BlueChair

Major group reply to different things mentioned, have been thinking about them.

I do feel guilty but I think the sober advisor from work COULD be a positive thing for him. I know I shouldn’t feel guilty over my feelings, hard seeing him feeling like its a babysitter but I don’t think thats their intent. They could have just said do drug testing and that’s it but they were shocked he isnt doing more outpatient and I think they are trying to offer help and its like the big thing companies do here now.

My husband has lots of emotions, and is thankful to everyone at work most of who are in our inner circle of friends. They saved his life going out and searching for him and have been there for both of us all these months. He is so happy to be going back to work, the work part of it he loves but I mean I don’t think it would be easy for most people to walk back in after having made a mess there, having to be bailed out by them, knowing everyone knows you were binging on drugs, knowing you were away getting help for months, you cheated on your wife with someone who worked there and she is now gone, rumors that float around, odd looks, and feeling like your credibility in the area of his life your career with people even outside who may have heard is damn scary and hurts.

He just isnt handling anything stressful very good right now. I mean last week I think there was 3 times he got upset because he couldn’t find the lid for the water bottle. A lid for a waterbottle. And he was searching the kitchen for it, and once we retraced his steps and found it under the newspaper he had been reading. We talked about why he was worried about the lid, its only water and a lid, and he doesn’t know. I don’t even know how he is going to stay focused at his work and its scary for both of us.

I know addiction damages different parts of a person, and when drugs cause you to think irrationally and you do all kinds of awful things then it makes you question all you thought you were. But that is far removed from addiction being a spiritual disease that’s all Im saying.

I don’t know for sure that I want to try celebrate recovery, I don’t know enough about it and I don’t like to get involved with things unless I understand what there about. I read through the website and the steps they mention and it seems innocent enough. I am reading the Purpose Driven Life right now, and I have the first step book and the devotional but I have only looked at the devotional so far. My mom never heard of it and said she would look at it also and let me know what she thought but she said why do you need to do anything like that in the first place? Answer well Ive heard people talk about it and they say it helped them. What I think is weird is people are always being told on this site to go to some kind of meeting but people never question it, they are like ok if that is the answer even though I have no idea what it is I will go, or they just say that to get people to stop saying that I don’t know. But Im not like that I have to understand. I hope no one takes offense to that but its how I am. I may call the lady back I talked to and ask her some more questions. I haven’t talked to him about it because like I said I think he has too much going on right at this moment and I don’t think its fair, but if he is interested in doing it with me then I would want to wait and start with him. If not then I don’t know maybe it wouldn’t be good to have people doing two separate type of things. Some of these programs are supposed to be for you but they have an awful lot of opinions about them and it most of its nothing that I was ever told by the counselor and doctors I have been working with all these months so it leaves me with questions.

BlueChair

Saturday night we went out with our friends, someone he works with and his wife. We went out to eat and there was that awkward moment where it was like do we order a bottle of wine for the table or what do we do? The friends were going to have soda I mean trying to not bring alcohol into dinner. But he was like we can have wine with dinner, promise I wont down the whole bottle and start snorting coke from the table. I told him it wasn’t funny. He had two glasses with dinner and was fine. I sipped one all night and didn’t finish it. We had a good time with our friends first time going out in a long time. Then we got home and the evening seemed to relax him and he was in the mood. I don’t know why but I started having all these feelings like this isnt mostly about us, its more about stress relief and then I started thinking about how he cheated and was using the women he was with and it left me with this feeling hadn’t felt the whole time we were away and together, then I started seeing her stupid face. He held me all night but the next morning I was crying in his arms saying we didn’t finish the homework from our family session. I really don’t know what is wrong with me I just had this creepy feeling he was dealing with his feelings by drinking and sex. I know sometimes thats ok, but for him right now I don’t think its ok. Is he really embarrassed and annoyed he has to meet with this sober advisor for work, or is it because he doesn’t want to be monitored so close by someone who may relate to him because he still wants to use something instead of facing his emotions ? If he is doing that what does it mean for me ? I dont know. Saturday night ended up being the only night I slept, and I feel very emotional when I don’t sleep

hopeful4

BC...I am going on a limb and am going to say I don't think your husband is being very considerate to those around him at all the opportunity he is being given. As I said before, he should have continued outpatient out of respect for his job, because they wanted him to. Now they said ok, we will offer you this help. He, like a child, says it's stupid. He drinks at dinner knowing full well it is going to cause you anxiety...and it did. Most likely just triggered a whole bunch of other feelings for you. Where are you in all of this? Where is BC? When do your feelings become important?

I encourage CR because you are obviously codependent. I don't say that harshly or with malice. You need some sort of tools in your life to help you realize this is not all about him and his recovery. It is also about you, your recovery, and getting you to bring the focus back on YOU. You seem to think CR is a big committment. Try it one time, if it is not for you, don't go back. For me it does not matter where the support is coming from, but you clearly need support for you separate from him. You want to see this as a "we" thing, and it is to some extent. However, you have some healing to do for "you."

He is going to have to be a big boy. He is going to have to get over these fears, get his anger and anxiety in check and move on with life. There is no choice in this. You coddling him won't help. His employers see that, they refuse to also. He is damn lucky to have a job right now, and a wife. He should be counting his blessings, not whining.

I am sorry if this sounds harsh as I do not mean for it to. You are struggling and trying to do so much, and you have to come to terms that you cannot do this for him, he has to do it himself.

God Bless BC. I send you peace and strength.

HumbleNumb

Can I just interject something... and I want to say up front and for the record "JUST BASED ON MY OWN EXPERIENCE" here...

My AH is a fun loving guy... truly. He's always got something comical to add or say in just about ANY situation... So when I read about your husband's comments at dinner regarding the wine... D-A-N-G-E-R...

He has a problem... he's minimizing it with jokes (even at his own expense) - sorry... I've been there and done that... and what happened after he made himself the butt of the joke? He drank alcohol... and he relaxed, and it put him in "the mood"... oh my!
all the while, you're feeling like you're sitting on pins and needles... using is using.

My experience has been that every time I see my AH joking around about drinking or "just go to the doctor and get some pain pills"... all followed by "BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! You KNOW I'm just joking"... it ended up being a red flag for things to come.

I have read through your thread... the work thing, his anxiety thing... all of it. I see a pattern emerging and he's trying to convince himself that if he can force things back to "normal", then he can get past all this extra "attention" and get himself back to doing what he wants to do... My AH will use every excuse known to man to justify his actions, choices, denial... I've seen it happen to so many others too...
Have you ever heard this one: "Hey, its no big deal?" OR "What's the big deal?" OR, "At least I'm not doing coke"...
My AH has at times convinced himself that he's a "good husband" because he comes home after work every night... REALLY? Isn't that what any husband is supposed to do? What are the other options for husbands?... I know its all an attempt to make himself feel better about the condition of his heart, and the deception he must maintain to keep up with his addiction... Just like the flattery he pours out on me.

Hey, he's a good guy with a bad problem... and he's one of thousands upon thousands of others... some have not had the opportunity to clean up their act like your beloved... some have been tossed out on their ears...
You're a beautiful person BC... and you only want what's best... but the cunning, deceptive addict can pervert that to serve his own purpose... Get some help for YOU... CR is a good, safe place... where you can just let others love on you until you can really love yourself again...
I hope he will go with you, but he may not... please don't let your own sanity suffer any longer...

Hawkeye13

Using is using. He drank, he made excuses for it, but he choose to do it knowing how it would make you feel.

I'd do something about this and soon.

You deserve some consideration too after all the crap he has put you through.
He sounds pretty selfish and spoiled--everyone is bending over backwards for him
and it seems to me that he feels he is entitled to that and more. Watch out.

Sara21

Hi BC,

I think the best way for you to understand CR, and to see if it's a good fit for you, is to go a few times. I went to the one in my area for a few months and found it to be an uplifting experience. There were times when I didn't participate, just listened and that's ok. There is no long term commitment and you can go as often, or as little, as you like. I haven't gone in a few years, but they provided some valuable tools at a time when I needed them.
It's not for everyone, and it may not be a good fit for you, but you won't know unless you actually go there and see it for yourself. You have nothing to lose by going. You might get something out of it, or you may cross it off your list and move on to something else. Whatever you decide to do, I hope you continue to find some peace and healing in your journey.

Hugs

Hawkeye13

I realized my last post sounds pretty grumpy.
I don't mean to pick on your husband at all.
I know you love him and are trying to do what is best.

I also wish both of you peace and healing.
The road is hard for addict and addict's family

BlueChair

I wanted to say we have talked about his drinking with the doctors before he came home he was open about he doesnt feel he has a problem drinking, and I agree Ive never seen one, but the doctors suggested he stop for a while but he says he thinks its ok to drink socially when its not emotional drinking. I told him I respect his choice and Im ok with it (because it is his choice and I dont feel like I have a problem trying to control him myself) but if I see a problem then I will tell him and I want to discuss it in our family session. I wasnt upset he drank the other night at first only about the comment he made because it wasnt funny to me. It was later on I had those feelings and realized all week that had been the only time he was relaxed drinking and sex. It may very well be ME who is gone mad and Im all wrong about it. I am not worked through the affair stuff yet. Ive made progress but I think its going to take more time now we are home and there are reminders.

((Humblenumb)) I started crying at work reading what you wrote because I understand what your saying and I needed to hear it spelled out like that.

He is spoiled acting sometimes, can be demanding, intimidating, doesnt like to be wrong, wants to do everything on his own, doesnt like to make mistakes, or be told what to do. he is other things that round it all out.

Kindeyes

Quite honestly....I have no skin in this game and either does anyone else on here......quite simply......I don't care if anyone gets help for themselves or not. I really don't. I gain nothing if they do. I lose nothing if they don't.

But the thought process you've described is like saying.......I don't want to go to college to become a doctor because I don't understand it. I have to understand the entire thought process, procedures, diagnostics, do self study and get my self declared degree before I can even THINK of going to university.

I understand what you are saying. I was just like you. I thought I had to know it all before investing myself. I was quite the contrarian. I'm smart. I run a successful business. I have a high IQ. But all of that didn't mean diddly for me when it came to addiction.

I'm not suggesting that you stop thinking for yourself. I'm not suggesting that you stop asking questions. I am simply saying.......

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation. —Herbert Spencer

.....stated by someone far smarter than I could ever hope to be.

Take care of you.

gentle hugs
ke

hopeful4

Great post KindEyes! I too agree. In the grand scheme of things, if BC (or anyone else) go and seek support it it up to them. Never ever stop educating yourself. Never stop questioning things. However...to suffer alone with this stuff when there are resources that can help you is sad to me.

I have a high IQ. I have a college degree. I ask questions, I offer support. I have an addict in my life that was making me question if I was the crazy one, just like I read on here...OVER AND OVER AND OVER. BS! I am not crazy. I have been spot on with my AH each time. I have just learned he is not my life. I am not his. He has to manage who he is and his own choices, I cannot control what he will or will not do. I CAN control me and my choices, but yes, I needed help to learn how to do that. I was so emmeshed in him that I could not see with my own eyes I needed help....I thought I was the one going crazy.

I don't tolerate that for one second any longer. When my gut tells me something is wrong, it is wrong. If I need to talk about it, I need to talk about it. Get it here....my needs are just as important. I stuffed those needs and fears down for a long time. No more, I put them first as if I am not healthy I cannot help anyone around me. I cannot be steady for my children or myself if I am not in a positive frame of mind and eaten up with anxiety all the time.

Now I hear BC thinking she is going mad because her gut is screaming that someting is wrong. My friend...when that happens it is because something is truly amiss. It is now up to you to figure out what that is. If you can do so without face to face support (for you, not him) hats off to you. If not, find some sort of support. It's not a life committment or something to be ashamed of. Try something out, if you don't like it try something else.

Good Luck BC. I say these things because I care for you and am so sorry to hear you hurting.

BlueChair

I feel like this is meant as some sort of mind game and I find it insulting and a HUGE TURNOFF in making me want to explore more.

Kindeyes

The statement was to give you food for thought because I think that you're probably a pretty darn smart lady caught in a difficult situation.....it was not stated to insult you or otherwise play mind games.

Like I said.....I have no skin in this game. If anyone (including me) causes you intestinal discomfort, there is an ignore feature that works nicely.

gentle hugs
ke

KeepinItReal

Bc - time takes time. There is no over night cure.

Also, your allowed to be angry. Feeling everything and not doing it alone is why people push support. Sometimes friends and family CANT understand. The fear.

You can anonymously speak to others in a safe loving enviornment. Sometimes our significant others don't want US getting support. I talk to strangers. Lol. Surprisingly .... many people are open and have their own stories. We are all fighting a battle.

allforcnm

Blue,

My opinion is that you are both stressed out from coming back from your trip and dealing with life in all its glory + reminders of everything that happened. Since your already in marriage counseling together, I think I would begin going to individual therapy again by yourself. That is what I used when my husband was in early recovery. It provided a non-emotional person to talk to, I could explore my feelings in a safe environment where there was no judgment, I had face to face support, and someone that could also teach me about addiction and provide me with tools to handle my own emotions.

You are doing a great job Blue; just slow down a little and don't panic. I think you already know you need college, now just take your time and pick out which college you want to attend, and what you want your major to be. Those are choices which must be unique to you, and they are important.

As far as dealing with the spiritual component of addiction and recovery; my husband I just used church. We focused on our own home church and became involved in what they had to offer. Our church held weekly meetings for both women and men, and we talked about all kinds of issues we faced, and found strength through each other and the written word. My husband went to the mens group and did the same thing. On Sundays we went to a class together for couples, and then attended regular church services. Our pastor was always available for private discussions or counseling. The beginning of the year is usually a great time to check out what your church might have to offer.

I am also sending you a p.message.

hopeful4

O my gosh..bravo!! This is a great post, and so correct. Explore your options and pick one! I dont mean to push anyone, ever. Its just amazing these resources are there, they are worth trying to see if they benefit you. If not move on.

Hugs BC. You knew this would not be a cakewalk, but you are realizing things as they come to surface. Some will be good, others not so much. Just deal with them one at a time calmly and before you know it you will be past the junk and working on a new outlook for you. Let yourself go through these feelings just dont let them control you. You can do this, you are kind and strong with a great foundation of knowledge to grow from.









You are doing a great job Blue; just slow down a little and don't panic. I think you already know you need college, now just take your time and pick out which college you want to attend, and what you want your major )[/QUOTE]

AnvilheadII

both you and your husband seem pretty resistant to trying anything that has been SUGGESTED by professionals in the field or those who have been dealing with addiction for a long time. HE refuses to do more outpatient, even tho it has been strongly urged that he do so. HE continues to drink even tho is has been strongly urged that he NOT do so.

you say alanon isn't for you. and that you don't know enough about CR beforehand, so why go?

they say you can't graft new ideas on a closed mind. neither of you seem very willing to think outside the box, or try new things to see if you MIGHT benefit from it. that keeps your world small and your options limited......

incitingsilence

What a great distraction all of this can be…

Him, his feelings, your feelings pertaining to him and any treatment of him, the responses here, the type of program that may help you … and the may is important because no program just works or is even needed, it is the person’s willingness to do anything and everything that writes success stories. This is an inside job be it for you or him.

Are you willing to do anything possible to give yourself the best chance at a wonderful life?
Is he showing that he is?

Now this…

And then add in the drinking and the joke making about the drinking. Still all them red flags a flying

When you wrote of the damage he did in just 3 months, did it ever occur to you to think, that maybe this is just what you know of … every occur to you to think wow who is this man?

Lets talk years … It is over ten since heroin walked in the door and made itself prominently know. I choose to stay because heroin in my head just wasn’t a good enough reason to leave. Hell I couldn’t find a reason for a long time either way to do anything. That in itself was a great distraction, let alone every opinion in the world tossed at me. So as I leave more for you to think about as an observation of what you have written it is for you to learn, and be able to protect yourself, nothing more.

Let me make it simple.

First you have to heal from this. If you don’t take the time to do that, then nothing else will be ok. And this isn't about saving anything but YOU. The work is not optional, it is a must. So if you are going to give him this chance you have to work out the fact that he used, that he cheated. You will even have to forgive him, although that isn’t for him, but yourself and your own physical, mental and spiritual health. And forgetting isn’t optional either. You need to take the lessons learned and the new ones to come and use them to make sure you have the best life possible.

You also have to understand that just because he is an addict that doesn’t mean he gets special treatment, needs shielding from life, it doesn’t require you walking on eggshells, he doesn’t need you to make things easy, help throw pity parties or even engage with him when he is having one and he doesn’t need to have any home grown clockwork orange positive reinforcement. He really needs to be left to himself, and I mean that. You can listen, say uh huh … but honestly he has to find a way to work it all out. And you must remember that you can’t understand what is going on in his head. Hell he might not even.

Understand that HE is who He is … And his life is on a path he designed and will continue to be. It might suck, but he was all there making choices that got him where he is today. And is making choices today to take him into the tomorrows to come. Did I mention red flags, of course I did. Maybe you are to wrapped up in him and can’t see them?

And no his work isn’t doing him any favors. And you may not be either if you are engaging in conversations with him about them begin unfair about anyone being unfair in how they treat him. And the obvious this isn’t yours to begin with anyway.

He is a grown, capable man and you don’t do him any good by seeing him as anything but that. He isn’t helpless. You can’t save him and never could. You can keep him sick, and that will be a direct result of not taking the time to work on you.

Understand that any confusion, any turmoil you feel, any inability to make a decision is on you and a direct reflection of your own personal health physically, mentally, and spiritually. I know you have issues with seeing addiction as something spiritual, maybe you have to have been bankrupt in that area to understand how it is and how your mental and physical health are so tied to it. This happens on both sides, even to those who watch.

Back to the distraction…
All that reading, all that seeking out information. We all have done that, it will work till it doesn’t and then the real work will have to be done. You can jump in at any time. Might want to ask why you haven’t … and no you haven’t, nothing really has changed. You show a glimpse here and there of you, but mostly you share what he is doing, how he is treated, treating, acting…

Oh maybe this as well. Recovery has nothing to do with just not using. Recovery isn’t a NOW thing, it is a process of learning and changing within. It takes time and it sucks from every angle. It is painful at times, confusing at times, hurts like hell … but it is a necessary journey on every side. Just not using means nothing at all, if you are still displaying behaviors that aren’t healthy. Kinda shows why the drug is just a symptom of the disease. Taken that a bit a further and well you can’t blame the drugs either for the choices you made. Guess what, those watching can’t blame either, the drug, the addict for what they became.

What will you become in all of this?

hopeful4

BC....I responded, did you get it? Sorry to post on this thread but my computer is acting funny and I want to make sure.

Have a great day BC!

Twofish

Hi BC,
Just wanted to add that I am here to support you or just to talk.
I think we both are stuck in the wrong lane in the highway called addiction.
It is confusing and painful, especially if you get conflicting advice and recommendations.
Sometimes, at least with me, all I want to hear is "hi, how ya doing? Or It's going to be ok, I've been there, done that, don't throw in the towel, especially if you feel like you're at a dead end" how about "I care about you AND your husband" Simple words sometimes can have enormous effects. Breathe. Sending you hugs that you must need by now. TF

BlueChair

I have done EVERYTHING suggested by the professionals we are working with, and I take in all the suggestions from those people I respect who have been dealing with addiction and then I evaluate it, and go from there. The PROFESSIONALS told me to start counseling and I did. I went for three months and only stopped when we left for our vacation. I decided to start it again and have a whole series of appointments set up starting next week. Also suggested by the PROFESSIONALS was that I do family counseling with my husband, and we have done that every week for three months. Only stopping while we were away on vacation, and starting up the same week we came home. NONE of the PROFESSIONALS told me to do anything else and this specifically included joining any type of program 12 step or other NONE

So this was me taking in what I see from people here on this forum only, and saying I never heard of Celebrate Recovery but the people who are posting here and are using it I like much of what they say, their attitudes, how they treat people and talk about their family members, and it might be something I would like to try. That is thinking outside the box and keeping my mind open. So I read your post again and I wonder who is it really that has a closed mind, and is stuck in their box? Who is it that has a tiny world and cant see there is much more out there?

When your working with PROFESSIONAL doctors they work WITH YOU. They never say I am suggesting this and if you don’t do it then your going to fail. They say to my husband alright you have been in inpatient for three months, outpatient for one month and you want to go on vacation with your wife. I think that could be good for you but when you come back I suggest you return to outpatient because it will give you a lot of support while your transitioning back to work and your responsibilities. My husband says I don’t like outpatient and I don’t think its helping me much what else do you suggest? And the Professional says then I suggest you keep up with counseling sessions, and the family sessions. I would like to see you as much as possible so you have this outlet and support. My husband says once a week for each, the doctor says twice with me would be better. My husband says it’s a two hour commute around my work schedule lets try once a week with you and if I need more can you fit me i? and the doctor says yes. THAT’S HOW IT WORKS. They work with you and let you make your own choices, your own mistakes, and take responsibility.

The drinking, the doctor says it would be best if you don’t and he explains this big long medical reason why, and my husband comes back after thinking about all of it and says I understand what your saying but I have never had a problem drinking, I want to see if I can control my drinking before I make a decision to give it up. The doctor says it could lead you to a relapse and goes over all the scary things again, my husband says I understand. We talk about it together in our family session many times and I finally understand he needs to make the decision for himself, my concerns are all based on fear, and I promise to hold him accountable if I see any signs he is abusing alcohol or self medicating because the doctor says WE ARE A TEAM and this is what Im supposed to do.

Does this mean I don’t wish he would have stayed in outpatient where I could have known he was safe and protected all day long? No I wish he would have because I love him and want him safe. Do I wish he would stop drinking? Yes because I hear all the scary things the doctor said and I think why take any chance one more binge may kill you and it scares me to think of life without you. But those are my problems not his and I don’t tell him this. I say I respect your choices, and Im here for you.

And then maybe I come here and share my fears, anxious moments, or complain about his attitude when Im angry or tired, knowing its safe here with all of you. Even that is thinking outside the box because I have never used a chat forum site before.

Please try to remember Im not you or anyone else, Im me