stone

I won't give up Ess. I DO put the action into AA, I don't expect it to happen by magic.

Gyps, my comment was a joke on your joke, sheesh.

Ananda

I sure am glad I didn't come to AA in the 1940s....pretty sure I would have ended up dead from drinking or from total dispair.

Even though I don't believe in god, one of the things I have to remember everyday at SR is what a speaker waas told once in AA....

God's children see when they can see and they hear when they can hear....you didn't do anything wrong .... you kept coming back.

Even today I still wake up on occasion to something that was as plain as the nose on my face to everyone else.....that I was told over and over...but for some reason it is that day, that moment...that I am able to see and hear.

Astro

Sounds like a Prohibition pamphlet written by old ladies. Here's the Akron Manual in it's entirety A Manual for Alcoholics Anonymous, The Akron Manual (1940)

I love this part:

A.A. is not interested in sobering up drunks who are not sincere in their desire to remain completely sober for all time. A.A. is not interested in alcoholics who want to sober up merely to go on another bender, sober up because of fear for their jobs, their wives, their social standing, or to clear up some trouble either real or imaginary. In other words, if a person is genuinely sincere in his desire for continued sobriety for his own good, is convinced in his heart that alcohol holds him in its power, and is willing to admit that he is an alcoholic, members of Alcoholics Anonymous will do all in their power, spend days of their time to guide him to a new, a happy, and a contented way of life.

Stone, I'm sorry if you're sick of hearing what I'm trying to say. I'm not a Big Book thumper, I can't quote from the BB and tell you what page it's from, I don't know all the Traditions and history of AA and all the other blah blah blah.

I only know from my experience what works for me. I'm a guy who abused his kids from the day they were born. I've got a former sponsee who's stolen bicycles and toys from his kids to pawn off for crack. He continues to drink and I pray every night that he lives to see the next day. I've got another sponsee who's on the police force and drank over killing people, but he's coming up on two years of sobriety. So my experience is pretty simple: Do the deal, or die, or end up in prison.

I'll say it too. Check into rehab, or commit yourself 100% to recovery. I understand that not everyone gets recovery the first time, or the second, or the tenth. But sooner or later the revolving door has to quit spinning, and the excuses have to stop.

Done.

stone

Can we make that the last now please?

This is turning into a re-run of last time. Do people really think 'a stern talking to' is what I need?

Rowan

No, Paul.

I don't think you need a stern talking to. But I am not, for one, going to go back to posting goofy things back and forth here in a false attempt at cheer. You are drinking yourself to death, and I'm not condemning you for that. I can't pretend that everything is okay because you and I have formed a bond, and to ignore what is happening would be insane.

Stop drinking. This isn't about timetables or expectations or anything else. Either go back to drinking and quit quitting, do you know what I'm saying? Make a choice, and bloody well take action already.

paulmh

I was only having a joke with you earlier Stone, I couldn't resist it. You know my opinion on this - people get sober when they're ready and not a minute before. Guess that makes me a fatalist. And incidentally, having met you I would never make a comment about your sobriety on a public forum. It would be too much like breaking anonymity. So - sorry if my joke was too close to home.

I love the 1940s preamble - seriously, it makes me tear up every time I read it. I never get past this bit -

without getting a lump in my throat. That's what it's all about - but for me that doesn't mean running around after people who're still suffering (not talking about anyone specific here!). It means being available when they're ready.

Thanks for all the love you people put into Bottoms. I'm sure that love like that is never wasted. It's in the bank.

paulmh

Gah.

stone

That is a fact.

Ro, you are trying the 'stern talking' approach you know?

That's real nice, give up hope...thanks.

You know CarolD was in AA 5 years before she quit and is now 20 odd years sober, you would have told her to stop trying too?

People seem to forget pretty easily what it was like when they couldn't quit...

stone

In other he words he can eff off...that is what I was 'good griefing' about.

Dee74

OK - I can't stand it.

I think defensive Paul pisses me off the most.

You're not a helpless victim of alcoholism here, Stoney.
You've been at this a long time. you had six months, you know all the tools. Use them.

Or admit your way sucks and hit inpatient rehab.

IMO We don't drink til we're done - its too easy to use that as a copout. I did.
We drink until we choose to be done. That's an important distinction.

I appreciate Ro's point even if you chose to misrepresent it. It distresses me to see someone talking the talk but continually failing to walk the walk.

I remember one time, one time, in recent history you used SR for help rather than facile banter - then you went and drank anyway.

Don't blame us Stoney.

No point in me saying anymore. Good luck.

D

Dee74

and I don't forget what it was like - but I remember what I had to be like to get out of it.

D

stone

I can't stand this anymore either.

BTW Ro, I know you didn't mean you wanted me to drink.

I preferred facile banter (I obviously mistook it for friendship) to all this tough love crap maskerading as caring.

I obviously haven't bee trying hard enough, don't want recovery enough so I have no place on a recovery board.

parentrecovers

time out everybuddy! and that's all i have to say at the very minute!

Rowan

Yeah Paul I know CarolD was in AA for 5 years - but I didn't know her the way I know you. She wasn't sharing with me what it was like after each binge; the debilitating physical effects, the vomiting blood. You HAVE shared with me, you are my FRIEND. I relapsed twice along the road with booze, and once with pills. I am not immune to relapse. It's just .. it's just that your actions don't mirror your words, and I feel (read FEEL) confused when this happens.

You don't need to leave here. You don't need to be sober to be here. You know that. Quit being all pissy already. You remind me of my sister when you act this way.

stone

It feels like being 'ganged up on' Ro. I am still emotionally shaky after drinking, I should have just not reacted. I can act childishly when in this state.

I can understand people losing patience with me, and some people definitely have.The way people talk to me doesn't happen in other peoples threads, I realise this is because we have grown close here.

I can't take the "stern talking to's" anymore though. I thought Dee had got the point last time but he obviously didn't. I know I have been defensive and pissy but I just feel hopeless and sad.
Some have lost patience and some are on their last nerve with concern and some both, probably.

Rowan

You aren't being ganged up on, I promise you. This is what love looks like.

Ananda

I guess I just wanted to say that I do care about all of you...I'm just not real good at this sort of situation.

I sure hope everyone is able to get what they need out of this. I am really hoping it will end up well. (and i am not being sarcastic...I really mean it)...So i'll just be back later

:ghug

parentrecovers

it's hard to let go of the fear when someone you love and care about is drinking and using. i go through this all the time, with my daughter and others i have met through aa and alanon. sometimes my fear comes out as anger. sometimes it comes out as sadness. sometimes it makes me a bossy, can't mind my own business bitch. sometimes it doesn't come out at all and i just sit, stuck in my own recovery. it's a really hard part of my own gettin' better, i know that.

Rowan

Everything is gonna be okay, Nanners. Me and Stone are just working through some stuff here. All is cool. You do what you need to take care of yourself, though. I understand.

stone

I have never heard anyone say "I finally quit when my friends talked sternly to me" though.

It doesn't work and I would appreciate it if people stopped doing it.