Crappy Update
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Again, said with gentleness, kindness and concern..... I think you are standing to close to the picture HL. Take a step back. You are not seeing that there are many options in this situation. You are not the only resource but you have been manipulated into thinking you hold the answers... if only you could just figure out what that was... you see the toxicity here yes?
I realize there are things you can't tell us for reasons of anonymity, but we really don't need the details to understand the story. I know it's unique to you, but it's actually not a unique situation.
The Grandfather being left out of the loop is absolutely baffling to me. I can't wrap my head around why someone hasn't informed him of the desperate situation his granddaughter is in. He isn't some vague fixture in the back ground, he is her Pops, her flesh and blood, her legal friggin guardian. We don't actually know how he would or wouldn't react to the situation because NO ONE HAS TOLD HIM what's going on!!!
There are ways to help the daughter without helping the mother. In fact the mother should not be "helped" as that would be enabling not helping. She is using her kid as a ploy to tug on your heart strings so that you can save HER ass, not the kid. If her first concern was the kid she would've surrendded her a long time ago and not had her witness her mom being a junkie and all the crap and rough lifestyle that's come with it.
I know you feel like her only option HL, you aren't. Try not to take on that burden yet again. Don't stand in the way of her consequences, that will do more harm than good.
You actually CAN turn and walk away from this mess, it is not yours to clean up. I know that is counter to your nature, but maybe that is your lesson to learn in all of this, be it ever so humbling.
I do know how much you have contributed them in the past, that does not obligate you to further investing in this train wreck.
Its a horrible mess, my heart hurts for you and breaks for that 14yr old girl.
I realize there are things you can't tell us for reasons of anonymity, but we really don't need the details to understand the story. I know it's unique to you, but it's actually not a unique situation.
The Grandfather being left out of the loop is absolutely baffling to me. I can't wrap my head around why someone hasn't informed him of the desperate situation his granddaughter is in. He isn't some vague fixture in the back ground, he is her Pops, her flesh and blood, her legal friggin guardian. We don't actually know how he would or wouldn't react to the situation because NO ONE HAS TOLD HIM what's going on!!!
There are ways to help the daughter without helping the mother. In fact the mother should not be "helped" as that would be enabling not helping. She is using her kid as a ploy to tug on your heart strings so that you can save HER ass, not the kid. If her first concern was the kid she would've surrendded her a long time ago and not had her witness her mom being a junkie and all the crap and rough lifestyle that's come with it.
I know you feel like her only option HL, you aren't. Try not to take on that burden yet again. Don't stand in the way of her consequences, that will do more harm than good.
You actually CAN turn and walk away from this mess, it is not yours to clean up. I know that is counter to your nature, but maybe that is your lesson to learn in all of this, be it ever so humbling.
I do know how much you have contributed them in the past, that does not obligate you to further investing in this train wreck.
Its a horrible mess, my heart hurts for you and breaks for that 14yr old girl.
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HL, I can feel the emotion in your words. You've received some awesome perspectives already from members. Like you said, I always look for Anvil's posts and she has an intuitive tell it like it is style but so do you! I see your words of wisdom and helpfulness to others all the time. Now is the time to be extra diligent on your own well being, recovery and life. You know very well where this road leads, reads to me like you are on the fence about traveling it again. You are one heck of a person with a huge heart. Our world is made better by people like you. I'm sure you are feeling emotionally exhausted with all of this, take care of you, friend.
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I’ve been away and just catching up here on your thread Hardlessons and see that you have chosen to play on the emotional railroad tracks once again. Just don’t forget the hurt the power of that train and her passengers hits you with!
That is the hoped for fantasy we all want for our loved ones, receiving a phone call or message that they are clean/sober and have been for a long while and would like to get together for a cup of coffee and talk. But the minute we realize that is not the case we’ve already spent too long in contact with them. Anything further is like opening up that healing scar and shaking the same old salt into it.
Reminds me of a quote I kept near my phone for a long time………….when the past comes calling don’t answer it, it has nothing new to say.
There is an emotional side and a physical side, you are being drawn back in on the emotional side. Her daughter and her daughters wellbeing pulling on your heartstrings. I have no doubt that you will stand strong with your boundaries of not giving out any money, not bailing her out of the mess she has yet again created and not allow yourself to be used for your wallet. But it’s that emotional side that needs your full attention right now. Finding a healthy way to break away from a powerful sense and though of feeling responsible, responsible for an innocent child who is also caught in the middle of someone else’s addiction. The best way for that is with the facts not fantasy. Facts that she has others watching out for her, a grandfather, possibly a child advocate agency, teachers, etc. Not someone that she has only had 2 text conversations with in the last year, that is not the person to be responsible for her emotional and physical wellbeing no matter what that person keeps telling himself. The fantasy that we can be their savors, that God has made us their divine intervention is “fantasy” and “ego” and we need to get out of God’s way so he can do his own work.
No new contact = no new hurts my friend.
I had hoped during our time apart that things would be ok with her & her life.
Reminds me of a quote I kept near my phone for a long time………….when the past comes calling don’t answer it, it has nothing new to say.
There is an emotional side and a physical side, you are being drawn back in on the emotional side. Her daughter and her daughters wellbeing pulling on your heartstrings. I have no doubt that you will stand strong with your boundaries of not giving out any money, not bailing her out of the mess she has yet again created and not allow yourself to be used for your wallet. But it’s that emotional side that needs your full attention right now. Finding a healthy way to break away from a powerful sense and though of feeling responsible, responsible for an innocent child who is also caught in the middle of someone else’s addiction. The best way for that is with the facts not fantasy. Facts that she has others watching out for her, a grandfather, possibly a child advocate agency, teachers, etc. Not someone that she has only had 2 text conversations with in the last year, that is not the person to be responsible for her emotional and physical wellbeing no matter what that person keeps telling himself. The fantasy that we can be their savors, that God has made us their divine intervention is “fantasy” and “ego” and we need to get out of God’s way so he can do his own work.
No new contact = no new hurts my friend.
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I just went and caught up on the backstory here.....my first thought when I read "crappy update" was you were implying it was a crappy update for her but my thought was it was a crappy update for you because you were back on the "juice" so to speak (meaning yes you took a drink). My second thought was when I read the backstory have you explored what you're getting out of this relationship? What is in it for you? I read that there was no physical stuff so it can't be an I'm in love scenario. When I was with my XRAH I found I liked to help him to avoid dealing with my own issues....only when I looked at me and not at him was I able to heal.
I also wanted to say something about the daughter. I have a friend who was in really the worst codependent relationship I've ever seen with her XAH (she managed to get the divorce which was good...but she still "cares for" "loves" and helps him). She knew she shouldn't but she kept using his son as her reason she needed to stay in contact. I told her I thought she was using the son as an excuse to stay in contact and her enabling was actually getting in the way of the son getting the real help he needed....long story short the teenage son wasn't in school, rarely if ever had food, was left in the car while dad gambled the disability money they got for rent, was evicted multiple times and was hotel hopping with dad for his shelter. She kept giving money, food etc...helping. Finally her mom, me and some others talked her into calling social services...they did NOTHING believe it or not....we are in a large city and they said they'd seen much worse so his situation wasn't dire enough yet. So she continued to enable. Well her HP finally stepped in, her dad needed her to visit out of state (he's ill)...so she couldn't not go....leaving her XAH and son on their own for almost a week. Well...guess what happened? The XAH got a DUI with the son in the car and that was bad enough for social services to take him. The son while not with is dad is now sheltered, fed and in school...and they are looking for a foster for him. He misses his dad but is 100 million times happier and better off.
So her stepping out of the way for a week saved the son...her enabling actually kept the son in the situation.
Every situation is different but I just thought that share might be relevant with this daughter situation in some way or might resonate.
I also wanted to say something about the daughter. I have a friend who was in really the worst codependent relationship I've ever seen with her XAH (she managed to get the divorce which was good...but she still "cares for" "loves" and helps him). She knew she shouldn't but she kept using his son as her reason she needed to stay in contact. I told her I thought she was using the son as an excuse to stay in contact and her enabling was actually getting in the way of the son getting the real help he needed....long story short the teenage son wasn't in school, rarely if ever had food, was left in the car while dad gambled the disability money they got for rent, was evicted multiple times and was hotel hopping with dad for his shelter. She kept giving money, food etc...helping. Finally her mom, me and some others talked her into calling social services...they did NOTHING believe it or not....we are in a large city and they said they'd seen much worse so his situation wasn't dire enough yet. So she continued to enable. Well her HP finally stepped in, her dad needed her to visit out of state (he's ill)...so she couldn't not go....leaving her XAH and son on their own for almost a week. Well...guess what happened? The XAH got a DUI with the son in the car and that was bad enough for social services to take him. The son while not with is dad is now sheltered, fed and in school...and they are looking for a foster for him. He misses his dad but is 100 million times happier and better off.
So her stepping out of the way for a week saved the son...her enabling actually kept the son in the situation.
Every situation is different but I just thought that share might be relevant with this daughter situation in some way or might resonate.
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"However, for the daughter, somebody should be there for her. You've never met the grandfather, so your perspective of him sounds to be completely through the filter of the mother. Like SmallButMighty said, what does the daughter say about her living situation?
She's between a rock and a hard place - who the hell wants to speak up against their own parent? I see it with my own nieces. It's definitely tricky to stay involved in their lives without entangling with their mother."
Puzzledheart
Yes what I know of the grandfather is only through the filter of the mother & to a much lesser extent what the daughter has said about him. I know nothing of him directly.
Again the young daughter has only contacted me twice in over a year. They are relatively brief contacts. Its just lite talk I don't question her about what's going on. She seemed happy is all I can say. She said nothing wither time about any problems. She didn't even ask where I have been.
When I cut contact with the mother back in June 2017 I also clearly knew that at the same time I was cutting contact with the daughter. That was not an easy pill for me to swallow,
She's between a rock and a hard place - who the hell wants to speak up against their own parent? I see it with my own nieces. It's definitely tricky to stay involved in their lives without entangling with their mother."
Puzzledheart
Yes what I know of the grandfather is only through the filter of the mother & to a much lesser extent what the daughter has said about him. I know nothing of him directly.
Again the young daughter has only contacted me twice in over a year. They are relatively brief contacts. Its just lite talk I don't question her about what's going on. She seemed happy is all I can say. She said nothing wither time about any problems. She didn't even ask where I have been.
When I cut contact with the mother back in June 2017 I also clearly knew that at the same time I was cutting contact with the daughter. That was not an easy pill for me to swallow,
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Anvilhead
ok you got me I cant find fault with anything you said. It all just sucks & I don't know what to say.
"she contacted you because she knows you have bank and have thrown money at her problems before. she knew exactly how to get to you....using the kids phone.
the daughter can go to the grandfather's at any time - he does not live far away and he has CUSTODY. there is nothing for YOU to do.....she has a safety plan, a safe place to go. the mother doesn't CARE about the welfare of the child, she cares about herself. the kid is currency.
all this swirl of chaos was going on before CONTACT last thursday.
nothing has changed in five days.
except now you feel impelled to "help"
let's replay the tape...........about four years ago.........you should be getting an eery sense of deja vu right about now........poor down her luck mother of one ten year old, oh life has been soooo hard for her......all she needs is a little hand out, a little charity.....
and here we are - four years later and what has CHANGED in her life? has she improved?
climbed her way out?
got her sh1t together?
become a strong dedicated mother who will do anything to make sure her child has a safe, happy, healthy environment in which to thrive and grow???
yeah..........no.
but she knows where the cashcow is........even went so low as to use the kid's phone to contact you.....to ask for money. "
ok you got me I cant find fault with anything you said. It all just sucks & I don't know what to say.
"she contacted you because she knows you have bank and have thrown money at her problems before. she knew exactly how to get to you....using the kids phone.
the daughter can go to the grandfather's at any time - he does not live far away and he has CUSTODY. there is nothing for YOU to do.....she has a safety plan, a safe place to go. the mother doesn't CARE about the welfare of the child, she cares about herself. the kid is currency.
all this swirl of chaos was going on before CONTACT last thursday.
nothing has changed in five days.
except now you feel impelled to "help"
let's replay the tape...........about four years ago.........you should be getting an eery sense of deja vu right about now........poor down her luck mother of one ten year old, oh life has been soooo hard for her......all she needs is a little hand out, a little charity.....
and here we are - four years later and what has CHANGED in her life? has she improved?
climbed her way out?
got her sh1t together?
become a strong dedicated mother who will do anything to make sure her child has a safe, happy, healthy environment in which to thrive and grow???
yeah..........no.
but she knows where the cashcow is........even went so low as to use the kid's phone to contact you.....to ask for money. "
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tomsteve
The state is involved but its not that I am aware of to remove the daughter from the house hold. But the State has been involved since about December of 2016 & still is. The State knows whats going on & they don't remove the daughter. Unless they have & I haven't been told that. The state has been involved in her life on & off since she was a teen.
Yes she has kept digging that hole for the last year. Same friggin hole she always digs.
I know I cant save mom. That one I know. There are a lot of moving parts to this story.
Thanks
The state is involved but its not that I am aware of to remove the daughter from the house hold. But the State has been involved since about December of 2016 & still is. The State knows whats going on & they don't remove the daughter. Unless they have & I haven't been told that. The state has been involved in her life on & off since she was a teen.
Yes she has kept digging that hole for the last year. Same friggin hole she always digs.
I know I cant save mom. That one I know. There are a lot of moving parts to this story.
Thanks
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SBM
You made some good points
Lets say the young daughter is under stress I don't know but don't you think the kid would tell her pop there was bad sh*t going on? The girl never told me there are any problems. But wouldn't she tell pop?
The mother knows how much I love that daughter.
Yes these are very humbling lessons for me. Painful lessons. Yes its a continuing train wreck for sure.
Yes walk away again. When I left the first time back in 2017 things while messed up were not what they are now.
Thanks for caring.
You made some good points
Lets say the young daughter is under stress I don't know but don't you think the kid would tell her pop there was bad sh*t going on? The girl never told me there are any problems. But wouldn't she tell pop?
The mother knows how much I love that daughter.
Yes these are very humbling lessons for me. Painful lessons. Yes its a continuing train wreck for sure.
Yes walk away again. When I left the first time back in 2017 things while messed up were not what they are now.
Thanks for caring.
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GM
Wow thank you for the kind words. Ive made a lot of mistakes here. Not sure I deserve any kind words. Its an ugly situation & I deserve blame for my part. I should have left her where she was years ago.
I know I cant travel down this road again. I'm standing next to the proverbial fence but I'm not really on it but I am right next to it.
"You are one heck of a person with a huge heart. Our world is made better by people like you. I'm sure you are feeling emotionally exhausted with all of this, take care of you, friend. "
Wow thank you for the kind words. Ive made a lot of mistakes here. Not sure I deserve any kind words. Its an ugly situation & I deserve blame for my part. I should have left her where she was years ago.
I know I cant travel down this road again. I'm standing next to the proverbial fence but I'm not really on it but I am right next to it.
"You are one heck of a person with a huge heart. Our world is made better by people like you. I'm sure you are feeling emotionally exhausted with all of this, take care of you, friend. "
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ok,HL, back to something from a year ago- 6/24 to be precise:
where do you want to be in 6 months?
HOW do you want to BE in 6 months?
try answering that without goin back to that thread.
personally id like to read ya in a good place mentally,emotionally, and spiritually in 6 months.
where do you want to be in 6 months?
HOW do you want to BE in 6 months?
try answering that without goin back to that thread.
personally id like to read ya in a good place mentally,emotionally, and spiritually in 6 months.
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atalose
Thanks for coming back from being away & catching up. I read carefully everything you wrote. I have tremendous respect for you. I don't find fault with anything you said. I obviously have a lot to think about & tough decisions. I guess there aren't any decisions for me to make because I made them in 2017. I just have to re-commit to those decisions.
This is about as real as it gets & it just sucks. My story with her has never had a good news part to it. Mind blowing to think where when & how it really all ends.
Thank you atalose. Ill be ok.
Thanks for coming back from being away & catching up. I read carefully everything you wrote. I have tremendous respect for you. I don't find fault with anything you said. I obviously have a lot to think about & tough decisions. I guess there aren't any decisions for me to make because I made them in 2017. I just have to re-commit to those decisions.
This is about as real as it gets & it just sucks. My story with her has never had a good news part to it. Mind blowing to think where when & how it really all ends.
Thank you atalose. Ill be ok.
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Hi Aeryn
My story is a love story. It started with the mother & I. It ends with the mother & I. The daughter only came into the picture months after the relationship began. The daughter also became part of the love story. Shes a great kid.
The focus was between the mother & myself. I helped the daughter directly but the daughter was not the focus.
I did read what you wrote & I do understand your message.
I know what I have to do.
Thanks
My story is a love story. It started with the mother & I. It ends with the mother & I. The daughter only came into the picture months after the relationship began. The daughter also became part of the love story. Shes a great kid.
The focus was between the mother & myself. I helped the daughter directly but the daughter was not the focus.
I did read what you wrote & I do understand your message.
I know what I have to do.
Thanks
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tomsteve
Thank you for saying "personally id like to read ya in a good place mentally,emotionally, and spiritually in 6 months. "
A year ago I couldn't imagine 6 months out. However today I can & know I will be ok. That fact alone is a huge difference.
Thanks
Thank you for saying "personally id like to read ya in a good place mentally,emotionally, and spiritually in 6 months. "
A year ago I couldn't imagine 6 months out. However today I can & know I will be ok. That fact alone is a huge difference.
Thanks
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It will be easier this time HL. It will still suck, but you are much better equipped this time. You have tools you didn't used to have and friends here that want to support you in every way we can.
*Big Hug*
*Big Hug*
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SBM
Thank you for those kind words. Thank you for caring enough to write me & try to help me.
I know I am not consistent with myself concerning her. I also know I have never been consistent with her. That fact has added fuel to the fire with her.
I spoke to her a bit yesterday. Apparently, a major legal problem is going to come to a head on Friday. It sounds worse than what I originally knew. So the story is changing a bit for the worse. I didn't ask questions or offer help
I know this is all her problems & not mine.
I am going to do some thinking on this today. As atalose said I have to get my mind back to thinking realistically based on facts & not fantasy. I do know the facts.
Thanks to everyone for your concern. Thanks for your most helpful & meaningful words. I'm not good at dealing with her. But I think you all know that by now.
Thank you for those kind words. Thank you for caring enough to write me & try to help me.
I know I am not consistent with myself concerning her. I also know I have never been consistent with her. That fact has added fuel to the fire with her.
I spoke to her a bit yesterday. Apparently, a major legal problem is going to come to a head on Friday. It sounds worse than what I originally knew. So the story is changing a bit for the worse. I didn't ask questions or offer help
I know this is all her problems & not mine.
I am going to do some thinking on this today. As atalose said I have to get my mind back to thinking realistically based on facts & not fantasy. I do know the facts.
Thanks to everyone for your concern. Thanks for your most helpful & meaningful words. I'm not good at dealing with her. But I think you all know that by now.
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I spoke to her a bit yesterday. Apparently, a major legal problem is going to come to a head on Friday. It sounds worse than what I originally knew. So the story is changing a bit for the worse. I didn't ask questions or offer help
Could the story be changing because you didn’t jump on her sympathy train right away and offer to bail her out? My ex used to make up wild stories in order to get money but once I stopped buying into them he began to try and sell different ones.
I am guessing that if you stick to your boundaries of not providing financial aid, the worms going to turn and turn nasty. And the last place you want to be is on the receiving end of a desperate addict in self crisis mode. OR she will move on to the next resource she thinks might provide what she needs.
Could the story be changing because you didn’t jump on her sympathy train right away and offer to bail her out? My ex used to make up wild stories in order to get money but once I stopped buying into them he began to try and sell different ones.
I am guessing that if you stick to your boundaries of not providing financial aid, the worms going to turn and turn nasty. And the last place you want to be is on the receiving end of a desperate addict in self crisis mode. OR she will move on to the next resource she thinks might provide what she needs.
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Ahhh yes. You surely knew there was a manipulative reason for her to call. Legal problems that I am sure she hopes you will step in for her on. Don't do it.
I say this with kindness b/c I know it's hurtful. It's time to walk away.
I say this with kindness b/c I know it's hurtful. It's time to walk away.
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Atalose. &. Hopeful
Problems with her. We’re always real problems. She offers up documentation with out asking. & will always supply whatever. I ask for
She already showed me documentation concerning. Friday. She also knows. It’s easy for me to verify county court activity
She has never once made up a story. To manipulate me. She never overstated a problem Either
Real. Problems with her are non stop. So there is no need for her to make something up
Thanks
Problems with her. We’re always real problems. She offers up documentation with out asking. & will always supply whatever. I ask for
She already showed me documentation concerning. Friday. She also knows. It’s easy for me to verify county court activity
She has never once made up a story. To manipulate me. She never overstated a problem Either
Real. Problems with her are non stop. So there is no need for her to make something up
Thanks
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Oh I am sorry you misunderstood. I don't mean she is lying about Friday. Simply that her phone call timing is quite convenient seeing that she has a court trial coming up. That is what I meant about being manipulative.
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Based on things you have shared I have no doubt she has troubles – big troubles but not troubles she didn’t know about 3 weeks ago or 2 weeks ago, no she waits until 1 week before court to hit you up after a whole year of no contact. Then you expend your time to meet her and read about her troubles. You don’t offer to help so her next conversation with you is worse then what you originally knew. That is what I was getting at with her pushing your sympathy button.
I have no doubt her problems are real but they are not your problems they are her problem to own, fix and take care of. And as you said, they are non stop.
I think there is a very simple solution to this, tell her no, tell her you are not going to help her that you can’t help her – sit back and see watch what happens.
I have no doubt her problems are real but they are not your problems they are her problem to own, fix and take care of. And as you said, they are non stop.
I think there is a very simple solution to this, tell her no, tell her you are not going to help her that you can’t help her – sit back and see watch what happens.
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