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Old 05-11-2013, 07:57 PM
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bipolar alcoholic

How Does bipolar and alcoholism affect each other? Which takes the greater possession of a person?
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Old 05-12-2013, 05:08 AM
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Don't think that anyone can say. The stats are that about 60% of the bipolars also use alcohol or drugs to self medicate. So until we get clean and sober we cannot get the meds right. My therapist says that they effects of bipolar and alcohol are very close in the brain but I am not sure that they know.

But I know that we cannot drink or use with the medication. That is for sure.

So if you want to have any sort of recovery,. you have to get clean and sober.

dual diagnosis is horrible.

good luck and welcome...
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:14 AM
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Peanutter,

Yes.. I have learned & seen the affects of mixing alcohol & bipolar meds.. Landed him in the hospital twice in the last two months for suicide attempts. The meds at this point are actually making things much worse. He feels because he did it once before when he was much younger, he can do it again. He is on a vicious circle.. I had to get off the merry-go-round.. end result he has been on the streets for the last two months.. That hurts me too.. But at least I feel safe when I come home from work.. and I get more sleep.. Last time we spoke he asked me if this was "tough love".. Maybe, more realistically it is probably self-protection.. & natural consequences of his actions..
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:21 AM
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goodheartangel- I was in a relationship with an alcoholic with bp. It is horrible. I fear for him as well. He would not listen to me about the effects of alcohol on his disorder. No suicide attempts, but he has done some risking things in his life. He flirts with the idea of buying a gun but I always talked him out of it. He is not even thirty and looks closer to 40. Only a 40 yr old that doesn't take care of himself. He thinks that because he works out that he is healthy. He left me out of the blue to move out west for the pot.(hasn't happened yet) and because he felt he should have options with women. He says he has to do something "BIG" with his life. He says being with me won't get him a national obituary. He came back and left again 3x in the last five months. I finally ended it 17 days ago. It hurts and I am trying to regain myself. I love him so much. He was my best friend and from what he told me I was his. I am so afraid of him picking up a STD, or being hurt. He has been punched a few times in bars because of his off putting behavior. I know he has added heavier drugs at times since we have been apart. Last time we spoke he had done some oxycontin, a bump of coke in addition to his drinking and smoking pot with his old college buddies. Addiction with bipolar is a nasty beast. I'm sorry for your loss. I hope he finds help. Best to you.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:55 PM
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First - thank God for this forum. It helps me better understand the sometimes confusing issues I am facing with my husband who is alcoholic and (I believe) bipolar. Unfortunately his doctor (who knows of his alcohol abuse) is giving him xanax and now prozac, instead of telling him to go to rehab for his alcohol abuse. Since he started taking xanax 3 years ago his condition has gotten a lot worse. The manic periods are happening closer together and lasting longer. He is starting to "mess up" at work and I expect he will soon loose his job.

He is refusing to admit he has issues with alcohol, and now his doctor has him on prozac instead of convincing him to go to rehab. It is sad to say - I see no hope for him. I saw him climb to the pinnacle of his career/life and now I must see him lose everything he worked so hard for - me, his house, his savings, his wonderful lifestyle. I have pulled him from the brink many times. Now it is time for me to take care of myself because he will not be able to do it. His constant manic episodes have started to affect his job and he is now at the brink of being fired. With him being the only income earner it is tough.

But I have had enough of living this life. I would be happy to live in a one room apartment by myself - than in our currently comfortable home with him. A bipolar/alcoholic spouse is 10 times worth than living with an alcoholic. I don't know how I survived it so far.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:21 AM
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whyme2012, and any one else who feels free to share...

Thank you for sharing... Most of the responses I receive give me very little hope.. I really don't where to go from here. I just don't know how to NOT CARE.. There is also a very strong parental issue interfering with our conversations, choices, pending decisions, hopes and personal desires. I can't take on his whole family. But mommy dearest has the $$$ to back up any fantasy solution she investigates. However, on the flip side, she can't seem to support the efforts and strides he has made ON HIS OWN & FOR HIMSELF (step dad just goes along for the ride, but always sides with mom). I do ALOT of reading.. Today I came across the great idea of natural consequences I had forgotten from my many years of teaching. I was feeling bad about his being out on the street, but that is a very natural consequence of the negative behavior his demonstrates. What to do... What to think... What to say... Where to go from here... I am thankful and there has got to be a reason he is still alive!!
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:20 AM
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Without drink and drugs I spend half my time looking far more 'sane' because I'm not engaging in the stuff you gotta do to carry on being a junkie or drunk. The other half of the time I spend looking crazier than ever because other people can no longer blame my craziness on drugs and drink...

I always believed in natural consequences. My problem has never been taking responsibility (even as a junky), but having it taken from me - doctors, police, family, friends etc do have a tendency to blame anything they don't like about me or any beliefs I have that they struggle to understand down to my 'being mentally ill' and / or an 'addict' as a pose to simply accepting I have my own thoughts.

...which reduces my beliefs (thus, my very being) to nothing but 'something wrong' or a sickness and can be pretty soul destroying. I know some junkies and drunks would kill for such a 'get outa jail' card, but what good does it do them?

I think the worst thing you can do to a bipolar, junkie, drunk (or mix of the three) is deny them responsibility for their choices. Yes, there are going to be times when they are of 'diminished responsibility' due to drink or drugs or psychosis or whatever, but at what point do you stop saying 'that was illness'?

As a 'crazy', I don't see people doing this as 'understanding' (oh, how nice of the normal folk to try understand a monstrous little thing like me)...I just see someone denying me the right to myself, someone who looks at me like nothing is there. And that, for a junky looking for an excuse to use is all they need to carry on being 'just a junkie'. It creates a self fulfilling prophecy.

I'd rather be blamed for something that isn't my fault than denied the right to be at fault. Denying a person's right to a self is far more debilitating than bp or addiction...even combined.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:17 AM
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I can really relate to what tsukiko said.. And I also really feel bad for Goodhearted angel and Why Me.. The best think I can suggest for the OTHERS.. for the spouse and girl friend is to get to ALANON and NAMI meeting for the families and learn how to fosus on yourselves. Recovery is only going to come from the addict/patient themselves, not from anyone else forcing them into treatment. That just does not work.

It is really difficult to have a relationship with an unmedicated bipolar. They are having difficulty having a relationship with themselves. And an alcoholic?addict is having a relaitonship with his drug of choice. So wise up that nieither of them is really having a relationship with you. So get into a program for yourselves so that you can learn how to deal with your own lives.

When the OTHER learns that finally he is going to have to take responsablity fot their own lives, maybe they will.

I always thought it was easier on me.. because I had no one. I used to go to the NAMI meetings sometimes and see all these families who were totally focused on the ill person and the illness... for myself, I knew that I had to manage it on my own.

I am no poster child, for sure, Never worked a clean program. Always smoked pot, never had clean meds. But always managed to keep my friends and my place in the community. Always had a roof over my head. Always made amends.

Now clean and sober and on my meds straight.. It can happen.

Really, your stories break my heart

I wish you luck and send you prayers.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:04 PM
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Feel for you too, goodheartedangel. You're in a damn hard situation.

'Mentioned my experience in the small hope of offering a (albeit tiny) bit of reassurance: you're showing him you respect he is more than an addict- that you believe he can and needs to take responsibility for himself. You're doing him a a supreme favour and recognise (like you mentioned) when he has tried to do positive stuff. Don't be sorry for that; it is the most you can do for him and takes the most amount of courage.

I had two best mates when I started using heroin. One reacted to my using by telling me straight up 'I'm not going to stick around to watch you crash and burn your life' and implored my other mate to do the same. My other mate hung around - more to get one over on my first mate than anything else. I knew this even then, but it suited me that she acted that way; it enabled me to carry on using.

I didn't see my first mate for two years, but when I hit that ultimate rock bottom, can you guess whose door I turned up at?

The mate who said she'd stick around...we used each other up and she bailed eventually. I don't blame her, but I don't miss her either. We enabled each other until it destroyed any real friendship...or chance of one.

The mate I didn't see for two years...I missed her everyday until I turned up at her door, she took one look at me, called a doctor, gave me a bed and watched me go through cold turkey. She's the only person who had the guts to have beliefs and stand by them...and I respect her more than anyone. She waited two years without knowing I'd ever turn up. I don't know how she did that.

You don't get to meet many people like that in life (if any) cause few people have the strength to be that person. She did though. I can't know, but sounds like you're that person too...

Stay strong and stay true. That's the most (and bravest...and hardest...and only) true thing you can do to help him.

The rest is up to him...whatever his family do. He has a choice, and it is his (and his only) to make.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:35 PM
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"The mate who said she'd stick around...we used each other up and she bailed eventually. I don't blame her, but I don't miss her either. We enabled each other until it destroyed any real friendship...or chance of one." - Tsukiko

That is where I am. All used up and now I am bailing.
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Old 05-14-2013, 04:06 PM
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Whyme - no shame in that. Takes strength to say enough is enough...in any situation.

We were both struggling to find ways to stay above water...enabling each other because (like anyone) we just wanted to be ok and be normal (and even squeeze a laugh out along the way), but eventually she'd had enough and mustered the strength to say and do so.

One of us had to and she managed it. Kudos to her. Indirectly, it helped me to come to the decision I did too.

Kudos to you too, I hope you're alright, Whyme. Respect to y'both.
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Old 05-18-2013, 07:00 AM
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Oh My God... I am crying my eyes out... Thank you so much for sharing tsukiko, peanutter and whyme2012.. I have no idea where things are at or where things are going. The last I heard from him was a very quick phone call on an number I did not recognize and tried to call.. He wanted to see the dogs we "raised" together one last time before he "checked out"... Ploy to get attention??? Or serious??? I tried looking for him last night about 10P.. All the places I know in the streets that he feels are safe enough to catch some sleep.. Some of his things were there, but he was no where to be found.. Spent most of the night tossing and turning before my mind could rest. Finally fell asleep around 3a.. alarm went off at 730a to begin my next day of working and handling all the household (that we built together) responsibilities by my self.. Todays goal.. Try to stay focused to preform appropriately for my employer, while I wonder if "that phone call" will come today. Which is the lesser of two evils.. Having him back home.. or "the phone call".. Got to run responsibilities are waiting.
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Old 05-18-2013, 09:00 AM
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I think staying or walking away is hard. My ex also lied A LOT about what he was doing. I did my very best not to enable him. I didn't give him money. I would call him on his ****. I didn't feel sorry for him when his actions lead to consequences. Yet, his parents are always bailing him out. They pay a lot of his bills and basically agree with everything he says. I can't control what they chose to do. I think because he has bp they feel should do whatever they can to keep him from ending up on the streets or in jail. Most of his friends are into drinking, drugs and chasing women. I feel angry that I still became part of his dysfunction as much as I tried not too. He broke up with me partly I feel because I did hold him accountable for his actions. I think he may have been hypomanic and wanted to sleep around. He kept coming back and I finally had to stop the cycle because it hurt too much. I have not spoken to him in almost a month. He texted me earlier this week. It was a very generic text, so I ignored him. When I last spoke to him I told him I loved him and I hoped he found the help he needed. I said I felt it was his failure to commit to his health that really ruined us. It is hard because I truly do love him. I am saddened that he can't see or value that....I am saddened that we cannot be in each other's lives because he was my best friend and from what he told me if I can believe him is I was his as well.
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:10 AM
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Helltoraise (great name, btw), you are right; you can't control what others do - only what you do. Hard as it seems, accepting this brings much peace and allows you to identify your own thoughts / feelings and act upon your own decisions with more clarity, hence more resolve. I think parents sometimes feel guilty that their kid (however old) has bp and try to compensate. They carry a burden, either way, no spouse does - they made and / or raised this kid. Addicts, heartbreaking as it is, will exploit any (and every) opportunity to keep using - even love. He may have chosen drink / drugs over you, but remember addicts love as intensely as anyone - its just love is not as convenient or instantaneous as either drink / drugs. Stay strong, helltoraise and remember hope takes guts; like I said above, when I genuinely wanted to get clean I didn't turn to any of the people who had enabled me - I turned to the one person who hadn't; as an addict I may have liked her least out of everyone, but as a person she was who I respected, trusted and turned to. It took me two years (it can take ten), but I turned up. And when her brother didn't turn up (instead, he relapsed after years clean and died of an OD days before I turned up on her doorstep), she knew and accepted he'd had a choice, even if she can never accept the choice he made.

Goodheartedangel - If you have no idea 'where things are at or where they are going' it is because you are not the one steering this ship! While you're hanging on an addict it'll always be that way - even he doesn't know where he's at or going! Its like getting in a car with a blind person who refuses to take direction - you're always going to be second guessing ('ploy to get attention? Or serious'?). Of course, being bp too it does complicate it (there is an issue of diminished responsibility at certain times), but as a diagnosed bp who spent years both drinking and shooting gear, I hold by what I said above - worst thing anyone ever did for me was try to take responsibility from / for me...without it, I'd have never had any reason or ever been able to get clean!

Thinking of ya' Angel
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Whyme2012 View Post
First - thank God for this forum. It helps me better understand the sometimes confusing issues I am facing with my husband who is alcoholic and (I believe) bipolar. Unfortunately his doctor (who knows of his alcohol abuse) is giving him xanax and now prozac, instead of telling him to go to rehab for his alcohol abuse. Since he started taking xanax 3 years ago his condition has gotten a lot worse. The manic periods are happening closer together and lasting longer. He is starting to "mess up" at work and I expect he will soon loose his job.

He is refusing to admit he has issues with alcohol, and now his doctor has him on prozac instead of convincing him to go to rehab. It is sad to say - I see no hope for him. I saw him climb to the pinnacle of his career/life and now I must see him lose everything he worked so hard for - me, his house, his savings, his wonderful lifestyle. I have pulled him from the brink many times. Now it is time for me to take care of myself because he will not be able to do it. His constant manic episodes have started to affect his job and he is now at the brink of being fired. With him being the only income earner it is tough.

But I have had enough of living this life. I would be happy to live in a one room apartment by myself - than in our currently comfortable home with him. A bipolar/alcoholic spouse is 10 times worth than living with an alcoholic. I don't know how I survived it so far.
I have the diagnosis of bipolar I am do not self medicate in my case antidepressants make me rapid cycle I don't get why the doctor would put him on xanax if the doctor is aware of the alcohol use possibly the doctor doesn't know? My son is dual diagnosis schizoaffective and addict, his doctors kept treating him for the schizoaffective, he had signed papers so the doctor/therapist and I could talk in his case they never gave him anything he could get addicted to because they were aware of his use on the other hand the doctor never talked to him about treatment for his addiction but the therapist did. I am sorry your going through this.
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:35 AM
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WHYME.. I do not know if you are still here but what CrazyBabie says is quite right.. Most psciatrists will avoid xanax.. which is a narcotic and habit forming.. AND prozac which is an antidepressant and can trigger manic episodes.. certainly will not prescribe prozac without a mood stabilizer. Is he seeing a psychiatrist or just a regular doctor? Does the doctor really know about his drinking? I know that it is very hard diagnosis. And I do not blame you for being fed up. But maybe actually trying to get him to another doctor and at least onlto a mood stabilizer? Also get yourself to AlAnon where you might find some support as you go through this. Lots of spouses there who must be married to dual diagnosed.. keep stong
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:46 PM
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Thanks Peanutter and Crazybabie,
The doctor is very well aware of how much he drinks because I went to his office and told him and asked for his help. The doctor was present at an intervention I arranged for my husband to get into rehab. After my husband got out of rehab, he was able to convince my doctor to give him another prescription and that I was the crazy one. The doctor, who has an alcoholic son and should know how alcoholic lie, doesn't want to hear anymore stories about my husband from me.

My husband will not change this doctor. I could of course make trouble by showing the doctor more proof of what was going on - but why bother. I think my husband's lucky ride is coming to an end. The only way he will get better is if he faces the consequences. He's basically left me in a worse situation than when I met him...true sign of a scumbag.... :-(
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:51 PM
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Tsukiko-thank you for responding.....Yes I sensed his parents felt an extra burden and personally I do feel he exploits him. I'm not sure if you are suggesting I did enable him or not.....I'm sure I did at times. It is very tricky terrain. I never tried to control his drinking drug use and as I stated he lied about it a lot. He lies to his parents too. He visits them when not drunk still high though and in a good frame of mine. I noticed he started to do the same thing with me. I encouraged him to talk to his pdoc about his drinking and to try to find an addiction specialist as he didn't seem able to quit on his own. I would tell him how I noticed it effected his moods and how it keeps his medication from working. I always starte off with I tell you this because I love you.....Anyway, my therapist says it is not my fault if he misrepresented himself as wanting to get help and then just sneaking and lying behind my back. I hope despite the fact that he seems to have gotten away with a lot in our relationship that if he ever gets healthy that he realizes how much I love him. How honest I was with him and how much I wanted him to be healthy and despite what he may feel about me this is part of what real love is a sense of good will towards the other person. I hope he realizes I didn't deserve his shoddy treatment and if I ended up enabling him because he was deceptive it is not my fault. It hurts being thrown away by him and feeling I can't be in his life and the people who hand him the drugs get to be. I miss my best friend. and I want to note his parents told me on more than one occasion that he was the healthiest and the happiest he had been in a long time with me. They told him the same. He agreed but I noticed over time he seemed to resent this and started sabotaging us. I hope for him and in some ways for us. We had a great bond. Please hope for us too. I hope somewhere buried under his illnesses he still feels something for me and knows I only wanted the best for him me and us and I wanted to share my life with him and not "trap" him.
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:13 PM
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Helltoraise,

I notice our experiences are so similar. I keep trying to remind my husband what we use to have, before he started cycling more rapidly. He sees his family and doctor when he is not drunk and they think everything is fine. When I keep trying to tell what is really going on I look like the one crazy.

Tonight I sent him an interesting post from this board. When he finally saw it he stormed in the living room and started screaming at me - saying if I sent him something like this again he would kill me. I've never heard him say that before. I think it is indicative of his mental state. Last night I was starting to wish I had a lock on my bedroom door. I just don't feel safe when he is like this though he never touched me 'm afraid he will snap. I apologized to him for sending it. He was angry and upset because I implied he was bipolar and he said he was not.

My home is a House of Horrors.
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:00 PM
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My never ending thought today.. Self esteem, self worth and self value are such a fragile commodity... BEWARE to TAKE CARE of the ones you love... You may be the only one they have and trust with their lives.. We all depend on and need each other.. Listen to that still soft inner voice of guidance in any situation... The right words from the right inner spirit will come to mind when you need them most..
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