tomsteve

this could be the trouble necessary- without outside help- for her to see the light.

dont get in the way of someone hitting their bottom.

TLC

Hard Lessons,
You and I have watched each other go through some ups/downs this last year. I watched as you did something it took me longer to do, and that was go "no contact"! While you had additional things you did to gain strength, a really important one was "no contact"!
Yes, you have come a long way. I've watched and listened to you gain strength and insight. You've done great!
Yes, you are stronger and yes you have an extra "hook" with the daughter and rightly concerned for her. I take nothing from that.

But, pardon me when I say, reading these posts it seems a lot like you are back in. All the details of the current drama "she did this and that". If you weren't being pulled back in, I don't think you would be this involved with the matters at hand. It seems you can't do anything for the situation and if you could, would it help her at all or just keep her propped up and "going"/using. Even giving advice, keeps you in play. While I don't know the details... As she finds someone yet again to pull her out of the trouble she's got herself into.
There is sooooo much drama with these "users" They use their substance(s) of choice and they use us.
Tred careful my friend, it feels a lot like slippery ground to me.
TLC

Gm0824

You've learnt a lot from that situation, no? We both know there is no blame there, only growth. Your eyes are open but as you are looking across the fence, remember you can't control what is in another adults yard.

As Tomsteve would say ... "It WAS an ugly situation .... there, fixed that for ya"

I truly mean it when I say the world is better for people like you. But you cannot help someone who doesn't want it for themselves. My heart also aches for her daughter but as someone shared with me about my own children ... if we have faith in a higher power for ourselves and our life then we have to trust the daughter has one also. She has to walk the life she has to make her into the person she was destined to be ... could be someone amazing. I found comfort in that statement, and hope you do also. Take it easy on yourself, you did more that most would already.

TLC

Hardlessons,

Thinking of you.

TLC

HardLessons

Hopeful & atalose

Yes you are both correct she contacted me recently because she is in a deep world of heavy duty problems & stress. She without question wants help from me. She would love nothing better than for me to bail her out.

She has problems going on which I cant help with they are too far gone & in the hands of the court. (I'm not talking about addiction) Other problems would take a large financial commitment. We are talking big money.

From talking with her recently over the past year there were various continuing problems. Same as there were all along. Some were major problems. She did leave me alone through those. Things are really bad now and that's why she reached out.

I understand that this is beyond me. I understand your concern. I agree with your concern.

Thank you both.

HardLessons

tomsteve

From your lips to gods ears concerning what you said below. Yes maybe your right. I hold no hope for that outcome but who knows maybe this is god's plan for her.

Time will tell.

trailmix

No. If you jump in and give the Mother money you are enabling her and you are then part of the problem, not the solution. Doing her Mother in isn't really helping the Daughter.

The only good part of this whole thing is the Daughter is already 14 so in 4 years she can escape this hell called "home".

Why not get creative and set up a college fund for her or something, give her something to look forward to? Let her know about it then drop it until she is ready for college.

No need to enable the addict to help the Daughter.

HardLessons

Hi TLC

Yes quite a journey now isn't it.

I am much better at giving advice than I am doing what needs to be done myself. Especially with HER. LOL I'm sure several on SR were thinking oh HL is doing so well. He is recovering nicely & posting helpful info to others. Then out of the blue bam!

This isn't very easy for me. Its never been very easy for me dealing with her.

She was recently going through a list of problems I said these are problems yes but they are only symptoms of a much deeper problem she said huh what? I said the root real problem is addictions. These are only symptoms of the real problem. You need to fix the real problem. She didn't have much to say after that.

I don't know where this goes or how it ends up. I am thinking more clearly than ever when in communication with her.

Please don't give up on me. Thank you for your comments . I read them & took them to heart. Thank you TLC for thinking of me.

HardLessons

GM

Such a profound statement below extremely powerful. I have thought of it before. That her life as it is (daughter) - is part of God / HP plan. That this will make her strong & help her in her adult life. I hope & pray its true.

Good words & thank you.

"My heart also aches for her daughter but as someone shared with me about my own children ... if we have faith in a higher power for ourselves and our life then we have to trust the daughter has one also. She has to walk the life she has to make her into the person she was destined to be ... could be someone amazing. I found comfort in that statement, and hope you do also"

HardLessons

Trailmix

Your right & wonderful idea. I already put that into place about two years ago. There was never any issue for me to put my money where my mouth was. I would do anything I could for this kid.

The only relationship I have with the daughter is through / with the mother. There is no or ever has been a separate relationship.

Below is good advice - we think alike.

"Why not get creative and set up a college fund for her or something, give her something to look forward to? Let her know about it then drop it until she is ready for college.

No need to enable the addict to help the Daughter. "

AnvilheadII

She was recently going through a list of problems I said these are problems yes but they are only symptoms of a much deeper problem she said huh what? I said the root real problem is addictions. These are only symptoms of the real problem. You need to fix the real problem. She didn't have much to say after that.

i believe only ONE of you thinks there are underlying issues that need to be addressed. and i believe only ONE of you thinks she needs to be "saved".

the other person just wants someone else to fix her messes.
the other person just wants someone else to throw money at the messes she has made.

she didn't accidentally FALL into the tiger pit at the zoo.....she jumped in with a 10 pound Porterhouse!

tomsteve

my man, ya dont have to be concerned with any of us giving up on ya.
my concern(and maybe a few others here,too) is you giving up on yourself.

TLC

Hardlessons,

Not about to give up on you. We've been there for each other, starting this journey about the same time. You are doing great and weathering this storm far better than I could at this point. Good grief, I just had an emotional melt down this morning to find out we will both be at an event in about 2 months. (I probably won't go, not ready to be in the same room with him, don't want to risk getting hurt by his abusive behavior). Can only recommend not "dancing" with her. Protect yourself. The dialogue alone keeps playing on our well intended caring nature.

I completely second what Atalose said...

They seem to navigate to people that will help in some way. They can't or won't hear or see how their addiction and subsequent skewed mental perspective gets them In trouble time and again. I have heard so many recovering addicts say "I never had a problem with using, its other people that had the issue with my using".

Post by Atalose: "i believe only ONE of you thinks there are underlying issues that need to be addressed. and i believe only ONE of you thinks she needs to be "saved".

We have come a long way, but the road is still bumpy and there are still potential rabbit holes to navigate around.

Take care of yourself
TLC

HardLessons

Hi Anvilhead

Concerning what you wrote below - yes aint that the sad truth. Im not jumping in that tiger pit again with steaks strapped to me. Ive been there & done that.

BTW I hope one day comes when she proves us both wrong. Its just a whisper of a hope on my part.

"i believe only ONE of you thinks there are underlying issues that need to be addressed. and i believe only ONE of you thinks she needs to be "saved".

the other person just wants someone else to fix her messes.
the other person just wants someone else to throw money at the messes she has made.

she didn't accidentally FALL into the tiger pit at the zoo.....she jumped in with a 10 pound Porterhouse! "

HardLessons

tomsteve

Thank you for your words below.

There are just like blips of communication going on. I am not instigating any conversation. No plans are being discussed to meet. No plans to come over & hang out type of thing.

I don't really want to see her. There is just too much going on with her now & I don't want to see it or be that close to it.

I would love to see the daughter & talk to her face to face. But that wont happen without the mother being involved. So that isn't going to happen.

Im not saying this current situation is easy for me because its not. I am keeping distance. I have to make some decisions here.

"my man, ya dont have to be concerned with any of us giving up on ya.
my concern(and maybe a few others here,too) is you giving up on yourself. "

HardLessons

Hi TLC

Im very sorry that you are experiencing emotional stress with your situation. Not going to that event is completely understandable.

I don't know if there is a difference between men & woman who find themselves in our type of situation. But I think there might be differences & I also know other parts are exactly the same.

I do have a stable life. I consider myself to be smart, well educated, strong, successful businessman type person. However she knows I have a very soft spot in my heart when it comes to her, her life circumstance, & her daughter. My life experiences never prepared me for this type of situation. A situation which defies logic & reason.

She knows I can be a tough SOB but she also knows I bark loudly but don't bite. The only bite that has taken place is being apart for a year.

At this point she isn't pushing my buttons like before. She knows I am keeping a distance. She knows things between us are not like they once were. The closeness is gone.

During the times we do commutate now I am taking the opportunity to talk briefly about seeking recovery. I did that countless times in t he past. Sometimes calmly & other times screaming, cursing, yelling, & stomping feet. She is listening to me now. I am keeping the message short, to the point, & calm. But like before she is not engaging much in that topic of conversation.

Yes this is a very difficult road to travel. Im very sorry for anyone who finds themselves on this road.

Maybe my part now is to deliver a message to her. I don't know. I do know that no matter how much I want to embrace her - I just cant. I cant go down that road again.

I tried for years to help create a stable decent life for her. At one time she had it made. She is back living on the edge now. By her own choices. I cant watch her go over that edge. I cant save her from the edge. I do know only she can do that.

Thanks for not giving up on me.

AnvilheadII

how ya doing, HL?

HardLessons

Hi Anvilhead

I'm here haven't gone anywhere.

There isn't much going on. I am hearing from her in bits. There is no talk of meeting or making any plans.

She isn't bringing up problems when I do hear from her. I am not bringing up problems when I hear from her. I am not offering up any solutions. She is not pushing my buttons.

There is a distance between us from not talking or seeing each other for a year. I am keeping a distance. She also seems to be keeping a distance.

There are however numerous major problems which she made me aware of. I've never been in a position with her where I knew about major problems but didn't jump in to help. So this is all new.

I have a lot of thinking to do. I guess as is the case with everything I've ever tried to do with her - nothing is easy.

I am thankful for your support & all the support I have gotten on SR.

I am ok but I have to figure this out.

Freedom1990

I've been on both sides of the fence, as an alcoholic/addict (now in long-term recovery), and as a recovering codependent.

My personal experience is that codependency is ever so cunning, baffling, and powerful, just like the diseases of addiction and alcoholism. I've been sucked ever so subtly and over time into screaming codependency with both of my daughters.

As for finding peace, I sleep well at night knowing I have placed both of them into God's loving hands. Just my two cents. Hugs from Kansas.

HardLessons

Hi Freedom

Thanks for writing me.

Congratulations on your recovery. You can be very proud of yourself & I wish you all the best.

I hope God's will is at work in my situation.

Thanks