Notices

God and non-traditional recovery

Old 01-14-2011, 04:33 PM
  # 81 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: AA Rooms
Posts: 268
@ Binderdondat - hi - love the fish and starbucks analogy, :rotfxko.

Just one point I wanted to pick on - we are not the only animal that combines info and so forth.......animal species have physically evolved to adapt to an environment using information info gathered and combined.

I do not buy into man evolving from apes into computer nerds tho!!!
MaryAnn100 is offline  
Old 01-14-2011, 05:00 PM
  # 82 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: AA Rooms
Posts: 268
Love on 2 Legs - congratulations on your almost year!
MaryAnn100 is offline  
Old 01-14-2011, 08:34 PM
  # 83 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Upstate NY, in the Adirondacks
Posts: 232
Hi,
I believe in God, but AA did not work for me. I use Women for Sobriety, very positive and uplifting for women, puts the choice in my hands, with some help from God, in my case. Actually, I think it is a miracle that I stopped drinking and haven't looked back, so I do believe I am a miracle, but my program helps me a lot, too. Plus, I have sober friends I can run to when upset or uncertain, and I have a lot of wonderful new passions: painting, pottery, quilting and mosaics. I needed to fill the hole alcohol left,
Peace,
Nancy
Day 157
nancylee is offline  
Old 01-16-2011, 01:08 PM
  # 84 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 587
I believe in a higher power, but I am not in AA or any program, my support network is SR and ym cats, lol. I was educated roman catholic, however my parents never went to church. They sent me though. Along my way I realized that most of the peopel in church have double standards. I started to realize that in my opinion (again thats how I feel just want to emphasize that) religion and god are used way to much to manipulate and control people and tell them what they are allowed to do or not. If you do this you will go to hell, but if you do this you will go to heaven.
I believe there is a higher power, which could be god, that guides us and I believe it is loving us and helping us. I believe the HP gives us tasks it knows we can do and we learn and grow. I also believe that we have free will to accept and that we can choose what we want to do, that the HP is there waiting for us to recognize what needs to be done. And I believe in the basics of cristianity as I understand them that you should help people and animals and treat them as you want to be treated. You should give love every day and support and assist others... When you open your heart to others you will get love, peace and joy in return from the universe.
SASA is offline  
Old 01-16-2011, 01:28 PM
  # 85 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 75
I am an athiest. I haven't ruled out AA but I am not sure how the God-talk would bother me. Or if it would at all. I was raised Catholic, the notion of "God" is nothing new to me. I honestly don't know if it would bother me or not. It would irritate me at the least.
Shevrard is offline  
Old 01-16-2011, 02:36 PM
  # 86 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 3
LaFemme, thank you for posting this and congrats to you on your 6mos. I'm not a christian by any means, but the higher power/God thing has never bothered me. I am also not anti-AA. But I've been looking at my alcoholism straight in the face for a little while now and there is no doubt in my mind that I can continue on this way any further.

I am also no stranger to AA. I've built up years in "the rooms" on a couple of occassions; working the program pretty dilegently, as well as sponsoring others. Basically doing everything that was "suggested" to me.

When I first started going, I was actually really excited about it being a spiritual program. But on the other hand, the more I came around, the more things about it didn't sit right with me. I'm not saying that It doesn't work, just maybe that It's not for me.

I hit a few meetings around the holidays and was quickly reminded why I stopped going. And this could be just the AA in my town. When I'm in big cities I have a blast going to meetings and doing all of the young people things and what not.

SO, and sorry for the ramblings, I need to clean up. The alcoholic life sucks. In my opinion the alcoholics anonymous life also sucks (to me). It's like that South Park episode where there was a presidential election where you had to choose between the big turd and the giant douche as candidates. I refuse to believe that these are the only 2 options for my life.

Towards the end of my last stint in AA, I wanted to see what it was about it that was working for me. I think, for me, it came down to being held accountable and filling up my time doing AA things.

WHICH IS MY PROBLEM NOW.

I know It comes down to me, I'm either going to pick up or I'm not. I think having some sort of spiritual connection- whether It's with a higher power or even your core-self, nature, etc. is crucial to me.

But what about the obsession? I'm not going to quickly claim that in the past it was God who removed this obsession. I'd say that in meetings (group think), but I honestly don't know?

I guess all and all, I'm looking for some tips to stay sober in the beginning here. I went a little over a week here recently, but all it took was a friend asking me to go grab some lunch at a place where I enjoyed their beers. Had a couple, but then I was off and running.

If anyone has any tips for me, whether spiritual or not, It'd be greatly appreciated. Thank you..
jj82 is offline  
Old 01-16-2011, 03:09 PM
  # 87 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 270
JJ, my suggestion would be to look your problem squarely in the face again, and fish around for a solution to your alcoholism that feels right, since AA didn't feel right to you.

For now feel your way around some other programs and get a sense of how they feel to your feelings.
cabledude is offline  
Old 01-16-2011, 03:11 PM
  # 88 (permalink)  
Member
 
littlefish's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
I'm chiming in her rather late, but here goes.
This is a great topic and congrats Lafemme on six months! Wow!

It's undeniable that AA had it's origins in a Christian group, the Oxford group But, it is interesting to note that the Oxford group was formed as a protest and a reaction to organized Christian churches. One of the tenants of the Oxford group was picked up by Bill W: and that was the emphasis on an individual path to spiritual awakening, rather than being guided on that path by organized religion. The Oxford group was very much a critic of organized religion.

From Wikipedia:
"Wilson later acknowledged, "The early AA got its ideas of self-examination, acknowledgment of character defects, restitution for harm done and working with others straight from the Oxford Group and directly from Sam Shoemaker, their former leader in America, and from nowhere else."

I am always intrigued by this because my experience with organized religion in the Catholic Church was that I didn't have to make any restitution for harm done, I just had to go to confession. There is something revolutionary about the ideas of examining character defects, making restitution and being of service to others. It is a very different idea than I got in the RCC.

Because the Oxford group was formed in negative reaction to organized Christianity, and because it's ideas were the groundwork for many of the 12 steps, it really can't be claimed that AA has it's basis in Christianity. Part of the reason for that is that there are so many alcoholics who aren't Christian, and who find a place in AA:

I went into AA as a thoroughly disenchanted Roman Catholic with massive criticisms of my church. In AA I found that only one religious concept is endorsed: and that is finding a path to a higher power. That is endorsed in most of the worlds largest religions so I don't think that can be claimed as a Christian idea exclusively.
littlefish is offline  
Old 01-16-2011, 03:29 PM
  # 89 (permalink)  
Administrator
 
Dee74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,043
Welcome JJ

You find a lot of help and support here, Feel free to start your own thread too - you'll get more responses that way

D
Dee74 is offline  
Old 01-16-2011, 04:32 PM
  # 90 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 3
Thanks! The only reason why I posted here is because I thought it was cool that there were people staying sober "alternatively" who aren't hardcore athiests or hardcore anti-AA people (All of which is understandable and cool with me, just rare to see).
jj82 is offline  
Old 01-16-2011, 05:45 PM
  # 91 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
LaFemme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Hi JJ and welcome to SR!

I'm so glad you saw my thread and it spoke to you in some way. I sometimes feel like if you believe in God then AA is your expected path...which is why I started it...to see who else on SR was like me I was surprised how many there were...and how many had solid happy recovery!

Dee is right though...you will get more responses to your questions if you start your own thread especially as an introduction. This thread is probably nearing the end of its life anyway
LaFemme is offline  
Old 01-17-2011, 03:18 PM
  # 92 (permalink)  
Re-Member
 
Itchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 7,583
LaFemme!
Dang you struck a chord with this thread. I haven't checked back in a couple of days and just now saw your response to my post a zillion posts ago.

I was jesting when I said that religion is inherited, you get it from your parents. It was a quote that I can't find the author of for attribution.

I believe in a higher power. My higher power has some attributes that are present in every religion but not all of any. The most important attribute that it does not have is the exclusionary clause, stating that all who do not believe as I do are going to hell, therefore it is not just OK, but my duty to bring my beliefs to the unenlightened, and if necessary kill them as a way of saving them from hell, and thus conveniently removing them from the resistors to my way.

Back to the topic. AA has sound psychology with their 12 steps. Having a sponsor can be equated with confession (Which it is definitely not) which is good for the soul, and here on SR we tell our stories many times things that no one knows all of from our drinking, same catharsis, different methodology.

I think that is what people are trying to say when they say that they too thought that AA was religious or about a strict definition of a higher power after going through the 12 steps.

I have not been to every AA meeting ever held but I sincerely doubt that anybody ever actually believed in a doorknob as a higher power. <wink>
Itchy is offline  
Old 01-17-2011, 08:40 PM
  # 93 (permalink)  
Member
 
wpainterw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
LaFemme:
As you may know, I'm not an atheist or agnostic but I'm also not a churchgoer, having found that church services often leave me feeling quite uncomfortable. So I guess you could say that I'm a loner. But I also found, after forty years of trying to quit on my own that I simply could not make it stick. It was only when I got into a group that I had some success. it happened to be an AA agnostics group. I had a lot of misgivings about AA and found it very difficult to attend conventional meetings. And I must say that today after 22 years of recovery, I rarely go even to an agnostics meeting.
So what I can say is that I didn't manage to get sustained recovery until I got into a group. I'm lucky that I found one that seemed to be O.K. for me. Maybe other folks can get long term sobriety on their own, that is without joining a group. Just because I couldn't doesn't mean that it can't be done. But if someone were to ask, I'd say, "Since it's such a very dangerous and serious illness, and since the stakes are so high, maybe its best to be on the safe side and try some kind of a group, if not AA then something else. It doesn't have to be God related, It can be Recovering Dog Lovers, Horse Lovers, Cat Lovers. Just so it's a group. It doesn't have to be spiritual, but some folks say that if it is this can help."

W.

Last edited by wpainterw; 01-17-2011 at 08:41 PM. Reason: typo
wpainterw is offline  
Old 01-18-2011, 08:09 AM
  # 94 (permalink)  
member
 
Mattcake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,433
I'm late to this - congratulations for your six months, LaFemme.

My relationship with (a) god is a work in progress. After many months of sobriety, this relationship is slowly becoming the core of my recovery.

Due to past bad experiences, I'm adamant about not having an organized institution influencing this budding relationship. This includes AA.

I do respect all religions, and those who believe in them, as long as the respect is mutual. I agree with Mark75, theology is absolutely fascinating IMO one needn't practice a particular faith to appreciate its beauty.
Mattcake is offline  
Old 01-18-2011, 08:56 AM
  # 95 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
LaFemme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Matt...that's really cool I actually think it's because I don't want anything interfering with my relationship with God that I hesitate to go the AA route...it also might explain my ambivalence about going to Church...I've only found 2 Churches that I actually enjoyed going to and felt bolstered my relationship rather than hindered it.
LaFemme is offline  
Old 01-18-2011, 09:20 AM
  # 96 (permalink)  
member
 
Mattcake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,433
Originally Posted by LaFemme View Post
Matt...that's really cool I actually think it's because I don't want anything interfering with my relationship with God that I hesitate to go the AA route...it also might explain my ambivalence about going to Church...I've only found 2 Churches that I actually enjoyed going to and felt bolstered my relationship rather than hindered it.
I can totally get the ambivalence thing. I've ranted about the effects of my religious upbringing in another subforum. I've since declared a truce. It's ironic though, during the (still ongoing) process of letting go of my resentments, I have experienced some really nice moments within the framework of certain religions (I won't mention which ones ;-) )

A couple of months ago, my friend gently encouraged me to "test the waters" again... I wound up finding a lot of comfort in a chapel near my place, contemplating a statue of the Virgin Mary. My forays into certain temples allowed me to meditate for hours, in the company of others, and it was amazing. So...pure ambivalence, lol.

Anyway, regarding AA, I think that it's potentially a life-changing philosophy and experience. I mean, there are so many miracles right here in SR Maybe someday.. not right now, though, but it's not like I'm writing it off.

There's no one size fits all, but hopefully we'll all be able to find out true paths in recovery.

Mattcake is offline  
Old 01-18-2011, 09:23 AM
  # 97 (permalink)  
Member
 
wpainterw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
LaFemme:
I forgot to congratulate you on your six months. Nice going. As for church, I confess a liking for some of the hymns in the Episcopal Church but am so put off by all the vestments and ritual that I rarely attend. There are some words in the prayer book which are eloquent. Apart from that I have always admired the enthusiasm and good nature evident in many of the Afro American churches. I sense that if Christ were to return he might be drawn to those folks. The same for the Native Americans.
Incidentally that's a good looking horse on your avatar. I have always liked horses but have for the most part remained in the company of dogs.

W.
wpainterw is offline  
Old 01-18-2011, 09:30 AM
  # 98 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
LaFemme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
LOL...the churches I have liked had "contemporary Christian music"...and what I disliked about those churches is that they eschew ritual which I actually like

The painting in my Avatar is my late great horse, Bradley...he was the love of my life and I always say he raised me...he was with me 20 years and I still miss him everyday. So anytime anyone compliments him it makes me happy, he was a great soul.

Mattcake...my favorite places in the world are churches (I feel like I can reach out and touch God at St. John the Divine in Harlem), it's the priests I generally have a problem with!
LaFemme is offline  
Old 01-18-2011, 09:52 AM
  # 99 (permalink)  
ste
unlearning
 
ste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: russia
Posts: 343
I believe my conscience (God given, HP given, innate given at birth, my inner voice?) is my guide (as espoused in my thread "To relapse or not to relapse"). I can argue with it, but I know it is right.
Religion, philosophy, the path, the way, how to do it, are all personal and different for each of us. Sometimes an organization can explain, or better, reinforce what we believe
If you don't have synergy with this AA group, try another if you so desire. If you don't find answers or comfort at that church, try another, or even another religion. People can convolute anything. Believe in yourself and what is best for you. Six months on your own? Excellent! I think anyone would tell you keep up the good work.
ste is offline  
Old 01-18-2011, 10:00 AM
  # 100 (permalink)  
Member
 
Mark75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
I like CS Lewis and Thomas Merton... If you haven't checked them out, do so... I am starting "Mere Christianity" and it's, well, profound...
Mark75 is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:47 AM.