coffeenut

6 months! Awesome, Femme...as is this thread.

I'm not religious...but the longer I am sober, I find the more spiritual I have become, if that makes any sense at all.

In the early days I read every single thing I could find on addiction. Now, SR is my AA.

invisigoth

That whole higher power thing is one of the main reasons I won't go to AA. I consider myself agnostic. No offense to anybodys beliefs but for me I can't replace one crutch with another.

SSIL75

I do believe in a higher power of some description but I don't believe it has any place in my recovery (nor do I do much with it in my daily life. It's just sort of 'there').

I have a very kind of literal view of my addiction and my recovery. I drank because I wanted to. I quit because I wanted to (when the bad finally outweighed the good. And I recognized that 'good' had become a highly subjective, distorted thing). Nothing mystical about it.

Triskal

LaFemme,
I stayed sober without AA for 13 yrs., basically I went to Church, and was active in it (part of the worship team), it was my stupidity that got me to drink again, while I was in treatment/rehab it was all AA, but I found it very secularized, God was mostly just a higher power,this one guys HP was a paper clip, but like Unintoxicated said, I too could relate better to the secular crowd, while I was in the band at church, they couldn't understand addiction at all, I didnt grow up with a Bible in my hand, way far from it. The farther I got away from living for God the closer I got to alcohol, but thats just me..

least

I started out in AA but don't 'do' it much anymore except for occasional home group meetings cause I enjoy the discussion topics and the input, but it's more of a social thing for me as I don't have a sponsor and don't work the steps.

I was raised religious and still follow it, but with subtle personal changes. I belong to a very progressive presbyterian church but don't mix my religion and my recovery, except for thanking God for my blessings, and one of those blessings is living sober and liking it.

I'm staying sober with gratitude, weekly counseling, and this site. So add me to your list.

LaFemme

Shoot...I just finished a long post and got disconnected

Thanks for the thoughtful and interesting replies...but then I would expect nothing less from this crowd

Untoxicated congrats on 90 days...yeah you!

Cabledude...is dope the same thing as pot? Just curious...I don't know much drug jargon....the good folks down in the secular forum don't smoke pot to the best of my knowledge.

Mark...I will agree that what I am doing is similar to the concept of AA in that it recognizes that a whole life change needs to occur in order to be a person who is not only sober but who enjoys their sobriety. Add to that my SR support group which is sort of like going to meetings where I differ though would be in the actual steps...id be happy to pm you if you are interested but would rather not debate various steps here. Suffice it to say I disagree with most of them...sorry

Least...your church sounds great...I have been looking for a church I would enjoy for 2 years...I went to an awesome one in DC and everyone pales in comparison. of course I was drinking heavily when I went to that church...go figure?

jamdls

Congratulations on 6 months LF!!!
I was raised a Catholic went to Catholic school abided by all the rules even contemplated being a nun....then I rebelled and joined other churches in my adult life...then I lost interest in any organized religion...my faith and trust in God never faltered just my faith and trust in religion was lost. I have been in recovery for 3.5 yrs and haven't used any formal program. I went to 5-6 AA meetings but as with my objection to organized religion I was opposed to the rituals/mantras in AA, I'm not condemning AA any more than I would condemn religion both are just not for me, both work wonderfully for many people just not for everyone. I have incorporated my own modified version of some of the 12 steps into my recovery. I've always prayed and always thanked God for keeping me alive especially when my drinking or acts I did while intoxicated should have killed me, I have no doubt that God watches over me. My last drunk involved a prescription drug overdose that should have killed me based on the amount of drugs I swallowed, I believe God said “no, you are not worthy to come to my kingdom” (or something to that effect) and I was given another chance to live and be worthy, I now believe I’m ‘worthy’ that all is forgiven. Prayer, reading the bible and other faith based books have played a huge part in my recovery; and although I don’t actually “work” at recovery anymore (other than SR) prayer and my faith continue to play a major role in my life as they have most of my life.

LaFemme

Thanks Judy! Your story is always such an inspiration to me:-)

Corri

Somebody mentioned staying away from AA because of the Higher Power association with it. It's a part of AA that can be greatly misunderstood. Actually, my kids asked me at dinner last night if I was now way into God because that's what you have to do in AA... let God take over. (That had to come from their dad, who, like many (me being one of them at one time), operate on preconceived notions of what AA is or isn't).

I think the Higher Power part of AA will take on more or less importance depending upon what part of the world you live, or what part of the U.S. you live (i.e., bible belt as opposed to some other part). I've also heard from fellow AA members that even the individual meetings will vary greatly.

I live in a college town and feel quite fortunate that there are so many meetings one can attend, and that the general 'feel' of any group is more of 'have an open mind.' You can call 'having an open mind' whatever you want. They don't care in the least, as long as it works for you (the individual).

I've had a few of my fellow AA members really come on strong to me about God (a version of Him from the Bible, I would suppose). When that happens, I feel it is my time to practice my compassion and tolerance. I don't need anyone to approve of what I practice/believe spiritually. They are just individuals, like me, with their own beliefs. It's cool.

To anyone I would say... do whatever works for you. I'd also ask anyone who has not tried AA yet for whatever reason... don't knock it 'til you try it for yourself. Your direct experience will be all the information you need, whether to continue or not. Higher Power or no Higher Power.

ADDITION:

I do think support from people who have similar experiences, etc., is crucial to any recovery. Whether you get that here, with friends, in a meeting... whatever or wherever... do whatever works for you.

And really, at the end of the day, Higher Power or no Higher Power, you are left with yourself. You know what you are or are not doing. I think the most crucial part of AA is the willingness to be vigorously honest with YOURSELF. Other people of similar ilk tend to help us with that when we struggle to do it ourselves. That, to me... is the power beyond myself, at its most simple.

Supercrew

Congrats on 6 months LaFemme!!

As far as the contention that you should go to the SR Secular group and see how many people who have over 5 years sobriety and compare to I guess the AA success rate???

Cabledude, I think we have stated it before..... it's not a contest. It's how to live a happy, sober life. If AA works for you, great!! In my opinion, there is nothing spiritual or magical about getting sober and being happy, but if you feel that you need steps, and Gods, and spirituality to be sober and happy about it, more power to you! Whatever gets you healthy happy and sober should be the path you choose.

(What are you talking about when you say the "dope thing")?

misamisa

Lafemme, like you I have a relationship with God but have chosen to look beyond AA for my recovery from alcoholism.

I tried AA for several months last year and found that I disagreed, on a gut level, with the programs idea of how God works. The idea that God would remove my obsession with alcohol and my personality defects if I "surrendered" and wanted them gone badly enough struck me as false. I don't believe God operates in that sort of an "if..... then" manner. IF you surrender THEN I will remove your problem.

What I do believe is that God has given me the strength and the tools not to drink if I will only use them.

I believe that God wants me to help myself.

Anna

I am a believer who is not in a formal group.

I rebelled against organized religion and gave up on god because of circumstances in my life. But, I knew instinctively, when I stopped drinking that I needed to reconnect with my spiritual self. And, I did. For me, I might use the term god, but I think it would be more meaningful to say the Universe. I have faith in the universe.

My first three years of recovery were on my own completely and I learned a lot from books and people that I met. After that, I found SR, and have been here for about 7 1/2 years, daily, and it has been my lifeline. I have faith that people come into my life to teach me things, just when I need them. This has been proved to me numerous times in my recovery and it always gives me hope.

LaFemme

Thanks Anna...I was never really sure how the whole God thing fit with you

Thanks misamisa...I agree with your post Welcome to SR!

Supercrew...I completely agree...whatever works is good with me... I know my approach is most similar to the folks down on the Secular Forum...I was mostly wondering who else approached recovery in a non-traditional manner but still did so while believing in God...and by God I kind of meant God as opposed to the whole Higher Power concept which quite frankly confuses me in some of it's interpretations...LOL:-)

recycle

Misamisa, I find that this misconception of the steps is common, my agnostic self stumbled here too. The result of the steps is a spiritual awakening not sobriety. It is important for me not read more into the steps than is there. Yes I became willing for have my defects of character and the obsession to drink removed. Nowhere in the BB does it say that God will do either of these things. The asking and being willing are the steps…

It is easy for me to confuse content and form: If my intention is correct, asking induces humility, and being willing induces change. Both are necessary for a radical transformation. Once I understood this, the “higher power of my understanding” began to make more sense. The content of God can be a doorknob, if the form of being willing to be something else other than a drunk is humble and sincere.

LaFemme nice thread as usual. I am glad to see your radical transformation is proceeding nicely. I think it is really cool that so many with faith have found sobriety without a map:

“I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or coerce people along any particular path. If you first understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organize a belief. A belief is purely an individual matter, and you cannot and must not organize it. If you do, it becomes dead, crystallized; it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others.”

Jiddu Krishanmurti 1929

Supercrew

I understand what you were looking for LF, and I wasn't going to post in this thread, because I don't fall in to the category you were looking for. But I felt the need to chime in after people wanting to make a contest out of it.....plus I'm in a confrontational mood right now.....day 3 without nicotine...but it's getting a little better....I think.... Lets put it this way...don't **** me off or get in my way today!! I think I need to hit the gym to lose some of this aggression asap!

MaryAnn100

La Femme, well done on the six months, from the moment I read your first posts I said this woman will do it, she'll get sober.

Untoxicated - congrats to you too on your 90 days

Ok God and recovery - I was raised a catholic and even at 13 challenged the whole virgin birth thing with my Religion teacher. Thinking of something here too - Holy Mary walked by a group of girls she had schooled with and had Baby Jesus in her arms - one of her school friends says in a stage whisper - "Virgin my ass - I knew her in high school!"

Anyhoo, I became a die-hard agnostic in my late teens and twenties - still hedged my bets and had my first born baptised and when asked did I reject Satan - said yes with mucho gusto as I'm not sold on Bielsibob's philosophy lol.

I got God back in my life in my early thirties after a case of the DT's which scared the bejaysus out of me. Never went to rehab or AA, just picked up drinking again but still kept God in my life.

Fast forward a few years, I had done a geographic, some evenings sitting alone I would have a bottle of rum in one hand, a joint in my mouth and the bible in the other hand. God was not keeping me sober. I have to say I'm with Dee on the mountain and shovel attitude of God. Lurrrrved that btw Dee.

The zealous religous members of AA scared me in the beginning. Reminded of a bumper sticker - I'm not a religous nut, I'm looking for spiritual fruits - I have never taken kindly to folk shoving religion on people whether they are alkies or not.

A HP is many things and that is the wonder of it.

AA is not the ultimate answer to sobriety, even by their own statistics, they estimate 2 million members. In the big book they even say they have a 60% sucess rate.

The 12 steps have a lot of psychology in them and do not have to be interpreted solely with God as the answer. My addiction counsellor said that about the steps and psychology btw.

Having said that I love the spirituality and fellowship that one finds in a good AA meeting. And I attend AA but not religiously - pun intended.

I ask God for many things - not just sobriety.

Anyhoooooo, thanks for letting me share.

LaFemme

See this is actually one of my big stumbling blocks...God is not a doorknob (at least to me)...trust me, I might be crazy but I've never had a conversation with a doorknob (even when drunk off my a$$)

I also am not sure where I fall on the humility idea...one of my radical transformations is to not be so humble, you see it's been hurting me my whole life. And I kind of subscribe to the concept that God does not want us to hide our light under a bushel. But that's just me

Supercrew, Congrats on 3 days without the cig's...I'll make sure to stay out of your way

AFI - Thanks for your post. Interesting aside, I have no problem accepting the virgin birth, but that's just me I used to read the bible with a big glass of vino at hand...I used to bargain with God that if I read enough of it he would save me...didn't work out exactly that way.

OK...gotta go find some dope

Supercrew

Cigarettes are easy LF, now chewing tobacco....well not so much.

ReadyAndAble

Supercrew, I like what you said about there being no contest. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. It's the destination that matters, not the mode of transportation.

But maybe that's just the dope talking. (Only a joke, Cabledude!)

Congrats on 6 months, LF!

LaFemme

Oh right Supercrew...I knew that...I think I still miss the cig's myself so when the word nicotine pops up I think...cigarettes! Luckily I can still partake in second hand smoke...lol...there are plenty of sidewalk smokers in NYC, so I just take a nice deep breath as I walk by! Second hand chew, probably not as appealing....bleech!

BTW, just to be clear, I had hoped to see who else was out there who was a believer in God but was pursuing sobriety in an alternate way...to each their own path and what works for one, doesn't necessarily work for another and all that