celticfire78

To clear a few things up:

My sponsor and I actually talked in great length about this issue, long before I decided to start posting on this forum. I've also sought to get the opinions of people in recovery that I know in person.... as she had suggested.

I've had NA drinks before being in recovery- and never as a means to substitute for the real thing, purely out of curiosity. None have ever made me pine for the real thing. So, when I went after that bottle of NA Chard the other night, I knew that it wasn't gonna set me drunk or even buzzed. I was after it for the taste, not the effect. If I was after the effect, I probably woulda just gone out and bought the real thing.

Maybe a little too early in my sobriety to start drinking NA stuff, but no real harm was done, I think. Down the road, so as long as it doesn't trigger the real thing, I agree with what others have said about being able to have an NA beer or whatnot in moderation, in certain social situations.

Toronto68

Celtic, but why is the smell of the wine under your nose that important? I wonder if being appreciative of that smell that is reminiscent of the "real wine," with potency to it, is leaving the door open? I only liked the smell of wine or other things after I knew what drinking alcohol did. Mind you, we all have our preferences, scents included.

Still, happy to hear things are going well with quitting and the program, etc.

celticfire78

Because for roughly ten years or so, I actually DID drink like a normal person. There was a time when drinking WAS a pleasant thing, and wine tasting was about the smell, taste, color; etc. I guess I miss those days.

December15

Really crazy that your sponsor has suggested you reset your sobriety date. It is a dangerous thing to say as it could tempt you to have a binge since you have "supposedly" lost your sober time and might as well have a fling with danger before having another go. You drank NA wine. You did not get high so there is no need to reset your sober date - end of story. By the way - if your sponsor was sucking on a cigarette when you suggested this, he is the ultimate hypocrite. I would dump your sponsor to be honest.

sailorjohn

The thing on the bottom was what you wrote in an earlier post in this thread.

I don't drink NA beer, I discovered before I stopped drinking, that I didn't care for the taste of beer minus the alcohol, having served as a designated driver for a lengthy drive/barhop, my consumption was limited to NA beer.

Aside from the fact that it was just as expensive as real beer.

Toward the end of my drinking career, developed a taste for Bloody Mary's, especially the spicy kind, with pepper. Something we would drink at 8am after overnight races.

I like an occasional spicy V8, but I don't think it's same thing.

celticfire78

LMAO!!!! My sponsor WAS smoking a ciggy when suggesting this.... how'd you know??

celticfire78

It's also interesting to note, that my sponsor has argued in favor of other addictions "not being as bad as alcoholism, because you can't get a DUI while smoking a cigarette, or over-indulging in too much chocolate to curb your craving". Yeah, well, that may all be good and true, but if you're transitioning your addiction from one thing to another, then you haven't dealt with the underlying issues that surround addiction in the first place. She can't seem to get that.

Mark75

Well, I still don't believe you have to reset your sobriety date, but I am somewhat concerned that you will be soon anyway.

This is not meant to somehow flame or insult you. We are all on the same road of recovery... Why the search for reasons why your sponsor is wrong?

I have learned something in this thread... Thank you

Mark

December15

Most alcoholics I know also smoke. Smoking is far more harmful than drinking NA beer or wine, lol. I'm sure most doctors would say the same.

Mark75

Depends, I think, on the situation. Don't you?

boudiepitbull

Romancing the experience of pouring yourself a glass of NA wine and savoring the bouquet and flavor with every sip as if it was the real thing is creating a H-U-G-E reservation for relapse. Then deciding to listen to that little voice in your head say, "Hey, maybe I don't have a problem at all. Maybe I never did." just screams of your disease trying to get out and take back control of your life. Only you know what's right and if you end up going out because of bad choices at least know the program will still be here for you when you get back.

Mark75

you nailed there pitbull.

justbrian

Hmmm...let's see. When I put my hand over this gas stove, I always got burned. I'll probably be okay if I stick to only placing my hand on this electric stove over here.

Reset your sobriety date or don't, that's something only you can decide for yourself. My sobriety date is today, starting the moment I got out of bed. I could care less about yesterday, or last week, or last year. I use the past to learn from my mistakes, not remember (romance) what it was like to drink normally. I choose to stay away from ANY form of alcohol, however small the amount. Today I AM NOT WILLING TO RISK IT!!! The craving for me was long ago removed, but the thing that lives between my ears still "has to wonder sometimes".

I've had this discussion with new comers before, and all I can say to them is the choice is theirs, because I find that most of the time they're gonna do what they want anyway.

Enjoy your grape juice.

Brian

BTW, today I am grateful that It was powerlessness over alcohol. That means I'm not a "morally corrupt" person.

Toronto68

Celtic, I don't really know how to answer you on this idea of being a normal drinker for 10 years, before your problem was evident. My problem was evident in 1996. Before that I drank more like a partier, seemingly more normal back then, because there was more than alcohol to life. I wouldn't have been able to revert to that person in the 90s. That person would only restart the journey anyway, only much more quickly. In fact, I noticed in 1996 that I had gone from rarely having alcohol in 1995 to every day in 1996, after a relocation. The difference was like going from a quiet stream to a loud waterfall. I moderated the situation during another relocation in 2002 and then once I had everything all lined up, I dropped down the Falls again. People aren't exactly the same, but I am skeptical when I hear you talk about the decade of being a normal person. I'm stuck with the beauty I've got now, the other person is gone and was really an evolving person with a problem to begin with. It just didn't manifest itself in an everyday frequency, it was in its adolescence. That's how alcoholism works to me.

For December15, sorry, I don't go along with the counter-indictment on the smoking. Smoking is a companion substance for many drinkers, but keeping up with the smoking is not the same as keeping up with the drinking in my case, there is a huge divide there.

getr345

NA wine is literally just unfermented grape juice. I tried it once and it stinks, did not even finish the glass; buy Welches you'll enjoy it more and pay less. NA beer on the other hand is a different story. This IS beer and tastes like beer, because really that's what it is just with 99.5% of the alcohol removed. I personally enjoy an o'Douls from time to time (with pizza or BBQ for example) with no ill effect and I do not not consider it a threat to or a break of my sobriety. In fact, I'm grateful it exists as an alternative to a life lived without ever enjoying the simple pleasure of beer again. I have found that I can live without alcohol but that I do not choose to live without an occasional glass of NA beer and with o'Douls I can do that. But that's just me, and when it comes to NA beverages only YOU can decide if it's OK for you.

celticfire78

Yeah, well it's interesting to note that tobacco can cause more health problems than drinking and using illicit drugs combined. One can also experience "withdraw" from tobacco.

I also personally know several folks who never even took up smoking until they stopped drinking- so, they were, as I said, transitioning from one addiction to another, never dealing with the underlying issues that foster addiction in the first place. I know that for myself, when I started to really explore the reasons why my drinking got so out of control in the first place, and dealt with THOSE issues, the urge to drink at all left me.

And yes, I like the taste and aromas of wine. Lots of folks do, and plenty who don't have a problem with alcohol. I stopped drinking mostly because I was sick and tired of being sick and tired- I grew out of it. I have no desire today to pick up anything that will so much as give me a light beer buzz.

Saphie

I've just been reading every post in this thread.
I've never been a beer drinker and I really don't like NA wine (someone mentioned fruit juice and I totally agree).
Suddenly the strangest question popped into my head:
If NA Vodka and NA Whiskey was available, what would that do to our sobriety?
I don't know about you, but the thought certainly scares me. I don't think I'd have a chance after that.

Mark75

Smoking is not healthful... No argument there.

Alcoholism destroys marriages and whole families, wrecks careers, kills innocent bystanders with DUI, drives people crazy....

Cigarettes are lightweight when compared to alcohol, especially when you look at the collateral damage it causes.

That one would disqualify a sponsor who expresses concern about a newly sober person drinking NA beverages for seemingly all the wrong reasons and with virtually no insight on the issue... because said sponsor smokes... leaves me wondering.

justbrian

I agree Mark. I've spent my time behind bars and never once met someone who was there for a "smoking while driving" charge. Not once have I heard of someone killed by a smoking driver. Yes, I'm a smoker. For me it's about the lesser of 2 evils. There is a very good chance that my smoking will kill me, but it will NEVER leave me with the consequences that getting drunk did. I would never rob or steal for smoke money. For me, it's about placing things in perspective, and finding some balance. I guess smoking is one of those character defects that I hang on too. I must remember that it's about progress, not perfection, and if smoking happens to be the end of me, at least I will be able to look at my wife and kids through sober eyes.

I gotta tell myself, "keep it simple Brian"

Brian

getr345

Collateral damage?

2nd hand cigarette smoke kills thousands of innocent people every year.

I wonder if they and their families see it as the lesser of two evils, or some other cliche that coldly serves to justify smoking as an acceptable alternative to what I'm not exactly sure of...

Real sobriety?

True recovery?

Freedom from addiction?