View Poll Results: Your opinion in regards to being "Clean" or "Sober".
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Clean&Sober_Poll
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Originally Posted by andyaddict 
Really?!?
You've never came across someone new with arrows sticking out of their azz, hurting like he11, on FIRE for their recovery, and willing to go to ANY length for their recovery?
You've never witnessed someone coming in being brutally honest about themselves as compared to others, not concerned with telling ANYONE else how to do it, and seeking to understand rather than be understood?
How about someone willing to take suggestion, a living example of humility, open-minded, and itching to help out either setting up before or cleaning up after the meeting?
I've seen it, however it's sad when this enthusiasm gets lost after they get a couple things working back in their lives - car, job, girl(boy)friend.
a
You've never came across someone new with arrows sticking out of their azz, hurting like he11, on FIRE for their recovery, and willing to go to ANY length for their recovery?
You've never witnessed someone coming in being brutally honest about themselves as compared to others, not concerned with telling ANYONE else how to do it, and seeking to understand rather than be understood?
How about someone willing to take suggestion, a living example of humility, open-minded, and itching to help out either setting up before or cleaning up after the meeting?
I've seen it, however it's sad when this enthusiasm gets lost after they get a couple things working back in their lives - car, job, girl(boy)friend.
a
Foxhole Sobriety
Karma Amputee
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Among The Living
Posts: 769
RE: 17 Days vs 17 years, I will say there is something very special about that period of very early sobriety; especially if it's your first time, like anything that's new and is being experienced for the first time. Emotions running high, feeling are being felt, expressing ones self so openly, the sensation of accomplishment, it's hard to put my finger on it but sometimes I miss that feeling a little and I think that's another reason people are drawn to newcomers, it's a way of living through them without actually having to live it yourself. I will always cherish my very early sobriety from alcohol for so many reasons, it was the start of my re-awaking and ultimately my rebirth as a living, feeling human being.
Attitude of Gratitude
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 2,305
WOW! This thread sure has went every which way, hasn't it? Good discussions though.
My Program of Recovery is getting up in the morning and reading the day's meditation in "Just For Today" Then I have my morning "talk" with God, who is my Higher Power. I ask Him to help me not only stay clean and sober throughout the day, but also to do the next best right thing. Throughout my day, I do talk with God quite often, not like the foxhole talks I used to have, "If you help me get out of this, I'll never do such and such again." I also am available 24/7 to someone who needs to talk, who may be having a crisis or wanting to use. Since I've been in Recovery, part of my Program also includes random acts of kindness to strangers. When I was using, I never gave a damn about anyone else except Judy. Everything was me, me, me! Part of my Program is coming on SR to not only share something that may help the Newcomer, but to remind myself that I'm just one bad choice away from a relapse. In the evenings, I read out of my Nightlight Meditation Book. Then, I take the time to thank God for getting me through the day w/out picking up and I thank Him for every single Blessing I have received throughout the day. I recently found a Church where I feel comfortable. I go to Celebrate Recovery there on Thursday Nights and on Tuesday Evenings, I am in a Step Study Program. I am always open to different ways of helping to maintain the Peace and Serenity I have found in my Recovery. I will occassionally go to an AA or NA Meeting as well.
I am living my life to the fullest! Even though I live with severe pain on a daily basis due to several pelvic fractures, Degenerative Disc Disease, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Lupus and Osteoarthritis and Osteoporosis, the pain from these diseases is nothing compared to the pain I experienced during the 32 years I used. If you consider My Program of Recovery baloney,that's your opinion. But My Program of Recovery is obviously working for me because it's kept me Clean & Sober for the past 4.5 years. If hopping on one foot each morning while singing the National Anthem is what keeps someone from picking up, then so be it.
God Bless,
Judy
This is really basically baloney. While I think "working a program" is great for some, living life to the fullest is the goal. For many a program is not needed nor wanted. There are also others so wrapped up in program they forget about fully living life.
I am living my life to the fullest! Even though I live with severe pain on a daily basis due to several pelvic fractures, Degenerative Disc Disease, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Lupus and Osteoarthritis and Osteoporosis, the pain from these diseases is nothing compared to the pain I experienced during the 32 years I used. If you consider My Program of Recovery baloney,that's your opinion. But My Program of Recovery is obviously working for me because it's kept me Clean & Sober for the past 4.5 years. If hopping on one foot each morning while singing the National Anthem is what keeps someone from picking up, then so be it.
God Bless,
Judy
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
Wow this was not my personal experience either!
At 17 days i was confused, frightened, mentally and emotionally beat...i was working on my step 4 which made me sad, angry and made my mind race even more than usual. I found it difficult to get to sleep with all that was going on...
I wouldn't have trusted myself to get a loaf of bread without first running the idea and the plan of action by my sponsor first, i was that scared of myself.
The things i did have, at that time, were HOPE and TRUST...by seeing people that had recovered and led happy, and productive, lives...they told me it was no big deal to get for myself what they had but i would have to do the work. They also told me i knew nothing and, by the time i got in, i totally agreed with them on that point so was like a sponge...which helped a great deal:-) But then again this was nothing to do with me at alll, i was beat and was asking for someone to save my life not to stop drinking, if that makes sense?!
Have i come across many who come into AA and do this in their first weeks...nope...i have seen quite a few come into meetings, learn some lingo and then start giving advice to everyone else though...this is just my experience...and it makes me sad to see then doing this, i do tell them about my experience and hope they get it soon...
At 17 days i was confused, frightened, mentally and emotionally beat...i was working on my step 4 which made me sad, angry and made my mind race even more than usual. I found it difficult to get to sleep with all that was going on...
I wouldn't have trusted myself to get a loaf of bread without first running the idea and the plan of action by my sponsor first, i was that scared of myself.
The things i did have, at that time, were HOPE and TRUST...by seeing people that had recovered and led happy, and productive, lives...they told me it was no big deal to get for myself what they had but i would have to do the work. They also told me i knew nothing and, by the time i got in, i totally agreed with them on that point so was like a sponge...which helped a great deal:-) But then again this was nothing to do with me at alll, i was beat and was asking for someone to save my life not to stop drinking, if that makes sense?!
Have i come across many who come into AA and do this in their first weeks...nope...i have seen quite a few come into meetings, learn some lingo and then start giving advice to everyone else though...this is just my experience...and it makes me sad to see then doing this, i do tell them about my experience and hope they get it soon...
Karma Amputee
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Among The Living
Posts: 769
I know "17 days" was sort of a randomly chosen number but what the heck, I decided to go back and see what I posted on my own Day 17, to see where I was and where my head was at at that VERY early stage...Here is exactly what I wrote on SR that day, spread over three posts, that was Oct 21, 2008...
"Day 17.
Started off annoying because I was pulled over by a State Trooper on my way back the house from Starbucks. My inspection sticker is expired by a few weeks. He gave me a warning but I did not appreciate even that temporary (5 minutes?) limitation of my freedoms.
Last night the wife & I watched a special episode Intervention on TV, the episode focused on updates from people who had been on the show in the past. It was strange watching it with her, I felt different about myself, how I think about myself, and what I have in common with many of the people on the show. The wife watched but made no mention of my situation, drew no parallels, and otherwise did not mention my situation at all.
I feel very alone in what I'm doing.
I understand that she is scared to think of her husband as someone who needs help, or as someone who has lost control in some way, or as an alcoholic. Hell, it's scary for me, and I'm still not really sure how I feel about it, and how I would categorize myself now or in the drinking years. Labels have never really been my things, for now, I categorize myself as someone who drank way too much and needed to stop.
As someone who has found a way to do this and needs support to keep it going and respect for doing it in the first place.
Another random excerpt from my story...
In 1996, while in the service, I was deployed to the Middle East (Egypt) for a year long deployment. Being 12 months in the desert with very little to do beyond your job is very boring and lonely, and there was no shortage of booze on this deployment. In fact, it was a multi-national deployment so every contingent had their own bar on base. So I would generally drink every night, 7 days a week, sometimes in my room by myself, sometimes in the bars. The British bar was the best IMO because they all talked about pints and boxing. That's all there was to do (drink), and that's all anyone did. One night I got so hammered in my room, (drank a whole bottle of gin) when my roommate came home, I had already puked all over the room and was laughing at him while he came in the door to find me lying in my own puke. Good thing we were friends, huh? 10 years later I was the best man in his wedding."
"Day 17.
Started off annoying because I was pulled over by a State Trooper on my way back the house from Starbucks. My inspection sticker is expired by a few weeks. He gave me a warning but I did not appreciate even that temporary (5 minutes?) limitation of my freedoms.
Last night the wife & I watched a special episode Intervention on TV, the episode focused on updates from people who had been on the show in the past. It was strange watching it with her, I felt different about myself, how I think about myself, and what I have in common with many of the people on the show. The wife watched but made no mention of my situation, drew no parallels, and otherwise did not mention my situation at all.
I feel very alone in what I'm doing.
I understand that she is scared to think of her husband as someone who needs help, or as someone who has lost control in some way, or as an alcoholic. Hell, it's scary for me, and I'm still not really sure how I feel about it, and how I would categorize myself now or in the drinking years. Labels have never really been my things, for now, I categorize myself as someone who drank way too much and needed to stop.
As someone who has found a way to do this and needs support to keep it going and respect for doing it in the first place.
Another random excerpt from my story...
In 1996, while in the service, I was deployed to the Middle East (Egypt) for a year long deployment. Being 12 months in the desert with very little to do beyond your job is very boring and lonely, and there was no shortage of booze on this deployment. In fact, it was a multi-national deployment so every contingent had their own bar on base. So I would generally drink every night, 7 days a week, sometimes in my room by myself, sometimes in the bars. The British bar was the best IMO because they all talked about pints and boxing. That's all there was to do (drink), and that's all anyone did. One night I got so hammered in my room, (drank a whole bottle of gin) when my roommate came home, I had already puked all over the room and was laughing at him while he came in the door to find me lying in my own puke. Good thing we were friends, huh? 10 years later I was the best man in his wedding."
blarg
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 17
I believe that being clean & sober means getting rid of every substance which has control over you, whether it's prescribed by an MD or not, and not worrying about the rest.
15 years ago I quit smoking cigarettes because I would get bronchitis every winter and was tired of wheezing and feeling like hell all the time.
I've proven to myself that I can't drink alcohol without slipping steadily more and more out of control. I also have a serious addiction to processed carbs.
As far as other drugs go, and their being prescribed or not, this has been my experience:
amphetamines: i've been on a RX for adderall for years now. I always played games with it so I'd have enough to take more than I should when I wanted/needed to. I have now lost my medical insurance so I'm working off my last refill ... and I am slowly weaning myself off this junk. What I hate about it most is how I get to where I can't imagine having to actually do anything but lay around without taking it.
opiates: I've been prescribed more than I needed many times, and worked the system to get as much as possible for recreational purposes. But I am thankful that, given all my other addictions, this never became one of them. when I finally ran out of whatever it was, no big deal moving on from it.
marijuana: I have smoked on and off since high school, having gone more years without it than with it. I am also thankful that I don't seem to be addicted to this drug either. I keep a small amount on hand that I use to help me relax and go to sleep at night. I was never the "wake and bake" type. When I have tried doing that, I am a useless zombie all day - a feeling I don't like. But without it, I don't sleep as well and therefore wind up feeling worse during the day. I do feel that I can be clean and sober and still use cannabis in this way.
15 years ago I quit smoking cigarettes because I would get bronchitis every winter and was tired of wheezing and feeling like hell all the time.
I've proven to myself that I can't drink alcohol without slipping steadily more and more out of control. I also have a serious addiction to processed carbs.
As far as other drugs go, and their being prescribed or not, this has been my experience:
amphetamines: i've been on a RX for adderall for years now. I always played games with it so I'd have enough to take more than I should when I wanted/needed to. I have now lost my medical insurance so I'm working off my last refill ... and I am slowly weaning myself off this junk. What I hate about it most is how I get to where I can't imagine having to actually do anything but lay around without taking it.
opiates: I've been prescribed more than I needed many times, and worked the system to get as much as possible for recreational purposes. But I am thankful that, given all my other addictions, this never became one of them. when I finally ran out of whatever it was, no big deal moving on from it.
marijuana: I have smoked on and off since high school, having gone more years without it than with it. I am also thankful that I don't seem to be addicted to this drug either. I keep a small amount on hand that I use to help me relax and go to sleep at night. I was never the "wake and bake" type. When I have tried doing that, I am a useless zombie all day - a feeling I don't like. But without it, I don't sleep as well and therefore wind up feeling worse during the day. I do feel that I can be clean and sober and still use cannabis in this way.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
This has been an enlightening thread.
For those that are Clean and Sober, or abstinent from all mood and mind altering drugs, Clean and Sober means just that, abstinent and making lifestyle changes, and the people still drinking and or using, 5% say they can be clean, but still drink, and 5% can be sober, but still drug, so the words clean and sober evidently get changed to fit YOUR program of recovery.
Right on, the truth is I don't care if someone is drinking, or puffin the herbuh, hell every single friend and family member I have is an alcoholic or drug addict, although 95% of my friends are sober now, I have no judgment, hell I LOVE alcoholics, I'd better, since I am one.
However, I have one observation.
I am willing to bet that not ONE person when they looked for recovery sites on Google, and found SoberRecovery dot com on the intranets, read the word Sober in SoberRecovery to mean "not loaded at the moment".
If the people who founded the site meant that, I suspect the title of this site would be "Marijuanamaintenance dot com" or ModerateDrinking dot com or Notloadedatthemoment dot com or SwitchingOneDrugForAnother dot com
But it's not, it's SoberRecovery dot com, I challenge anyone here to say when they saw the name of this website that they thought it meant any of those things.
So that's why, I think in the context of a site dedicated to Recovery from Drug Addiction and Alcoholism the definition of Sober, in a website with Sober in it's name, is abstinence.
Work any program you like, I'm cool with that, I just think it's silly to call it sobriety on a website named SoberRecovery which states:
"Recovery from addiction" isn't the same as "moderation"
So my question is, did even a single person when they came to the site for even the first time think that the word sober in SoberRecovery meant not loaded at the moment or "only drinking a few beers on occasion"
I think people are confusing the words clean and sober in some instances as the moderation plans they themselves are practicing (which quite frankly I don't care about), but knew EXACTLY what the word meant in the title of the web site.
I don't care, just an observation, and it's what I learned from this thread.
For those that are Clean and Sober, or abstinent from all mood and mind altering drugs, Clean and Sober means just that, abstinent and making lifestyle changes, and the people still drinking and or using, 5% say they can be clean, but still drink, and 5% can be sober, but still drug, so the words clean and sober evidently get changed to fit YOUR program of recovery.
Right on, the truth is I don't care if someone is drinking, or puffin the herbuh, hell every single friend and family member I have is an alcoholic or drug addict, although 95% of my friends are sober now, I have no judgment, hell I LOVE alcoholics, I'd better, since I am one.
However, I have one observation.
I am willing to bet that not ONE person when they looked for recovery sites on Google, and found SoberRecovery dot com on the intranets, read the word Sober in SoberRecovery to mean "not loaded at the moment".
If the people who founded the site meant that, I suspect the title of this site would be "Marijuanamaintenance dot com" or ModerateDrinking dot com or Notloadedatthemoment dot com or SwitchingOneDrugForAnother dot com
But it's not, it's SoberRecovery dot com, I challenge anyone here to say when they saw the name of this website that they thought it meant any of those things.
So that's why, I think in the context of a site dedicated to Recovery from Drug Addiction and Alcoholism the definition of Sober, in a website with Sober in it's name, is abstinence.
Work any program you like, I'm cool with that, I just think it's silly to call it sobriety on a website named SoberRecovery which states:
2. Outside Agendas: No posts of an overtly political or religious nature OR posts promoting advocacy of particular personal, medical, legal, religious, political, or non-profit causes. The forums are intended for offering mutual personal support related to recovery from addiction or recovery for family and friends. This is our primary purpose. Debating controversial subjects should be taken elsewhere. Limited references are allowed, but the forums should not be used to convert others. Do not post content or links to and from sites that flame someone's person, religious beliefs, race, national background, sexual orientation, or recovery program/method. It is inappropriate to promote the use of alcohol or drugs on our addiction recovery forums.
Soberrecovery is a forum for those recovering from alcohol and substance abuse addictions and help for family and friends whos lives have been affected by someone else's addiction.
So my question is, did even a single person when they came to the site for even the first time think that the word sober in SoberRecovery meant not loaded at the moment or "only drinking a few beers on occasion"
I think people are confusing the words clean and sober in some instances as the moderation plans they themselves are practicing (which quite frankly I don't care about), but knew EXACTLY what the word meant in the title of the web site.
I don't care, just an observation, and it's what I learned from this thread.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,444
Actually the wonderful thing about SR is that it's open to everyone who thinks they, or a loved one, has a problem and wants to make it better...even the people whose approaches I may not necessarily agree with.
As an alcoholic, I've seen many many posters come here as avowed moderate drinkers who've gone on to voluntarily embrace abstinence.
I'd hate to see it so that people like that no longer felt welcome here.
If we're quoting rules, these are worth repeating
on that note, I think this thread has well and truly run it's course.
Thanks for some food for thought Taz
D
As an alcoholic, I've seen many many posters come here as avowed moderate drinkers who've gone on to voluntarily embrace abstinence.
I'd hate to see it so that people like that no longer felt welcome here.
If we're quoting rules, these are worth repeating
SoberRecovery.com Forums General Principles
Tolerance: Please respect the rights of others to hold beliefs and perspectives, which differ from yours. Our Sober Recovery Forum members are of many nationalities, ages, and cultures. Healthy, vigorous debate will further our goals, but only when guided by the tolerance that springs from mutual embrace of mission.
Intellectual Freedom: Embrace diversity of practice. It is impossible to understand an action without first understanding the actor and their environment. Know that varied environments call for varied response. Your way may not be the best way.
Freedom of Speech: We resist censorship in favor of free speech. Within our forums, we support the broadest range of perspectives and expression, for it is the unification of diversity to cause that gives strength to our community. We are committed to equal opportunity. Influence and responsibility here are inseparable, and both spring solely from a demonstrated commitment to furthering the topics discussed in our forums. Bear in mind, however, that some language and conduct is still considered inappropriate.
Responsible Behavior: Your attendance here carries a responsibility. Ours is a mission of mind and perspective, and consequently, attention is our most precious resource. Do not waste what attention you may attract, nor seek to attract it with wasteful actions. Remember that personal worldview is a most powerful motivator; never treat another's lightly.
Tolerance: Please respect the rights of others to hold beliefs and perspectives, which differ from yours. Our Sober Recovery Forum members are of many nationalities, ages, and cultures. Healthy, vigorous debate will further our goals, but only when guided by the tolerance that springs from mutual embrace of mission.
Intellectual Freedom: Embrace diversity of practice. It is impossible to understand an action without first understanding the actor and their environment. Know that varied environments call for varied response. Your way may not be the best way.
Freedom of Speech: We resist censorship in favor of free speech. Within our forums, we support the broadest range of perspectives and expression, for it is the unification of diversity to cause that gives strength to our community. We are committed to equal opportunity. Influence and responsibility here are inseparable, and both spring solely from a demonstrated commitment to furthering the topics discussed in our forums. Bear in mind, however, that some language and conduct is still considered inappropriate.
Responsible Behavior: Your attendance here carries a responsibility. Ours is a mission of mind and perspective, and consequently, attention is our most precious resource. Do not waste what attention you may attract, nor seek to attract it with wasteful actions. Remember that personal worldview is a most powerful motivator; never treat another's lightly.
Thanks for some food for thought Taz
D
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