm doomed to relapse at some point, that's their business, but I think it says more about the state of their soul than it does about mine.
Again, I'm glad you post. You may be saving lives. AA has saved millions.
Kumbaya.
However, like Supercrew I've been taken aback by flat-out declarations that willpower doesn't work. (It may be in the Big Book, but it ain't the book that's posting here.)
I would never tell someone AA doesn't work. The evidence of it's success is everywhere on this board. You're a terrific example of that. I just wish you would not tell newcomers that other approaches do not work. Sometimes they do. I'm not doing AA, I'm relying on SR, willpower, a wide variety of philosophical and spiritual inquiries, and a deep sense of gratitude. I'm not white-knuckling it. I'm happy and hopeful. If someone wants to predict that I'm doomed to relapse at some point, that's their business, but I think it says more about the state of their soul than it does about mine.
Again, I'm glad you post. You may be saving lives. AA has saved millions.
Kumbaya.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,512
Hey Guys,
I agree with Dee...I am SO tired of this endless, pointless debate of AA/not AA.
Please post about YOUR program and method of recovery, without pointing fingers or criticizing anyone else's program. Keep any and all personal comments to PMs.
I agree with Dee...I am SO tired of this endless, pointless debate of AA/not AA.
Please post about YOUR program and method of recovery, without pointing fingers or criticizing anyone else's program. Keep any and all personal comments to PMs.
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