PuzzledHeart

It always gets messy when children are involved, and things are not so clear cut. I understand why you didn't block the daughter.

I do hope that girl is OK.

OpheliaKatz

I understand the need to be there for the daughter. Just a suggestion/question... are you the only person who can be there for the daughter? Are there services she can access that are helpful to her? Can someone else who was less emotionally involved help the daughter? Is the daughter old enough to seek help on her own? If not, can you report the situation to child services? Would you adopt the child -- is that a thing you can do? Do you want children? As long as you are in touch with the daughter, the mother can use her child to use you. In this way, the child's relationship with you is actually another way for her to be enmeshed in her mother's problems. Also, as an adult male, is it healthy for her to have a close relationship with you -- doesn't she have a peer group or aunts or uncles or grandparents... or a biological father? How often does the child call you for help? What does she need help with? If she needs a therapist, that's not you. If she needs someone to pick her up from school... does she have another relative... does she have a classmate's parent she can talk to? Do her teachers know what is going on? I apologize if you have answered these questions before in previous threads, I don't think I remember everything about your situation. I feel that as long as you keep the lines of communication open with this kid, because the kid is with the mother, you will also be keeping the lines of communication open for the mother.

HardLessons

Puzzledheart

She must have told the daughter that she was seeing me Thursday night. The daughter texted me on Friday from school. She wanted to say hi. We spoke a bit.

I wanted to ask her WTF is going on but didn't think it would be appropriate since she is only 14.

With what's going on the daughter is negatively affected. Any one living in the house hold would be negatively affected. I'm thinking the daughter maybe texted me just to see if I did see her mother. The daughter knows from the past I provided a lot of stability for their life.

Just so you know if things were to disintegrate from here the daughter would go back to living with her grandfather. she has done that in the past.

Its been a while now but I always told the daughter to keep my number in her phone & she can contacted me 24 / 7 whenever she feels she needs too. I cant block that kid.

HardLessons

Hi Ophelia

Your concern for the daughter touches my heart.

Without going into details the authorities are already involved. They apparently have been involved. I don't understand how they feel this is a good home life for a 14 year old.

I love that kid Ophelia. She is a wonderful & precious kid. Adopt her? Id give an arm & leg to have a chance like that in this world.

Her safety net is with her grandfather (mothers father). In the past during bad times she has lived with him. She is very close with her Pop. He has a stable home. That's where she would go. He lives close by.

Because of her age & the fact that I was not communicating with the mother, I never contact the daughter. I wanted to but I didn't think it appropriate. The only communication has been when she has contacted me. She contacted me twice in the past year.

PS the daughter knows the difference between me & the grandfather is that I know the situation of what's going on. The grandfather knows what went on in the past but they don't tell him what's going on current. The reason for it is because the grandfather still has custody of his grand daughter. The mother does not want to test those waters. So they don't tell him anything.

AnvilheadII

PS the daughter knows the difference between me & the grandfather is that I know the situation of what's going on. The grandfather knows what went on in the past but they don't tell him what's going on current. The reason for it is because the grandfather still has custody of his grand daughter. The mother does not want to test those waters. So they don't tell him anything.

ok, tweeeeeeeet, time out. the grandfather HAS custody of THIS granddaughter? but even tho sh!t has gone south, the alley cat, i mean mother, has not sent the child there for her own health and well being??? even tho grandpa lives close by?

any chance mama is on public assistance?

HardLessons

Anvilhead

The grandfather got custody many years ago when the mother went to prison. I cant quite remember but I think the father was also in jail at that time too. So the granddaughter went to live with the grandfather & he was awarded custody by the courts back then. The girl was young at the time I think like 4.

The mother never sought custody even after she got out of jail. When the mother was able to get a place to live, the daughter did come back to live with her I think she was 6 by then.

The mother couldn't face going to court for custody because she cant demonstrate a normal life. And she doesn't want any authority type figures asking questions or looking into her life.

I haven't been to their house in well over a year. I know from my recent conversation they are still in the house but things are deteriorating. I honestly don't know where the girl (daughter) is staying. Id be surprised if she wasn't still with the mother.

If I know one thing for certain nothing makes sense. The only reason I can think why they wouldn't send the girl to grandfathers house to live is the mother would be afraid she might not get her back. From my past experience I know they keep grandfather in the dark as to what goes on.

Over a year ago before I broke contact with her, there was discussion of going on public assistance. She was hesitant because again of scrutiny by official types. She has not had any medical insurance in many years. I don't know if she applied for public assistance. When you live well outside of main stream norms these types of things can be very tricky - if you know what I mean.

AnvilheadII

The mother couldn't face going to court for custody because she cant demonstrate a normal life. And she doesn't want any authority type figures asking questions or looking into her life.

oh pffft. poor thing. she can't demonstrate a normal life because she chooses NOT to lead a normal life, like get a job, stay off drugs, pay the bills, do what is best for the child always.

The only reason I can think why they wouldn't send the girl to grandfathers house to live is the mother would be afraid she might not get her back. From my past experience I know they keep grandfather in the dark as to what goes on.
even tho i her own words life is a big fat ugly mess right now. the house is not a safe clean healthy place, but she won't do the right thing and put her daughter where she is safe.

i asked about assistance, because she would get more $$ by having a minor child with her. so the kid is just another resource, bargaining chip, sympathy card to pull.

i know you see this woman as some tragic angel.......hardly.........

Ann

I am sorry you are going through this and that things are a mess.

But things don't have to be a mess. You were okay until she walked back into your life through text or phone. The daughter can be okay if she goes to live with the grandfather...someone needs to get that back in place but it should be grandpa who needs to know what is going on and step in once more to get this child to a safe place.

The centre of this 3 ring circus of dysfunction is her....always will be her until she decided to find a better path and that doesn't look like it will happen any time soon. You can't reason with insanity and she is choosing an insane life and would just like everyone to accept her as she is and sacrifice their own peace for her.

This is just my perspective but as the mama of an adult addict I have seen the play, bought the T-shirt and as many times as I watched re-runs, the ending was always the same.

My heart and prayers go out for you, this obviously hurts your heart. It may be a good time to take a giant step back and give her life back to her, dysfunction and all. Since you text with the daughter, it might be good to suggest she goes to her Grandpa's but the outcome of this is not up to you.

I am glad you are reading and processing our thoughts here. Anvil has a short and clear way of getting right to it. Wise lady, and I am glad you respect that she cares and she answers. We all care and are walking with you through this.

SmallButMighty

You are right Hardlessons, this is a crappy update.

She blew through your boundaries by using her daughter's phone, knowing damn well you'd answer, then proceeded to give you the sob story and want your help fixing it . Not only text correspondence but then physical interaction.

That run down I just gave is so full of dysfunction it makes me want to spit the vile taste out of my mouth.

You took a few sips man, you do NOT have to finish the bottle.


P.S. It breaks my heart nobody loves that teenage girl enough to do what is best for her. Having spent her formative years with a JUNKIE has NOT been in her best interest... there isn't words to describe to you how I feel about that.

hopeful4

Sending you a hug and lots of support!

FireSprite

If grandpa has legal custody & mom gets caught up in more problems & issues - who do you think is going to end up in trouble if/when the crapola hits the fan?

Don't you think that if he has legal custody of the child, he deserves to know what's happening to her? If you want to seriously help her HL, help her get to a safer living environment. You cannot help mom - but you CAN help DD.

Stop protecting the mom - she's made her choices. She's afraid she'll lose her daughter? TOO BAD. Maybe she needs to. Sorry - I'm in NO frame of mind to have more compassion for an adult choosing to drown vs. an innocent child being taken out as collateral damage.

If she were trying & failing it would be different - that's not what this is. Don't be complicit in helping her protect herself from scrutiny at the expense of her DD's well being.

Hechosedrugs

yes!

HardLessons

FYI. I’m typing from my cell phone. I am out of town for work

A lot of what I said. Previously in this post. Is speculation based on what I’ve known from the past

I have not been in their lives. For well over a year. April 2017 was the last time I saw them at their house. The last time I spent any time with them

When the mother recently contacted me. I listened. I talked just lite talk. I did not ask questions about problems. I did not dig deeper. I did not want to go deeper. I heard enough. I didn’t ask any of the. questions of who what where & how long

There is always a chance. She is BS.ing Me. That’s why I met her the next day. I wanted to see if it was all. Real. I wanted to see what condition she was in. We met in the parking lot of a public place lace for 30 minutes

AnvilHead. Yes. You are right. Her logic concerning her daughter. Is moronic. & makes no sense. I have fought her on how can you do what you do. But yet say you want to be a good mother. Fought for months over it. Got nowhere. I don’t have the strength. To fight that battle. Again.

The daughter father is also a long term heroine addict. Still. Is

The grandfather. Knows. All. Of the story from the past. I’ve never met him. I don’t know what he knows now. I do know he ain’t young.

I don’t know if she did anything concerning. Assistance. She talked about it over. a year ago. She didn’t look to me like she has any medical care.

The last I heard from her was Friday night

To me. Hers is a very sad story. But. The bad addictions. Part of her are ugly beyond words. There is nothing angelic about any of it. I don’t look at her that way at all. Especially today.

I understand your message. I agree with you. Hope above clarifies a bit

HardLessons

FS. & SMB

Over the years Maybe you don’t know how much I have done to try to make their life better. I have done everything.

I’m not sure. What more I can do

Ok. I took a sip. I wanted to know wtf. Was going on. It’s hard for me as a man just. To turn my back on. Her.

What do I do here. I’ve tried everything. Before. The authorities. Are involved. Now. They have been involved. They have been to the house. Many times. They know who lives there.

I. Read what you wrote. About being upset by all this beyond words. If your upset just by reading this. Then try to imagine how I feel actively living it. For years. It’s a miracle I’m even still alive. The whole thing is one giant CF

I did tell. her the message recently. Her life is. in her hands. Not mine. It’s always been in her hands

SmallButMighty

Asked with respect and gentleness...Has anyone asked the girl where she would prefer to live? Has anyone considered telling Pops whats going on and let him make a decision about his precious granddaughter and legal ward? I understand he isn't young, but the girl isn't a baby, she doesn't need her diaper changed, she is able to cook and clean up after herself and maybe even help her Pops.

I know this is ripping you apart HL. Nothing I said was meant to hurt you, it's all such an awful mess. This woman is not just ruining her life, she's ruining her daughters chances at a good life. And I'm not going to beat you up about the contact, but it goes to prove that interaction with this person will never, ever bring you anything but pain and torment.

If you want to champion for the kid, there are things you can try. Her mother would hate every one of them and hate you even more for "going against her"... It would get way uglier than it already is and you'd have to be OK with that ugliness. You'd have to be OK with her hating you and never understanding or respecting that you did it for the good of the child. She can't see beyond her own selfish point of view, active addicts never can.

You picked off the scab and now it's gotta heal all over again. You know that can't happen when you keep letting her pour salt in the wound.

There are other people who can help her. There ARE resources out there, even for addicts. She can only manipulate your loving and giving nature if you let her.

***Hugs*** for you friend. I know this is brutally painful, please don't get pulled back into the thick of it.

HardLessons

Hi Ann

Yes I was doing ok before this happened last week. Just so you know I am upset but I am ok. How could I not be upset.

Like I said previously I don't know the grandfather never met him. But I do know the mother & father of the daughter put this grandfather through hell. They were both all messed up on drugs. It was all in the news and they both ended up in jail. We are talking years in jails not days weeks or months.

I don't know how much this grandfather even wants to get involved. So its a big leap to assume he does. I have no clue.

The mother doesn't want real help. She wanted me last week to bail her out. Even though it would be a significant amount of money (several thousand) it would just be a temporary six of the symptoms to a much larger problem.

Before I would have rushed in and it would already be taken care of. This time I didn't.

Ann I appreciate your offers of prayers - but please don't pray for me. Please pray for a mother addict & her very dear young teen daughter. I know you don't know them but they need help

I posted this update because I need advice.

Thanks

HardLessons

Hi SBM

The young girl is of no relation to me. She does know I have been heavily involved helping in the past. I did a lot specifically for the young girl.

For over a year now this young girl hasn't seen me. During that time she has contacted me twice. I spoke to her both times. Just simple conversation. I don't contact her she is a minor I am a grown man. I have no permission from anyone to contact her. I have to be careful.

After not seeing me for over a year, how much do you think the young girl trusts me. She knows I left & didn't talk to anyone for a year. I doubt at this point she trusts me very much. She knows the mother recently contacted me. I dnt think this daughter would tell me a thing at this point. She has my number she could text me & say please help me.

SBM my story for years has been nothing but ugly. There were good times but the good never lasted for long.

I have asked myself recently is this gods will that she contacted in a big mess. Do I just turn my back & look the other way. Probably like everyone else will including the grandfather.

The mother once told me & recently reminded me that she is more than capable of living out of her car & has done it in the past for over a year. I get really mad at her when she says that because of the daughter & how it will effect her. The mother can go into hard core street survival mode. She has done it before.

I am weary from years of this. I'm fearful something bad will happen far worse than what is happening. I cant go back into the thick of it I don't have the strength. I'm not sure I can just turn my back & walk away either.

Thank you for your advice & concern I know this is all very emotional

This needs divine intervention then I think maybe god already did that & that's why she contacted me. I don't know.

Is there an amount of money worth spending to save the daughter so she doesn't have to experience this nightmare? Yes the mother gets saved but so does the daughter.

Thanks

PuzzledHeart

You can't save everybody.

The mother is on her own path and nobody but her can get her out of it.

However, for the daughter, somebody should be there for her. You've never met the grandfather, so your perspective of him sounds to be completely through the filter of the mother. Like SmallButMighty said, what does the daughter say about her living situation?

She's between a rock and a hard place - who the hell wants to speak up against their own parent? I see it with my own nieces. It's definitely tricky to stay involved in their lives without entangling with their mother.

I do know of one situation where a man successfully adopted his ex-girlfriend's daughter. She fortunately had enough presence of mind to recognize that her girl was much better off with him than with her.

But otherwise, no advice, just sympathy.

AnvilheadII

This needs divine intervention then I think maybe god already did that & that's why she contacted me. I don't know.

She wanted me last week to bail her out. Even though it would be a significant amount of money (several thousand)

she contacted you because she knows you have bank and have thrown money at her problems before. she knew exactly how to get to you....using the kids phone.

the daughter can go to the grandfather's at any time - he does not live far away and he has CUSTODY. there is nothing for YOU to do.....she has a safety plan, a safe place to go. the mother doesn't CARE about the welfare of the child, she cares about herself. the kid is currency.

all this swirl of chaos was going on before CONTACT last thursday.
nothing has changed in five days.
except now you feel impelled to "help"
let's replay the tape...........about four years ago.........you should be getting an eery sense of deja vu right about now........poor down her luck mother of one ten year old, oh life has been soooo hard for her......all she needs is a little hand out, a little charity.....

and here we are - four years later and what has CHANGED in her life? has she improved?
climbed her way out?
got her sh1t together?
become a strong dedicated mother who will do anything to make sure her child has a safe, happy, healthy environment in which to thrive and grow???

yeah..........no.

but she knows where the cashcow is........even went so low as to use the kid's phone to contact you.....to ask for money.

tomsteve

Anvil brings up an excellent point,HL.
she contacted you because she knows you have bank and have thrown money at her problems before. she knew exactly how to get to you....using the kids phone.

didnt contract to say,"thank you greatly for your help. i was in a very bad place and used you. i have gone to rehab. i have been clean for xx time. i was very selfish and self centered and used you greatly for my own selfish means. i know that wasnt right now and would like to repay you for everything but it will take time. would it be possible to send you $xx monthly?"

heres what it reads like from my view:
she was diggin a hole for herself and daughter. getting deep.
you came into the picture. tossed a lot of money her way, fell in love with a dream, got lost, came close to the looney bin yourself, ended up here.

started working on yourself. stopped contact.
she kept digging that hole with no consideration about the welfare of her daughter still( if there was true consideration of that she would have made the right move and put her in a safe invironment), got deep, knew your number was in her daughters phone, and instead of trying to dig herself out is trying to pull you back into the hole with her.

Is there an amount of money worth spending to save the daughter so she doesn't have to experience this nightmare? Yes the mother gets saved but so does the daughter.

i dont know but this sure reads like rationalizing to me. theres many ways to help the daughter without tossin money at/to mom. she has a legal guardian,right? the grandfather?
then again, i am thinkin there is more to the story- like the state is stepping in and going to take the daughter away from both mom and grandpa maybe? and by your own admission, want to step in and TRY tosave them again.

also, you havent been able to "save" mom by tossing cash her way before. what makes you believe it'll work this time?

you didnt cause it
cant control it
cant cure it