Alcoholic and Pers. Disorder
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3
Alcoholic and Pers. Disorder
I am married to a woman who is an alcoholic (recovering) with Borderline PD. She is not willing to admit to the PD part yet it seems to be affecting her recovery part. She seems to be stuck on step 8. she has been sober for a year now but seems to not be able to accept any wrong doing. She shuts down if I confront her about anything I have an issue with regarding her behavior or treatment of me, kids etc. I am concerned about her skipping steps. It is common for BPD's to be professional liars, and she certainly is no stranger to lying as an alcoholic. My question is what should I expect through this process? Will her sponsor ensure that she is making amends? What does that look like?
We have been separated due to her addictions and disorders for the past 14 months. I am committed to standing by her but she seems like she wants a divorce now. At least she tells me that. Doesn't seem to match up with what I know about AA and the 12 steps.
Thank you for the help, advice etc.
We have been separated due to her addictions and disorders for the past 14 months. I am committed to standing by her but she seems like she wants a divorce now. At least she tells me that. Doesn't seem to match up with what I know about AA and the 12 steps.
Thank you for the help, advice etc.
Grateful Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MI
Posts: 1,080
I have a daughter that suffers from personality disorder. Her doctors think she is developing schzophrenia as well. She went to rehab for drugs for 19 days, is home, and trying to stay out of trouble.
All I know about these disorders is that the person is literally not capable of caring for others as she should. I have found a LOT of help on the NAMI website, which is a website specifically for mental illness. I would start there and research the disorder. Also, keep in mind that no diagnosis of mental illness can be proven until a specific drug for that disorder alone is given, and it alleviates symptoms. Also, symtoms also worsen over time.
Can you go into counseling with her? Maybe find a therapist with specialties in both borderline PD and marriage counseling?
Good luck to you. The only thing thats kept me half sane is arming myself with all the knowledge I can find.
All I know about these disorders is that the person is literally not capable of caring for others as she should. I have found a LOT of help on the NAMI website, which is a website specifically for mental illness. I would start there and research the disorder. Also, keep in mind that no diagnosis of mental illness can be proven until a specific drug for that disorder alone is given, and it alleviates symptoms. Also, symtoms also worsen over time.
Can you go into counseling with her? Maybe find a therapist with specialties in both borderline PD and marriage counseling?
Good luck to you. The only thing thats kept me half sane is arming myself with all the knowledge I can find.
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3
Thanks Julez!
She has a quasi-diagnosis if that makes sense. We have a family therapist that she just recently started seeing again (last week) after 6 months of not. The therapist has been working with the kids and I for the past year though. She is the one that pointed me to BPD "without diagnosing" (double foot stomp). I go to NAMI classes every week but it seems as though my wife has really taken the AA identity now. She is attempting to paint the picture that she is the victim of abuse from her family and I throughout her life and is why she used/drank. This is called "waifing" in the BPD realm.
Since she has really taken to the AA identity though, I am wondering about that perspective from a sponsor or family member perspective specifically.
She has a quasi-diagnosis if that makes sense. We have a family therapist that she just recently started seeing again (last week) after 6 months of not. The therapist has been working with the kids and I for the past year though. She is the one that pointed me to BPD "without diagnosing" (double foot stomp). I go to NAMI classes every week but it seems as though my wife has really taken the AA identity now. She is attempting to paint the picture that she is the victim of abuse from her family and I throughout her life and is why she used/drank. This is called "waifing" in the BPD realm.
Since she has really taken to the AA identity though, I am wondering about that perspective from a sponsor or family member perspective specifically.
Om, Aum, Ohm...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,797
I was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder at 19, when I was in a dual-diagnosis unit and undergoing my first "treatment" for alcoholism. I didn't stay sober, and my current period of sobriety didn't begin until fifteen years later, in 2002. In the first few years of my sobriety, I would have told you that I received grace not only in my obsession with alcohol and drugs, but also in my mental health issues. Now, with a little more than a decade to look back on, I can see my recovery from BPD was more of a process than a sudden awakening.
While I didn't dig my heels in and refuse any step, I did drag out my fourth step, and my first 8th step wasn't as thorough or enthusiastic as it could have been. I didn't quite get that amends are more than "I'm sorry." In some, I asked, "How can I make this right?" but in others, I felt more like a hit-and-run apologist. I was still having difficulty separating the harm I had done to others from the harm I believed they had done to me. Thankfully, with the more serious harms I did to others, I was given another chance, most dramatically with my parents, whom I cared for at the end of their lives.
We "practice these principles," and that means we're not done with them. We get second and third and fourth, etc. chances, and so long as we don't pick up a drink as we practice, the benefits of this practice manifests in our lives over time. I had a few years under my belt before I completely disconnected from the victim identity. I recall moments when I recognized that my responses to situations and people were different -- they weren't BPD reactions anymore, but reasoned and measured responses. I work in the mental health field, and when I tell people my diagnosis, assure them I was "textbook," they find it hard to believe.
I understand your concern for your wife. If she remains willing to go to any length, wonderful things will come to pass. We with "grave emotional and mental disorders" can recover, too. All we really need is the capacity to be honest, and that must be present to get through the 4th & 5th steps.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
While I didn't dig my heels in and refuse any step, I did drag out my fourth step, and my first 8th step wasn't as thorough or enthusiastic as it could have been. I didn't quite get that amends are more than "I'm sorry." In some, I asked, "How can I make this right?" but in others, I felt more like a hit-and-run apologist. I was still having difficulty separating the harm I had done to others from the harm I believed they had done to me. Thankfully, with the more serious harms I did to others, I was given another chance, most dramatically with my parents, whom I cared for at the end of their lives.
We "practice these principles," and that means we're not done with them. We get second and third and fourth, etc. chances, and so long as we don't pick up a drink as we practice, the benefits of this practice manifests in our lives over time. I had a few years under my belt before I completely disconnected from the victim identity. I recall moments when I recognized that my responses to situations and people were different -- they weren't BPD reactions anymore, but reasoned and measured responses. I work in the mental health field, and when I tell people my diagnosis, assure them I was "textbook," they find it hard to believe.
I understand your concern for your wife. If she remains willing to go to any length, wonderful things will come to pass. We with "grave emotional and mental disorders" can recover, too. All we really need is the capacity to be honest, and that must be present to get through the 4th & 5th steps.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
Tough situation all the way around.
I am the addict/alcoholic wife with mental illness. He and his friends decided I am BPD, but my therapist and I are not so sure...anywhooo...
You are doing the right thing by taking care of yourself and your kids. Getting into recovery is no guarantee the marriage will right itself. Some of us DO "play" the role of recovering addict, often thinking we truly are doing it. Sometimes it takes a long time before we are capable of a level of honesty that leads to real growth. I know that was true for me.
I went through the motions for a long time, and little bits sank in until I reached a "critical mass" of honesty and was able to make any real headway.
I would advise you to not play "sponsor" as in judging how she is doing or how deeply she is doing her steps. I think it's unwise for spouses to do so, and better left up to a sponsor, there is less room for her claiming the sponsor has ulterior motives etc.
I am sorta stuck on 8 myself. It is truly hard for me to see how I've hurt some people. I don't see it. I don't necessarily see myself as victimized by many of them, but I truly don't have the perspective to stand back and understand my influence on others. As I continue in my recovery I hope and trust that I will grow to a point where I CAN see that, and own it. I'm not there yet.
For many of us it is difficult to feel as if we matter much to anyone...or thus have the importance to actually effect another. On the other hand, the thought that we DO have that much impact is TERRIFYING! It's a level of responsibility that we feel totally unwilling and unprepared for. It can be an extremely difficult thing for BPD's to come to terms with.
The "dont you see what your behavior is doing to..." line of reasoning often doesn't get very far..no, actually we DON'T. People who are busy running in a blind panic don't notice much of what is going on around them or who or what they are stepping on along the way.
For those of us who have been self medicating with booze and drugs, getting off them often unleashes some whole lotta ugly that needs to be addressed. People hope that getting clean will make us better, but there is often a period of "worse" before real healing begins.
My husband divorced me. I am continuing to work my recovery for ME. I accept that he had to do this for his own well being and so he can find happiness and freedom in his life. He could no longer deal with being strapped to my mental illness. I understand because I have often felt that way myself.
I would encourage her to stay in recovery, even if it looks like it's doing little good. She may hear things, learn things, grow and recover at her own pace, and maybe have a break through moment here and there. The end result might not be what you hope for, but recovery is worth working towards.
I am the addict/alcoholic wife with mental illness. He and his friends decided I am BPD, but my therapist and I are not so sure...anywhooo...
You are doing the right thing by taking care of yourself and your kids. Getting into recovery is no guarantee the marriage will right itself. Some of us DO "play" the role of recovering addict, often thinking we truly are doing it. Sometimes it takes a long time before we are capable of a level of honesty that leads to real growth. I know that was true for me.
I went through the motions for a long time, and little bits sank in until I reached a "critical mass" of honesty and was able to make any real headway.
I would advise you to not play "sponsor" as in judging how she is doing or how deeply she is doing her steps. I think it's unwise for spouses to do so, and better left up to a sponsor, there is less room for her claiming the sponsor has ulterior motives etc.
I am sorta stuck on 8 myself. It is truly hard for me to see how I've hurt some people. I don't see it. I don't necessarily see myself as victimized by many of them, but I truly don't have the perspective to stand back and understand my influence on others. As I continue in my recovery I hope and trust that I will grow to a point where I CAN see that, and own it. I'm not there yet.
For many of us it is difficult to feel as if we matter much to anyone...or thus have the importance to actually effect another. On the other hand, the thought that we DO have that much impact is TERRIFYING! It's a level of responsibility that we feel totally unwilling and unprepared for. It can be an extremely difficult thing for BPD's to come to terms with.
The "dont you see what your behavior is doing to..." line of reasoning often doesn't get very far..no, actually we DON'T. People who are busy running in a blind panic don't notice much of what is going on around them or who or what they are stepping on along the way.
For those of us who have been self medicating with booze and drugs, getting off them often unleashes some whole lotta ugly that needs to be addressed. People hope that getting clean will make us better, but there is often a period of "worse" before real healing begins.
My husband divorced me. I am continuing to work my recovery for ME. I accept that he had to do this for his own well being and so he can find happiness and freedom in his life. He could no longer deal with being strapped to my mental illness. I understand because I have often felt that way myself.
I would encourage her to stay in recovery, even if it looks like it's doing little good. She may hear things, learn things, grow and recover at her own pace, and maybe have a break through moment here and there. The end result might not be what you hope for, but recovery is worth working towards.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Western PA
Posts: 151
Originally Posted by Threshold 
Tough situation all the way around.
I am the addict/alcoholic wife with mental illness. He and his friends decided I am BPD, but my therapist and I are not so sure...anywhooo...
You are doing the right thing by taking care of yourself and your kids. Getting into recovery is no guarantee the marriage will right itself. Some of us DO "play" the role of recovering addict, often thinking we truly are doing it. Sometimes it takes a long time before we are capable of a level of honesty that leads to real growth. I know that was true for me.
I went through the motions for a long time, and little bits sank in until I reached a "critical mass" of honesty and was able to make any real headway.
I would advise you to not play "sponsor" as in judging how she is doing or how deeply she is doing her steps. I think it's unwise for spouses to do so, and better left up to a sponsor, there is less room for her claiming the sponsor has ulterior motives etc.
I am sorta stuck on 8 myself. It is truly hard for me to see how I've hurt some people. I don't see it. I don't necessarily see myself as victimized by many of them, but I truly don't have the perspective to stand back and understand my influence on others. As I continue in my recovery I hope and trust that I will grow to a point where I CAN see that, and own it. I'm not there yet.
For many of us it is difficult to feel as if we matter much to anyone...or thus have the importance to actually effect another. On the other hand, the thought that we DO have that much impact is TERRIFYING! It's a level of responsibility that we feel totally unwilling and unprepared for. It can be an extremely difficult thing for BPD's to come to terms with.
The "dont you see what your behavior is doing to..." line of reasoning often doesn't get very far..no, actually we DON'T. People who are busy running in a blind panic don't notice much of what is going on around them or who or what they are stepping on along the way.
For those of us who have been self medicating with booze and drugs, getting off them often unleashes some whole lotta ugly that needs to be addressed. People hope that getting clean will make us better, but there is often a period of "worse" before real healing begins.
My husband divorced me. I am continuing to work my recovery for ME. I accept that he had to do this for his own well being and so he can find happiness and freedom in his life. He could no longer deal with being strapped to my mental illness. I understand because I have often felt that way myself.
I would encourage her to stay in recovery, even if it looks like it's doing little good. She may hear things, learn things, grow and recover at her own pace, and maybe have a break through moment here and there. The end result might not be what you hope for, but recovery is worth working towards.
I am the addict/alcoholic wife with mental illness. He and his friends decided I am BPD, but my therapist and I are not so sure...anywhooo...
You are doing the right thing by taking care of yourself and your kids. Getting into recovery is no guarantee the marriage will right itself. Some of us DO "play" the role of recovering addict, often thinking we truly are doing it. Sometimes it takes a long time before we are capable of a level of honesty that leads to real growth. I know that was true for me.
I went through the motions for a long time, and little bits sank in until I reached a "critical mass" of honesty and was able to make any real headway.
I would advise you to not play "sponsor" as in judging how she is doing or how deeply she is doing her steps. I think it's unwise for spouses to do so, and better left up to a sponsor, there is less room for her claiming the sponsor has ulterior motives etc.
I am sorta stuck on 8 myself. It is truly hard for me to see how I've hurt some people. I don't see it. I don't necessarily see myself as victimized by many of them, but I truly don't have the perspective to stand back and understand my influence on others. As I continue in my recovery I hope and trust that I will grow to a point where I CAN see that, and own it. I'm not there yet.
For many of us it is difficult to feel as if we matter much to anyone...or thus have the importance to actually effect another. On the other hand, the thought that we DO have that much impact is TERRIFYING! It's a level of responsibility that we feel totally unwilling and unprepared for. It can be an extremely difficult thing for BPD's to come to terms with.
The "dont you see what your behavior is doing to..." line of reasoning often doesn't get very far..no, actually we DON'T. People who are busy running in a blind panic don't notice much of what is going on around them or who or what they are stepping on along the way.
For those of us who have been self medicating with booze and drugs, getting off them often unleashes some whole lotta ugly that needs to be addressed. People hope that getting clean will make us better, but there is often a period of "worse" before real healing begins.
My husband divorced me. I am continuing to work my recovery for ME. I accept that he had to do this for his own well being and so he can find happiness and freedom in his life. He could no longer deal with being strapped to my mental illness. I understand because I have often felt that way myself.
I would encourage her to stay in recovery, even if it looks like it's doing little good. She may hear things, learn things, grow and recover at her own pace, and maybe have a break through moment here and there. The end result might not be what you hope for, but recovery is worth working towards.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Our house is in a similar mess to 1hotmess.
Mrs. has been in AA for something like 16 years, but had a relapse about 6 or 7 years ago that she pretends did not exist. Picked up an Eating Disorder along the way, and is back a little over 100 days from Rehab for that.
That took away her coping mechanism and has been on and off the rails, since.
Seems to lie about any/everything. My daughter (in Alateen) and I (am in Alanon) started a list called 100 Lies in 100 Days so we could God Box it or something.
Dunno. It is a mess. The kids and I are just sort of making plans to go on with our lives with or without her.
The NAMI site has a pretty good tip sheet on dealing with a Mentally Ill spouse.
http://www.nami.org/Content/Microsit...Boundaries.doc
Mrs. has been in AA for something like 16 years, but had a relapse about 6 or 7 years ago that she pretends did not exist. Picked up an Eating Disorder along the way, and is back a little over 100 days from Rehab for that.
That took away her coping mechanism and has been on and off the rails, since.
Seems to lie about any/everything. My daughter (in Alateen) and I (am in Alanon) started a list called 100 Lies in 100 Days so we could God Box it or something.
Dunno. It is a mess. The kids and I are just sort of making plans to go on with our lives with or without her.
The NAMI site has a pretty good tip sheet on dealing with a Mentally Ill spouse.
http://www.nami.org/Content/Microsit...Boundaries.doc
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 125
Originally Posted by Hammer
Our house is in a similar mess to 1hotmess.
Mrs. has been in AA for something like 16 years, but had a relapse about 6 or 7 years ago that she pretends did not exist. Picked up an Eating Disorder along the way, and is back a little over 100 days from Rehab for that.
That took away her coping mechanism and has been on and off the rails, since.
Seems to lie about any/everything. My daughter (in Alateen) and I (am in Alanon) started a list called 100 Lies in 100 Days so we could God Box it or something.
Dunno. It is a mess. The kids and I are just sort of making plans to go on with our lives with or without her.
The NAMI site has a pretty good tip sheet on dealing with a Mentally Ill spouse.
http://www.nami.org/Content/Microsit...Boundaries.doc
Mrs. has been in AA for something like 16 years, but had a relapse about 6 or 7 years ago that she pretends did not exist. Picked up an Eating Disorder along the way, and is back a little over 100 days from Rehab for that.
That took away her coping mechanism and has been on and off the rails, since.
Seems to lie about any/everything. My daughter (in Alateen) and I (am in Alanon) started a list called 100 Lies in 100 Days so we could God Box it or something.
Dunno. It is a mess. The kids and I are just sort of making plans to go on with our lives with or without her.
The NAMI site has a pretty good tip sheet on dealing with a Mentally Ill spouse.
http://www.nami.org/Content/Microsit...Boundaries.doc
"We have found the WS must push doctors to try medications...
NAMI is a pharma front group, beware !
I guess I shoud post a quick link to back up a statement like that.
To be fair I will just post http://www.google.com/search?q=NAMI+...itical+funding
I was abused by psychiatry , I know what NAMI is (Med pushers) there funding comes from the pharma companies.
This link may further your understanding alcoholism and personality disorders.
Difference between Personality & Mood Disorders
Difference between Personality & Mood Disorder | Suite101
And http://www.google.com/search?q=setting+boundarys
Hammer, do the research on NAMI , they are pill pushers to the MAX !
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Thanks. We are SO Far away from Meds, that part is not really even an issue.
It is a secret who the T is, let alone if she really is going to T or not.
No argument about your observations, but we are a LONG way from forced, coerced, or mis-directed meds.
And besides, meds are reputed to not be too effective towards bpd, anyway.
On the practical side of things, I have three kids that are the real #1 priority, and none of them are named Mrs. Hammer.
She was on meds when we met (yes, I am a total dumbass and had no real understanding of that meant), and maybe or maybe not should be on meds, now. Dunno, she is not one of my kids. She is the mom, and I wish she were better in that regard, but wishes are what they are.
Here are some of the Practical Application Portions of the link . . .
(nothing to do with meds)
For a spouse, or sane parent, or whatever one wants to call the role . . . this and the rest is some pretty solid advice. That it seems (in my case) I need clearly stated to me.
============
THE TRUTH BOUNDARY
The Well Spouse must categorically refuse to hide the illness from children, extended family and friends. Only if the MIS is working is there justification for hiding the illness, and then only from work colleagues. Not telling creates enormous isolation. Not telling and talking creates enormous confusion for children. Not telling and talking prevents education. Not telling and talking prevents development of good coping skills. No Family Secrets! No Stigma! This is a biological brain disorder. It is an Illness, like any other.
===========
IDENTITY BOUNDARIES
In the initial experience of mental illness, the WS often is so consumed by trying to fight a battle he or she has little knowledge of that the WS loses his or her identity in the battle. It is like shooting darts in the dark, with no direction, no logic, and little success, but a tremendous gut feeling that something is seriously wrong. Often we hear spouses say, "And I knew if I left him, he would die". They are probably right! When the series of events and experiences is finally given a name, efforts to control its effects can begin to take on direction and become much more successful. After the initial diagnosis, it often seems that everything and everyone revolves around the MIS. The WS must find his or her identity once again, apart from the battle. The WS cannot fix the MIS, and should quit trying. Of course, the WS can help, but he or she must learn to let go and to find himself. Hobbies long abandoned must be rediscovered. Interests must be cultivated, children enjoyed, talents explored and expanded, knowledge exercised. Do nice things for yourself. Find freedom. Demand space. GET A LIFE.
================
MORAL BOUNDARIES
Mental illness does -- or does not make a person a nice person, worthy of your respect and love. The mentally ill can respect your moral boundaries even in the midst of
psychosis if you make them very clear. If the MIS is not willing to respect the WS's value structure, then the marriage may not survive. We do not tolerate violence, dishonesty, street drug use, sexual unfaithfulness, and criminal behavior. The WS must communicate grave consequences for these behaviors. The WS is deeply committed to the sanctity of marriage, and for the MIS to violate this value is profoundly discordant and intolerable to the WS. Often the WS's report that "the MIS never gave me a good excuse to leave" is because the WS's moral boundaries were never violated. That "non-occurrance" was not an accident. Rather, it illustrates commitment by the MIS to the marriage.
================
PRACTICAL BOUNDARIES
The Well Spouse will probably need to take over the practical, day to day responsibilities of the family. These responsibilities may include the following, depending upon the severity of the illness:
1. Making sure the family has a permanent place to live. Often Mentally ill persons will want to move and/or change jobs often, running from the illness and failures to cope. The WS must affirmatively and unequivocally put a stop to this constant moving. If the WS has the finances, he/she should buy a house, put down roots, and deal with reality.
2. Handling the finances. Most mentally ill persons do not handle money well. This may mean withdrawing credit cards from the MIS. This usually means setting up a separate checking account. This means paying all or nearly all of the bills. We have found that even when the WS has tried to share some bill paying responsibility with the MIS, it usually fails. If the WS is a woman who is not
working, she MUST get a job.
It is a secret who the T is, let alone if she really is going to T or not.
No argument about your observations, but we are a LONG way from forced, coerced, or mis-directed meds.
And besides, meds are reputed to not be too effective towards bpd, anyway.
On the practical side of things, I have three kids that are the real #1 priority, and none of them are named Mrs. Hammer.
She was on meds when we met (yes, I am a total dumbass and had no real understanding of that meant), and maybe or maybe not should be on meds, now. Dunno, she is not one of my kids. She is the mom, and I wish she were better in that regard, but wishes are what they are.
Here are some of the Practical Application Portions of the link . . .
(nothing to do with meds)
For a spouse, or sane parent, or whatever one wants to call the role . . . this and the rest is some pretty solid advice. That it seems (in my case) I need clearly stated to me.
============
THE TRUTH BOUNDARY
The Well Spouse must categorically refuse to hide the illness from children, extended family and friends. Only if the MIS is working is there justification for hiding the illness, and then only from work colleagues. Not telling creates enormous isolation. Not telling and talking creates enormous confusion for children. Not telling and talking prevents education. Not telling and talking prevents development of good coping skills. No Family Secrets! No Stigma! This is a biological brain disorder. It is an Illness, like any other.
===========
IDENTITY BOUNDARIES
In the initial experience of mental illness, the WS often is so consumed by trying to fight a battle he or she has little knowledge of that the WS loses his or her identity in the battle. It is like shooting darts in the dark, with no direction, no logic, and little success, but a tremendous gut feeling that something is seriously wrong. Often we hear spouses say, "And I knew if I left him, he would die". They are probably right! When the series of events and experiences is finally given a name, efforts to control its effects can begin to take on direction and become much more successful. After the initial diagnosis, it often seems that everything and everyone revolves around the MIS. The WS must find his or her identity once again, apart from the battle. The WS cannot fix the MIS, and should quit trying. Of course, the WS can help, but he or she must learn to let go and to find himself. Hobbies long abandoned must be rediscovered. Interests must be cultivated, children enjoyed, talents explored and expanded, knowledge exercised. Do nice things for yourself. Find freedom. Demand space. GET A LIFE.
================
MORAL BOUNDARIES
Mental illness does -- or does not make a person a nice person, worthy of your respect and love. The mentally ill can respect your moral boundaries even in the midst of
psychosis if you make them very clear. If the MIS is not willing to respect the WS's value structure, then the marriage may not survive. We do not tolerate violence, dishonesty, street drug use, sexual unfaithfulness, and criminal behavior. The WS must communicate grave consequences for these behaviors. The WS is deeply committed to the sanctity of marriage, and for the MIS to violate this value is profoundly discordant and intolerable to the WS. Often the WS's report that "the MIS never gave me a good excuse to leave" is because the WS's moral boundaries were never violated. That "non-occurrance" was not an accident. Rather, it illustrates commitment by the MIS to the marriage.
================
PRACTICAL BOUNDARIES
The Well Spouse will probably need to take over the practical, day to day responsibilities of the family. These responsibilities may include the following, depending upon the severity of the illness:
1. Making sure the family has a permanent place to live. Often Mentally ill persons will want to move and/or change jobs often, running from the illness and failures to cope. The WS must affirmatively and unequivocally put a stop to this constant moving. If the WS has the finances, he/she should buy a house, put down roots, and deal with reality.
2. Handling the finances. Most mentally ill persons do not handle money well. This may mean withdrawing credit cards from the MIS. This usually means setting up a separate checking account. This means paying all or nearly all of the bills. We have found that even when the WS has tried to share some bill paying responsibility with the MIS, it usually fails. If the WS is a woman who is not
working, she MUST get a job.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by Sugah
I was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder at 19, when I was in a dual-diagnosis unit and undergoing my first "treatment" for alcoholism. I didn't stay sober, and my current period of sobriety didn't begin until fifteen years later, in 2002. In the first few years of my sobriety, I would have told you that I received grace not only in my obsession with alcohol and drugs, but also in my mental health issues. Now, with a little more than a decade to look back on, I can see my recovery from BPD was more of a process than a sudden awakening.
While I didn't dig my heels in and refuse any step, I did drag out my fourth step, and my first 8th step wasn't as thorough or enthusiastic as it could have been. I didn't quite get that amends are more than "I'm sorry." In some, I asked, "How can I make this right?" but in others, I felt more like a hit-and-run apologist. I was still having difficulty separating the harm I had done to others from the harm I believed they had done to me. Thankfully, with the more serious harms I did to others, I was given another chance, most dramatically with my parents, whom I cared for at the end of their lives.
We "practice these principles," and that means we're not done with them. We get second and third and fourth, etc. chances, and so long as we don't pick up a drink as we practice, the benefits of this practice manifests in our lives over time. I had a few years under my belt before I completely disconnected from the victim identity. I recall moments when I recognized that my responses to situations and people were different -- they weren't BPD reactions anymore, but reasoned and measured responses. I work in the mental health field, and when I tell people my diagnosis, assure them I was "textbook," they find it hard to believe.
I understand your concern for your wife. If she remains willing to go to any length, wonderful things will come to pass. We with "grave emotional and mental disorders" can recover, too. All we really need is the capacity to be honest, and that must be present to get through the 4th & 5th steps.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
While I didn't dig my heels in and refuse any step, I did drag out my fourth step, and my first 8th step wasn't as thorough or enthusiastic as it could have been. I didn't quite get that amends are more than "I'm sorry." In some, I asked, "How can I make this right?" but in others, I felt more like a hit-and-run apologist. I was still having difficulty separating the harm I had done to others from the harm I believed they had done to me. Thankfully, with the more serious harms I did to others, I was given another chance, most dramatically with my parents, whom I cared for at the end of their lives.
We "practice these principles," and that means we're not done with them. We get second and third and fourth, etc. chances, and so long as we don't pick up a drink as we practice, the benefits of this practice manifests in our lives over time. I had a few years under my belt before I completely disconnected from the victim identity. I recall moments when I recognized that my responses to situations and people were different -- they weren't BPD reactions anymore, but reasoned and measured responses. I work in the mental health field, and when I tell people my diagnosis, assure them I was "textbook," they find it hard to believe.
I understand your concern for your wife. If she remains willing to go to any length, wonderful things will come to pass. We with "grave emotional and mental disorders" can recover, too. All we really need is the capacity to be honest, and that must be present to get through the 4th & 5th steps.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Say cheese!
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 3,379
Originally Posted by 1hotmess
I am married to a woman who is an alcoholic (recovering) with Borderline PD. She is not willing to admit to the PD part yet it seems to be affecting her recovery part. She seems to be stuck on step 8. she has been sober for a year now but seems to not be able to accept any wrong doing. She shuts down if I confront her about anything I have an issue with regarding her behavior or treatment of me, kids etc. I am concerned about her skipping steps. It is common for BPD's to be professional liars, and she certainly is no stranger to lying as an alcoholic. My question is what should I expect through this process? Will her sponsor ensure that she is making amends? What does that look like?
We have been separated due to her addictions and disorders for the past 14 months. I am committed to standing by her but she seems like she wants a divorce now. At least she tells me that. Doesn't seem to match up with what I know about AA and the 12 steps.
Thank you for the help, advice etc.
We have been separated due to her addictions and disorders for the past 14 months. I am committed to standing by her but she seems like she wants a divorce now. At least she tells me that. Doesn't seem to match up with what I know about AA and the 12 steps.
Thank you for the help, advice etc.
sry again for being sharp with u
Dismember
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The Mitten, USA
Posts: 1,641
I have a BPD diagnosis myself and am a recovering alcoholic. With Erratic, it's not the case that people with Borderline Disorder are necessarily liars. The issues we deal with may offer a deeper incentive to lie than what may be average for all others, but I think to equate BPD with automatic suspicion is counterfactual.
Where an eighth step and borderline can create difficulty is more with the way many of us struggle to keep realistic self-appraisals of our faults. What does lie within the criteria for a BPD diagnosis is evaluating ourselves and others with extreme, polarized judgment. Making an amend means apologizing and making up for past mistakes, but for many of us that sounds in our heads like "I made past mistakes and, therefore, I'm the worst human being who's ever lived and I don't deserve any forgiveness or support."
Her sponsor should be working with her on the 8th, yes. What that looks like will depend on her sponsor and herself. There's no formal procedure; it's not something a 12-stepper announces directly to the person they make amends with.
Where an eighth step and borderline can create difficulty is more with the way many of us struggle to keep realistic self-appraisals of our faults. What does lie within the criteria for a BPD diagnosis is evaluating ourselves and others with extreme, polarized judgment. Making an amend means apologizing and making up for past mistakes, but for many of us that sounds in our heads like "I made past mistakes and, therefore, I'm the worst human being who's ever lived and I don't deserve any forgiveness or support."
Her sponsor should be working with her on the 8th, yes. What that looks like will depend on her sponsor and herself. There's no formal procedure; it's not something a 12-stepper announces directly to the person they make amends with.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
