Codependency and Beyond
Leap of Faith Survivor
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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"I can't give away anything I haven't got"
((IO)), I 'love that saying..
oh,...(((Amy)))...oh my gosh...how close you came!..this information has probably stirred up your PTSD a little, huh...I am so glad you are taking good care of you, sweetie...
((SG))!...
Things are going so well here....I am really enjoying my time with my brother...He and my daughter have had some time together. He is so good with her....and I can see the gift his presence in her life can be...
Have a great day all
((IO)), I 'love that saying..
oh,...(((Amy)))...oh my gosh...how close you came!..this information has probably stirred up your PTSD a little, huh...I am so glad you are taking good care of you, sweetie...
((SG))!...
Things are going so well here....I am really enjoying my time with my brother...He and my daughter have had some time together. He is so good with her....and I can see the gift his presence in her life can be...
Have a great day all
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Hello Loraine: You certainly are a well-educated and well-spoken woman. You are also a Therapist, as you have said, and I'm sure you have had many people in your office with similar problems to those expressed on this site.
Your post suggests that you believe we are all sitting at our computers hovering over our problems all day long, and I would have to disagree--at least that is not the way I lead my life. Where I think the danger lies is when people have absolutely no contact or support or help in their daily lives outside of an on-line forum. I'm sure that sort of tunnel vision is something that all of us who post here wrestle with from time to time.
Your post also seems to suggest that the primary purpose of this site is to encourage people to leave their spouses when the going gets tough. Perhaps if you had taken the time to read a bit further you would learn that nothing could be farther from the truth. There are many men and women who continue to live with their spouses who are in and out of active addiction and have no intention of leaving. There are also many men and women who have been beaten, whose spouses have taken all the money and left them with no way to feed their children or themselves, who have had multiple affairs.... in short spouses who have in no way shown that they are willing to give up their drug of choice and be an equal partner in a marriage. Would you have those people stay in those marriages?
There is a wide range of people who post here about the addict/alcoholic in their lives from parents and children to spouses/romantic partners to siblings. Most of these people also attend AA/NA or Al-Anon/Nar-Anon meetings in their communities.
I hope very much that your daughter and her husband will find a mutually satisfactory solution to their current situation. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Your post suggests that you believe we are all sitting at our computers hovering over our problems all day long, and I would have to disagree--at least that is not the way I lead my life. Where I think the danger lies is when people have absolutely no contact or support or help in their daily lives outside of an on-line forum. I'm sure that sort of tunnel vision is something that all of us who post here wrestle with from time to time.
Your post also seems to suggest that the primary purpose of this site is to encourage people to leave their spouses when the going gets tough. Perhaps if you had taken the time to read a bit further you would learn that nothing could be farther from the truth. There are many men and women who continue to live with their spouses who are in and out of active addiction and have no intention of leaving. There are also many men and women who have been beaten, whose spouses have taken all the money and left them with no way to feed their children or themselves, who have had multiple affairs.... in short spouses who have in no way shown that they are willing to give up their drug of choice and be an equal partner in a marriage. Would you have those people stay in those marriages?
There is a wide range of people who post here about the addict/alcoholic in their lives from parents and children to spouses/romantic partners to siblings. Most of these people also attend AA/NA or Al-Anon/Nar-Anon meetings in their communities.
I hope very much that your daughter and her husband will find a mutually satisfactory solution to their current situation. Thank you for sharing your experience.
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
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Loraine,
I disagree that all people are codepenent. In my experience in life, that is not the case.
I think that many of the members on this forum have unconditional love for children and spouses who are addicts. That does not necessarily mean that the member has chosen to keep in their life, a person who is an active addict. That's a personal decision and it clearly varies from person to person. Circumstances are always different.
I disagree that all people are codepenent. In my experience in life, that is not the case.
I think that many of the members on this forum have unconditional love for children and spouses who are addicts. That does not necessarily mean that the member has chosen to keep in their life, a person who is an active addict. That's a personal decision and it clearly varies from person to person. Circumstances are always different.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 1,221
Welcome Loraine, the reason I found this site was that I was looking for help with my daughter too. My husband is also a recovering alcoholic and my son is an alcoholic. I am a recovering alcoholic too..so as you can see I need all the help I can get..lol
Anyway, I have spent most of my life worrying and being totally wrapped up in others problems and trying to fix everyone. I have not had a life, its always been about everyone else. I was trying to be loving and caring, and especially not selfish...
Being on this codependency thread has given me hope and I feel I am finally learning to be true to myself. I learning its ok to say No and to have boundaries and be good to my self...and I don't have to live my life just pleasing everyone all the time. I am learning to love myself and in doing so can love others with a genuine love, not out of guilt or because of shoulds....I hope you will continue to share with us Loraine..((hugs))
Anyway, I have spent most of my life worrying and being totally wrapped up in others problems and trying to fix everyone. I have not had a life, its always been about everyone else. I was trying to be loving and caring, and especially not selfish...
Being on this codependency thread has given me hope and I feel I am finally learning to be true to myself. I learning its ok to say No and to have boundaries and be good to my self...and I don't have to live my life just pleasing everyone all the time. I am learning to love myself and in doing so can love others with a genuine love, not out of guilt or because of shoulds....I hope you will continue to share with us Loraine..((hugs))
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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I feared my post would not be seen as an act of philanthropy and instead be regarded as contentious. I certainly had no ill intentions or desire to offend. I have no wish to try to explain what I hoped to offer. I'm sorry. I had contacted the administrator and asked my post be removed from the site. I wish everyone happiness and success with their lives. Good that you offer one another encouragement and support. Friends are very valuable.
Loraine
Loraine
Leap of Faith Survivor
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Loraine, Welcome..
I am sorry that you were discouraged in reading through this thread...
There is a Friends and Family of alcoholics, and a Friends and Family of Substance Abuse Forum on this site for people who are affected by someone's addiction but that is not the focus of this thread.
This thread was begun as a place for those of us who wish to discuss codependency, in and of itself, as it relates to our lives and not in relation to an addict. Perhaps you are confusing this thread with those forums.
I do not agree with your assessment of this thread, or your statement that 'We all are" codependent, but I would encourage you to take what you want and leave the rest
I am sorry that you were discouraged in reading through this thread...
There is a Friends and Family of alcoholics, and a Friends and Family of Substance Abuse Forum on this site for people who are affected by someone's addiction but that is not the focus of this thread.
This thread was begun as a place for those of us who wish to discuss codependency, in and of itself, as it relates to our lives and not in relation to an addict. Perhaps you are confusing this thread with those forums.
I do not agree with your assessment of this thread, or your statement that 'We all are" codependent, but I would encourage you to take what you want and leave the rest
Last edited by grateful2b; 02-24-2009 at 03:17 PM.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Loraine,
Everyone who offers information or experience here is acting in a philanthropic manner. My apologies if you are offended by my response, but if you are willing to post something here, you need to be willing to accept each person's honest response to what you have to say or share.
If I have understood you correctly, it is clear that you believe all who post to this board are wasting their time. I support you 100% in your right to hold that opinion.
As I said at the end of my previous response, thank you for sharing your experience with us as it augments our collective efforts at improving our lives.
Again, I wish you all the best and actually hope that your post is NOT removed.
Everyone who offers information or experience here is acting in a philanthropic manner. My apologies if you are offended by my response, but if you are willing to post something here, you need to be willing to accept each person's honest response to what you have to say or share.
If I have understood you correctly, it is clear that you believe all who post to this board are wasting their time. I support you 100% in your right to hold that opinion.
As I said at the end of my previous response, thank you for sharing your experience with us as it augments our collective efforts at improving our lives.
Again, I wish you all the best and actually hope that your post is NOT removed.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,512
Hi Everybody,
Well, I just blew my boundaries right out of the water, and it took me only a minute to go from calm and peaceful to heart-pounding and raising my voice.
My husband just went to the optometrist. He discovered he had a cataract beginning on one eye a couple of years ago. So, today he was examined and found that it had worsened slightly. Cataracts are not a big deal because the surgery that can be done now is quick and safe. But, having his vision compromised, directly affects his job. So, when he came home and told me the story, I decided I knew how he should handle it. I knew that he should go to see an opthamologist. I knew he should find out how long he would be required to be off work. I started doing research on the interenet to find out everything I could. Basically, I was handling the situation.
Turns out, hubby thinks he can handle the situation.
Wow, I turned into a super-codie within about 5 seconds.
Oh well, back to my corner.
Well, I just blew my boundaries right out of the water, and it took me only a minute to go from calm and peaceful to heart-pounding and raising my voice.
My husband just went to the optometrist. He discovered he had a cataract beginning on one eye a couple of years ago. So, today he was examined and found that it had worsened slightly. Cataracts are not a big deal because the surgery that can be done now is quick and safe. But, having his vision compromised, directly affects his job. So, when he came home and told me the story, I decided I knew how he should handle it. I knew that he should go to see an opthamologist. I knew he should find out how long he would be required to be off work. I started doing research on the interenet to find out everything I could. Basically, I was handling the situation.
Turns out, hubby thinks he can handle the situation.
Wow, I turned into a super-codie within about 5 seconds.
Oh well, back to my corner.
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
(((Anna)))
Isn't it amazing how fast we can return to an "I know exactly what to do" codie in a heartbeat Heck, I spent the whole DAY telling dad how to handle stepmom's pain pill stuff before realizing what I was doing, then had to apologize.
At least we realize it, now, before we do too much damage. Can't tell you how many times I've said "aw, dammit, I'm doing it again"...and retreated to my corner.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Isn't it amazing how fast we can return to an "I know exactly what to do" codie in a heartbeat
Heck, I spent the whole DAY telling dad how to handle stepmom's pain pill stuff before realizing what I was doing, then had to apologize.At least we realize it, now, before we do too much damage. Can't tell you how many times I've said "aw, dammit, I'm doing it again"...and retreated to my corner.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
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Originally Posted by Impurrfect 
(((Anna)))
Isn't it amazing how fast we can return to an "I know exactly what to do" codie in a heartbeat Heck, I spent the whole DAY telling dad how to handle stepmom's pain pill stuff before realizing what I was doing, then had to apologize.
At least we realize it, now, before we do too much damage. Can't tell you how many times I've said "aw, dammit, I'm doing it again"...and retreated to my corner.
Amy
Isn't it amazing how fast we can return to an "I know exactly what to do" codie in a heartbeat
Heck, I spent the whole DAY telling dad how to handle stepmom's pain pill stuff before realizing what I was doing, then had to apologize.At least we realize it, now, before we do too much damage. Can't tell you how many times I've said "aw, dammit, I'm doing it again"...and retreated to my corner.
Amy
Funny how Life turns out because I feel I have come so far. Possibly too far with a lot of people, yet here I am in a tricky and emotionally taut situation. Awareness helps and I know I don't have to get pulled back into my Family's dysfunctional ways - unless I allow them to.
Thanks for letting me post guys.
Leap of Faith Survivor
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,555
You are reading from The Language of Letting Go by Melody Beattie
February 25
Accepting Imperfection
"Why do I do this to myself?" asked a woman who wanted to lose weight. "I went to my support group feeling so guilty and ashamed because I ate half a cookie that wasn't on the diet. I found out that everyone cheats a little, and some people cheat a lot. I felt so ashamed before I came to the group, as though I were the only one not doing my diet perfectly. Now I know that I'm dieting as well as most, and better than some.
Why do we we do this to ourselves? I'm not talking strictly about dieting; I'm talking about life. Why do we punish ourselves by thinking that we're inferior while believing that others are perfect - whether in relationships, recovery, or a specific task?
Whether we're judging ourselves or others, it's two sides of the same coin: perfection. Neither expectation is valid. It is far more accurate and beneficial to tell ourselves that who we are is okay and what we are doing is good enough.
That doesn't mean that we won't make mistakes that need correcting; doesn't mean that we won't get off track from time to time; doesn't mean we can't improve. It means with all our mistakes and wandering. We're basically on course. Encouraging and approving of ourselves is how we help ourselves stay on track.
Today, I will love and encourage myself. I will tell myself that what I'm doing is good enough, and I'll let myself enjoy that feeling.
February 25
Accepting Imperfection
"Why do I do this to myself?" asked a woman who wanted to lose weight. "I went to my support group feeling so guilty and ashamed because I ate half a cookie that wasn't on the diet. I found out that everyone cheats a little, and some people cheat a lot. I felt so ashamed before I came to the group, as though I were the only one not doing my diet perfectly. Now I know that I'm dieting as well as most, and better than some.
Why do we we do this to ourselves? I'm not talking strictly about dieting; I'm talking about life. Why do we punish ourselves by thinking that we're inferior while believing that others are perfect - whether in relationships, recovery, or a specific task?
Whether we're judging ourselves or others, it's two sides of the same coin: perfection. Neither expectation is valid. It is far more accurate and beneficial to tell ourselves that who we are is okay and what we are doing is good enough.
That doesn't mean that we won't make mistakes that need correcting; doesn't mean that we won't get off track from time to time; doesn't mean we can't improve. It means with all our mistakes and wandering. We're basically on course. Encouraging and approving of ourselves is how we help ourselves stay on track.
Today, I will love and encourage myself. I will tell myself that what I'm doing is good enough, and I'll let myself enjoy that feeling.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Originally Posted by grateful2b
Why do we punish ourselves by thinking that we're inferior while believing that others are perfect - whether in relationships, recovery, or a specific task?
Whether we're judging ourselves or others, it's two sides of the same coin: perfection. Neither expectation is valid. It is far more accurate and beneficial to tell ourselves that who we are is okay and what we are doing is good enough.
Whether we're judging ourselves or others, it's two sides of the same coin: perfection. Neither expectation is valid. It is far more accurate and beneficial to tell ourselves that who we are is okay and what we are doing is good enough.
Originally Posted by grateful2b
Today, I will love and encourage myself. I will tell myself that what I'm doing is good enough, and I'll let myself enjoy that feeling.
Hugs to all! HG
Leap of Faith Survivor
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Anna, thats hilarious!
((Expresso))
It is so wonderful that you are there for your Dad. I appreciate your discomfort in having to tell him what to do at times, but I agree that the circumstances warrant it..but you are moving with grace through a difficult process while honoring him.
I was my Dad's caretaker through his battle with cancer, and that was an honor and such a gift to us both.
I dug into Language of Letting Go and found something hopefully helpful..
Healthy giving is part of healthy living. The goal in recovery is balance - caring that is motivated by a true desire to give, with an underlying attitude of respect for ourself and others. The goal in recovery is to give and not feel victimized by our giving.
Are we giving because we want to, it is our responsibility ? Or are we giving because we feel obligated, guilty, ashamed or superior? Are we giving because we are afraid to say no?
My brother is staying with me... He has a great need for support and healing right now...While I tend to my fences and try and look out for me as I extend my hand in fellowship and counsel to him..it is a conscious choice to commit to giving.
The practical realities are interesting...lol...my living space is small but I have adjusted ..and it is a tradeoff because his presence has brought unexpected gifts ...
I think the biggest challenge for me is not in giving too much; it is in managing to keep the focus on me, while I do and remembering that even though he has come to me for help, it is his canoe to paddle and to not get pulled into worrying about or taking on responsibility for his outcome..
((Expresso))
It is so wonderful that you are there for your Dad. I appreciate your discomfort in having to tell him what to do at times, but I agree that the circumstances warrant it..but you are moving with grace through a difficult process while honoring him.
I was my Dad's caretaker through his battle with cancer, and that was an honor and such a gift to us both.
I dug into Language of Letting Go and found something hopefully helpful..
Healthy giving is part of healthy living. The goal in recovery is balance - caring that is motivated by a true desire to give, with an underlying attitude of respect for ourself and others. The goal in recovery is to give and not feel victimized by our giving.
Are we giving because we want to, it is our responsibility ? Or are we giving because we feel obligated, guilty, ashamed or superior? Are we giving because we are afraid to say no?
My brother is staying with me... He has a great need for support and healing right now...While I tend to my fences and try and look out for me as I extend my hand in fellowship and counsel to him..it is a conscious choice to commit to giving.
The practical realities are interesting...lol...my living space is small but I have adjusted ..and it is a tradeoff because his presence has brought unexpected gifts ...
I think the biggest challenge for me is not in giving too much; it is in managing to keep the focus on me, while I do and remembering that even though he has come to me for help, it is his canoe to paddle and to not get pulled into worrying about or taking on responsibility for his outcome..
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
I totally understand the double standard. I've always expected myself to be perfect. If I couldn't do something perfectly, I'd often abandon it. However, I was much more forgiving of everyone else for their mistakes.
I'm getting better, but I still have a long way to go.
I am throwing on my superwoman cape, just for today. Dad is sick and was able to only do one of my stores...that leaves me with 6 to do. I want to get them all done, today, so I can take off tomorrow. So, I will be busy, and it will be a long day, but I will be rewarded with having tomorrow off
At least, now, I know I can take the cape back off!! It's not permanently attached to my body!
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
I'm getting better, but I still have a long way to go.
I am throwing on my superwoman cape, just for today. Dad is sick and was able to only do one of my stores...that leaves me with 6 to do. I want to get them all done, today, so I can take off tomorrow. So, I will be busy, and it will be a long day, but I will be rewarded with having tomorrow off
At least, now, I know I can take the cape back off!! It's not permanently attached to my body!
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 1,221
Originally Posted by grateful2b
Are we giving because we want to, it is our responsibility ? or are we giving because we feel obligated, guilty, ashamed or superior? Are we giving because we are afraid to say no?[/
Are we giving because we want to, it is our responsibility ? or are we giving because we feel obligated, guilty, ashamed or superior? Are we giving because we are afraid to say no?[/
I think the biggest challenge for me is not in giving too much; it is in managing to keep the focus on me, while I do and remembering that even though he has come to me for help, it is his canoe to paddle and to not get pulled into worrying about or taking on responsibility for his outcome..
also that is the hardest challenge, as you mentioned not being pulled into worrying about or taking on responsibility for his outcome, sending you extra prayers to help you with that...
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